Final Fantasy needs to go back to how it was

dan290786

dan290786

Dan290786
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I know this will have been discussed before but are there any fans out there who feel the same as i do on how final fantasy is nowadays? After FFIX (FFX i give the benefit of the doubt), the FF games have just not had that final fantasy feeling.

I really want Square to bring back the classic overworld, traditional battle system and random encountered battles and am i the only one who actually preferred the games without voice actors? I loved the old style of just text during the game and how you were able to rename your characters to who you wanted etc.

It's very sad for me, i do love final fantasy games but after IX it just wasnt as good as it used to be.

What are your thoughts? Think theres any chance Square will go back to this style one day?
 
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I don't think they'll go back to the old style as they're developing new ones, and I have every faith that the battle system in FFXIII will be fantastic and what FFXII was supposed to be, but ultimately failed, and since FFXIII Versus is following the footsteps of the Kingdom Hearts battle system, that'll be fantastic. I don't think you're going to get random encounters anymore as that doesn't seem to be the way SE are working nowadays. It doesn't seem as bad though if you take out FFXI, which isn't the main series >.>
 
Bah.
What you're experiencing is called "Golden Years Syndrome". You see, the world changes. And while there are certain aspects of things that need to remain the same (lest ye lose thine soul), there are certain things that MUST change, lest ye stagnate and die.
You feel sentimental about the way things were, and that's understandable, as the way things were was pretty dang great. But how long would anyone continue playing the Final Fantasy games if they didn't progress with the times? Eventually, the very good thing you once loved would become very stale, and make you bitter (like me!) towards it.
No voiceovers? It makes no sense in a world where such a thing is readily available and very standard.
To my knowledge, the on-screen text remains.
You can't rename your character now, because then the voice-overs would flow. Then you'd curse the whole game as crap because the voice-overs are just annoying.
The random battles are gone, because the newfangled processors they use now are capable of keeping track of dozens (ifn't hundreds) of beasties at a time. So, random battles don't make much sense either.
The gameplay has been evolving since the first game. Turn-based was replaced by Active Time. Active Time is evolving into whatever the heck showed up in the last couple of games. What your experiencing is an expression of the freedom of form that the new technology offers, and it will smooth out and be great. But it's always going to evolve, because, like I said, you don't really want to feel like you've played this new game a dozen times before. Grow or die, as my dear mum told a bitteryoungman once upon a time.
If you prefer the old games, that's your prerogative. Not everybody can be pleased by growth. It's nature. In nature's terms, you're becoming the weak of the herd that can't keep up. (Sorry you had to learn this way.) I don't mean that in a disrespectful way; it just means that you don't like the way things are going, so unfortunately that means your kind of games aren't going to be a part of the mainstream anymore. I can relate.
 
dan290786 said:
I know this will have been disgusted before but are there any fans out there who feel the same as i do on how final fantasy is nowadays? After FFIX (FFX i give the benefit of the doubt), the FF games have just not had that final fantasy feeling.

I really want Square to bring back the classic overworld, traditional battle system and random encountered battles and am i the only one who actually preferred the games without voice actors? I loved the old style of just text during the game and how you were able to rename your characters to who you wanted etc.

It's very sad for me, i do love final fantasy games but after IX it just wasnt as good as it used to be.

What are your thoughts? Think theres any chance Square will go back to this style one day?
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I agree with a lot of what you said, though I do like my voice acting... I don't want Square to revert 110% and make a game like it was 1997 all over again, but I do think that they could easily have modernized some of the elements that used to define Final Fantasy, instead of replacing them. If they actually put some work and thought into it, I am sure that they could come up with a turnbased combat system worthy of this day and age. I also miss a proper world map in my Final Fantasy games these days, and for Chrom's sake, bring back Yoshitaka Amano! I can't stress than one enough. I'm getting sick and tired of Nomura's rehashed skanky designs. Final Fantasy used to bring us a new universe with every installment. Since Final Fantasy X though, they have all looked a bit too similar...

But yeah Final Fantasy IX was the last one that was truly great. The series has gone a astray since Sakaguchi jumped ship, and I doubt it'll ever fully recover. Unless Sakaguchi-san makes a return of course, but I don't see that happening any time soon :P
 
I understand that if things didnt change it would get stale but in my opinion if each FF game had new features but kept things traditionally like the battle system, overworld etc things would always be great.

For me sadly it just doesnt feel like Final Fantasy anymore.
 
dan290786 said:
I understand that if things didnt change it would get stale but in my opinion if each FF game had new features but kept things traditionally like the battle system, overworld etc things would always be great.

For me sadly it just doesnt feel like Final Fantasy anymore.
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I agree with you that there are some things missing that should be there, and some themes they've tried to stick with feel a bit forced (moogles have mostly felt out of place since IX.)

But buck up, whippersnapper! Or you'll miss out on some cool stuff, just cuz it ain't the old stuff.
 
I think the main themes of final fantasy still remain, saving the world, discovery of self through helping others etc.

Maybe certain aspects have been mordenised to make the game better/quicker, like the battle systems which are no longer random, which has to be the future of gaming. It makes it more realistic. You can't be walking around a all of a sudden enemies bare down on you, you'd see 'em coming!

I think the old games a still amazing don't get me wrong, but that's what makes playing them even more special. If they just rehashed everything as bitteroldman says, it would grow stale and get tired very soon!
 
In my honest opinion no...there is no denying that the classics are awesome but to continue to use the same gameplay and systems will only make the sequels feel repetitive and over all less satisfying to the player.
 
As much as I love the classical system and everything, I don't think it's such a good idea using it again. Let Square Enix experiment a little with some new ideas and see which ones attract the fans most. I'm sure a lot of people love the classic style, but it will end up getting boring in the long run if that's all they use. And besides, I don't think Square Enix will break all the FF traditions. They may keep some just to give the player a good sense of nostalgia.
 
I agree with bitteroldman to a certain extent. One of the best things about being a gamer today is how rapidly technology and games change and because of this all games will inevitably go through huge overhauls and dump things that the game doesn't necessarily benefit from and improve on things they will. Although, recent FF games stories and characters haven't been anywhere near as good or memorable as the old games in my opinion. Vann in FFXII was terrible, and the rest of the characters weren't particularly that interesting either. Not compared to FFVII's Tifa, Barret, and Cloud or FFVIII's Squall or badass Seifer. The games are undoubtedly becoming better to play but in my opinion they're progressively losing their charm. And it's sad to see. FFX was the last good FF I can remember playing, but even that was weak-gravy compared to some of the older games, and the story was ridiculous. The main protagonist – Tidus, has no choice but to kill his dad who just happens to be a giant whale. Seriously? If this is the best Square Enix can come up with these days then they may as well just employ the Chuckle Brothers to write their next script for them. FFX 2, while enjoyable, lacked any character depth, or story, and disappointingly, FFIX wasn't even released outside of the US on the PS2. Another thing that bugs me is the lack of mini-games in the recent games. What did FFXII have? Monster hunting. That was fun for the first ten minutes until I realised that I was going to be battling against monsters the entire game. This may sound like a bit of a rant, but it's just disappointing to see one of my favourite franchises lose so much of its charm. FFVII was a master-class in narrative and pacing, with a story that people still love today. In conclusion, Square need to start focusing more on FF's story and developing the characters, instead of focusing on always reinventing the gameplay.
 
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This is like the 6th thread I've seen that stated the exact same thing. Honestly you won't see old retro stuff anymore. You might have some of the same themes, but for SE to actually make sales they have to start branching away from the norm.

A good bit of people are fed up with the franchise, because their originality has gone downstream thanks to FFXII. The only thing unique about the game was quickenings, gambits, and the battle system, but honestly the battle system was a lot like FFXI (mmo) just integrated and made to look pretty for FFXII.

To be honest what I want is a hard Final Fantasy. I don't want it to be unbarably hard, but seriously I want to be tried and tested in this game. I miss the older final fantasy era that actually made you think. I also want a pretty out there story line. There is only so many times a boy/man can protect a queen/goddess/summoner/esper. There needs to be something that compells people to actually get rehooked to the franchise itself. I just don't think they will take the risk though, because after all Square Enix is like any other major company, they want the most bang for their buck.

Hopefully though with FFXIII on the horizon we will see some new colors.. but for now all we can do is hope.
 
Well, Final Fantasy was always a game that brought in a new dynamic to the gameplay or a new storyline idea all together. I've accepted the fact that the older FF style will never come back. I'm a big fan of FFVIII with the whole junction system and such and I had a tough time adjusting to other FF's that didn't have them (which would be all of them considering the juction system is unique to VIII). So now I welcome new changes to FF's.

I think the changes are what makes Final Fantasy so popular to begin with. New storyline, battle system, characters and many other innovations make 1 FF unique to every other. It took 10 FF's until the decided to make a sequel. I'll just be happy that I'll have a new one to work on that I don't know anything about. As much as I love the junction system and the CTB battle of FFX, I've made my peace with never seeing them again and am willing to accept whatever the battle system has to throw at us now.
 
Shu said:
To be honest what I want is a hard Final Fantasy. I don't want it to be unbarably hard, but seriously I want to be tried and tested in this game. I miss the older final fantasy era that actually made you think. I also want a pretty out there story line.
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I know what you mean, youngster. I think VII, VIII, and IX had some great innovations that SE ought to look into; they began to give you some action OUTSIDE of the battle screen. I'd like to see the designers look into the other brands of action that exist; running, jumping, climbing, picking locks, puzzle solving, firefights, fistfights, etc. These are some of the deepest games on the market; I think the gameplay should reflect that.

As far as storylines go, I agree that what we see now is inferior to what was before. XII was beautifully written--poetic, even--but the story was very impersonal, instead of immersive. My first Final Fantasy was IV, with a story and twists that seemed like they came from a book. In some ways, there hasn't been another like it (characters died and naturally evolved away from the group. There wasn't unused characters in your lineup, and new faces showed up throughout. You ended fighting alongside former enemies, and against former friends, only to find those roles again reversed. It was truly an epic story.) Nowadays, SE seems very focused on making things with a great surface instead of giving a great substance to them. However, I will say that X was very original in a lot of ways. It was almost a story of man vs. beast, until they brought out the man vs. church thing that I thought was just another version of the same conspiracy-fighting we've seen in just about every other story in the series. I think they'd do well to try to think outside the box for their characters' motivations, and not try so hard to make EVERY main non-villanous character have overarching redeeming and flawing qualities. Shadow was great in VI for this very reason; he never really became a good guy, even after reconnecting with his daughter. He simply made one sacrificial act at a pivotal point in the story. Kain was a great character because he never forgave himself, but he's been copied by many subsequent characters (Cloud, Squall, Celes, etc.). However, SE's been trying to make fresh faces by their latest protagonists (Zidane, Tidus, and Vaan).
One of the bigger complaints I have about the series is the rehashing of many themes. I understand the desire and even the need for continuity, but the story itself doesn't need to follow a set formula. The bad guy doesn't have to fool the world into loving him. There doesn't have to be a conspiracy theory duping the world. That being said, I think they've done a wonderful job of making it feel fresh, regardless of actual freshness.
Y'know what I think would be cool? If your main character ended up betraying the party, and BECAME the main bad guy a good, long way into the game. This character you've invested in, in a way, betrays you. And now an unlikely in the party--the sole survivor, perhaps--has to rise up to beat this fella that he has no chance against. Same conspiratorial theme, very fresh twist. Rips yer heart out like they did in the old days.

CHIP said:
I agree with bitteroldman....The games are undoubtedly becoming better to play but in my opinion they're progressively losing their charm. And it's sad to see....Another thing that bugs me is the lack of mini-games in the recent games....FFVII was a master-class in narrative and pacing, with a story that people still love today. In conclusion, Square need to start focusing more on FF's story and developing the characters....
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QFT. But the gameplay needs updated as well. They did well in X with the battle system (at least you could always use EVERYONE in your party, and levelling up gave you freedom to develop the character you wanted).
The original FF games were based off of the Dragon Warrior series in their style, but presented in a way that was very Square. This is the format that revolutionized the genre. Nowadays, the Bioware format is the way to go, and Square is trying to find their niche in this. They just need to find their way to do this WITHOUT reinventing the wheel. If it rolls, it works. Now make it pretty and DRIVE, dagnabbit!
And, yes, agreeing with me is wise. And yes, the charm and minigames must return. Whippersnapper.
 
Well it's always been true that Square have never made two FF games that are the exactly same in terms gameplay, so I think it hard to really define the 'old style'. They've always tweaked and added fresh new parts to the standard Turn-based style they got comfortable with back with the original Final Fantasy and as bitteroldman rightly says from the Dragon Warrior series before that.

But I think one potential problem is that recently they've been making much make much more drastic changes; which by all means isn't necessarily a bad thing but it certainly is risky when your fans have grown so used to a certain style. Unfortunately it's the pressure of the recent games industry, I've never seen computer game techonology develop as fast as it has in the past few years, and it will keep getting faster amazingly! Square(-Enix) are a much bigger company than they used to be so they need to keep up with this new pace and catch new audiences to stay a float... for better or for worse? Time will tell...
 
I think there is a good balance between new and old.
I loved how in XII there were no random encounters (those bug the crap out of me)
I like the addition of voice actors personally :D
but I would like to see some of the old school stuff brought back (such as a job system (X-2 doesn't count))
and I would also like to see XI's you change with your armour thing :D
 
I like the changes done to Final Fantasy- unlike Dragon Quest which is clearly unmarketable in the West for one major reason, as it is still very 1980-90s, except for VIII's voices.

Unlike DQ, Final Fantasy remains fresh and exciting due to the changes added to it by through every game. I like how in the game industry, if you have gripes with one game, it would no doubt be sorted out or replaced in a sequel.

If Final Fantasy returned to its days of simple battle systems and loss of voices, I can see a major loss of a fanbase who will then cross over to Bioware's games. I don't want that to happen (I don't mind Bioware, as I loved Mass Effect), which is why change is something that we need to embrace for the benefit of the company and the franchise.

bitteroldman is right in that we should have the ultimate betrayal of a protagonist. When I saw what Vaan was really like, I screamed. A character who ultimately betrays you would be the ultimate plot twist for a dark series. I hope Nomura is listening for Versus XIII.

Why stop there? Have a female character who both the protagonist and the player relate with- then have the ultimate betrayal happen when she kills the protagonist and becomes an unexpected ultimate villain who DOESN'T FIND REDEMPTION!! That would make a change!
 
Havent replied here in a while, thanks for all the comments guys, appreciate it.

Even though i agree and understand on some things you all say, I am one of those people who don't like "complete" change. It just doesnt feel like a final fantasy game anymore and i know some people agree with me on this.
 
dan290786 said:
Havent replied here in a while, thanks for all the comments guys, appreciate it.

Even though i agree and understand on some things you all say, I am one of those people who don't like "complete" change. It just doesnt feel like a final fantasy game anymore and i know some people agree with me on this.
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Okay. I get what you're saying. Before, it had the drama, but it also had enough lightheartedness to make it fun. Before, it was a thinking feller's game. Before, it was less about style and more about substance.


This is a bittie list of some of the things I think make a game a Final Fantasy:

1. A quest that spans the whole world and becomes the ultimate war against evil/destruction for that world; the war that ends all wars; armageddon. Basically.

2. Airships, chocobos, and--lately--moogles.

3. A personal story that focuses not only on the grand adventure but on the devolepment of the characters

4. A collection of characters both in and out of the party with varying abilities, personalities, etc.

5. Menu-based combat that is about making decisions and developing character power and ability rather than relying on button mashing and player's ability

6. Anything could be deceptive/not as it appears

7. Creative developments for gameplay and story (mini-games, sidequests, etc.)

8. A work of art

In these regards, I think there have been some of the games that have struggled to fit some of these concepts in. (eg: X nearly could've gotten by without airships, VIII without moogles and chocobos, etc.). Sometimes, they change so much at once the whole thing feels foreign and nearly unlikeable, no matter how good it is (remember playing VIII after VII, and IX after that? Or playing XII after X? II after I? V after IV?) Sometimes it feels like they've added characters just cuz they felt like they needed more (Setzer. Quistis. Fran. Penelo. Kimahri. etc.) Sometimes they copy off of themselves (Squall=Cloud. Tidus=Zidane. Terra=Cecil. Yuna=Garnet. Seymour=Kuja. etc.) Sometimes it seems so dang somber that you forget it used to be a cartoon.

I can absolutely see why you could look at Final Fantasy X and wonder how they got there from IX. Absolutely. And I think there's definite reasons to miss it. But the company can't really make games like those anymore, because the platform has changed. They have to adapt.
 
Recently I've found myself thinking the same thing. "What the hell is Square-Enix doing?! they need to leave the franchise alone if they can't make it like the old FFs!" Now, I love and have played most of the Final Fantasy franchise and have to say, I'm not one to like change at all. However, I think that I'm going to give Square Enix one last chance with FF13.

Personally I love Final Fantasy 6, 7, 8, 9 (mainly for characters) and 10 but didn't like X-2 or XII. I think that after awhile change is neccesary and with the times growing so does the gaming industry. They're experiementing, trying new things to keep the fans hooked and it's understandable in this day and age. All of us will be able to enjoy the classics because we grew up with them but with the new generation they tend to be veering off towards other games so SE has to act in order to broaden their fanbase.

Sadly, us old time gamers won't like some of the changes but some of us might, but I will say one thing. Square Enix aren't our dogs, in the end we can't tell them what to do and trying to do that is like we're acting as their boss. They're trying to decide what is right for the game.. I however, think that if they want to make games like FF13 where it is different from Final Fantasy, then they should try to name it something different. I would really like to remember FF for what it was and not what it is becoming.

I think Square Enix is godmodding to many characters, Vincent Valentine being a key character that was overpowered. Hopefully though we can see a positive change in ff-13 but if not, then I think that I'll give up on the FF games that will be released in the future.
 
bitteroldman said:
Okay. I get what you're saying. Before, it had the drama, but it also had enough lightheartedness to make it fun. Before, it was a thinking feller's game. Before, it was less about style and more about substance.


This is a bittie list of some of the things I think make a game a Final Fantasy:

1. A quest that spans the whole world and becomes the ultimate war against evil/destruction for that world; the war that ends all wars; armageddon. Basically.

2. Airships, chocobos, and--lately--moogles.

3. A personal story that focuses not only on the grand adventure but on the devolepment of the characters

4. A collection of characters both in and out of the party with varying abilities, personalities, etc.

5. Menu-based combat that is about making decisions and developing character power and ability rather than relying on button mashing and player's ability

6. Anything could be deceptive/not as it appears

7. Creative developments for gameplay and story (mini-games, sidequests, etc.)

8. A work of art

In these regards, I think there have been some of the games that have struggled to fit some of these concepts in. (eg: X nearly could've gotten by without airships, VIII without moogles and chocobos, etc.). Sometimes, they change so much at once the whole thing feels foreign and nearly unlikeable, no matter how good it is (remember playing VIII after VII, and IX after that? Or playing XII after X? II after I? V after IV?) Sometimes it feels like they've added characters just cuz they felt like they needed more (Setzer. Quistis. Fran. Penelo. Kimahri. etc.) Sometimes they copy off of themselves (Squall=Cloud. Tidus=Zidane. Terra=Cecil. Yuna=Garnet. Seymour=Kuja. etc.) Sometimes it seems so dang somber that you forget it used to be a cartoon.

I can absolutely see why you could look at Final Fantasy X and wonder how they got there from IX. Absolutely. And I think there's definite reasons to miss it. But the company can't really make games like those anymore, because the platform has changed. They have to adapt.
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I completely agree with you bitteroldman, I know nowadays they have to adapt, new technology and what not. I think i'd enjoy the newer FF games more if they definitely had an overworld and airship you can actually fly around place to place again, chocobo's have been in every game and am sure it will continue, I'm really hoping FFXIII will have a victory theme after battles or bosses (I'm sure it will).

What do you think about FFXIV and i think FFXV being made to play online like XI? I'm not too sure i like the idea myself.
 
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