I had given up on the FF community. (at least internet-wise)

[Razberry Knight]

Its really difficult to have an on-going discussion in a forum. I do get a lot of insightful thoughts every now and then, but honestly, its to the point where i see bad comparisons, analogies and false information.

I have a lot to say about the series. and i mean A LOT....but there is no point in saying it anymore when people either downplay your comments, or just never discuss.

It may be because this forum is dying out. But even so, every FF community i've been in has been dying out.

 

[Harlequin]

I think all of what you've detailed is prevalent in every gaming community all over the internet. As for discussion I think it's definitely a good thing but then over the years I've come to stop trying to bludgeon people with my opinion and really just said my piece and left it at that. You'd be surprised how many people are of the same opinion and willing to discuss but getting involved in an argument is different to discussing, which sadly is what these discussions can easily devolve into.

 

[Razberry Knight]

Its rather pointless for me to make any form of opinion only if people just "hear" it but not really "listen" or would like to know why i feel the way i feel.

And a lot of times, its more difficult to see it the same way for the opoosite side when the opposite side is more in lines with "i like it".

There are still a lot of forums around and still active. Unfortunately controlled by the biggest idiots in the world. Kh13.com/KHinsider are known for have huge amounts of control in who is in , and who they will push out.

 

[Linnaete]

Truth be told, most of the old regulars who used to engage in a multitude of FF-based discussions have either: a) moved on with their lives, or have simply grown out of topic-specific forum communities; and/or b) just not very interested in Final Fantasy anymore. I won't begrudge anyone for believing that they've "grown out" of the series, perhaps because the culture within Square Enix just breeds and perpetuates the sort of bombastic bad anime-influenced writing that is primarily aimed for teenagers and not for maturing tastes. I carefully use "perhaps", because I realise I am making a bold generalisation/claim here.

When you've discussed all you can about the games that made a mark on your childhood, I imagine plenty of people - who may now be facing 12-hour shifts at work and with family and other commitments to attend to - simply have no more reason or enthusiasm in their hectic adult lives to revisit the debates about Aerith or Tifa and whichever one ought to be considered the canonical partner for Cloud. Nowadays, the most you can discuss is every single scrap of FFXV minutae in astonishing detail, which seems to be the activity of the hyper-hardcore fans. You'll probably find them here or on NeoGAF. I'm sorry that FFF doesn't seem very conducive for in-depth Final Fantasy discussions anymore, but you'll find that this is also a symptom of a broader internet trend in general. The dedicated forum community for particular topics has largely given way to much larger, more general forum boards like IGN and NeoGAF that cast a wide net over many different topic areas; and the prevalent channels of social networking media today.

As for the rest of what you have said...well, you can't really demand that everyone start engaging in discussion in the specific manner and parameters you want them to. It's not a phenomenon exclusive to the Final Fantasy fanbase. The gut reaction of "I like, or don't like what I saw/felt/played, because ___" is everywhere. Most people aren't too fussed with the need to critically expound on the how and whys of their opinions any further (though I would welcome it). I appreciate the fact that posters on this forum do have the enthusiasm and courtesy (ignoring for a moment that the mods would hound their arses anyway if they don't!) to provide a reason for any opinionated claim in their posts. It's more than what I can say for NeoGAF, where so many threads devolve into dull list posts as casually drawn up as a grocery shopping list.

 

[Razberry Knight]

I think many people push my opinions aside. And i also have a life. i dont get to comment often, but when there is a heated debate, even if it feels like i have so many things to do, i end up making it. But its also the fact that when people do respond, they tend to underestimate me, and when i do give a further and thorough response, they shy away all of a sudden.

But overall, like i said, i given up on the FF community, not just FFF.net's community.

 

[Shaissa]

I guess the real question becomes what kind of topics are you going bring up that hasn't been brought up about the past games 1000000000000000 times before? How many times can we talk about Aeris vs Aerith or What are the similarities between each game? or if XIii was a "real final fantasy" or not?

I get what you are saying, but at the same time there is no reason in my mind to bring up old topics to have the same discussion. Now once FFXV comes out, we might have a new topic to discuss but I don't see a point in constantly bringing up old topics.

This is just my belief though.

 

[Razberry Knight]

I guess the real question becomes what kind of topics are you going bring up that hasn't been brought up about the past games 1000000000000000 times before? How many times can we talk about Aeris vs Aerith or What are the similarities between each game? or if XIii was a "real final fantasy" or not?

I get what you are saying, but at the same time there is no reason in my mind to bring up old topics to have the same discussion. Now once FFXV comes out, we might have a new topic to discuss but I don't see a point in constantly bringing up old topics.

This is just my belief though.

At this point, i have so much to talk about FF15, but i can only 'initiate' the discussion, theres more to be said, but i can't say it without the progress. Still its mroe than that, its creating new opinions among the discussions.

as for aerith vs aeris. its clear. FF13 unfortunately is an ff game, but only in name.

 

[Linnaete]

Soooo, you can't fully express what you wish to say about FFXV...unless there are people participating in the discussion to move it along? What's wrong with putting out a whole, complete theory in a single post and have a discussion organically proceed from there, rather than wait for constant sequential back-and-forths?

As editorial staff, I'll be happy to publish your thoughts in an article on the front page. But if this doesn't work out, you can try your hand at a site like the one I linked (Mognet). Having been a member there myself and semi-knowledgeable enough with how the place ticks, I'm comfortably sure that you can create some good buzz there.

 

[Razberry Knight]

its not a "theory". but an "opinion". but i feel that i can't express it all, without being fully challenged.

 

[Rey]

1) I am going to be brutally honest but this forum concerning activity in FF discussions has met its doom. I have been a member here since 2008 and even I can recall that there were discussions that are more interesting and everyone was into FF at the time. However, when XIII came along, this forum went down into negativity and you have to experience things such as "fuck Square Enix, I bought a ps3 just for versus XIII", FF is dead to me, lol, "they are already planning sequels to XIII and it wasn't good", etc. You see where I am going with this now, do you? FFF is not the place anymore to have a feud about Final Fantasy. We had some hellish threads in the past like Aerith and her Faith, The LTD of FFVII, etc. I know that those moderators at the time found the discussion pointless and people were fighting over it excessively. Let us not even get started on how bad the SE news section was with *cough Hatifnatten and baseballbat boy cough* but yeah, you get the point. Some people just really did not give a rat's arse about what Square Enix was doing and constructive criticism died on this forum. I can think of a few people that aren't myself that still articulate their points about FF, but I'm going to be honest and say that half the people that were here ages ago are now gone and really don't care about FF anymore or because of the reason that this forum no longer really enjoys discussing FF. The shoutbox is a main factor in this, because we tend to discuss various topics and it was always mostly the same thing back in the day. Hell, I remember people just being plain bored about discussing FF in the shoutbox and they would just remove themselves from the conversation, or worse, tell us to shut the fuck up and discuss it in threads.


2) In regards to FF XV, YOU and ANYONE ON THIS FORUM are better off voicing their opinions on the Official FFXV forums that launched earlier this week. It is what I have been doing sometimes because I CARE about the future of FF and I WANT this forum to be ACTIVE again. Come FFXV, near the end of 2016, I feel like we will get more activity but that will only be if the game is good and people care about it enough to discuss things. I do not care if you are not a FF fan anymore or you hate Square Enix, if you are on this forum, it means you care in some way about XV, since it is what will bring out forum back to high activity peaks per week. We are the biggest FF forum, at least I think so, but the same can be said about many FF communities.

[FONT=&quot]3) My opinion: I think that if you were looking for discussion here you found a dead end, Razzberry. You can’t suddenly expect people to start caring about FF again when we lost pretty much half the forum. I remember some friends on here telling me that there is just simply TOO MUCH off topic discussions, and I did agree with her, but it was only a matter of time before people discuss FF, whether it was 3-4 hours a day, or a major announcement was revealed. Many people have moved on in life probably seeking another community, or maybe they are even somewhere happier. Similarly, in forums such as Gamefaqs and Neogaf, the discussion is similar to FF communities such as ours, but they move so fast that barely anyone puts effort into their posts. [/FONT]

 

[Razberry Knight]

well unfortunately...thats no help.

 

[Linnaete]

its not a "theory". but an "opinion". but i feel that i can't express it all, without being fully challenged.

I still think it's better to give it a go and present the full opinion piece as best you can. It's a bit of a tall order to expect vibrant critical discussion from a reader if they're not working with the full context and reasoning provided by the author to properly understand their train of thought. It's establishing that foothold first so you and someone else are operating at least on a similar if not, same, level to start off with.

 

[Razberry Knight]

I still think it's better to give it a go and present the full opinion piece as best you can. It's a bit of a tall order to expect vibrant critical discussion from a reader if they're not working with the full context and reasoning provided by the author to properly understand their train of thought. It's establishing that foothold first so you and someone else are operating at least on a similar if not, same, level to start off with.

I have done so plenty of times. but its more that the words dont come to mind until one responds on their views to further clarify why i see it differently.

 

[Galadín]

With complete respect to your point of view Razberry Knight and at the risk of sounding like a jerk here, it seems to me that you're more upset with people disagreeing with you than anything. Your opening post talks about other people's "bad comparisons, analogies and false information" which is a little off in regards to opinions (which is what this discussion is about; people discussing their opinions on Final Fantasy). Considering that you feel people are pushing your opinions aside, how do you think you treat theirs' with this kind of approach?

All I'm saying is that if you go in with this kind of negativity, it's all you're going to see (no matter what forum you look at). Discussions often times don't develop as people would want them to and they really can't be controlled or made to go as we want; if that's what you are looking for, you might as well talk to yourself in the mirror. People are going to respond in ways that wouldn't be expected, everyone is going to misunderstand at one point or another and the basic fact that people just view things completely differently is what morphs topics and makes them not as some would like.

As for why people apparently "shy away" for further discussion, Harlequin's answer is pretty much on point:

As for discussion I think it's definitely a good thing but then over the years I've come to stop trying to bludgeon people with my opinion and really just said my piece and left it at that. You'd be surprised how many people are of the same opinion and willing to discuss but getting involved in an argument is different to discussing, which sadly is what these discussions can easily devolve into.

I hope you don't lose heart in this community (or any others for that matter). If you enjoyed being part of a Final Fantasy community and talking about the games then it would be a pity to lose that, but there would have to be a level of acceptance with the changes in such communities (as others have outlined) because it's really unlikely that things will go back to the way they were before since the fan base has matured and changed completely.

 

[Razberry Knight]

Like i said before, its not whether i want people to agree with me. But when i have a discussion, i dont want a half-baked responce and then never come back.


I definitely believe in opposing views. But things turn to arguments, doesn't mean they "devolve" to them. If things get heated but at the same time keeping track of whats being said, then by no means is that a problem.


But its worst when people dont even know what your true feelings are. and whats the point of saying my peace if my peace isn't really about "saying it". Everyone knows how i feel about certain things...but do they know why? Do they also know the gravity and how serious i take it and why i can't just simply budge myself to others opinions as easily? Not that i'm saying anyone expects that of me.


But i dont find it mature at all just to make a comment and never comment again, in fact i find it the easy way out. I tend to get that a lot, people who make a small responce that was half-baked are usually the ones who probably had more to say but refuse not to.


Imagine a community where people want to actively discuss, heated arguments or not about their opinion but also wanted to see more into other's opinions. I can't revael every detail because i would have to foresee what your next counter argument is in order to make my opinion complete.


if moving on from the forum is "Maturity" then consider me mature. but its not just this forum in general. 'm moving away from the internet. Whenever i share news about something to someone when it comes to KH, FF, and others (with a completely neutral tone), i get the reaction and discussion i hope for....i would love to see more of that outside of my group like the internet, but why hope?

 

[Harlequin]

In my opinion you're not being introspective enough. Nothing in your posts suggests creating more interesting content or improving your disposition to make for a more conducive discussion. It's all very demanding, like a struggling chef expecting other people's tastes to change rather than cooking up something more palatable. There's a lot of foot stomping going on here.

FFXIV gets discussed daily. If you're choice of topic isn't attracting attention maybe you should reflect on a few points such as: Does it interest people? Is there enough subject matter to discuss it at length? Is the way I'm coming across giving people the impression it's going to descend into an argument over something they don't care to argue about?

The only time I can remember having a discussion with you on FF was on the FFVII remake here http://www.finalfantasyforums.net/threads/38124-Final-Fantasy-VII-Remake/page171. I saw your reply and decided against replying myself because of the way you came across and I really am past writing up long posts arguing about what I'd simply rather not discuss at length, let alone argue over.

 

[Razberry Knight]

I remember that discussion. Was my comment so off? everything was mostly based on what SE has already provided. So its not like i was downplaying your opinion on another opinion.

Regardless, introspective comments? I can say every comment is introspective. but this shows exactly what i mean. To me in that discussion, there was nothing else to say on your part. It wasn't that you didn't want to argue, its just that it "couldn't" be argued.

Your concerns were based on massive changes, despite SE already providing us multiple FF7-sequels, prequels and spin offs that don't make it an issue.




But i feel strongly about something....can i say the same for everyone else? Its up to them to say for themselves. And its been a constant trend of a discussion ending, but never getting the heart of it. And thats what i want, because in the end other people lose out to.


if you're all sattisfied with me not understanding how strong or weak your stance is, then know that i'm not the same. I seek to see others views, but also to be treated the same. I would like to discuss....not have casually say "I disagree" or "i agree" and leave it at that.

i guess i just feel more strongly about it then most (and yes, thats a challenge).

 

[Six]

Actually, to everyone posting, we can all make it seem easy and say this is the way things are. However, we've all been passionate about something, and when those needs aren't met it's sometimes hard to move on, or find another way of going about it. With that said, I'm sorry that you feel like you aren't getting what you're looking for when it comes to FF communities in general. The internet is a big place, so I'm sure you could find some others with the same debate passion that you have. I wouldn't give up on it completely.

And why hope? Just because you may be in the minority on the communities you've visited it doesn't mean what you "want" out of a debate is wrong. It's your passion, and even though you can't force people to share that passion, you can always hope and look for others to share the same things you enjoy. =]

Like you said it's definitely a challenge if you feel more passionately about something than others do, however, being passionate about something is a good thing. You aren't the only person who has a strong passion for getting to the bottom of a debate, I guarantee you there's people out there like that. Don't give up on something you enjoy, just because you don't have a lot of people that share the things you enjoy.

I actually didn't want to post because I normally am not a heavy debater anyway, but I feel like that was worth saying. Whatever you decide to do, though, I hope you stick around and can accept that this may not be the biggest place to debate, but it's a place you can still settle at for what it is. =]

 

[Razberry Knight]

Well I'm glad someone understands where I was heading...I really don't know any other place where ppl feel as strongly and have as much to say as I do (regardless if they agree with me or not)


One of the biggest debates I was in was final fantasy 13, but in the end, I understood how the fans took it and what they we're considering and what they weren't while I was able to show the same.

Ill just have to wait and see

 

[WarEnvoy]

Hello Razberry Knight, I don't normally post much but hope I can add on a little something extra to somebody if I could without coming off as negative, so pardon if there is any unintended shots due to illegitimate typing..

I am quite recent member in FFForums however I would have to say I pretty much enjoyed my time here. I do not know what is the initial culture like either it was real heated discussions or it stays cool everywhere, but I still feel (thus far) the post I'm receiving distinguish that there are still common grounds many FFFans around here have which we can agree on without external theories outside the original story-tell actually withholding understanding in terms of storyline. Generally, I do exercise selective topic discussion and I am still open to all, but commonly I jump to discussions relating to game storyline segment most so discussions relating to for example critique to SE and company's movement or something is maybe much lesser.

Following up I have yet to play through FFXIII onwards thus not entering the FFXIII discussion board which may have been quite fired up and heated as you mentioned, something I do not yet comprehend as of now..You probably can tell that most people here are what is perceived as the 'silent majority' typically reading and agreeing for themselves when someone of a common perspective/view/understanding have posted within that particular topic discussion. I do not necessary feel the need to post because it was something somebody else had already reconciled within the discussion (Just the way I see it; if others have a different view of seeing it) therefore by posting it even more I generally feel slightly redundant and do not feel that I add extra value to it.

I do not exactly know how many hours people do long discussions around and being new I do not recall having a long-length discussion that as of my knowledge. Furthermore, lets face it that life do has priorities. Despite them though most of the time I come to cool off my time with a good read. I do enjoy them. What .Fleur said is probably true that some may have felt that they 'outgrown' the series move on with life and so on. I typically, do agree to a certain extent that I may be one of them. Just that reading up here and discussion does not takes my love for FF away and I rather give it out by coming here. Another point worth mentioning is yes maybe new series doesn't captivate my interest (as of my current priorities) to play now until a certain season maybe until my next vacation or something as compared to back before during the 'golden era'

Nevertheless, I just want to emphasize that there is not necessarily a need to give up totally on FF Community because I would feel that I have none elsewhere to give and share my love for FF and thoughts to somebody else and I believe this Forum was a platform to serve that purpose. There's many factors concerning that leading forward to people kinda 'moving on' and 'less discussion' and anything can be a drawback if SE direction really changed since Sakaguchi left or just new marketing something I don’t know but that can be debated, another off topic but just to digress and state one example.

However, I do hope if you decided it is not an impulsive move for you to do so either 'leave in bitterness' for yourself or 'stay on with a second chance' thing over "move on from the FF community" because of conflicting cultures and changes because I believe there is still people of the same common ground passion to still debate and discuss over various topics as I mentioned within the 'silent majority'. Just hope that they still do speak out once in a while. Lol. THUS FAR* I find this forum to be people of objective mindset and good forbearance and thinking without funny theories leading up to strange plot twist that never existed or rather discredit the game and story-telling or something. Hope my sharing affirms you..!

P.S. I hope to play FFXIII soon though to really see for myself if the game is getting the common norms that both sides of the coin have to say. I'll probably stumble upon your post in the future! FFXV maybe not so soon though.