In regards to substance intake.

[moogles on mescaline]

What are your views on the subject of substance intake (drug usage)?

Personally, I feel that our society (referring to US) fails horribly. We are a society that has chosen crack, meth, heroin, alchol - the absolute worst, and dismiss and subsequently outlaw truly beneficial substances which are mind-expansive (e.g. psilocybin, mescaline, lysergic acid amides, DMT). We have not yet developed the brain cells necessary to just BE OBJECTIVE and select what is good for us, and discard the rest. This isn't even enlightenment, it is common sense!

Western civilization, for the most part, lacks the respectful disposition towards entheogens that civilizations which came before us held for them; for instance, the Aztecs - hailed as one of the most advanced civilizations to grace our muddy ball - very frequently partook in the ingestion of morning glory seeds which contain several lysergic acid amides (LSA's, basically natural LSD/acid) and hell, look at all the correct astronomical calculations they did. Native Americans originally viewed Peyote as a literal deity, the Nahua tribe of Mexico called psilocybin mushrooms the "flesh of god", the list goes on.

What it is, is that back then they never saw them as "drugs". There was no such bullshit as "GETTIN FUCKD UP DUDEZ' or "IM TRIPPIN BALLS MAAAAN'. They had a much more serious outlook on them, and saw them as a means towards enlightenment, transcendence, tranquility, and a sort of means of connecting to the universe. Nowadays, it is rare that anybody holds these powerful substances in any respect. It's just "fun" for them.

I believe that psychedelics SHOULD NOT be recreational; I mean, they can be, but for the most part, they are not. The psychedelic and dissociative experiences are in no way fun. Since when was ego death, the complete disintegration of the idea of "i" or "the self", landing in a state of being where you truly feel like you don't exist but can continue to perceive the world, "fun"?

Discuss.

 

[Big Casino]

We choose what we want do with out lives. You can choose to do something or choose not to. Being a drug addict doesnt make a person bad at all. It becomes a bad thing when said people rob and steal from others in order to feed their addiction. There are plenty addicts out there working to feed their habit and as long as theyre not directly hurting someone else i dont see a problem with it. If they really want to quit then they have to make that decision and take the appropriate action.
Alcohol is legal almost everywhere in the world. To me its just a drug thats accepted by society. Whereas other drugs like heroin and cocaine are not accepted. Its all the same to me whether the person is a junkie or an alcky, it only bothers me when these people are are harming others to feed their habit.
I know where i live right now theres a big craze for a drug called m-kat. Its a legal high that you can buy online. Its recieved alot of news lately as many people have been dying off of it. As a result its being made a class a illegal.
I have a lot of oppion on this subject but il just say it clearly.
If people wanna do drugs then im fine with that, not everyone is stupid enough to let it turn into a serious problem. if it does turn serious then its up to them to sort it out before things go really downhill. Junkies who rob pensioners for a hit are scum, not because they do drugs but because they rip off other people.

 

[moogles on mescaline]

It's not so much that I have a problem with people doing drugs. The problem is that many people are very quick to point out how 'harmful' and 'useless' psychedelics are; I have found that most of the people who hold those views are either uninformed or - if they do partake in any usage - are aligned more with the 'feel-good', mood-altering drugs like E, coke, alcohol. The primary difference is that those drugs merely amplify your current state, whereas psychedelics actually introduce new elements into your reality and thus radically alter your state of conciousness.

It sort of makes me chuckle though that people actually profess FEAR in taking psychedelics. I understand where they come from though, after perceiving reality in 1 single way for like 20 years it would be a bit breathtaking to suddenly see the world in a completely twisted view. Though, once you become more accustomed to and take control over the psychedelic experience it can become one of the best things to have ever happened to you.

Fun Fact: Bill Gates did maaaad acid in his 20's. Now we have computers. The dude who made iPod did maaaaad acid in his 20's. Now we have iPods. Random drunk #4793254543 drank maaaaaaad alcohol in his 20's. Now his family is broken apart, his liver is shit, and he occasionally throws up on the street corner then passes out.

 

[Big Casino]

It's not so much that I have a problem with people doing drugs. The problem is that many people are very quick to point out how 'harmful' and 'useless' psychedelics are; I have found that most of the people who hold those views are either uninformed or - if they do partake in any usage - are aligned more with the 'feel-good', mood-altering drugs like E, coke, alcohol. The primary difference is that those drugs merely amplify your current state, whereas psychedelics actually introduce new elements into your reality and thus radically alter your state of conciousness.

It sort of makes me chuckle though that people actually profess FEAR in taking psychedelics. I understand where they come from though, after perceiving reality in 1 single way for like 20 years it would be a bit breathtaking to suddenly see the world in a completely twisted view. Though, once you become more accustomed to and take control over the psychedelic experience it can become one of the best things to have ever happened to you.

Fun Fact: Bill Gates did maaaad acid in his 20's. Now we have computers. The dude who made iPod did maaaaad acid in his 20's. Now we have iPods. Random drunk #4793254543 drank maaaaaaad alcohol in his 20's. Now his family is broken apart, his liver is shit, and he occasionally throws up on the street corner then passes out.

I dont understand what point your trying to make though. Of course people are gunna point out how harmull drugs are. Theyre illegal, theyre frowned upon and yes they can damage a person physically and mentally.
And of course people do drugs to get a high. Nobodies gunna spend money on coke to feel the same as they did before taking it. The high is the attraction. Thats the same with every drug and i include alcohol when i say drug.
Also drugs like ecstasy and cocaine also cause halucination, not just mushrooms and lsd. Heck you have one too many pints at the bar and your gunna be seeing blurry lines amongst other things.
IM not really sure what it is your trying to say here =s

 

[Dee]

I don't really give a damn what people do as long as it doesn't negatively affect me in some way. If you wanna go get blazed or have some crazy trip because you're too boring or you need an 'escape', more power to you.

 

[Bambi]

If you want to take drugs, then thats up to you. I'm not arsed what people do. Its when it interferes with other peoples lives, like a smack head going on the rob. If you want to lead this life style, then fund it yourself you disgusting cunt

I dont care what people get up to, its their life, as long as it doesnt affect me. And tbf, it shouldn't affect other innocents lives. Clatty cunts

 

[moogles on mescaline]

I dont understand what point your trying to make though. Of course people are gunna point out how harmull drugs are. Theyre illegal, theyre frowned upon and yes they can damage a person physically and mentally.
And of course people do drugs to get a high. Nobodies gunna spend money on coke to feel the same as they did before taking it. The high is the attraction. Thats the same with every drug and i include alcohol when i say drug.
Also drugs like ecstasy and cocaine also cause halucination, not just mushrooms and lsd. Heck you have one too many pints at the bar and your gunna be seeing blurry lines amongst other things.
IM not really sure what it is your trying to say here =s

I was trying to point out the difference between drug usage nowadays and its usage before. You realize the prohibition of drugs is something distinctive only of the 20th century right? They are frowned upon nowadays because of people who essentially abuse them and treat them with disrespect. The point I'm trying to make is that people should

A) Learn to treat them with respect
B) Use them for a more meaningful, beneficial purpose other than "just getting fucked up". Meditating in psychotropic-altered senses has many times helped clear my mind, overcome many prevalent, long lasting issues I have had, and really helped me to start cherishing life.

I'm not trying to say OH PEOPLE SHOULDNT BLAH BLAH or try to command people to do something. I just truly feel that if people had a much more shamanistic, more spiritual approach towards psychedelics it would be so m8uch more beneficial than getting pissdrunk at a bar.

 

[eye of the divine]

Fun Fact: Bill Gates did maaaad acid in his 20's. Now we have computers. The dude who made iPod did maaaaad acid in his 20's. Now we have iPods. Random drunk #4793254543 drank maaaaaaad alcohol in his 20's. Now his family is broken apart, his liver is shit, and he occasionally throws up on the street corner then passes out.

Well thats maybe one person who didn't let it consume their life and to be honest drugs tend to mess up more lives than it does create anything and I bet if you talked to bill gates it wasn't the acid that gave him his ideas.

I have seen what drugs do to people (quite a few people) its not pretty and it is very upsetting watching people; even if you don't know them that well poisoning themselves at a steady rate until the person that was there to begin with no longer exists.

I'm not trying to say OH PEOPLE SHOULDNT BLAH BLAH or try to command people to do something. I just truly feel that if people had a much more shamanistic, more spiritual approach towards psychedelics it would be so m8uch more beneficial than getting pissdrunk at a bar.

you can't expect that from a society that in reality has not got a shamanistic approach anymore. The people that do live outside of most people's radars for example the amazon. However in modern society its now concidered to be a negative thing to do and is now socially frowned upon.

 

[Dee]

I have seen what drugs do to people (quite a few people) its not pretty and it is very upsetting watching people; even if you don't know them that well poisoning themselves at a steady rate until the person that was there to begin with no longer exists.

In a way, moogles is right. There are people who can 'control' themselves; that is, depending on what substance they are using. A lot of drugs are used to alter perception, some alter behavior, some alter personality. In any case, it takes a really grounded person who is happy with their life to truly be in charge and responsible, which...most people aren't. THEY are the reason they let themselves get out of control, and thus, the drugs tend to take over and their weakened minds and bodies get used to, they need, they crave, they cannot live without it.

If some people were more strong-willed, less stupid, more responsible, better educated about what they are putting in their body and if some drugs just didn't get you addicted, drugs would be a lot less harmless. But that's not the case. Therefore, they have a bad rap.

 

[moogles on mescaline]

In a way, moogles is right. There are people who can 'control' themselves; that is, depending on what substance they are using. A lot of drugs are used to alter perception, some alter behavior, some alter personality. In any case, it takes a really grounded person who is happy with their life to truly be in charge and responsible, which...most people aren't. THEY are the reason they let themselves get out of control, and thus, the drugs tend to take over and their weakened minds and bodies get used to, they need, they crave, they cannot live without it.

If some people were more strong-willed, less stupid, more responsible, better educated about what they are putting in their body and if some drugs just didn't get you addicted, drugs would be a lot less harmless. But that's not the case. Therefore, they have a bad rap.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. If people would at least educate themselves about it it woulkd be a step in the right direction; for instance, I do, at minimum, 2 weeks of research before I put anything into my body. How it metabolizes, risks, long term/short term effects, trip reports.

www.erowid.org

That site is very informative.

 

[eye of the divine]

If some people were more strong-willed, less stupid, more responsible, better educated about what they are putting in their body and if some drugs just didn't get you addicted, drugs would be a lot less harmless. But that's not the case. Therefore, they have a bad rap.

Sorry Dee I just can't agree with you on that there is no more or less sensible or reponisiblity when drugs are involved. If they were more educated they might have some common sense not to put it in there!

I will admit some people are more likely to become addicted than others because of the way their brain is wired but eventually the outcome will be the same.

As well as the fact that you cannot compaire the drugs we see now to the natural ones that were used in the past. They were not as refined to begin with and now they are much stronger.

 

[Donald Trump]

Western civilization, for the most part, lacks the respectful disposition towards entheogens that civilizations which came before us held for them; for instance, the Aztecs - hailed as one of the most advanced civilizations to grace our muddy ball - very frequently partook in the ingestion of morning glory seeds which contain several lysergic acid amides (LSA's, basically natural LSD/acid) and hell, look at all the correct astronomical calculations they did. Native Americans originally viewed Peyote as a literal deity, the Nahua tribe of Mexico called psilocybin mushrooms the "flesh of god", the list goes on.

What it is, is that back then they never saw them as "drugs". There was no such bullshit as "GETTIN FUCKD UP DUDEZ' or "IM TRIPPIN BALLS MAAAAN'. They had a much more serious outlook on them, and saw them as a means towards enlightenment, transcendence, tranquility, and a sort of means of connecting to the universe. Nowadays, it is rare that anybody holds these powerful substances in any respect. It's just "fun" for them.

I can see your point, but I'm inclined to disagree. Principally because I think you are making this argument to justify your own drug use. Secondly, I think the idea that drugs should be treated with reverence is pretentious. It implies that drugs are only for the intelligent, drugs that change your perceptions=good, drugs that make you feel better=bad, is what that seems to suggest. If you can't achieve transcendence without use of substances or you can't gain insight without using I don't think you deserve such knowledge/transcendence.

 

[moogles on mescaline]

I can see your point, but I'm inclined to disagree. Principally because I think you are making this argument to justify your own drug use. Secondly, I think the idea that drugs should be treated with reverence is pretentious. It implies that drugs are only for the intelligent, drugs that change your perceptions=good, drugs that make you feel better=bad, is what that seems to suggest. If you can't achieve transcendence without use of substances or you can't gain insight without using I don't think you deserve such knowledge/transcendence.

Lol my own drug usage needs no justification. I'm putting forth this argument becaus it is what I personally think, and I don't see how saying entheogens should be respectd is in any way pretentious. I don't think shamans or people who simply respect them are in any way pretentious.

 

[Donald Trump]

Lol my own drug usage needs no justification. I'm putting forth this argument becaus it is what I personally think, and I don't see how saying entheogens should be respectd is in any way pretentious. I don't think shamans or people who simply respect them are in any way pretentious.

You don't think people swallowing sugar cubes for 'enlightenment', whilst looking down on people taking e for a good time or smoking weed to relax is pretentious? Building up taking drugs as something that will inhance perception or allow transcendence is to me pretentious. That enlightenment and transcendence can be gained without hardwork or intelligence is arrogant. How many Swamis take LSD?

 

[moogles on mescaline]

You don't think people swallowing sugar cubes for 'enlightenment', whilst looking down on people taking e for a good time or smoking weed to relax is pretentious? Building up taking drugs as something that will inhance perception or allow transcendence is to me pretentious. That enlightenment and transcendence can be gained without hardwork or intelligence is arrogant. How many Swamis take LSD?

I take e for good times and smoke weed to relax. I am not saying that enlightenment/transcendence can ONLY be approached/acheived through psychedelic usage, that is stupid. I will usually set aside 1 day out of each month where I will ingest [insert powerful psychedelic here] and spend the entire day doing nothing but meditation. All others times lean more towards recreation, heh.

I am merely throwing it out there that, yeah, you can pretty much do whatever the fuck you want or put whatever you want in your body for whatever reasons ... but that people should acknowledge that these things have alot more potential than being strictly recreational.

When you meditate you are pretty much focusing inwards, right? Under the profound influence of such substances, the meditative state is vaaaaaaaaaastly enhanced. They are usually very introspective experiences that hell, I only feel I need to do it once a month. That is, of course, only when I ingest them for the reason of introspection and existential reflection.

Like Otto from The Simpsons said, "I don't need drugs to enjoy this. Only to enhance it."

 

[Dee]

Sorry Dee I just can't agree with you on that there is no more or less sensible or reponisiblity when drugs are involved. If they were more educated they might have some common sense not to put it in there!

I will admit some people are more likely to become addicted than others because of the way their brain is wired but eventually the outcome will be the same.

As well as the fact that you cannot compaire the drugs we see now to the natural ones that were used in the past. They were not as refined to begin with and now they are much stronger.

Hence why I added "if some drugs just didn't get you addicted", meaning that it's not always the persons fault. For instance, if someone was forced to take drugs and ended up getting addicted. In any case, I was referring to the people who do make the choice to take drugs. I know that it is not just weak-willed, weak-minded people who end up getting screwed, which is why I did not assume so. Perhaps you should pay more attention when you read?

 

[Marquis of Granby]

When you meditate you are pretty much focusing inwards, right? Under the profound influence of such substances, the meditative state is vaaaaaaaaaastly enhanced. They are usually very introspective experiences that hell, I only feel I need to do it once a month. That is, of course, only when I ingest them for the reason of introspection and existential reflection.

so its easier to make sense of life when you meditate under the influence? the dalai lama's doing it all wrong then. assuming youre not bullshitting about the entire thing (and i think you are) im with hal: you're trying to justify your own drug use. if you want to do drugs then feel free but dont do it under the guise of enlightenment...geez.

as for your shamanistic approach...what a load of shite. we dont live in mudhuts in the jungle anymore. we dont have rituals where we ingest poisonous brews for the sake of enlightenment. we have drug dealers who sell shit for money.

where this so called "argument" came from i dont know. this is an effeffeff forum, we dont do drugs we just argue over who has the best weapon (cloud or sephiroth). i think you're just copying and pasting from /b/. i also think you need to talk to frank. http://www.talktofrank.com/

 

[moogles on mescaline]

so its easier to make sense of life when you meditate under the influence? the dalai lama's doing it all wrong then. assuming youre not bullshitting about the entire thing (and i think you are) im with hal: you're trying to justify your own drug use. if you want to do drugs then feel free but dont do it under the guise of enlightenment...geez.

as for your shamanistic approach...what a load of shite. we dont live in mudhuts in the jungle anymore. we dont have rituals where we ingest poisonous brews for the sake of enlightenment. we have drug dealers who sell shit for money.

where this so called "argument" came from i dont know. this is an effeffeff forum, we dont do drugs we just argue over who has the best weapon (cloud or sephiroth). i think you're just copying and pasting from /b/. i also think you need to talk to frank. http://www.talktofrank.com/

LOLOL dude I'm not trying to justify my drug usage. I'm being dead serious about everything I'm saying. I have a radically different perspective towards it than other people. Just because there are drug dealers who just care about money, doesn't mean I have the same view on drugs as they do.

And no, the Dalai Lama is doing pretty damn good.

Also, I think you have some pretty big cojones saying everything I am saying is bullshit and that my 'shamanistic approach' to them is bullshit.

A) You kinda don't really know me in person.
B) All you really have to go on is what I say here.
C) What does 4chan have to do with any of this?
D) I know this is an FF forum. That's why I joined. But you forget, it's also a public forum, and I just decided to post a topic in the subforum dedicated to serious topics. Life isn't all about Buster Sword's and Materia dude, lol.

And yes, I stand by what I said. Meditating on hallucinogens = mind expansive and beneficial. There is no need for hostility or bland accusations, just because I don't fit the stereotype of the "typical" drug user doesn't mean there aren't people out there who actually break away from the mold. I mean, you can choose to still say I'm trying to justify my drug and I'm just using this as a huge guise and I really lay in an alley in a meth daze repeating in my mind IMMASHAMAN IMMASHAMAN (I don't do meth lol), but the truth of it is I'm just wondering if there is anybody else who shares the same disposition and approach towards entheogens.

Also, take note of the terms I use. There is a distinction between entheogens and just simply "drugs".

 

[Six]

Life isn't all about Buster Sword's and Materia dude, lol.

I don't think much of people who do drugs for my own reasons.

It's something I stay away from, and have seen happen to friends, and the consequences didn't just hurt them, if you know what I mean.

I'm also a no drinker. Sure, there's people who can keep a lit on it, but I personally don't think reasons such as "I drink to forget my bad day" or "I smoke weed to relax" are really good... well, reasons.

Personally, I think people just say that 'cause it seems to be the easy way. Just going out with friends and doing that.

Hell, I've never even smoked a cigarette in my life, but just because I don't feel the need to. If anyone does, they should go ahead.

It's not that I lose respect for people that drink or do drugs, I just rather not be involved with drugs, and I'll gladly come drink a coke with them, unless they're getting annoyed and drunk. Thank you.

xD

 

[Big Casino]

Going out drinking and forgetting what a shit day ive had is a great reason for me.
I get stressed i meet up with my pals down the bar and i unwind. People say drinking/ taking drugs to solve your problems are the the ways to get addicted and i guess in some ways thats kinda true but not everyones the same. I enjoy a drink and i dont need a reason to drink. If i want to i will and if people have issues with that then well thats their problem, not that i know anyone like that anyway.
I know what the consequences are but they dont worry me. I have the right to do as i please without being judged by others who aint perfect.