Maleficent - The Heartless?

Davey Gaga

Davey Gaga

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You'll all remember the scene in the first Kingdom Hearts where Riku takes his Keyblade and
unlocks the darkness in Maleficent's heart, transforming her in to her Dragon form
. That Keyblade has the power to unlock people's hearts.

With Sora, the effects caused
the hearts of the 7 Princesses to be returned and Sora to turn in to a Heartless, at which point Roxas was created
. We are left to assume that he was able to return to normal due to Kairi's influence on his heart both before and after this event.

Now, I have a few questions and a theory to my question: the purpose of this thread is to see what others think of it.

When Riku's Keyblade was used on Maleficent, we have no reason to assume that the effects should have been any different: as such, following the rules of Kingdom Hearts, shouldn't Maleficent have turned in to a Heartless? When people turn into Heartless, we see the Heartless Emblem embedded somewhere on them (alternatively, they simply become Shadows) - why didn't Maleficent have this on her? One answer might be that, when Scar turned in to a Heartless, he didn't bare the Heartless Emblem or become a Shadow and, thus, the rules must be different for those with stronger hearts.

As a sub-topic: Pete confirmed that "anger and jealousy turned the King of Pride Rock in to a Heartless"; where is Scar's Nobody? Additionally, where is is Maleficent's Nobody? Could the Maleficent we see in KH2 be her Nobody, simply unaware of/hiding the fact that she is a Nobody?

Another explanation, and my theory, is that Maleficent never actually turned in to a Heartless: her heart was unlocked but she was only immersed in the darkness in the same sense that Riku was (we know that Riku never "lost his heart" to the darkness, he only became lost in it). Her full potential was unlocked and, like Riku, prevented herself from losing her heart and never became a Heartless at all.

We now have a bit of a paradox: if she didn't become a Heartless, why did Sora?

Thoughts?
 
A simple answer I would respond with is that Nomura fucked up on the explanations in some aspects of the games and there's plenty of plot holes and continuity errors, however small they may be.

But here's the longer response where I'm struggling to understand the concepts myself :P

Just to clear up, it was technically "Ansem" that jabbed Maleficent with the keyblade since he overtook Riku by then.

And I know this was mentioned somewhere, but the heartless with those emblems on them, those are the heartless that "Ansem" created. Yeah, I know, there's a butt load of them, but that's what I read. So it doesn't matter if a heartless has an emblem or not; they're still heartless. Those oddly cute antenna heartless are still heartless even without emblems, right?

I'm gonna go with the theory that Maleficent didn't become a heartless. Why she didn't, I'm not sure. I agree that logically her getting her heart unlocked with Riku's keyblade would've made her a heartless like it did with Sora, but the main thing that makes me doubt she became a heartless is that 1) she comes back in KH2 as her original self, and 2) in a trailer for Birth by Sleep, we can see Aqua standing in front of Maleficent in her dragon form, so this is long before KH1, right? So she already had the ability to go into her dragon form and doesn't mean that it's her heartless form. Again, I'm assuming this is more of a continuity error though.

And it was also said in an Ansem Report that nobodies do remember their past lives. Maleficent does obviously remember what happened to her back in KH1. The only exception to this thus far is Roxas, but he's a special case ;D

Actually, branching off a bit, Oogie Boogie didn't remember what happened right away to him back in KH1 when Maleficent revived him in KH2. Maybe there's something to that as well?

I'm not sure about Scar's case. Pete wanted him to become a heartless so he could take his nobody, but you're right; where the heck was it? Unless Scar was in some weird limbo mode between heartless and nobody while Sora and co fought him *shrugs*

Also something I recently found out. Namine was also created at the same time as Roxas because apparently Kairi's heart released from Sora was what created Namine, not at the beginning of the game when her heart went into Sora o_O

As for why Sora became a heartless, I really don't know either xD

Maybe because Sora turned the keyblade on himself and wanted to release the heart it happened?
 
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well i dont have a big thery the 1 thing i thould of is that sora was a pure hart and malifisant was not she was evil wich filld her hart with hate and thats the reasson but sora gave his heart 2 kire and had no heart left so he was weak aginst the heartless but thats only a childs brain capasity
 
Fusionist said:
A simple answer I would respond with is that Nomura fucked up on the explanations in some aspects of the games and there's plenty of plot holes and continuity errors, however small they may be.

But here's the longer response where I'm struggling to understand the concepts myself :P

Just to clear up, it was technically "Ansem" that jabbed Maleficent with the keyblade since he overtook Riku by then.

And I know this was mentioned somewhere, but the heartless with those emblems on them, those are the heartless that "Ansem" created. Yeah, I know, there's a butt load of them, but that's what I read. So it doesn't matter if a heartless has an emblem or not; they're still heartless. Those oddly cute antenna heartless are still heartless even without emblems, right?

I'm gonna go with the theory that Maleficent didn't become a heartless. Why she didn't, I'm not sure. I agree that logically her getting her heart unlocked with Riku's keyblade would've made her a heartless like it did with Sora, but the main thing that makes me doubt she became a heartless is that 1) she comes back in KH2 as her original self, and 2) in a trailer for Birth by Sleep, we can see Aqua standing in front of Maleficent in her dragon form, so this is long before KH1, right? So she already had the ability to go into her dragon form and doesn't mean that it's her heartless form. Again, I'm assuming this is more of a continuity error though.

And it was also said in an Ansem Report that nobodies do remember their past lives. Maleficent does obviously remember what happened to her back in KH1. The only exception to this thus far is Roxas, but he's a special case ;D

Actually, branching off a bit, Oogie Boogie didn't remember what happened right away to him back in KH1 when Maleficent revived him in KH2. Maybe there's something to that as well?

I'm not sure about Scar's case. Pete wanted him to become a heartless so he could take his nobody, but you're right; where the heck was it? Unless Scar was in some weird limbo mode between heartless and nobody while Sora and co fought him *shrugs*

Also something I recently found out. Namine was also created at the same time as Roxas because apparently Kairi's heart released from Sora was what created Namine, not at the beginning of the game when her heart went into Sora o_O

As for why Sora became a heartless, I really don't know either xD

Maybe because Sora turned the keyblade on himself and wanted to release the heart it happened?
Click to expand...

I think I might be able to explain the part about Kairi's heart.
What I'm guessing (by pure speculation) is that Kairi's heart wasn't properly freed when it became part of Sora. It just...how shall I say, fused with Sora's heart up until the point where Sora frees her heart on his own.
That might be why Namine wasn't created up until that point in Hollow Bastion.
 
Here's why I think Sora became a heartless when he released sora's heart.

When he was on destiny Islands he should have become a heartless at some point (quite frankly there are a few points this could have happened at), however, because of Kairi's heart, which is the heart of pure light, being mixed with his, the darkness could overtake him, therefore, when he and Kairi were seprated, the darkness took over, then when they were together again (Kairi hugging sora's heartless,) the darkness had to back off because of Kairi's light.
 
There's a bit more discussion going on around the KH forums these days so I'm bumping this thread to provoke more discussion in to Heartless and Nobodies.

I completely forgot that I suggested Maleficent's Nobody was who we see roaming KH2...

BUMPED

DISCUSS
 
i think the reason heartless because he had nothing to draw from the darkness no power etc and he gave up his heart without fighting the darkness so he could release kairi's heart which in turn made him a heartless and for scar well he didnt turn into a heartless the normal way according to pete he turned into a heartless through jealousy and hate instead of having his heart tooken away from him it just became engulfed in darkness and unlocked his dark power
 
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