Universal Health Care

So...What do you think?

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Erythritol

Erythritol

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Okay, this is a subject about which I feel -very- strongly. I bet most people don't really care, but I'm interested in hearing everyone's opinions.

What does everyone think about universal health care? As you may know, the United States currently does not have universal health care; Europe and Canada do. There are a few politicians who are interested in implementing the universal health care system in America, and probably fashioning it out of the Canadian system.

Personally, I think universal health care fucking sucks. I have a bit of experience with it because my parents are from Quebec. To me, it's like communism-- it looks great on paper, but realistically, it doesn't work very well. While it is true that under universal health care, everyone has access to medical care, the medical care provided is sub par.

(Just as an aside: I don't think President Bush should have vetoed the health care bill that would have provided health care to working class family's children. I think that was a good bill. I'm just against universal health care that would essentially deprivatize the medical industry.)
 
I think that is pretty unfair of them agree with universal health care. Sure it's great for all but the doctors won't be as good. There is a reason why we pay so much money to doctors. (As well as insurance.) As you said before America has the best doctors.

True it does remind me a bit about communism.

Not to mention....what will happen with the issue with illegal immigrants? It's unfair that they could received it as well or somehow exploit it. Possibly sell fake health care cards as they do with social security cards.

I just hope politicians realized this.
 
If it's anything like the English NHS, I bet it blows chunks. They are actually trying to privatise everything here, meaning less people can afford good quality healthcare, and the NHS is going completely down the pan.
 
Hey, you get what you pay for... Cheap things tend to be shitty, and nothing's free.
 
As a person, who lives in Britain, I can tell you that the National Health Service, NHS, lacks greatly in quality. Far too regularly, you hear that the NHS doesn't provide this, or doesn't provide that, or isn't efficient enough when dealing with another thing. However, as I've grown up with such a health service, I take it for granted. When we were in Florida around ten years ago, my mother slipped at the poolside and fractured her elbow. The health service was so much different to the procedures and such that we have here. It IS something that is worth having, but it currently needs a lot of maintainance.
 
State Healthcare

Personally, I believe that state healthcare neccessary to a person's physical wellbeing should be a right to everyone within its jurisdiction, regardless of social-economic status. I think it should be a staple of a modern country. Small fees/national health insurance, fair enough if it reduces taxes slightly, but treatment always be provided to citizens, regardless.
The only thing I don't agree with is illegal immigrants coming to Britain to get our "free" healthcare when Britons are in long, long waiting lists already. It's not perfect, but it's fair to those who cannot afford that surgery they need, and charities cannot always pay for.
Higher taxes, true, but in a progressive and streamlined tax system, would you rather miss out on a certain percentage per month or find that you're screwed when you get an otherwise curable form of cancer that will break you one way or another?

Discuss.
 
I'll assume that no-one wants to dispute whether or not every human(except maybe horrible scum) should have the right to healthcare.
Why bother?
 
Every human should have the right to free healthcare.

I agree with what you said about how unfair it is that Immigrants come in to take advantage also.
 
I agree with what you said about how unfair it is that Immigrants come in to take advantage also
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dam those immigrants right? how dare they come along and have access to healtrhcare, an inalienable right. Espicially if these immigrants have come from third world countries, and its the British/French/Belgian or any colonial powers fault for screwing up their country. Dam equality is a load of shit right????

you're screwed when you get an otherwise curable form of cancer
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cancer isnt curable, you can keep it at bay, but it will never go away, chemo-theropy, does a hell of a lot of damage to the human body.

Personally, I believe that state healthcare neccessary to a person's physical wellbeing should be a right to everyone within its jurisdiction, regardless of social-economic status
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unfortunately it doesnt work that way, in america you get great healthcare, providing you can afford it, if you cant then too bad, that is how a market economy works.
Doctors have to be paid.

Or you can have a command economy, where all public healthcare is free like Cuba, who have great doctors.
 
Iron_Legion, I've merged your thread with the current existing one.
 
Okay, I just want to make something clear: healthcare is (at least in America) NOT a right. It is not NOT protected in the constitution anywhere. No one has a legal right to healthcare. Whether they have a moral right to healthcare...is, well, up for debate.

Now, I think the healthcare system that we have now is definitely deeply flawed and unfair. It really does need to be improved. I hate how medical insurance companies are so unbelievably greedy and allow people who cannot afford certain procedures to suffer and die. Medicine also costs way too much money. I DO actually think Canada is better than the United States in terms of availability and cost of medicine.

HOWEVER. Canada is FAR from perfect, and that's what really annoys me when people say that it's a system the United States should emulate. My family has encountered this problem: if a surgery (which the government has to pay for) is deemed to expensive, they simply say that it won't help/it's unnecessary. My uncle had a torn rotator cuff which could actually be fixed with surgery, but instead, the doctors told him that surgery was unnecessary, and all he needed to do was take pain medication for it. Not true at all. Oh, and the healthcare system there is also on the verge of going bankrupt from what I've heard.

I honestly don't know what we need to do to fix our healthcare system. I don't think anyone really does.
 
I think that the neccessary healthcare can be made affordable for everyone. People's lives and wellbeing shouldn't be forfeit because they cannot pay for the expensive treatment themselves. Whether it's nationalising the healthcare system completely, or giving everyone health insurance, any form of universal healthcare is better than being left to die or in some other way suffer due to not being able to afford the treatment, don't you agree?
And as for governments deeming treatments too expensive... they obviously aren't putting enough money into the healthcare system.
 
Here in Denmark we have universal healthcare, and I honestly could not imagine living without it. According to law you can even freely pick a hospital/doctor in any region of the country you wish, and if a public hospital cannot provide the treatment needed within reasonable time, you are free to pick a private hospital, and get your treatment paid by the state of Denmark.

I'm not sure if you could make any other country pay the price of such an effective healthcare system though. Universal healthcare in the states for example, I don't see happening without some serious tax raises, and I seriously doubt that would go down well hehe.
 
I think that the neccessary healthcare can be made affordable for everyone
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thats odd because before you were complaining about immigrants getting healthcare.
SK is right, other countries cant have universal healthcare without a significant rise in taxes, which somewhat defeats the purpose of it. Also Denmark only has around 9 million people, compared with 60 million in the UK and 300 million in the US. It simply wont work with such a lagre amount of people.

Whether it's nationalising the healthcare system completely
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do you have any idea how expensive that would be? it would cost many billions of tax payer's money, plus the government would have to subsidise the whole thing, also incredibly expensive, and bear in mind that subsidising it would not be just a one of cost.

And as for governments deeming treatments too expensive... they obviously aren't putting enough money into the healthcare system.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
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governments like everyone else has limited budgets.
 
It probably would work if you were willing to pay for it. I actually wouldn't be surprised if it would be cheaper (per citizen anyway) to cater for a larger demographic rather than a small one. It would still cost a whole lot of money though. Here in Denmark (and the rest of Scandinavia) we have the heaviest taxation in the world, and universal healthcare is definitely taking a lot of that money. Also there's only 5 millions of us :P

I think the whole matter can be boiled down to one sentence really:
Everyone wants it, but noone wants to pay for it.
 
Our NHS is pretty crappy, theres always huge waiting lists for things. Even for something as simple as getting braces fixed I had to wait 2 whole years, and they were ugly looking things aswel. I have some sort of insurance thingy with AXA not sure how it works but I know I get some stuff paid for i I need it

It's not really a topic know enough about to say everyone should get it free tbh because I know our system is pretty crappy, altho I know if it all went private alot of us would be screwed because we just wouldn't be able to afford it..... I think it's pretty shit whichever way you look at it
 
What's sad about Universal Health Care, is the fact that the Medical Industry -has- to be seen as a private dealing. It's sad when we live in a world where doctors become doctors for the money, and not for the good-natured reasoning of it.

Greed, is the reason why Universal Health Care systems would not do well in countries like America. Many brilliant surgeons and doctors only went into it for the wealth,and continue to prosper as a result. Take away the money, and they'll flee for something else.

Though, I have heard that some countries offer bonuses to doctors with good practices, where their bonus is dependent on the improving health of their patients. That, is how it should be, but unfortunately, it isn't too effective.

In America, I think the primary problem that NEEDS to be delt with, before anything else.

...Is Malpractice Insurance.
That is the biggest waste of money, in the entire world. Surgeons have to spend, often times $500,000 a YEAR for malpractice insurance. That is INSANE. People wonder why medical expenses are so expensive, even with so called insurance. [I use that word sparingly, medical insurance in the states is a joke in and of itself.] It's because of malpractice insurance. Doctor's can't afford it on their own, and so they have to spike their prices to cover for it.

It's ridiculous. This country needs to fix many more things, before they even dream of a universal health care system. Fix the malpractice issue, and fix the scam known as Medical Insurance. Then they can move onto bigger dreams.
 
Pretty much everything Contra said is what I agree with.

Presidential wise, it's Hillary hands down who has the best UHC plan.
 
Right...

I know this topic's dead and all, but it doesn't do justice leaving it at that.

I don't mean nationalising everything, but everyone should have access to the treatments that they need.

The private health sector should be allowed to flourish as well, if people want to avoid waiting lists, etc.

However, by default, all citizens should be offered state healthcare. Foreigners, no matter what they're here for, should only be offered emergency care, or otherwise left to go private~ with exceptions. I'm afraid that's how it has to be, at the moment people come from developing countries to get treatment free of charge, which has to stop, as it is putting a huge, unneccessary burden on the system. NHS= National, not International.

The US health system is backwards, and for-profit health companies rip people off to no end. Whether it's overcharging for health care, or even selling "wonder drugs" which don't actually work, it's bloody stupid. Rip-off pharmaceutical companies also exist in the UK, but they can be sorted out easily by nationalisation and/or strict regulation. Medicines should be tested thoroughly, there should be no playing dice with peoples' lives and wellbeing.

I think that UH would work in the US if it just gave it a chance. At the moment in the US, if you're severely ill with an illness which is quite expensive to treat, you're broke either way. I know the NHS sometimes refuses to treat due to expense, though sometimes that expense is purely because the treatment is new, and offered by a private company. If the company were government-run, then the treatment wouldn't need to be nearly as expensive.
 
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