[01/09] Guess what your NOT Seeing at Tokyo Game Show???

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sheechiibii said:
The thing with XIII is that is was not a success, there was nobody asking for a sequel, if they didn't plan a sequel from the start then why make one? You say it's to use the resources they already had but that doesn't convince me once bit, I think they already knew there were going to be 3 games from the very start. If it's just for resources then why does this third game sound and look like it's made from scratch? It's a totally different world and everything, if it were just to use resources, would they not continue to use them? I don't buy it. They knew there was going to be more than one XIII game, hence why we were always introduced to the XIII games as a series of games, instead of one game.
Click to expand...

They introduced XIII as part of fabula nova crystallis, a series of spin offs relating to a mythology with each their own story related. initially with a "XIII" on it, however was dropped when Agito XIII was renamed "Type-0". We just recently heard the term "Lightning Saga"

Also, there are often times when a sequel isn't asked but they make one anyways...it has nothing to do with demand of a sequel. Fans never asked for a se
 
Sheechiibii said:
My only point was that you're not looking for an ending to VII, it had an ending, you're looking for another spin off. Like I said, it's exactly the same as someone wanting another addition to FFXII - they aren't looking for an ending to XII, they're just wanting more of that world. VII is a finished game, so you saying that you'd rather they finish the story is impossible since VII's story is finished.

The thing with XIII is that is was not a success, there was nobody asking for a sequel, if they didn't plan a sequel from the start then why make one? You say it's to use the resources they already had but that doesn't convince me once bit, I think they already knew there were going to be 3 games from the very start. If it's just for resources then why does this third game sound and look like it's made from scratch? It's a totally different world and everything, if it were just to use resources, would they not continue to use them? I don't buy it. They knew there was going to be more than one XIII game, hence why we were always introduced to the XIII games as a series of games, instead of one game.
Click to expand...

you're assuming that sequels are based on demand of a sequel, not per success of the first one.

thats where you're wrong. XIII as much as i HATE to say it, was a success as much as any other film that was promoted the heck out of and makes a great box office but the difference is notmany people can return a game they dind't enjoy when its so long. PLus, in Japan, XIII is incredibly loved, it's just not loved completely worldwide.

XIII-2 looks like a full-fledge apology for XIII's lack of freedom and gameplay features. But thats where things screwed up. Because their sales were very low and they hinted for more, unlike the first one.

Also, lets look at how the information comes out and how XIII affects plans. For it has been stated that Versus can be in full development now that XIII and type-0 were released. HOwever, it was admitted the versus team had to help out on XIII-2. So obviously, plans didn't even start when that was stated.

Also the lazy story telling. LR having the features of a spin off more than an actual 3rd part of the story. And for the record, i never said it was to use resources.
 
Razberry Knight said:
you're assuming that sequels are based on demand of a sequel, not per success of the first one.

thats where you're wrong. XIII as much as i HATE to say it, was a success as much as any other film that was promoted the heck out of and makes a great box office but the difference is notmany people can return a game they dind't enjoy when its so long. PLus, in Japan, XIII is incredibly loved, it's just not loved completely worldwide.

XIII-2 looks like a full-fledge apology for XIII's lack of freedom and gameplay features. But thats where things screwed up. Because their sales were very low and they hinted for more, unlike the first one.

Also, lets look at how the information comes out and how XIII affects plans. For it has been stated that Versus can be in full development now that XIII and type-0 were released. HOwever, it was admitted the versus team had to help out on XIII-2. So obviously, plans didn't even start when that was stated.

Also the lazy story telling. LR having the features of a spin off more than an actual 3rd part of the story. And for the record, i never said it was to use resources.
Click to expand...

Sorry, it was Ohri-Jin that mentioned the resources. I'm not assuming anything about why sequels are made, they are made for lots of reasons. I just don't think there was nay reason for them to make a XIII-2 hence why I think they had already planned it. We can't know why they made it because we don't work in the company to see how it all happened. I just stated why I'm not annoyed with them over not giving us information about Versus. I don't mind because I think they've planned for this the whole time, and are teasing us to keep expectations high.

XIII wasn't a successful game imo. It depends what you see as a successful game though. Sales of XIII I would say show more about the success of their previous games than XIII itself. XIII-2 sales show a considerable drop in sales, especially when you look at how many X-2 sold, and it got bad reviews and looked girly - XIII-2 got generally good reviews and didn't manage to sell to half the people who bought XIII. That, to me, does not make XIII a success if people disliked it. You have to buy something before you'll know if you like it or not.
 
Sheechiibii said:
Redeeming XIII wouldn't have taken a direct sequel, any new FF title would have the potential to redeem XIII.
Click to expand...
Not true....they wanted to restore faith in XIII, not final fantasy overall, which is why XIV has been reworked extensively (even though it looks more like a ruse to excuse XIII).

And also, it was successfull to adegree...as much as i hate to say it. In japan, most people like it, worldwide? 60-40 or 70-30. but just enough to keep SE believing it is. and of course for SE sales are wha they consider success or failure.
 
Razberry Knight said:
Not true....they wanted to restore faith in XIII, not final fantasy overall, which is why XIV has been reworked extensively (even though it looks more like a ruse to excuse XIII).

And also, it was successfull to adegree...as much as i hate to say it. In japan, most people like it, worldwide? 60-40 or 70-30. but just enough to keep SE believing it is. and of course for SE sales are wha they consider success or failure.
Click to expand...

How do you know what they wanted to do? You can only guess, just as much as I can. Why would they want faith restored specifically to a game they're finished with and have already sold? BIB - the only helps to further my point, redeeming their mistakes in XIII didn't have to be done with a direct sequel. I don't know if I believe that about Japan liking XIII as well, all the things I've heard of from Japan about it have been negative.

For any money making company it's not just one products sales they look to for success, it's the potential to create sales again and again.
 
Sheechiibii said:
How do you know what they wanted to do? You can only guess, just as much as I can. Why would they want faith restored specifically to a game they're finished with and have already sold? BIB - the only helps to further my point, redeeming their mistakes in XIII didn't have to be done with a direct sequel. I don't know if I believe that about Japan liking XIII as well, all the things I've heard of from Japan about it have been negative.

For any money making company it's not just one products sales they look to for success, it's the potential to create sales again and again.
Click to expand...
many people have suspected it. also the story ended in XIII, but they "chose" to continue it.

again....redeeming XIII by making a XIII sequel. redeeming final fantasy as a whole can only be done by the next installment to final fantasy that isn't XIII.
 
Razberry Knight said:
many people have suspected it. also the story ended in XIII, but they "chose" to continue it.

again....redeeming XIII by making a XIII sequel. redeeming final fantasy as a whole can only be done by the next installment to final fantasy that isn't XIII.
Click to expand...

The story ended in XIII-2 as well, but didn't you say earlier that you thought they'd planned XIII-3 back then as well? People suspecting it doesn't make it any more true than my suspicions. We don't know why they made a sequel. I think they had it planned out from the start - you don't. It's not something we're likely to ever get an answer to.

As for redeeming FF, I totally dissagree, one bad game does not make a bad franchise on the whole and making XIII-2 did exactly what making a new FF title would do - it just showed they could do more than they did in XIII. That they hadn't lost it. It didn't change what XIII was as a game in any way, so could only make them look better as a company or make their FF games as a series look better, it couldn't undo what they did in XIII.
 
Sheechiibii said:
The story ended in XIII-2 as well, but didn't you say earlier that you thought they'd planned XIII-3 back then as well? People suspecting it doesn't make it any more true than my suspicions. We don't know why they made a sequel. I think they had it planned out from the start - you don't. It's not something we're likely to ever get an answer to.

As for redeeming FF, I totally dissagree, one bad game does not make a bad franchise on the whole and making XIII-2 did exactly what making a new FF title would do - it just showed they could do more than they did in XIII. That they hadn't lost it. It didn't change what XIII was as a game in any way, so could only make them look better as a company or make their FF games as a series look better, it couldn't undo what they did in XIII.
Click to expand...

They openly apologize for the least anticipated game and saying how they lost the franchise. SE knows, why cant you?

Its easy to see where im getting at just by looking at how the info came out. As for xiii-2 it hinted alot more to come. And they trademarked xiii-3 right around xiii-2. And whether they couldnt undo it or not doesnt mean they tried.
 
Razberry Knight said:
They openly apologize for the least anticipated game and saying how they lost the franchise. SE knows, why cant you?

Its easy to see where im getting at just by looking at how the info came out. As for xiii-2 it hinted alot more to come. And they trademarked xiii-3 right around xiii-2. And whether they couldnt undo it or not doesnt mean they tried.
Click to expand...

SE are the only ones who know how it actually went down. You can guess, I can guess but we don't know. I stated my reasons for why I believe they had the games planned and you've stated your reasons for why you think they weren't. Unless SE tells us how it went down, neither of us can be right or wrong, it's all just speculation. To argue otherwise isn't going to go anywhere.
 
Sheechiibii said:
SE are the only ones who know how it actually went down. You can guess, I can guess but we don't know. I stated my reasons for why I believe they had the games planned and you've stated your reasons for why you think they weren't. Unless SE tells us how it went down, neither of us can be right or wrong, it's all just speculation. To argue otherwise isn't going to go anywhere.
Click to expand...

Thats the thing. They did tell us. You can follow the chain of info on versus just to see.

You know im right on this.

Versus will forever be on hold whenever Xiii/lightning saga gets in the way. Though im happy lightning saga is at an end there really disapointment. If they trully planned it wouldnt be seeing a teaser trailer like xiii-2 did? All we got was an oil painting so most likely they werent pushing for another.

Overall the point is their info is consistent towards ff13 and vrsus. Theyre plans are muddled and lately they donthave much ground to say " all according to plan" . Versus has suffered enough. I KNOW the xiii saga is what makes a highly anticipated and according to them a stepping stone a difficult game to develop apparently being prolonged even further.
 
Razberry Knight said:
Thats the thing. They did tell us. You can follow the chain of info on versus just to see.

You know im right on this.

Versus will forever be on hold whenever Xiii/lightning saga gets in the way. Though im happy lightning saga is at an end there really disapointment. If they trully planned it wouldnt be seeing a teaser trailer like xiii-2 did? All we got was an oil painting so most likely they werent pushing for another.

Overall the point is their info is consistent towards ff13 and vrsus. Theyre plans are muddled and lately they donthave much ground to say " all according to plan" . Versus has suffered enough. I KNOW the xiii saga is what makes a highly anticipated and according to them a stepping stone a difficult game to develop apparently being prolonged even further.
Click to expand...

This is my last reply because we are going off topic a bit and we have been warned.

You think that any of that is proof that they hadn't planned these games? I know all these things too, but just because they haven't released a trailer of XIII-LR does not mean they hadn't planned to make the 3rd game. Why would it? All it means is either they're not ready to release a trailer because they're not far enough along in the development of the game or that they wanted to try something different this time. Also, as I've said before, yes they keep telling us little teasers about what's going on with Versus, but that doesn't mean they didn't plan for 3 XIII games either, I think it's far more likely they did it to keep people thinking about Versus and anticipating it's arrival.

You are free to believe what you want. But don't tell me what I know, because neither of us can say we know what's going on inside SE and trying to pretend you do doesn't make your argument any stronger.
 
Well I totally disagree with your logic as well Sheechibi and I believe Razbery Knight is pretty accurate. Its common sense imo.
Ive been following SE moves since 2006 avidly, but stopped recently because SE made some bullshit decisions.

Im fed up at this point.

You disagree with me, but even though its hard to believe Im almost 100% sure Im right lol..ofcourse I cant possibly know everything but evidence is out there like Raspberry said.


-FFXIII dev team needed help from Versus team (delaying Versus)
-Versus went only full dev in 2011 (what did they do before tht? -> FFXIII)
-Wada admitted FFXIII was not a complete success.
-Wada stated a lot of resources was left of FFXIII enough content to make 75% of a game WTF!

After FFXIII was released ONLY THEN THEY DECIDED TO MAKE FFXIII-2!

-Many people bought FFXIII and returned their copy!
-SE made bold claim they can make games faster and efficient now
-FFXIII-2 was announced.
-At conference Type-0 and Versus were basicly distanced from the Crystallis bullshit (it was at this point they decided FFXIII-2 and perhaps FF Lightning returns)

They made FFXIII-2 because they didnt want to lose the left over content. They wanted to redeem themselves.
Who in the hell wanted a sequel that much? NO ONE!

They did redeem themselves with FFXIII-2 it seems but why LR?
FFXIII-2 has less sales then FFXIII, as usual for sequel, but still LR.

They probably planned this shit yeah but not from the beginning, cause SE would be really retarded if they didnt realise VERSUS WAS THE GAME EVERYONE WANTED FROM DAY 1.

FFXIII just happened to release first. FFXIII got priority and shit went downhill after that. Thus no chance for Versus even when Wada stated after Type-0 they would work on Versus.

They continue to work on Versus but give us FFXIII crap in the meantime. They stalling.
-
 
@charliepanayi

You clearly know nothing about SE and their plans and I think THAT'S funny.

Only FFXIII delayed Versus directly and FFXIII-2 and LR are just to fill in the gap before Versus releases. FFXIII-2 and LR are infact delaying Versus indirectly because they get priority. That they have different dev teams is irrelevant.
 
I'd say it's very relevant. It is possible for a game company to work on more than one game at the same time you know. As someone said on another site, people still seem to think it's 1987 and SE are laboriously devoting everything to one game at a time.
 
charliepanayi

You still dont get it do you. Based on your logic Versus, FF13 and Type-O would have been released at the same time. You dont get the whole picture.

I dont understand why SE only started full dev in 2011. Well add up 2 years is 2013/2014.

Sooo Versus should be released next year or early 2014. If that doesnt happen what would we blame. :hmmm:

At least back up your statements with solid arguments and not your opinion cause evidence is right there lmao. I read all the articles. See my summary for referance.

Google the statements etc. If you want to be sure. Or send me some evidence to persuade me or convince me I and other ppl are wrong.

Like I said FFXIII directly delayed Versus.
FFXIII-2 and LR indirectly.

Crystallius was disbanded hence Agito got called Type0. Man SE wanted to make FFXIII, Versus and Agito.
But they chose Lightning saga.

Type0 has different dev team yet no localization?

SE has priorities so they cant release other things. For all I know all these games were fully produced already but till Lightning Saga is over only then they will release what most ppl want.

So in this case dev team is irrelevant cause SE chooses which games they release.
 
charliepanayi said:
I'd say it's very relevant. It is possible for a game company to work on more than one game at the same time you know. As someone said on another site, people still seem to think it's 1987 and SE are laboriously devoting everything to one game at a time.
Click to expand...

Like i said 1st production dev team are developing games for fabuka nova crystallis series and now merged with 5th dev team, they now also make kingdom hearts and other games.


Regardless they just announced they will prioritize LR over Versus.

The entire staff of SE are separated into teams. Knowing which team does which you can figure out who is developing asaid game.

Theres enough to know ffxiv isnt affecting versus whatsoever.

Also these arent jusr simple games. SE are making full fledge games. Sure i bet theyre working on both at the same time but do they both hold the same momentum? LR is confirmed for next year. And versus been in development over 6 years with no release date.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top