[01/09] Lightning Returns: FFXIII Makes Major Changes to the Series’ Formula, Ends Trilogy

[Sheechiibii]

FFXIII-2 wasnt tens of hours either. You could really beat the game quick if you didnt do all the extras

Beat it in less than 20 hours? That's pathetic. I didn't buy XIII-2 but that's a waste of good money imo.

 

[Thief of Hearts Joker]

Whine whine bitch and moan, seriously you guys need to either button those mouths until some Gameplay is shown or just accept that theres a 3rd final game and move on. Sorry I'm being blunt but damn almost 5 pages of people bitching about this its just plain silly.

Frankly I love the XIII universe and I don't mind getting this too, I'm mostly curious on various parts that may or may not connect the dots to my thoughts to the ending to XIII-2 and what happens to Lightning in general during this. I just wanna see this wrapped up so I'll stick to it till the end.

You don't need to love the game but this much distaste for it seems a tad overkill, I don't like the title persay or the art work shown so far but hell its just Concept art it could get changed later on.

I'm interested that Lightning got Refined, maybe she'll have more of a personality then ._. maybe be more unique than as someone put it earlier "A Cloud with Boobs".

I do wish they kept their mouth shut on the "Oh don't worry it'll end on a happy note" part, thats kinda spoiling it and hurting what fanbase is left for the game.

I figured if something like this would go on that people wouldn't age since the Timeline is all screwed to hell.

TBH I kinda like the idea of a more action oriented Combat system, they're trying to make it more unique and I'm all for that.

Lol Hope gets to talk to Light again I bet he'll be happy about that ~.~;;

Anyways I'm looking forward to this title, though alot of people don't want this to continue. ~.~ just my thoughts -waits for people to bash me with bloody instruments-

 

[kratoscar2008]

At least it seem lightning will stop being a bitch and that will help a LOT not make this game as horrible as previous XIII installments, i will give it a shot in the future (used of course) if i hear enough good things of it.

Imo Hope as the mic guy? Zasch would be a better option, thsi game gives me a bad vibe.

 

[Squid]

Whine whine bitch and moan, seriously you guys need to either button those mouths until some Gameplay is shown or just accept that theres a 3rd final game and move on. Sorry I'm being blunt but damn almost 5 pages of people bitching about this its just plain silly.

Why are you allowed to be positive about it when you've not seen any gameplay video's but no one is allowed to be negative about it? Being negative is more justified anyway seeing as FFXIII and FFXIII-2 were utter trash to 70% of the people who played it.

Either way, I think this game is going to be shit. It doesn't even seem like a final fantasy game... the only thing final fantasy about it is the fact that it has the words in the title.

 

[foevanimeboi]

kinda hoped they wouldn't told us that info and instead give us a sneak peak trailer or teaser.

as for SE revealing the happy ending... kinda already expected that now that its XIII last entry (considering it took a trilogy to carry out the story).

other than that, it all seems to be fair so far.

 

[.Mosh]

http://andriasang.com/con2l3/lightning_returns_details/



New details

The only think I really dont like is the happy ending thing. If it was to always have had a happy ending, fine, but it seems to me like they want to just because the ending of FFXIII-2 was so bleak. I felt that to be a nice change of pace. I really REALLY hate it when developers change the story because fans complain

I am a bit miffed about them revealing the type of ending, I am all for bitter sweet. And for the game being like 26 odd hours in terms of first playthrough and designed to be played multiple times. I have the feeling when the end comes and you loose. You go back with what you have and continue to build on that strength, otherwise each playthrough you will be shit again.

I like the combat system and how it sounds and the open world has to be pretty big and filled with quests etc to keep it expansive...remember you could do a lot of 'saving' the world which could put a couple of hours into that play time. It's an ending we didn't expect a bloody 70+ journey. I finished FFXIII-2 in like 50+ hours and that was me still detouring. This REQUIRING multiple playthroughs makes it seem like this will be the longer game.

 

[Lirael]

This will be Lightning's last game and will end with a happy ending. The game has just one ending.

I feel quite neutral about this. Whilst I prefer bittersweet endings, a happy ending is acceptable as long as it isn't farfetched within the story. The happy ending to XIII, for example, was a suitable ending. It was a little bittersweet, which is more realistic, but happy overall. Crossed fingers the FINAL ending to the series shares this balance.

Whether the ending is happy or sad, it has the potential to be terrible! I'll have faith that they can pull this off.


Also...someone on that site pointed out that it says 'this will be Lightning's last game,' but not the final FFXIII game. Much as I love FFXIII and would welcome a huge collection of XIII-related games, I want to find out how this ends. Series which go on for too long are frustrating. If they released a set of games next year - one for Lightning, one for Serah and Noel, one for someone else - then that would be fine. I'd buy the lot. But if they keep us hanging... I'll be a bit frustrated.

The first FFXIII was story driven, meaning that the story pulled the player along. FFXIII-2 was player driven, meaning players selected the story. Lightning Returns is World Driven, meaning players have to consider how they interact with the changing world.

Interesting. This certainly makes me feel that XIII has been a massive experiment which will inform them for future titles. I don't think this is a bad thing! Instead, I feel Toriyama is trying to get a sense of what the fans want now. He's trying to update the series by giving us a variety of game-types: linear but with a great story; more open with a more basic story; and this.

The game is meant to be played and cleared multiple times. The volume is not such that it will take many tens of hours to clear once.

I don't like the idea of this... Unless the events in the game are vastly different when you play differently, it sounds like a massive waste of time. I suppose a Skyrim-type experience in which there are many different things to see and do would be okay...but if there's an overall story with a few differences, then we're essentially being asked to proceed through the same story multiple times. I have far too many games to do that, including FFI, III, V, VI and VII! (I hope to complete IV, VIII and IX by the release date of XIII-3)

Spoiler for XIII-2...provided within the details from andriasang...

Spoiler

People from XIII-2 haven't died. Because of the effects of the chaos (I'm not sure if this is the proper English word), people have stopped aging and don't get old.

Okay, I can accept this as an explanation. What I want to know, however, is what Serah's vision was. What could possibly be so terrible? Furthermore...what is with the secret ending of XIII-2? Even if people can't age, things can change...so surely it's still possible for Yeul to die from visions? Although, it wouldn't be possible for a baby to grow, so future Yeul's would not exist.

I can see this working and am quite interested in seeing how they implement this.

Lightning is all by herself in battle, allowing you to concentrate more than when you had to control a party.

I can accept this too as long as other members of the party appear to take part in the story. Playing Lightning and just Lightning, I can accept. The concept of a story with Lightning and just Lightning - no Noel, Serah, Snow, Hope or Sahz - saddens me.

During battle, you don't select menu commands. Instead, you select abilities which have been assigned to buttons.

Fair enough. It's a new way of doing things. I can accept that. (I still think FFX's system would have been better.

Haha, seriously though, as much as I would love to see another FF with the old battle system, I can accept the changes for this game. It sounds as though it'll work and make the gameplay more dynamic. I will return to old FFs for older battle systems.

Hope will give guidance to Lightning via wireless com.

MGS anyone? Splinter Cell? Bioshock?

I suppose this is a happy medium between a sojourn and a group journey.

 

[kratoscar2008]

Now after careful read i can really laught at SE for this game:

This will be Lightning's last game and will end with a happy ending. The game has just one ending.

Oh, cool. Way to drain any dramatic tension from your narrative right out the gate. Not only does this lessen my desire to read your story since you already spoiled it; but really 'happy ending' plus 'JRPG' just screams 'Oh look, a miracle!' all over again. XP

・The first FFXIII was story driven, meaning that the story pulled the player along. FFXIII-2 was player driven, meaning players selected the story. Lightning Returns is World Driven, meaning players have to consider how they interact with the changing world.

Yeeeeah...I don't buy it. Sorry SE; you're no Bethesda. And even they don't really deliver on anything more then 'your choices don't really effect the world outside of a few kilometers beyond where X event takes place'.

・The game's in-game time works out to one day being the equivalent of one to two hours of real time. There will be increases and decreases in time.

Ephemeral Fantasia called. They want their game mechanic back.

・The game is meant to be played and cleared multiple times. The volume is not such that it will take many tens of hours to clear once.

Sooo...short, piddly narrative with pointless 'what ifs' just to place the 'false reward replay value' card on the table? You already said the game has one ending. That pretty much kills the 'I want to play this again' factor.

・Depending on your actions, the remaining life of the world could decrease, and the game could end before the 13 day limit.

So...you lied? If you have 'Bad Endings' then your game totally has more than one ending.

・There are some times when helping someone will decrease the life of the world.


・Defeating some enemies and clearing some quests will increase the life of the world.

In other words; your game mechanics cancel each other out and the whole 'worry about making choices regarding effects on the world life span' is meaningless since any dilemma is negated by the fact that I can go kill 50 brown wolves and magically the world lives another day.

・Lightning has become a considerably more refined person.

...*facepalms* Really?

・You can freely move around during battle. Some elements of the battle system are timing-based.

The 'Tales of X' series called. I think they're in EF's camp.

・The battle system is close to action. There's an ATB gauge.

Dude, you've got the wrong game. Paradoxes belong in XIII-2. Oh wait...you're being serious...

・During battle, you don't select menu commands. Instead, you select abilities which have been assigned to buttons.

So...you were too lazy to design a new battle engine so you just ripped off Kingdom Hearts?

・Hope will give guidance to Lightning via wireless com.

Nerdy scientist gives advice to action hero via sci-fi transmission system...give me a second...


Lightning? Can you hear me? Lightning!? Liiiiiiiiiiiiiiightniiiiiiing!?


...sorry. >>;

・The city has clocks everywhere showing the constant progression of time.

Ephemeral Fantasia just filed a police report over your kleptomania.

 

[Ohri-Jin]

• Final Fantasy XIII was story driven, XIII-2 was player driven, and now Lightning Returns is “World Driven,” which means that the world in constantly in motion.

In other words all these games made into one game should have been FFXIII.

• One day in the game world is equal to one or two hours in the real world.

2 hours times 13 = 26 hours. Minus cutscenes,cgi scenes and play mechanics.

• The game is designed to be played through many times.

"designed" just an excuse or to force people to play it more than once because the game might be damn short? I dont play my games more than once these days. No time and CBA. If I decide to do so it be better worth it.

• It will not take several dozens of hours to clear one volume.

Haha I figured. Like its a bad thing.

• Due to the influence of chaos, people from Final Fantasy XIII-2 have stopped aging and are still alive.

Another excuse to conveniently use existing models. Hope for you guys new people/npc's or at least different outfits.

• Novus Partus is composed of two natural terrain continents and two urban continents.

Its a bit odd imo same amount of each.

• Menu commands are not selected in battle. Rather, players assign abilities to buttons.

How many buttons are there? Isnt it a bit limited? Well I know Dragon Age has this but FF had always such a huge variation of abilities to choose from. This sounds like its another way of excluding a lot of shit.

• The battle system is nearing an action battle system. The ATB gauge still exists.

No idea how this would pan out, but ACTION doesnt make me think SE can nail it.

• Because Lightning is the sole party member, players can have greater focus in battle.

So in FFXIII-2 only 2 partymembers and to fill in the third gap lame monster system, now only Lightning. Shit SE cant do anything right anymore can they?

• Lightning has become considerably more lovely.

Like that is all that important

• The world could end before the 13 day limit, thus resulting in a “Game Over,” depending on your actions.

I like to take my time when playing games. Actually I love grinding personally and constantly having the feeling to rush and having a timer harrassing me is utter nonsense.

• Defeating enemies and clearing quests will increase the world’s life expectancy.

Makes sense.

• At the same time, helping certain people could decrease the world’s life expectancy.

Sounds interesting to be honest.

• Lightning will come across serial murders in the city.

Seems a bit odd. This is unique. First time I heard about serial killers in a FF I think.

• There are many clocks around the city showing the always moving progression of time.

Harrassing me!

• Hope will provide Lightning directions via a communications device.

This will probably be badly executed.



This is not a FF.

 

[Starships]

I know this may sound a bit weird but isn't everybody being a tad mean towards this game just because it's Final Fantasy XIII ? I mean look at Crisis Core.

Zack Fair is the only playable character, there's no other characters in battle, just like this game will be. Yeah it's going to have some Metal Gear Solid like mechanics but it's still going to have the JRPG battle format somewhat.

I don't see how Crisis Core gets away with bashing when it sounds like the same format as this game. Crisis Core pleased and sold tons of copies and got 10/ 10 prefect scores and made most fans happy. But Lightning Returns that has the same format isn't a " Final Fantasy game " ?

It sounds a bit.. hypocritical..

Imo this is just a spin off like game like DoC and Crisis Core and it's not going to affect the Final Fantasy formula too much. Nobody went " OMG Final Fantasy is turning into Doom and Splinter Cell; the franchise is doomed " ! When DoC came out. This is just a game dedicated towards who have enjoyed the Final Fantasy XIII games. We don't have to buy it and hopefully it won't affect the usual Final Fantasy formula. It's just another Crisis Core; expect with Claire Farron instead of Zack Fair.

Plus like somebody else mentioned this is the last game with LIGHTNING; they didn't say it was going to be the last Final Fantasy 13 game. Yes SE WILL milk it more.​

 

[charliepanayi]

'This is not a FF'? Why?

 

[Thief of Hearts Joker]

I know this may sound a bit weird but isn't everybody being a tad mean towards this game just because it's Final Fantasy XIII ? I mean look at Crisis Core.

Zack Fair is the only playable character, there's no other characters in battle, just like this game will be. Yeah it's going to have some Metal Gear Solid like mechanics but it's still going to have the JRPG battle format somewhat.

I don't see how Crisis Core gets away with bashing when it sounds like the same format as this game. Crisis Core pleased and sold tons of copies and got 10/ 10 prefect scores and made most fans happy. But Lightning Returns that has the same format isn't a " Final Fantasy game " ?

It sounds a bit.. hypocritical..

Imo this is just a spin off like game like DoC and Crisis Core and it's not going to affect the Final Fantasy formula too much. Nobody went " OMG Final Fantasy is turning into Doom and Splinter Cell; the franchise is doomed " ! When DoC came out. This is just a game dedicated towards who have enjoyed the Final Fantasy XIII games. We don't have to buy it and hopefully it won't affect the usual Final Fantasy formula. It's just another Crisis Core; expect with Claire Farron instead of Zack Fair.

Plus like somebody else mentioned this is the last game with LIGHTNING; they didn't say it was going to be the last Final Fantasy 13 game. Yes SE WILL milk it more.​

^ This here, and Crisis core would be a good example of it, I mean I had no real love for Zack or FF7 in general but I loved Crisis Core cause of the Storyline & Battle system in it, it was unique and actually fun and I even got a walk down some parts I didn't understand from 7 ((such as cloud and zacks relationship which this helped explain better to me)).

Tbh I think this could be another type of CC just on a PS3 and in the XIII universe and thats not a bad thing regardless, Hell XIII-2 was a great game and they improved alot in it what makes you all think they're going to just screw the pooch on this.

I also agree that its probably a spin off like DoC and Crisis Core, well at least Lightnings boobs will feel less sore from all the milking on her part now lol.

but anyways of all the games in the FF universe 7 was the most milked out just to expand the storyline/fanfare, so now XIII is getting some love. You don't have to buy it, but give it a chance before jumping on the hate wagon >.>

 

[Linnaete]

Oh, delightful! New details! Let's pick them apart!

The game is currently 30% complete

LOUD alarm bells have gone off. If production only started recently and we're there at 30% already, with a target of a release date for next year, that tells me all I need to know. A potential rush job.

This will be Lightning's last game and will end with a happy ending. The game has just one ending.

Oh, well! Thanks for telling us. It's like in Ultima IX: Ascension when the tapestry just tells you early on what would happen to the Avatar at the end. Except this time the tapestry is a Japanese magazine that likes its spoilers to be let out a wee bit too early. Well, if this means Toriyama can't change his mind all of a sudden and end on another cliffhanger, we can keep these words for posterity.

Lightning Returns is World Driven, meaning players have to consider how they interact with the changing world.

I don't care what anyone says. This sounds way too ambitious considering the development time window they have. I mean, even if they rope in Tri-Ace for this again, it still sounds too ambitious. And again, great idea on paper (and so were Skyrim and Guild Wars 2!), but will it translate well in the game? That is what counts.

The game is meant to be played and cleared multiple times. The volume is not such that it will take many tens of hours to clear once.

In other words, this will essentially be a short game as the time limit will most definitely limit how thorough you can be. If you missed all that in your first go, don't worry, chap - you can start the game over again with your stuff already there! Or at least, that is what it sounds like, and that it's not making the player play through yet again with very little different. That would essentially be tricking the player into thinking that full price they just spent on the game was worth it. If it's the latter, why bother, if there's theoretically only one or two endings?

God, I hate that sort of game design. On its own, one playthrough lacks enough substance, that the developers plead for you to play through it again, to artificially squeeze worth out of your money.

People from XIII-2 haven't died. Because of the effects of the chaos (I'm not sure if this is the proper English word), people have stopped aging and don't get old.

Yup, that's the sound of the drama, the bleakness and the sheer gravity of the FFXIII-2 cliffhanger ending thrown out the window. End of the world? Nah, it's alright. Everyone's still kind of alive, will live a damn long time and will return again centuries in some shape or form. It really ruins your ending when you learn that it's not that much of an apocalypse then, is it?

And let me guess? No time = your foetus can't actually grow, so there isn't an overpopulation problem?

Hope will give guidance to Lightning via wireless com.

But first, you need to befriend him on Facebook!

I don't see how Crisis Core gets away with bashing when it sounds like the same format as this game. Crisis Core pleased and sold tons of copies and got 10/ 10 prefect scores and made most fans happy. But Lightning Returns that has the same format isn't a " Final Fantasy game " ?

This.

Crisis Core isn't even what one can call a spinoff, but rather chronologically a direct prequel to a flagship title, while Lightning Returns is one of two direct sequels. If the former is just some obscure handheld spinoff, then I can certainly understand why people would have no problem with it being different, but then, why slate Lightning Returns for being something different? Is it because it's a console game, and that somehow means it has to conform to a particular mould, and the lowly PSP Crisis Core game didn't have to?

Well, I don't know about you, but not conforming to the tried-and-tested mould is usually what keeps me intrigued, and though this game just sounds like a mishmash of various games and concepts that have come before it, I would simply dismiss it after 2 minutes if it's simply FFXIII and FFXIII-2 all over again, but with slightly different wallpapers.

 

[Ohri-Jin]

Well to me I do take in consideration wether a title is on handheld or console. Otherwise I would have bought a handheld which I have never done.

Crisis Core was a huge hit, but why couldnt they release FFXIII-2 or FFXIII-3 on a handheld instead then? These sequels on Consoles are too much imo.

FFVII does not have a sequel or prequel on ps3. If you make a sequel or prequel for console it should be way more substance than on handhelds. FFXIII is three discs on Xbox and the sequel one disc. Well downscaling graphics alone cant make a difference like tht I bet its just not tht substantial in elements.

Catering to xbox owners seems to downscale the quality. Halfbaked games should stay away from console.

Just my opinion

This is a spinoff that should have been on handheld or novel or cgi movie. Or at least after Versus.
If the negatives outweighs the positive It fails.

Good luck with the sales SE at this point I really wish it will flop as hell and you wont even be able to avoid bankruptcy thanks to low net income and loss revenue because of FFXIV. Versus deserves the killshot. Versus is like a deer hit by a truck slowly dying but no one has the balls to give it bullet through the head.

Shoot I forgot about Tombraider and Hitman.. Hmmm those might save your asses SE.



Also Zack major populair Character and he was a NPC. Vincent major character. Yuna major popular. Was Serah that popular in FFXIII?

 

[Ohri-Jin]

Well to me I do take in consideration wether a title is on handheld or console. Otherwise I would have bought a handheld which I have never done.

Crisis Core was a huge hit, but why couldnt they release FFXIII-2 or FFXIII-3 on a handheld instead then? These sequels on Consoles are too much imo.

FFVII does not have a sequel or prequel on ps3. If you make a sequel or prequel for console it should be way more substance than on handhelds. FFXIII is three discs on Xbox and the sequel one disc. Well downscaling graphics alone cant make a difference like tht I bet its just not tht substantial in elements.

Catering to xbox owners seems to downscale the quality. Halfbaked games should stay away from console.

Just my opinion

This is a spinoff that should have been on handheld or novel or cgi movie. Or at least after Versus.
If the negatives outweighs the positive It fails.

Good luck with the sales SE at this point I really wish it will flop as hell and you wont even be able to avoid bankruptcy thanks to low net income and loss revenue because of FFXIV. Versus deserves the killshot. Versus is like a deer hit by a truck slowly dying but no one has the balls to give it bullet through the head.

Shoot I forgot about Tombraider and Hitman.. Hmmm those might save your asses SE.

 

[Abstract Debauchery]

(and so were Skyrim and Guild Wars 2!)

Wait, wat? I agree with you on the Skyrim thing. The only reason I still play that anymore is because the modding community for it is damned amazing. However, what went wrong with GW2 for you? It's got a good story (nothing great, but certainly not horrible), combat is dynamic, fluid, responsive, and fun. My only real complaints with the game are the few bugs it has (but those are being fixed) the TP being down often, and the fact that the "dynamic events" aren't very dynamic. However, they're still fun, you can't quite set your watch by them, but the fact that leveling doesn't seem like a chore is fantastic. It's not MMORPG 2.0, but it' sitting close at MMORPG 1.7.6 in my opinion.

What's your take on it?

Also, to keep things on topic, SE seems like they're trying anything to stay on top. To be honest, buying up Edios was one of the best moves they've made. That way, they can legally eat up credit for good games they technically aren't making. Think about it, Sleeping Dogs, Deus Ex: Human Revolution, and now Hitman are all games being made by Edios who are now technically Square Enix.

Come on, Square Enix, pull your damn heads out of your asses. Let Level 5 make a damn Dragon Quest game that isn't online again, make another game to the Chrono series, tell your character design people to cut it the fuck out with belts and zippers, get to working on Versus, and figure out how many metric shit tons of acid you fucks hit when you shat out FFXIII in the first place.

Also, why the fuck do people keep dick riding on Tri-Ace? The Star Ocean series is repetitive as fuck, and the stories of the series are really... not good. (SO2 and SO3 being exceptions, but even SO3 was really fucking pushing it.) They're really not all that great. Better than the bullshit SE is churning out, but nothing I would pay full price for.

 

[Linnaete]

Wait, wat? I agree with you on the Skyrim thing. The only reason I still play that anymore is because the modding community for it is damned amazing. However, what went wrong with GW2 for you? It's got a good story (nothing great, but certainly not horrible), combat is dynamic, fluid, responsive, and fun. My only real complaints with the game are the few bugs it has (but those are being fixed) the TP being down often, and the fact that the "dynamic events" aren't very dynamic. However, they're still fun, you can't quite set your watch by them, but the fact that leveling doesn't seem like a chore is fantastic. It's not MMORPG 2.0, but it' sitting close at MMORPG 1.7.6 in my opinion.

What's your take on it?

Ah, apologies. I worded it really badly there. I've not actually touched Guild Wars 2 - just pointing out that it was also attempting something a bit more world driven, if I understood the "dynamic events" correctly (as vaguely as I glanced over the information pertaining to them). I can see how in the post it might come across as me slating Skyrim and GW2, but no, I wasn't. LR: FFXIII however, way too ambitious for what it is. I doubt it will end too well.

I definitely agree that there is a weird dichotomy going on in Square. They are a fantastic publisher, particularly with the output from their Eidos arms (love Sleeping Dogs, Deus Ex, Just Cause 2, etc.), yet at the same time, almost chaotic, clueless, oblivious, inefficient and dare I say, out of their minds thanks to the other side of the company. It's somewhat of a phenomenon.

And Tri-Ace lost my favour when they churned out Star Ocean 4. It has to be one of the worst written games of this generation in my opinion, with the worst cast of characters ever conceived by man. However, not even they deserve to be doing chores for Square-Enix (if they are working on this game too). =/

 

[Abstract Debauchery]

Ah, okay. GW2 is very world driven... if one wants it to be. If you want to level up and go around the world doing amazing things, you can. The option is there. If you want to just go on with your personal story and level up that way, fucking fantastic, you can do that too. Basically, you can level up just about any way you want. There's no restrictions in how you play. Hell, if you want to do nothing but craft all day, fuck it, do it. You'll level up that way as well.

 

[Squid]

I'm really annoyed they gave away the ending to this FFXIII-3 game by saying it's a happy ending
shut your fucking spoiler mouth. Some people want to play the game and see what happens without having any kind of idea of it. Why don't they just tell us frame for frame what happens? They might as well...not that I'll play the game coz I wont but I think it's pretty dodgy of them to give away what kind of ending it will be...

 

[charliepanayi]

Reading one of the above posts, wishing bankruptcy on a company is pretty horrible. Is this what people are reduced to?