[17/08] Naoki Yoshida: Regaining the trust of Final Fantasy fans will take a “long time”

[C i d]

Perhaps the greatest mind over at Square Enix right now is Final Fantasy XIV’s producer/director Naoki Yoshida, and it’s easy to see why.


Speaking in an interview with Eurogamer, the humble creator took the time to touch upon some sensitive subjects. More specifically, the visible damage done to the Final Fantasy brand itself.


“Losing your fans’ trust is very easy thing to do. Regaining it is very hard,” Yoshida said. “We believe Final Fantasy XIV is a starting point, and that players joining us will think ‘oh wow, this is great, I’ll see what they can do with Final Fantasy XV or XVI.’ Over a long time we’ll try and regain their trust, but it is something we as a company must put effort into, long-term.”


“That doesn’t mean we’re not going to try to get people’s trust back with this one game,” he added.


Source: Novacrystallis

 

[Naoto Shirogane]

“We believe Final Fantasy XIV is a starting point, and that players joining us will think ‘oh wow, this is great, I’ll see what they can do with Final Fantasy XV or XVI.’

I'm sorry for the Gif but...really? While I have no opinion on XIV as of now, final Fantasy is not known for their MMO's. This will only serve to please one quarter of your demographic and cause the rest to bugger off some place. What you really need, Is a good CONSOLE game. But no, you have to completely ignore the Bread and Butter of the FF series and ask for our forgiveness.

Get real.

“That doesn’t mean we’re not going to try to get people’s trust back with this one game,” he added.

I don't see anything else of interest floating around SE. Remasters aren't going to pull everyone back. Better get on that, don't you think?

 

[PhoenyxAngel]

^Truth.

Even if they do improve FFXIV, how many of us are actually going to play it to enjoy the changes? A good portion of FF fans are not really into MMO's so wouldn't it be better to gain the trust of the fans by giving us something we'll all play? Like, you know, maybe Versus?

I hate to constantly bring that game up but I think THAT would be the best way to bring fans back to the fold. FFXHD? While I am personally excited (as a FFX fan), it's still unnecessary. FFXIII-3? Even more unnecessary. A second MMO instead of a console single player game (FFXIV)? Not wanted. Messing it up once and having to start all over again with a new version? Really not wanted.

Maybe if you stick to the things FF fans actually WANT, then maybe you'll regain the respect of the fans. Until then you're going to continue to lose fans.

 

[.Mosh]

I like that he and the company have acknowledged the fact they have lost the trust of the fan base and believe it is no easy task. I believe it is a step forward for a company to acknowledge that, if they hadn't they maybe would have left FFXIV to die slowly (There are people out there, that love MMO's and FFXI sold well as well) Instead they are rebuilding the game from scratch listening to fan feedback and giving you a better product cause they don't want to tarnish the franchise.

They done this with FFXIII-2, the story could be more convoluted to some people which I do respect, but they listened to feedback and game more places to go, more freedom, a more fluid battle system (Even though they took back a step by having monsters there). I believe it is a start of seeing some great installments from them, we know we'll get the impending FFXIII-3 but who knows that could end up being the best one out of the lot.

We now also know that FFVXIII is still in development and whenever that releases could be the salvation of S-E or the doom of them. Only time will tell, but these acknowledgements from them, to me is a step in the right direction.

 

[Starships]

It's epic that they've realized that they're not up to their usual standard when it comes to games and Final Fantasy games; though fans are not going to wait for a long time because they want their usual Final Fantasy games back and games that feel like a Final Fantasy game and not something that's half-par or just downright terrible.

We have already been waiting a long time for the Final Fantasy franchise to improve since about 2004 or maybe even earlier than that for some, if you didn't enjoy Final Fantasy X then you have been waiting since 2001 which was a very long, long, long time ago. To wait a another decade is crazy.

More and more fans seem to be jumping to the Persona and Tales fandom while SquareEnix is making online games that very few have interest in. If Final Fantasy 15 comes out looking like crap, then I'm sorry SquareEnix it's been a nice ten years or whatever, but ... bye.

 

[Shaissa]

Isn't he also the one that said "FFXIV just can't fail, cause no main FF game ever failed"

But heres what you do, make FFXV like you did X and before dont give us 1000000000000000000 stupid DLC's (prefer none) and make a game that a fan would really wanna play again...

Square I know you still have the people, you can still make games like you use to, don't need to go along with BioWare and try to westernize your FF games, just make them like you would in Japan... Common now

 

[Linnaete]

Factor in also the current climate. When Final Fantasy was in its prime, the Japanese game industry was the dominant beast, spewing out all sorts of creative titles with charm and character, while western games still remained relatively PC-focused until the advent of the Xbox when the PC-orientated climate started to shift in favour of consoles as western developers began lending their strength to consoles. The climate is totally different now, and this isn't helped by unfavourable media stories and online discussions that develop this persisting stigma against, well, anything remotely very Japanese in flavour now. Anime designs, characters and tropes are often looked upon with disdain, while talk persists of the Final Fantasy fanbase having "grown up" since the PS1 and perhaps PS2 days.

Truth is, outside of the niche community, and figuratively speaking, Final Fantasy represents the paragon - almost like the avatar if you will - of the JRPG, so the current state of Final Fantasy to your average person here seems symbiotic to the state of the JRPG. If Final Fantasy is commonly seen to be shit nowadays and carry all sorts of negative connotations, so will your average Joe's perception of the JRPG. So if Final Fantasy "sucks", says Mr. Joe, all JRPGs suck now. It doesn't matter if Atlus comes out with something brilliant, like Persona 5. Mr. Joe, having spent time reading about how the Japanese game industry is dying, the JRPG sucks now, and anime in games is baaaaad, he will probably not even bother giving Persona 5 even a 5-second glance in his local Gamestop. Sure, the best you can do is be like Dark Souls and earn a dedicated cult following, but I still see that as being part of the niche.

So how does that relate to anything? Well, if Square-Enix JAPAN wants to be very relevant anymore (outside of the usual derogatory comments towards their audacious intent on announcing yet another FFXIII game, as much as I enjoy making these derogatory comments!), they must demonstrate the ability to be a genre leader again, rather than play catch up or be a shadow of developers like Monolith and Atlus - or heck, even Capcom. At the rate they are going, Final Fantasy will doom itself to be an unpleasant sort of niche itself. You show the FFXIII-2 trailer to Mr. Joe. Chances are, it won't WOW him. It didn't wow me either, because my personal feelings towards FFXIII aside, FFXIII-2 looks like it had few creative visions and passion put into it. It, like the FIRST FFXIV, simply look like a series of business meetings on the 40th floor of SE headquarters where the head honcho holds up a schedule calendar and order the executive producers and directors to whip up something before the latest World of Warcraft expansion pack hits the market! Here's a checklist. Tick off the things that the fans wanted.

No. That shouldn't be how you make a game because otherwise it's just cynical cash-grabbing. FFXIV 1.0 really feels like one massive cynical cash-grab (I've no first hand experience with it, mind you). I remain convinced now that they were rushing it out before WoW's Cataclysm, unaware at the same time that the MMO market is a totally different beast. You aren't going to get scores of WoW players rushing over, leaving a scarring exodus that will make Blizzard cry. It's encouraging to see something REALISTIC being said from Yoshi-P. You aren't ever going to get WoW's numbers. Or Guild Wars 2 in popularity. The best you can do now is to wow the potential customers out there, demonstrate that you have put as much of your creative vision as you could into this new version, market the shit out of it so you really get across to them that this has been a fresh start after a sobering kick in the nuts, and maybe then you can at least garner a healthy subscription base. Sure, it won't be very large, because the P2P MMO model has been suffering, and there's like a ton of MMOs out there that haven't had bad publicity...

For the offline games, I have my personal preference. I'm not one of those "JUST MAKE IT LIKE THE OLD GAMES! WITH MATERIA! TURN-BASED BATTLES! FUCK YEAH!" people, because I do want innovation and for the genre to at least make a baby step forward. Why return to a familiar norm when Final Fantasy can try to be a genre leader again and build a temporary new norm and bar for other players in the JRPG sandbox? However, this will be where different ideas clash. I would preferably want to see it grow up a bit. What do I mean by that? I mean actually make characters more relatable, so they're more like actual people than walking anime tropes that spout about how great friendship is or how their life sucks because they couldn't protect people's smiles. If you're writing dialogue, at least make sure you've spoken to a real life human being in the last 6 months or so, so you're not some Japanese George Lucas writing your main character talking about the coarseness of sand to his rather hollow girlfriend.

I don't think they can ever have a nigh-consensual fanbase anymore. There will always be people who actively hate your new game, and their opinions are more widely available to see/challenge/accept with such a heavy media presence that's become far more ubiquitous than ever. I want an evolution of FFXII, but I understand there are people who would rather catch smallpox than have that. At the very least, make it a game where even your heaviest detractors can see glowing merits of, and understand the creative passion gone into it (and no, I don't mean fancy and expensive CGI cutscenes showing so many awesome things the player could be doing). With people like Toriyama at the helm and the state of Square-Enix now, I doubt they can even do that anytime too soon. And I know people like Nomura, but that guy's been busy also trying to chase the ghosts of FFVII, and this creative wisdom has become - shall we say - stagnant now. It's time for fresh blood I say, and people like Yoshi-P heading future offline FF projects could be interesting to see...hopefully.

 

[Nightfade]

SE has has a lot to do, if they're going to ever reclaim their reputation. If XIV v2.0 is actually successful, then that's barely a start. (Versus would definitely place some faith back into the community, I think.)

My current issues with them are: 1) The constant need to be westernized. 2) Either rushed development times, or excessively prolonged one. (Again, Versus here.) 3) Absence of creativity concerning the current plots of their titles. We knew Square, back when they were Squaresoft, as a/the leading giant of RPGs. Whatever they did had worked for everyone, I'd say.

Anyway, they need to change, and that's a given. I wouldn't say they need to head "back to the basics", per se, but their current setup isn't cutting it.

 

[kratoscar2008]

If FFXIII-3 comes to be true then i dont buy this guy quote, Fire Wada first and then we can talk.

When FFXV is released we will know if the FF reputation can be earned back, as FFvsXIII is a the tittle say an opposite of FFXIII wich means that whatever thing work on it, it wont be in a main FF tittle.

 

[Nocturne]

I just think it's sort of sad that one, maybe two games werent received well and they have to talk about gaining trust back. The majority of their games over 25 years have been phenomenal and now two games break them? I'd say it says more about videogame fans than the company themselves.

 

[kratoscar2008]

I just think it's sort of sad that one, maybe two games werent received well and they have to talk about gaining trust back. The majority of their games over 25 years have been phenomenal and now two games break them? I'd say it says more about videogame fans than the company themselves.

As mitsuki said more people think that after FFX the series has go downhill so it has been 10 years of bad and average games in SE repertoire while they use ports to maintain afloat.

Before the FF name had fans that praised all their entries from FF1 to X you can see that most people loved every entry with so few of them disliked them, but after FFX-2 began the dark era of the franchise were now you had a bigger fanbase split when it came to decide if the game was goo or bad. That for the FF name is VERY bad.

i like that SE acknowledge that they had lost the touch on the franchise but as long as Wada is there the hope is very dim.

 

[Linnaete]

I just think it's sort of sad that one, maybe two games werent received well and they have to talk about gaining trust back. The majority of their games over 25 years have been phenomenal and now two games break them? I'd say it says more about videogame fans than the company themselves.

Indeed, and when have these erroneous decisions and allegedly below par games shown up? That's right. This current generation. It has been this generation when things started to crash down around Square-Enix, and they know full well that it has. The only real thing I can blame the fans for are their fickleness and inability to know what the hell they want, which leads to the inevitability that you just can't fucking please them. And this is why I don't believe a company should just listen to fans' feedback and let that dictate their direction.

Fans still have more than a legitimate excuse and reason to withdraw their trust in Square-Enix. Unless someone manages to be a number 1 Toriyama fan, or just has extremely relaxed standards, I cannot see who can sit with a straight face and say that there is nothing wrong with the current state of the company (or what the company was like over the last 6-7 years or so), that Square-Enix shouldn't answer the fiery calls for redemption and that fans should just shut the hell up and wave their wallets around instead. Of course, I'm not saying you do think like that, but I have noticed these sort of sentiments on various sites.

And I'm not even on about the subjective "FFXIII is the biggest pile of donkey excrement I have ever had the misfortune of trodding on" stuff, but their business decisions and ability to adapt to this generation. I just don't know who greenlit FFXIV's disastrous launch as it was and believe that it would be a good idea to rush that out at the state the game was in. Then you have the haphazardly chaotic development of FFXIII itself, the baffling decision to ignore Type-0, the sheer inefficiencies during game development that just points to an out-of-date staff and teams structure, the sobering happenstance that were it not for Eidos and their western branches, Square-Enix would be barely breathing even with life support (and if FFXIII-3 will indeed be announced by next month, it screams knee-jerk short-term solution more than anything).

If no lessons are learnt and they carry on over to the next generation as they were only a couple of years ago, they may as well fire their development teams and just become a publisher...

 

[Rydrum2112]

Fleur- I agree with what you said except the first comment about the fans, and I am not saying I disagree. I think it is universal that every fan wants the plots & stories to be better than what we have been getting. And for better characters (main or supporting).

I think that is a good starting point for getting the "trust" back, and I do realize that the gameplay decisions that are made will cause certain groups of fans to be upset (active vs turn based etc). But I think most people can look past that if the story & characters are great. One thing I hate is the 3 limit party size in some of the games, yet I think 7 & 10 are awesome.

 

[Ohri-Jin]

From day one I was more interested in Versus. Gritty plus KH battle system is ace in my book. From day one I researched every next gen FF title and analysed them enough to base my opinions of them. What killed it for me was the fact that FFXIII had no substance, no soul and all the tiny ingredients that makes it a true FF title. I never played the actual game to be honest, but I researched enough. I heard it had no real npc's or barely. It has no market or merchants. It has not a lot of towns conveniently as part of the story. Battlesystem could be done with one button and you cant switch leader. Later on ppl were bitching about the story and I was like you know what I'll skip this game and wait for Versus. FFIV was a huge mmo which sparked me because I used to love mmo's in the past and a good FFmmo was interesting to me. Dont have a hightech pc so waiting for PS3 version. When it first released it was a massive copy pasted game with a battle system that actually penalises loyal players. Two seperate teams for Versus & FFXIII. Then SE decided to get half of Versus team to aid FFXIII ( thus stalling Versus development time) . They had a lot of material left from FFXIII ( should say something ) so they decided to use tht for FFXIII-2 ( another distraction for Versus imo) Because they had lots of material FFXIII-2 could be developed and released within two years. Judging SE has always taken several more years for older titles shouldnt that have been a sign as well? FFXIII sold well because first installment on next gen consoles. Tons of ppl were disappointed so they returned it for refunds. Fact or fiction ? SE saw fit to release a sequel nonetheless .... Even Wada admitted FFXIII should have been better and wasnt a success yet successful enough to spew out a sequel ? WTF. Now im here as an oldskool FF fan which hasnt played a single FF title on the ps3. Waiting for more than 6 years for Versus. Not hearing when Type-0 will be localised. Having to skip FFXIII. Playing FFXIII-2 demo which made me cringe cause the only thing I liked about it was the sexy chocobo girl which looked more like a phoenix than actual chocobo. SE spewing out tons of projects for phones,pads and internet. As a fan I want SE to make games with soul. Ingredients and details tht make FF final fantasy. For reference check my blog. Until then I wont buy mediocre shit just because it has a FF stamp on it. As a fan I want SE to strive for the best...well at least better. SUBSTANCE over LOOKS. On this path I cant see SE regaining my trust. Versus went full development in 2011. Before tht they didnt do shit for it thanks to FFXIII, its sequel and all other bullshit projects. KH3 where is it? I wont be a sheep tht buys their mediocre crap. Also how content were we with a single FF back in the day? These days we need to have FFXIII-2 to fill FFXIII's gaps, but wait to fill FFXIII-2's gaps we need DLC. Oh wait still not enough FFXIII-3 .... -___- are they really expanding or totally useless ? I have no idea but I wont try to find out.

 

[lugiaXDG009er]

From day one I was more interested in Versus. Gritty plus KH battle system is ace in my book. From day one I researched every next gen FF title and analysed them enough to base my opinions of them. What killed it for me was the fact that FFXIII had no substance, no soul and all the tiny ingredients that makes it a true FF title. I never played the actual game to be honest, but I researched enough. I heard it had no real npc's or barely. It has no market or merchants. It has not a lot of towns conveniently as part of the story. Battlesystem could be done with one button and you cant switch leader. Later on ppl were bitching about the story and I was like you know what I'll skip this game and wait for Versus. FFIV was a huge mmo which sparked me because I used to love mmo's in the past and a good FFmmo was interesting to me. Dont have a hightech pc so waiting for PS3 version. When it first released it was a massive copy pasted game with a battle system that actually penalises loyal players. Two seperate teams for Versus & FFXIII. Then SE decided to get half of Versus team to aid FFXIII ( thus stalling Versus development time) . They had a lot of material left from FFXIII ( should say something ) so they decided to use tht for FFXIII-2 ( another distraction for Versus imo) Because they had lots of material FFXIII-2 could be developed and released within two years. Judging SE has always taken several more years for older titles shouldnt that have been a sign as well? FFXIII sold well because first installment on next gen consoles. Tons of ppl were disappointed so they returned it for refunds. Fact or fiction ? SE saw fit to release a sequel nonetheless .... Even Wada admitted FFXIII should have been better and wasnt a success yet successful enough to spew out a sequel ? WTF. Now im here as an oldskool FF fan which hasnt played a single FF title on the ps3. Waiting for more than 6 years for Versus. Not hearing when Type-0 will be localised. Having to skip FFXIII. Playing FFXIII-2 demo which made me cringe cause the only thing I liked about it was the sexy chocobo girl which looked more like a phoenix than actual chocobo. SE spewing out tons of projects for phones,pads and internet. As a fan I want SE to make games with soul. Ingredients and details tht make FF final fantasy. For reference check my blog. Until then I wont buy mediocre shit just because it has a FF stamp on it. As a fan I want SE to strive for the best...well at least better. SUBSTANCE over LOOKS. On this path I cant see SE regaining my trust. Versus went full development in 2011. Before tht they didnt do shit for it thanks to FFXIII, its sequel and all other bullshit projects. KH3 where is it? I wont be a sheep tht buys their mediocre crap. Also how content were we with a single FF back in the day? These days we need to have FFXIII-2 to fill FFXIII's gaps, but wait to fill FFXIII-2's gaps we need DLC. Oh wait still not enough FFXIII-3 .... -___- are they really expanding or totally useless ? I have no idea but I wont try to find out.

To answer your question on kh3 the development was basically put on hold so that pretty much the whole kh dev team could go help work on versus so it's probably gonna be even better considering the kh team has a huge hand in it.
Kh3 will continue development after versus is complete(obviously) so expect kh 3 in either late 2013 or anytime in 2014

 

[Nocturne]

Indeed, and when have these erroneous decisions and allegedly below par games shown up? That's right. This current generation. It has been this generation when things started to crash down around Square-Enix, and they know full well that it has. The only real thing I can blame the fans for are their fickleness and inability to know what the hell they want, which leads to the inevitability that you just can't fucking please them. And this is why I don't believe a company should just listen to fans' feedback and let that dictate their direction.

Fans still have more than a legitimate excuse and reason to withdraw their trust in Square-Enix. Unless someone manages to be a number 1 Toriyama fan, or just has extremely relaxed standards, I cannot see who can sit with a straight face and say that there is nothing wrong with the current state of the company (or what the company was like over the last 6-7 years or so), that Square-Enix shouldn't answer the fiery calls for redemption and that fans should just shut the hell up and wave their wallets around instead. Of course, I'm not saying you do think like that, but I have noticed these sort of sentiments on various sites.

And I'm not even on about the subjective "FFXIII is the biggest pile of donkey excrement I have ever had the misfortune of trodding on" stuff, but their business decisions and ability to adapt to this generation. I just don't know who greenlit FFXIV's disastrous launch as it was and believe that it would be a good idea to rush that out at the state the game was in. Then you have the haphazardly chaotic development of FFXIII itself, the baffling decision to ignore Type-0, the sheer inefficiencies during game development that just points to an out-of-date staff and teams structure, the sobering happenstance that were it not for Eidos and their western branches, Square-Enix would be barely breathing even with life support (and if FFXIII-3 will indeed be announced by next month, it screams knee-jerk short-term solution more than anything).

If no lessons are learnt and they carry on over to the next generation as they were only a couple of years ago, they may as well fire their development teams and just become a publisher...

Thing is though is that SE is more than just Final Fantasy. I mean seriously, their handheld (PSP and DS) library were phenomenal this whole gen. Then with Nier (though it sold terribly), Deus Ex, etc, they had some good hits. They havent been great console wise, but they havent been terrible either.

Though I do completely agree they did drop the ball in some aspects like you said. Whoever decided it was good to rush FFXIV was really stupid. Im guessing Wada. Ignoring Type O is also stupid. It would have at least garnered 500,000 sales on the PSP, or if a HD remake came around, playing it on the PS3/Vita would have been great also. It would have definitely made them money.

A big problem was japanese development in general. With gamers essentially demanding better graphics (if it has average graphics, it must be horrible right?) they fell behind. HD isnt as big in Japan as it is in the US and Europe and thats why most japanese developers latched onto handhelds and were still supporting the PS2 instead of upping their graphical ante. I think that will change next gen and allow them to work more on gameplay systems over graphics since they have been getting used to HD more and more this gen though.

 

[AuronX]

I just think it's sort of sad that one, maybe two games werent received well and they have to talk about gaining trust back. The majority of their games over 25 years have been phenomenal and now two games break them? I'd say it says more about videogame fans than the company themselves.

...and those two games were not completely without merit, either. Just because a FF game isn't the crowning jewel of the series doesn't make it an utter failure. So you didn't like the latest entry as much as you liked another entry. Fine. Wait for the next entry and give it an equal try as every other game. No reason to conclude that SE is incapable of making a decent game any more.

 

[Ohri-Jin]

...and those two games were not completely without merit, either. Just because a FF game isn't the crowning jewel of the series doesn't make it an utter failure. So you didn't like the latest entry as much as you liked another entry. Fine. Wait for the next entry and give it an equal try as every other game. No reason to conclude that SE is incapable of making a decent game any more.

Thats exactly what Nocturn meant btw -___-
But I disagree with you both. SE persists on latching on FFXIII, if they just moved on I wouldnt have been bothered. But they keep polishing the same turd over and over while me and lots of other ppl want other projects.


Versus.
KH3.
US/EU version of Type-0 (I hope a psn download but also playable on ps3)
FFX HD (which will keep me sweet till Versus is released)

These are ignored while all the other bullshit projects imo is still being praised. -____-

 

[Nocturne]

Thats exactly what Nocturn meant btw -___-
But I disagree with you both. SE persists on latching on FFXIII, if they just moved on I wouldnt have been bothered. But they keep polishing the same turd over and over while me and lots of other ppl want other projects.


Versus.
KH3.
US/EU version of Type-0 (I hope a psn download but also playable on ps3)
FFX HD (which will keep me sweet till Versus is released)

These are ignored while all the other bullshit projects imo is still being praised. -____-

I can see where you are coming from at the very least. While I dont hate FFXIII, doing something new would be appreciated. Bravely Default looks good as well as Kingdom Hearts 3D, but that's another handheld game and they have been fine on that front. Console wise they havent deviated much. Sleeping Dogs is good but that isnt from the main SE development teams. I like most of SE's one off games but they havent done one of those in a good while.

 

[Nightfade]

Versus.
KH3.
US/EU version of Type-0 (I hope a psn download but also playable on ps3)
FFX HD (which will keep me sweet till Versus is released)

Definitely agree with these titles finally getting out there to the world, too.

Sadly, XIII is still SE's cash cow. They know everyone absolutely loves Lightning, so they'll prey on that. Bah.