A possible hole in the FF7 story...

Buster Sword

Buster Sword

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Hi everyone. I am the newest member here:blush: The possible "hole" I found in the story of FF7 is about the motive for Sephiroth's insanity. Sephiroth basically said in the Nibelheim Incident of the game that he turned on everyone for his "mother" Jenova. Now if you trigger the extra cut scene in the game behind a waterfall with Vincent in your Party, we find out that Sephiroth's REAL mother is a woman scientist named "Lucrecia Crescent." Now, did anyone else think that after learning that truth that Cloud and the others should've just told Sephiroth about Lucrecia, possibly restoring his sanity back? And Cloud could've told Sephiroth that truth in Advent Children. So that's the possible "hole" I found in the story. The reason I think that would've work is because Sephiroth's insanity triggered after he found out about Jenova. Do y'all understand what I'm getting at?
 
I'm gonna try and answer your question, although not as good as Dragon Mage could I bet. The simple answer is that when Sephiroth went berserk Cloud didn't know that Lucrecia was Sephiroth's real mother. He doesn't find that out until after you get Vincent in your party 5 years later. As for telling him that in Advent Children, I think at that point Sephiroth was way gone and wouldn't listen to anything Cloud had to say anyways.
 
Well, Sephiroth essentially locked himself in the basement library of a creepy mansion, and read lots of books about the Jenova project and Shinra. This sent him insane. I believe (though it has been several years since I last played the game) that Sephiroth had been told from an early age that his mother was named 'Jenova', and it was only when he went to Nibelheim that he realised that Jenova was a freaky monster and that monsters were being created, and that he essentially carried the genetic make-up of this monster.

If he did learn that Lucretia was his real mother in the library (I'm not sure if this is stated or not) then I wouldn't have mattered much to him by then. He already knew he was a lab-experiment, so it probably didn't matter to him who the surrogate mother (Lucretia) was. If it did matter to him, and he did find out, then that probably would have only encouraged his anger because Lucretia was hardly well-treated.

Sephiroth had turned mad by then. He was angry with Shinra for everything they had done, and he'd filled his head with stories abut Jenova. It's been a while since I played it, but I believe he read books which had stated the original thesis that Jenova was an ancient, so he believed Jenova and himself to be of the Cetra, and that he had a rightful claim. I think it wasn't until later (than those books) that people realised that Jenova was in fact an alien invader who had attacked the Cetra, was defeated, and remained frozen. If Sephiroth did find out about his alien genes (and I believe he did after tapping into all sorts of spirit-streams and visiting the Temple of the Ancients, etc etc) then that shock on his system only made him worse.

Basically, Sephiroth snapped when he found the Nibelheim reactor. After locking himself in the library and reading the books about Jenova and the ancients he turned insane, and turned his SOLDIER training and the strength he received from Jenova against Shinra, and also the entire world. Shinra made an incredibly stupid and fatal error in sending Sephiroth to the Mako reactor which contained his space-Mom.
 
But wouldn't have Sephiroth have been able to just read about it in the text books... Afterall it was one of professor Hojo's experiments if im not mistaken... Or were only professor Ghasts experiments logged... However, Sephiroth knew about Jenova so he should have been able to Read about Lucrecia... That's where i call the hole!
 
Don't forget Hojo. He even said it himself, what would Sephiroth think if he found out Hojo was his father. Learning about Lucretia may have calm him down a bit, but learning about Hojo would just start the cycle all over again. He's right that he was created. Created from a woman the traditional way :P
 
Sephiroth's role as the villain is as clear as day; old war buddy discovers some exclusive secret about himself and goes on a rampage for the sake of his own justice, whatever that may exactly be. I've got a few theories about the reason and impacts that contributed to the character we know and love - Sephiroth.

Starting w/ his backstory, it's way too vague to pinpoint when things went wrong, but there are some clues as to what happened throughout his development. A quote that comes to mind is when Sephiroth begins his rampage, muttering, "I've always felt strange when I was a child, but..", which suggests that Sephiroth had always struggled with childhood issues, be they social or regarding his attitude to his strength and intellect. Considering he was always gifted, he would have had to have been isolated, due to the large differences in strength gaps. (Cloud and Zack got along well because, although they were both really strong, they were still 'normal' compared to Sephiroth.)

Or, maybe his rampage was justified, because he learned that the Cetras were replaced w/ humans, although it was 'evolutionary'. The fact remains; the Cetra are extinct and Sephiroth seemed to have taken an interest, initially. (He discovered the truth about JENOVA before he rejoined Cloud in the Ancient Temple.) I think he genuinely wanted to avenge the Cetra at the time.

Or, consider the heritage, the limitless bloodlust of the entity known as JENOVA, as we've seen through either through those who are unable to determine a will of their own (the villains from Advent Children) or through influencing of subtle tendencies (although Cloud and Zack had control of themselves, they still twitched constantly and have had compulsions outside of their nature) I believe Sephiroth was a case of both.

He was compelled by JENOVA, sure, but he acted for himself. Ultimately, he was bothered by mankind, he wanted Godship. As far as speculation regarding his disturbed attitude, 'why', 'when' and 'how' are meaningless. He was a jerk who Cloud has had a grudge against and just another reason for him to live. As long as JENOVA and fearless scientists existed, something bad would have happened one way or another, even if Project S was somehow interrupted.

I care, not about whether you think/know/think you know if I'm right or wrong, except that you keep thinking about the backstory with the intent of learning and constructing your own opinions.
 
While she was pregnant Hojo and Lucrecia both agreed to use Sephiroth for the Jenova project. While in pregnancy Hojo injected both Lucrecia and the fetus with jenova cells so in a way Sephiroth was a son of Jenova even though Lucrecia gave birth to him. So yea some weird and deep stuff went on...
 
I don't see that as a hole really. And from Crisis Core, it seems like Sephiroth was more messed up by the fact that he was created for the sake of an experiment. Do you know that he specifically cared about the fact that he thought Jenova was his mother? That seems more like his later-on rationalising of things.

A different hole in the story that I've always wondered about. I'm not sure if this is ever addressed.
If Cloud ultimately turned out to be a success story in that he became awesome and kicked Sephiroths ass in the Nibelheim reactor (and then obviously went on to be a success in the main plot of FF7), why did he originally fail to get into Soldier? Why was he just a regular footman?
 
LinnyCockle said:
A different hole in the story that I've always wondered about. I'm not sure if this is ever addressed.
If Cloud ultimately turned out to be a success story in that he became awesome and kicked Sephiroths ass in the Nibelheim reactor (and then obviously went on to be a success in the main plot of FF7), why did he originally fail to get into Soldier? Why was he just a regular footman?
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Cloud was too physically weak to join SOLDIER so joined the regular army instead. He was only able to fight off Sephiroth because of the rage and determination he felt after watching his hometown burn. After the events of Nibelheim, whilst imprisoned in the Basement Lab, he and Zack were experimented on with the intention of creating Sephiroth 'clones'. They were injected with Jenova cells and this is where Cloud gets his strength from the original game onwards.
 
I would have to say that the reason was that his power from the experiment wasn't fully awakened and upon seeing that Sephiroth had cut down Zack AND Tifa, that power that had laid dormant for so long had started to awaken. In Last Order, after the Neiblhiem incident, Hojo had went over to Cloud and said that "everything was coming together" in not so many words.
 
Fabletear said:
I would have to say that the reason was that his power from the experiment wasn't fully awakened and upon seeing that Sephiroth had cut down Zack AND Tifa, that power that had laid dormant for so long had started to awaken.
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There was no power that laid dormant. Cloud hadn't been experimented on at this point, only AFTER Nibelheim.
 
Sephiroth is called son of Jenova most likely because he is the result of the Jenova project. He is an experiment.... existing only because of the Jenova project. If I remember correctly (and I used to have this whole game memorized 12 or so years ago), he went insane after reading about it. He actually went crazy for several reasons: Because the only reason he came into being was the Jenova project, what happened to the Cetra (of which Jenova was thought to be) and he wanted to avenge his "mother," because Jenova's cells were controlling him, and various other reasons. I always thought the main reason he went off the deep end is because he's frickin evil.... at least, that's what I like to think anyway.
 
Also, I don't know if someone's already mentioned this, but I get the impression that when Sephiroth talks about Jenova being his mother, he's not being literal. He doesn't actually believe that someone impregnated Jenova and she carried him to term, but he's had Jenova cells injected into him, and increasingly over time he's becoming more and more like a kind of Jenova II, so his referring to her as mother is both a reference to that (she makes up a part of him) and implying a dominant, matriarchal role.
 
Jenova is apparently a rough translation meaning "new god". though Sephiroth's mother is indeed Lucrecia he still holds the cells and genes of Jenova because of the experiments, giving him the blood of this "new god". Though its kinda poorly done, I believe he goes off of the deep end for 2 reasons. One, he realizes that Jenova is used to make mako monsters, so that in turn means that his is also one of those monsters. According to his phrasing it seems that he didn't quite fit in as a child and it seems that a lot of life long identity issues begin to arise. The second reason he becomes insane is because of his obsession with uncovering why he is the way he is. Once he understands the power Jenova holds and his relation to it, he begins to thirst for that power.
 
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