Aerith's Sacrifice

[Saints&Storms]

Tifa
"I wonder what Aerith felt... when she was on that altar...?"

Cloud
"I'm sure she wanted to give her life for the planet..." ~ FFVII

Implying that Tifa, knows Aerith more than Cloud does is beyond ludicrous; Here we have Cloud and Aerith who immediately built their own two person world, they immediately became close, Cloud was willing to go to Shin-Ra building and save her even though they knew each other for only a few days at the time.

Cloud
"...Aerith. Aerith has already prayed for Holy."
"...After I gave the Black Materia to Sephiroth...... Aerith's
words came into my dreams..."
"She said, she was the only one who could stop Sephiroth......
And to do that, there was a secret here..."
"That was Holy...... That's why, she had the White Materia.
Aerith knew about here... and what she had to do."
"Aerith has left us great hope. But, it cost her her life... her
future..."
"I'm sorry... Aerith. I should have figured this out sooner."
"...You left us without saying a word...... It was all so sudden,
so I couldn't think..."
"That's why it took so long for me to find out... But, Aerith...
I understand now."
"Aerith... I'll do the rest."~ FFVII

Trying to use Tifa's next comment to Cloud to override Clouds words which began puzzling the pieces that Aerith left behind for him together.

Aerith opened up to Cloud on numerous occasions, At the Cosmo Canyon, when Tseng died, when she entered his dreams and decided to say goodbye to him of all her friends.

She also had good feelings towards him. At first, she thought he somehow had some similarities to her first love. Even so, his looks, voice and personality weren't similar and he also made her think of him as a mysterious person... But it soon didn't matter. She loved him much more than her first love. Cloud was her hero and he couldn’t get away from danger. She saw him as someone full of confidence, cool and had the impression that he would disappear in an instant if she took her eyes off him. She wanted to stay by his side forever if she could. She really wanted to.~ Maiden of The Planet

Why couldn't she stay with him forever? She wanted to? Its almost as though she knew something was standing in her way of doing so.

When she left her companions and headed for the Forgotten City, Cloud's heart was like an egg that was on the verge of cracking open. It wasn’t going to crack open like the way an egg hatched but, as if only the yolk was going to seep out of it. It was as if his mind was going to shatter. She wanted to comfort him. If she wasn't the last survivor of the Cetra she probably would have done so without a doubt.~ Maiden of The Planet

She wanted to, she could have if she didn't think or know she would die. But here her words are contradicting other wise, Aerith who spoke with the planet, and her dead mother who told her she would find her promised land-henceforth; dying.

That was where Aerith hesitated. Will she let all humans die or was she going to avoid such a disaster in exchange for her life... But she never did think about it and was already prepared. When she did hesitant about leaving Cloud in sorrow, she would think about how it wouldn't save her companions or the people of the world. She had already made up her mind. There was no other choice. It was all for Cloud too. ~ Maiden of The Planet

Again she had to choose between death as a sacrifice, or to stay with her friends and let the world go to oblivion. She even wanted to stay behind with Cloud but fearlessly faced death despite her desire.

 

[coffeecup]

You see the confusion for me is how she died. Despite the point of whether or not Aeris knew she would die by summoning Holy, I highly doubt she expected to die by being impaled in the chest by Seph's sword.

I see the connection of summoning holy to beat meteor requires the sacrfice of the individual who summons it. I don't see the connection between this and dying by an unrelated third-party.

Maybe it was two birds with one stone for the director: summon Holy and show how evil Seph is at the same time.

Maybe she was supposed to "magically" go back into the Lifestream post-Holy summon (via fading away like Tidus or some other crap), but, as I said, I don't think it was part of her plan to get ninja pwned by Sephiroth.

 

[Channizard]

I don't think Aerith ever intended to die, or thought she was going to die. When She comes to Cloud in his dreams, she says "I'll come back when it's all over..." She wanted, nay, intended to come back. My assumption is that she only ever thought that by going along she could avoid drawing attention to herself and the whole crowd. She could maybe slip by Sephiroth unnoticed.

I think she just intended to successfully summon Holy on her own... after all, only she could do it. Maybe she felt she could spare the others lives by going alone. I'm sure she was aware of the dangers of going alone, but obviously she felt strong enough to do it.

A Kitase quote further solidifies about the whole sacrifice thing and rather that it's more of a tragedy to VII.

In the real world things are very different. You just need to look around you. Nobody wants to die that way. People die of disease and accident. Death comes suddenly and there is no notion of good or bad. It leaves, not a dramatic feeling but great emptiness. When you lose someone you loved very much you feel this big empty space and think, 'If I had known this was coming I would have done things differently.' These are the feelings I wanted to arouse in the players with Aerith's death relatively early in the game. Feelings of reality and not Hollywood.

-sniff- The man bloody well succeeded.

 

[Saints&Storms]

You see the confusion for me is how she died. Despite the point of whether or not Aeris knew she would die by summoning Holy, I highly doubt she expected to die by being impaled in the chest by Seph's sword.

I see the connection of summoning holy to beat meteor requires the sacrfice of the individual who summons it. I don't see the connection between this and dying by an unrelated third-party.

Maybe it was two birds with one stone for the director: summon Holy and show how evil Seph is at the same time.

Maybe she was supposed to "magically" go back into the Lifestream post-Holy summon (via fading away like Tidus or some other crap), but, as I said, I don't think it was part of her plan to get ninja pwned by Sephiroth.

I agree, she may have had the strong feeling of death in her destiny, and no doubt she knew it was tied to her summoning Holy, but she did know it was going to happen on the alter for one, for the other I don't think she thought Sephiroth would do it, or then again maybe she did because she embarked on the journey to the Forgotten City to get in the way of Sephiroths plans, she couldn't have expected him to not do anything.

I don't think Aerith ever intended to die, or thought she was going to die. When She comes to Cloud in his dreams, she says "I'll come back when it's all over..." She wanted, nay, intended to come back. My assumption is that she only ever thought that by going along she could avoid drawing attention to herself and the whole crowd. She could maybe slip by Sephiroth unnoticed.

I think she just intended to successfully summon Holy on her own... after all, only she could do it. Maybe she felt she could spare the others lives by going alone. I'm sure she was aware of the dangers of going alone, but obviously she felt strong enough to do it.

A Kitase quote further solidifies about the whole sacrifice thing and rather that it's more of a tragedy to VII.



-sniff- The man bloody well succeeded.

That's the thing, I don't think Aerith knew how or where she would die, but rather sensed the imminent feelings of death approaching her, she states in The Maiden that she could feel her death coming.

I think this also applies to Crisis Core, when Zack dies, before it flips to the scene of Zack and Cloud as Zack is dying, we see Aerith sensing something and she looks up to the sky.

It was sudden, Aeriths Death to us gamers and to the party of friends, we don't discover her true intentions until later on in disk two.

 

[Alexis Malaware]

Not sure why this is even being debated, I thought it was pretty obvious after the death scene that it was intended as a sacrifice. The writers just didn't want it to be obvious so that her actual death scene would come as a shock to everybody it certainly did to me. Didn't help matters that I was like only nine years old at the time too, didn't even react at first I thought I could just use a phoenix down and bring her back to life. That didn't happen then I said my very first swear word and rage quit the game for a full year before touching it again. I got way too attached to characters emotionally back then. I agree that she probably didn't expect to be killed the way she did and perhaps assumed she'd die by other means, oh and I think she did come back when it was all over. Granted she was a ghost/spirit but she did come back. Sort of. Am I making any sense here?

 

[Clerkin]

Aerith opened up to Cloud on numerous occasions, At the Cosmo Canyon, when Tseng died, when she entered his dreams and decided to say goodbye to him of all her friends.

Tseng never died you actually see him in Advent Children

I think Aerith wanted to come back to Cloud and even though going to the forgotten city alone I think all she wanted to do was summon holy as she was the only one who could do it and she was willing to risk her life to do so but never expected Sephiroth to attack.

I think Aerith went on her own not to get the other's hurt she knew that she was the only one who could summon holy so why put other people's live's in danger, Aerith understood the consequence's for the planet if she did not summon holy so maybe she thought going alone was the best thing to do. The way I look at it is maybe Aerith thought that being with someone for a while is good but protecting them from evil is better so to risk your life for your friend's is a small price to pay for there happiness.

I could never figure out why Sephiroth knew Aerith was going to summon holy, why did he wait until after she was finished the prayer.

Tell me what you cherish most. Give me the pleasure of taking it away.

If Sephiroth can stop holy why kill Aerith I think it was to annoy Cloud more than anything as Cloud took Sephiroth's most cherished thing his life, Sephiroth did better as he took Aerith from Cloud and made him live with her death so I think Aerith's death has a lot to do with the fact that Sephiroth is always trying to take precious thing's from Cloud so that he live's in despair.

 

[Ayen]

I'm still not entirely convinced. Just because she sensed death in her destiny doesn't mean that she knew she was going to die at that point in time. I think she had plans to return to Cloud after summoning Holy, but shit happens, and she had her life taken from her and there wasn't a damn thing anybody could do about it.

I think the plan was, "Go here, summon Holy and GTFO!"

-shrugs- That's just my take on it though.

 

[Saints&Storms]

Tseng never died you actually see him in Advent Children

I forgot that got retcon'd out in AC

I think Aerith wanted to come back to Cloud and even though going to the forgotten city alone I think all she wanted to do was summon holy as she was the only one who could do it and she was willing to risk her life to do so but never expected Sephiroth to attack.

Well, the quotes from Maiden actually say she knew she had to pick her life or the life of the planet and that adds up with the farewell feeling of saying "I'll come back when its all over."

And being ready to risk your life, is all the same is a sacrifice in my opinion.

I could never figure out why Sephiroth knew Aerith was going to summon holy, why did he wait until after she was finished the prayer.

He was late that's all or I think he did it to enrage Cloud all the more.

If Sephiroth can stop holy why kill Aerith I think it was to annoy Cloud more than anything as Cloud took Sephiroth's most cherished thing his life, Sephiroth did better as he took Aerith from Cloud and made him live with her death so I think Aerith's death has a lot to do with the fact that Sephiroth is always trying to take precious thing's from Cloud so that he live's in despair.

I agree and maybe Aerith didn't know how she would die but she definitely knew she would die summoning Holy.

Not sure why this is even being debated, I thought it was pretty obvious after the death scene that it was intended as a sacrifice. The writers just didn't want it to be obvious so that her actual death scene would come as a shock to everybody it certainly did to me. Didn't help matters that I was like only nine years old at the time too, didn't even react at first I thought I could just use a phoenix down and bring her back to life. That didn't happen then I said my very first swear word and rage quit the game for a full year before touching it again. I got way too attached to characters emotionally back then. I agree that she probably didn't expect to be killed the way she did and perhaps assumed she'd die by other means, oh and I think she did come back when it was all over. Granted she was a ghost/spirit but she did come back. Sort of. Am I making any sense here?

That's what I thought, until I recently had people tell me I was mistaken, so I though I might try and clear it up for myself a little. Everything else you said there I agree with, my sentiments exactly.

I'm still not entirely convinced. Just because she sensed death in her destiny doesn't mean that she knew she was going to die at that point in time. I think she had plans to return to Cloud after summoning Holy, but shit happens, and she had her life taken from her and there wasn't a damn thing anybody could do about it.

I think the plan was, "Go here, summon Holy and GTFO!"

-shrugs- That's just my take on it though.

But the Maiden, shows readers from Aeriths POV that she did know. And even back in FFVII Cloud discovers that she knew she had to.

 

[Mugen]

First I just want to say something and not get shot or hanged in public..

Aerith and Cloud would have never happened >.< It is clear that Aerith loved Zack, and Cloud only reminded her of him and the time they spent together. Cloud and Tifa are childhood friends and each other's first love, and that means a lot.

The reason why Cloud thinks so much of Aerith is because he regrets not saving her, because she was dear to him, we see that in AC, and after Crisis Core I think it's clear how the love part of this story goes.

Sorry a bit OT there ^^

I think Aerith did what any hero would do, she gave her life to save everyone. Since she knew Sephiroth I think she was prepared to die, probably not at that exact moment though. I think that she didn't really hesitate much, since she knew that she would be meeting Zack again and join him in the Lifestream, just maybe felt a little regret for leaving the others.

 

[Ryushikaze]

I forgot that got retcon'd out in AC

It wasn't. The original game was actually deliberately vague on his fate. Elena's infamous line was itself actually itself a mistranslation, and was reverted to a much less fatal sounding 'messing my boss up' in the much better translated PC version of the game.

Well, the quotes from Maiden actually say she knew she had to pick her life or the life of the planet and that adds up with the farewell feeling of saying "I'll come back when its all over."

And being ready to risk your life, is all the same is a sacrifice in my opinion.

No. If the intent is to come back, you aren't deliberately sacrificing yourself.
The death was murder. As for Maiden, it's not exactly given much credence in the rest of the compilation.

He was late that's all or I think he did it to enrage Cloud all the more.

The speech afterwards was for his own ego. Sephiroth killed Aerith to try and prevent Holy from even being a factor. He failed in that regard.

I agree and maybe Aerith didn't know how she would die but she definitely knew she would die summoning Holy.

Based on... what?

That's what I thought, until I recently had people tell me I was mistaken, so I though I might try and clear it up for myself a little. Everything else you said there I agree with, my sentiments exactly.

Err, it may be 'obvious' to you, but it's certainly not 'obvious' to other people and the creators themselves disagree.

But the Maiden, shows readers from Aeriths POV that she did know. And even back in FFVII Cloud discovers that she knew she had to.

But they don't discover that. The soul reaching Holy doesn't have to lose its life to activate holy.

By casting her death as a noble sacrifice, you are spitting in the face of Nomura, Nojima, and Kitase, by insisting that Aerith did the very thing they were so contemptuous of, they thing they were trying to avoid.

 

[Ayen]

But the Maiden, shows readers from Aeriths POV that she did know. And even back in FFVII Cloud discovers that she knew she had to.

The quotes you used as example aren't entirely black and white to me, and when things can be interpret in different ways it leads to me not being entirely convinced of one exclusive conclusion. I'll show you what I mean.

Tifa
"I wonder what Aerith felt... when she was on that altar...?"

Cloud
"I'm sure she wanted to give her life for the planet..." ~ FFVII

This doesn't automatically means that was her intent. It could just mean if she had to go she would have wanted to go for what she believed in.

Cloud
"...Aerith. Aerith has already prayed for Holy."
"...After I gave the Black Materia to Sephiroth...... Aerith's
words came into my dreams..."
"She said, she was the only one who could stop Sephiroth......
And to do that, there was a secret here..."
"That was Holy...... That's why, she had the White Materia.
Aerith knew about here... and what she had to do."
"Aerith has left us great hope. But, it cost her her life... her
future..."
"I'm sorry... Aerith. I should have figured this out sooner."
"...You left us without saying a word...... It was all so sudden,
so I couldn't think..."
"That's why it took so long for me to find out... But, Aerith...
I understand now."
"Aerith... I'll do the rest."~ FFVII

This could just mean he's realizing Holy is the key to victory here. Something Aerith sought that ended up killing her, but it doesn't mean she knew 100% that she would die.

She also had good feelings towards him. At first, she thought he somehow had some similarities to her first love. Even so, his looks, voice and personality weren't similar and he also made her think of him as a mysterious person... But it soon didn't matter. She loved him much more than her first love. Cloud was her hero and he couldn’t get away from danger. She saw him as someone full of confidence, cool and had the impression that he would disappear in an instant if she took her eyes off him. She wanted to stay by his side forever if she could. She really wanted to.~ Maiden of The Planet

This could also mean she thinks her duty as an Ancient would prevent her from being with him. See? It can be interpret in different ways.

When she left her companions and headed for the Forgotten City, Cloud's heart was like an egg that was on the verge of cracking open. It wasn’t going to crack open like the way an egg hatched but, as if only the yolk was going to seep out of it. It was as if his mind was going to shatter. She wanted to comfort him. If she wasn't the last survivor of the Cetra she probably would have done so without a doubt.~ Maiden of The Planet

She had a job to do. Doesn't mean death was in the job description.

Now with that said I will admit I missed the following quote entirely prior to my last post in this thread,

That was where Aerith hesitated. Will she let all humans die or was she going to avoid such a disaster in exchange for her life... But she never did think about it and was already prepared. When she did hesitant about leaving Cloud in sorrow, she would think about how it wouldn't save her companions or the people of the world. She had already made up her mind. There was no other choice. It was all for Cloud too. ~ Maiden of The Planet

That was a bit more direct than the other quotes. I never read the Maiden of The Planet, I don't know how accurate it is, and it's been ages since I've been to the points in FFVII which you have quoted, but I'm merely showing why I wasn't entirely convinced in my last post due to mere interpretation solely based on the examples given as they were seen. It can be a real bitch.

 

[Saints&Storms]

First I just want to say something and not get shot or hanged in public..

Aerith and Cloud would have never happened >.< It is clear that Aerith loved Zack, and Cloud only reminded her of him and the time they spent together. Cloud and Tifa are childhood friends and each other's first love, and that means a lot.

The reason why Cloud thinks so much of Aerith is because he regrets not saving her, because she was dear to him, we see that in AC, and after Crisis Core I think it's clear how the love part of this story goes.

Sorry a bit OT there ^^

I think Aerith did what any hero would do, she gave her life to save everyone. Since she knew Sephiroth I think she was prepared to die, probably not at that exact moment though. I think that she didn't really hesitate much, since she knew that she would be meeting Zack again and join him in the Lifestream, just maybe felt a little regret for leaving the others.

There aren't LTD's allowed on the Forum but I'd be more than happy to reply to you what you posted in PM so that the mods don't have an LTD to monitor.

That was a bit more direct than the other quotes. I never read the Maiden of The Planet, I don't know how accurate it is, and it's been ages since I've been to the points in FFVII which you have quoted, but I'm merely showing why I wasn't entirely convinced in my last post due to mere interpretation solely based on the examples given as they were seen. It can be a real bitch.

I understand what you mean, but isn't that last one direct enough to show what we were supposed to get from what FFVII stated? It was supervised by SE, so its pretty accurate.

This doesn't automatically means that was her intent. It could just mean if she had to go she would have wanted to go for what she believed in.

This could just mean he's realizing Holy is the key to victory here. Something Aerith sought that ended up killing her, but it doesn't mean she knew 100% that she would die.

In regards to Maiden I think its pretty clear though.

____​

It wasn't. The original game was actually deliberately vague on his fate. Elena's infamous line was itself actually itself a mistranslation, and was reverted to a much less fatal sounding 'messing my boss up' in the much better translated PC version of the game.

[strike]Pics[/strike]Proof or it didn't happen.

No. If the intent is to come back, you aren't deliberately sacrificing yourself.
The death was murder. As for Maiden, it's not exactly given much credence in the rest of the compilation.

Maiden, nuff said. She controls the lifestream, she could have come back, we even see her face at the end of FFVII shrouded in lifestream, perhaps giving us a glimpse of her come back?

Sorry but you don't declare whats canon, duderino

Based on... what?

Maiden Who travels the Planet.

Err, it may be 'obvious' to you, but it's certainly not 'obvious' to other people and the creators themselves disagree.

SE and Benny disagree with you, and since you have absolutely no connection to SE, I think I'm gonna go with the latter.

But they don't discover that. The soul reaching Holy doesn't have to lose its life to activate holy.

By casting her death as a noble sacrifice, you are spitting in the face of Nomura, Nojima, and Kitase, by insisting that Aerith did the very thing they were so contemptuous of, they thing they were trying to avoid.

Cloud discovers it in FFVII, its also stated in Maiden. Who's face am I spitting in?

Sacrifice herself? No. They were trying to avoid the cliche in which a Man sacrifices himself for a woman and instead they gave Aerith-a woman-sacrificing herself.

---​

I think there is even a quote from Nomura referring to having the Woman sacrifice herself instead of the Man.

"Back at the time we were designing the game, I was frustrated with the perennial cliche where the protagonist loves someone very much and so has to sacrifice himself and die in a dramatic fashion to express that love. We found this was the case in both games and movies, both eastern and western. But I wanted to say something different, something realistic. I mean, is it right to set such an example to people? "

 

[Ayen]

I understand what you mean, but isn't that last one direct enough to show what we were supposed to get from what FFVII stated? It was supervised by SE, so its pretty accurate.

It was. That what I meant by, "Not entirely convinced in my last post" since I had missed that quote entirely the first time I read your post. Oh dear eyes, how you like to overlook things. No wonder I suck at solving mysteries.

 

[The Witch]

I always thought it was pretty obvious Aerith chose to die for her friends, Cloud, and the planet. Cloud states it. Aerith states. That's all I really need.

 

[Mugen]

There aren't LTD's allowed on the Forum but I'd be more than happy to reply to you what you posted in PM so that the mods don't have an LTD to monitor.

I was joking, and why so serious..??

You guys are reading too into this IMO.

She was the only one that could activate holy right? So she was Sephiroths target, if it was Cloud who activated it he would have probably been the one to go. This way though the game became epic, if it were different I don't think it would have become this famous.

 

[The Witch]

She was the only one that could activate holy right? So she was Sephiroths target

Wait, now. Sephiroth didn't kill Aerith because she was a threat to his plan. He had NO IDEA what Aerith was planning to do. He just knew she was close to Cloud, and Sephiroth was trying to mindfook Cloud as much as possible.

Killing Aerith was just something he did in spite of Cloud.

 

[Mugen]

I agree, I forgot to write that in my post. I think it's both though, she was a threat because she was summoning Holy.. I need to replay this game

 

[Channizard]

Wait, now. Sephiroth didn't kill Aerith because she was a threat to his plan. He had NO IDEA what Aerith was planning to do. He just knew she was close to Cloud, and Sephiroth was trying to mindfook Cloud as much as possible.

Killing Aerith was just something he did in spite of Cloud.

Well now dearie I gotta disagree with you there. In Cloud's dream before he wakes up, Sephiroth appears. He knows something. It may have not been Holy, but he knew she was a Cetra and he knew, as she said herself "That only she could do it" or something.

Aerith
"Then, I'll be going now. I'll come back when it's all over."

Cloud
"Aerith?"

Sephiroth
"Hmm........ She's thinking of interfering? She will be a
difficult one, don't you think?"

Sephiroth
"We must stop that girl soon."

 

[GalaxyFlare]

Allright Kiddies lets get this straight Aerith/Aeris was not going to sacrifice herself for squat!........If a sacrifice were necessary dont you think the team would find a way around it? Sure she wanted to and was willing to do anything to protect the planet but sacrificing herself is not part of the plan.

Sephiroth knew damn well that Aeris was a threat to his plan..............while summoning Holy she was vulnerable and Seph struck at her weakest point..........To spite her? not even close Cali.......Willing to sacrifice herself? yes..........planned to sacrifice? not bloody likely!

There is no ambiguous notion here, She was not set to sacrifice herself, but was willing to there is a big difference..........Holy is natural counter to Meteor both require Materia to be summoned Seph had the Black Materia, Aris had the White Materia.........Sephiroth would have killed who ever held the White Materia..........Yuffie........Cid.

Summoning Holy requires no sacrifice..........its not the Ancients, way they would never develop a Materia such as that........all though sacrifice for getting materia is not unprecedented:remember The temple of the Ancients puzzles required a sacrifice, its not the same but..........Some interpretations are just so far of the fucking mark its ridiculous!

 

[Ilyena]

Galaxyflare, expressing your opinion is fine but there is no need to be rude to others about their opinions. There is no need to add little digs in your posts.