And then Square said "Let me give you despair" - Sephiroth's misuse.

[SeraphicFeather]

I have been a Final Fantasy gamer for some time now. I've played through several of the games with as much enthusiasm as humanly possible. Recently, my eyes fallen upon a war that rages between the vast fandom of Final Fantasy. Of all Final Fantasy games, the legendary "Final Fantasy 7 - Complete Collection" is the most heard of. It was a game that brought RPGs back into the gaming mainstream. Few have heard of it. Especially when Square. released the other areas of the story, "Dirge of Cerberus", "Advent Children", "Before Crisis" & "Crisis Core". And throughout those stories, there have been 2 characters that have always stood out. Cloud Strife & his arch nemesis, Sephiroth. Through the love that was shown for Final Fantasy 7, moreso for these characters, Square. saw potential & used it. Cloud & Sephiroth didn't just star in the majority of the Final Fantasy 7 games, but also had cameos & references in other editions of the Final Fantasy franchise, such as Final Fantasy Origins (FF5) & FFIX. Both starred in both Kingdom Hearts & Kingdom Hearts 2 & then again in Dissidia FF, soon to also star in Dissidia 012 FF. Sephiroth makes slightly less of a mark on the FF franchise, but still lands a place as an optional boss on both Kingdom Hearts & Kingdom Hearts 2, also starring as Cloud's polar opposite.

Now, in recent years, another Final Fantasy game has risen to fame once more, in the form of Final Fantasy 6. Most notably, the antagonist of FF6, Kefka, a psychotic, homicidal clown. He, being a favourite of Final Fantasy characters, was a clear competitor to Sephiroth's fame.

But why did Kefka's popularity rise so fast? Evidence would show that Square. made a big mistake in areas. As said before, FF7 is the most popular Final Fantasy to date, bar none. Square. saw a good chance for business with it & gave it sequels. By the end, Sephiroth had starred in a great number of games. But what did Square. do to Sephiroth in those games?

I have played through Final Fantasy 7. I was about 12 at the time & had recieved the discs from a friend. As I played through, I learnt of Sephiroth's reputation as a warrior with huge power. You see such well known events as

Spoiler

the burning of Nibelheim & his summoning of Weapon

& you see a brilliant character. I was genuinely impressed & somewhat creeped out by him.

Spoiler

Seeing that he almost rose to the power of a god, was just a booster of this effect.

Now to another side. The fandom, of course, agreed with my views. But, a lot of them took it too far. The so-called "fanboys" & "fangirls" both targeted Sephiroth as their favourites, a lot of them not even having played any RPGs other than Final Fantasy 7, being a new audience that found the popularity of the original game. Through constant rants & the expression of Yaoi (man on man sex) about him, Sephiroth died as the character he was.

Square. also seemed to nerf him in the the film "Advent Children", being beaten by Cloud alone, despite his reputation as a near-invincible super-soldier, previously seen in the official Final Fantasy 7.

I'm bored of writing now, so tell me your oppinions on the matter.

 

[Baron Van Wolfen]

I do agree, that there's some sort of phenomenon that's shifted some of the old love for FF7. I do tend to see more dislike towards it nowadays.....maybe it's just me, but it's how i feel.

And at the same time there is the exaltation of FF6 oddly enough.

And yea FF7 focused on the duality and rivaly of sephiroth e cloud, so of course cloud is going to be the only hero to ever solo the villain. It goes directly towards his character development going past that weak misguided child to defeating the most powerfull being of FF7. Sephiroth is still the same invincible super soldier from 7(albeit alot stronger) but Clouds character development has him grow past delusions such as soldier(you can see this in his clothing, him taking fenrir as his symbol, different weapon etc..) Like when sephiroth developed from the mindset of a human to a god. And became stronger. Cloud's character developed, and in result he could take sephiroth 1-on-1 and win. A feat that required all of avalanche(including even chaos) in FF7.

Also from FF7 to ACC sephiroth e cloud actually got huge powerboosts.

And sephiroth did win against cloud in ACC actually, but cloud regained his will to fight at the last second(ala zack speech) and omnislashed.

I don't particularly think sephiroth has lost his impact, I even think it was boosted in ACC due to various scenes.

 

[Noize]

Erm, he doesn't Summon the Weapons. They wake up by themselves when the planet is in danger do obliterate all lifeforms.

As for being "killed" Yeah he was so good in VII, but in AC and Dissidia he's just not the same. In AC he barely does anything cept fight cloud at the end, and that was only because Kadaj took Jenova cells directly into him, so you cant even say it was really him, and in Dissidia it's like Seph's gone soft. he sounded half sympathetic and helpful....

 

[SeraphicFeather]

I do agree, that there's some sort of phenomenon that's shifted some of the old love for FF7. I do tend to see more dislike towards it nowadays.....maybe it's just me, but it's how i feel.

And at the same time there is the exaltation of FF6 oddly enough.

And yea FF7 focused on the duality and rivaly of sephiroth e cloud, so of course cloud is going to be the only hero to ever solo the villain. It goes directly towards his character development going past that weak misguided child to defeating the most powerfull being of FF7. Sephiroth is still the same invincible super soldier from 7(albeit alot stronger) but Clouds character development has him grow past delusions such as soldier(you can see this in his clothing, him taking fenrir as his symbol, different weapon etc..) Like when sephiroth developed from the mindset of a human to a god. And became stronger. Cloud's character developed, and in result he could take sephiroth 1-on-1 and win. A feat that required all of avalanche(including even chaos) in FF7.

Also from FF7 to ACC sephiroth e cloud actually got huge powerboosts.

And sephiroth did win against cloud in ACC actually, but cloud regained his will to fight at the last second(ala zack speech) and omnislashed.

I don't particularly think sephiroth has lost his impact, I even think it was boosted in ACC due to various scenes.

Well, I agree that Cloud got a massive powerboost, but Sephiroth was nerfed. For a supersoldier, he should've been able to wipe the floor with Cloud, imo. But thats just my thought.

I haven't actually seen ACC yet. But I can imagine some parts. I just think that Square have milked Sephiroth too much. Lets face it, they've done it with Cloud too, but his power wasn't emphasasised as much as Sephiroth's, so it made less of a splash.

When I saw Sephy in in KH2 (I played it before KH1), I was like: "Oh! Yay!" Then I saw him in KH1 & was like: "Dude...his voice is ridiculous..."
When I saw him in Dissidia, I was kinda underwhelmed by him. He's by far one of the best characters, but seeing as a lot of the characters beat him up in storyline, it really makes him look bad.
Now seeing him in a game just causes me to groan, sadly.
Don't get me wrong, I love Sephiroth, but they've got to tone him down a little.

(Plus, if they have to replace Cloud & Sephiroth for KH3, I want to see Cecil & Golbez)

 

[Baron Van Wolfen]

Well, I agree that Cloud got a massive powerboost, but Sephiroth was nerfed. For a supersoldier, he should've been able to wipe the floor with Cloud, imo. But thats just my thought.

I haven't actually seen ACC yet. But I can imagine some parts. I just think that Square have milked Sephiroth too much. Lets face it, they've done it with Cloud too, but his power wasn't emphasasised as much as Sephiroth's, so it made less of a splash.

When I saw Sephy in in KH2 (I played it before KH1), I was like: "Oh! Yay!" Then I saw him in KH1 & was like: "Dude...his voice is ridiculous..."
When I saw him in Dissidia, I was kinda underwhelmed by him. He's by far one of the best characters, but seeing as a lot of the characters beat him up in storyline, it really makes him look bad.
Now seeing him in a game just causes me to groan, sadly.
Don't get me wrong, I love Sephiroth, but they've got to tone him down a little.

(Plus, if they have to replace Cloud & Sephiroth for KH3, I want to see Cecil & Golbez)

Thing is cloud is also a supersoldier, he technically is still a sephiroth clone.

Well sephiroth is stronger than cloud there is no doubt about that, the creator themselves stated he's stronger than anything in FF7.

BUT the thing is cloud's inevitable character development from being a puppet of seph's to being the Archrival of seph.

When you really think about no one but cloud is ever going to stand a chance against sephiroth.

Vincent stated he believed only Cloud is a match for sephiroth, further enchanced by the creators themselves in the reunion files when they say cloud is seph's rival.

Sora was treated like a punk by seph.

So not chaos vincent, or omega weiss or sora are ever going to stand a chance against sephiroth. And that's why i think his aura of invincibility is still apparent.

Also TOTTALY agree on him being milked and defeated in other games. It does worsen his image.

But remember those Sephiroth's in other games are all non-canon. Really they might as well be an alternate version of him. So don't let the non-canon sephiroths bum you down and try to focus more on the compilation sephiroth's, which is still the most powerfull ones around.

 

[DarkShadow]

I wouldn't say he's over just yet........Sure Square has dedinately damaged his rep especially when he gets solely killed by Cloud. But to me Sephiroth MOSTLY known for two things: His super-power in FFVII of course and killing that praying women everyone loved!! - But these still are what is mainly Sephiroth is known for

But seeing him get knocked out by just one character in dissidia is really a shock..........But if you ask me what else can Square do,especially in Dissidia........It was just a one-one beat-em-up you cant ecpect them to re-shuffle the whole game so you can have handi-capped matches...........and niether can you have Sephiroth win, because well the good guys of the game always have to win don't they?

 

[Jquestionmark]

I've never quite known how to feel about Sephiroth, especially compared to the classic villains like Kefka and Golbez. He never really seemed that incredible of an antagonist, and his appearances in other games hasn't been any worse than his appearance in 7. He never had a backstory of any real significance (he was in Soldier and has Jenova DNA covers about everything you ever learn about him), and he was just the overt smash his way to his final goal sort.

He shows up a lot because 7 is very popular and well known, so Squeenix gives the fans what they want to see. He's always acted aloof and disconnected, so I'd be surprised if he ever has an appearance beyond show up, act like he's above everything, get beaten by Cloud. That what he did the first time (admittedly, with a little more class and creep factor), and that's likely all he'll ever do.

 

[Baron Van Wolfen]

You shouldn’t worry too much about sephiroth losing in dissidia. The powerlevels are completely off the charts there.

They have to nerf certain characters in cameos and spinoffs....because they can’t have these characters going around destroying everything.

For example squall could fight evenly with sephiroth in dissidia, even when in canon he wasn’t fast enough to dodge machine gun fire. Tidus can fight Kefka, so and so.

In dissidia 012 Tifa will be able to fight evenly with seph. Even though she was horribly defeated by loz when he got serious.

Sephiroth and cloud in KH are other examples.......

 

[Kelranox]

They built him up as a god, that much was evident. I've actually heard that when Square neared the end of Final Fantasy VII, they were strapped for time and kind of rushed the ending. That would be understandable because the fight was less than epic. As well, for AC you see Sephiroth holding Cloud above him with nothing but the strength of one arm and his legendary Masamune. Yet, Cloud somehow manages to escape from his clutches and outdo him with a ridiculous finishing attack.

I didn't play Crisis Core but you find out about which scents and shampoos Sephiroth uses for his hair....that's just disrespectful to this kind of villain.

As well, in Kingdom Hearts 2 he claims that he wants to use the Keyblade....I don't need to explain how retarded that is..especially with him currently owning the Masamune.

He was built up as a god and turned into a laughing stock of a villain at this point. However, I'll always view him as the toughest villain in Final Fantasy, as well as video game history. Of course, I'm ignoring his shortcomings when Square were just out of ideas.

 

[Unsung]

"Sephiroth" in Advent Children was not at full power. He was just using Kadaj's body to its fullest, even then he still wounded Cloud pretty badly. Had it been the real Sephiroth then the results may have varied. I'm not saying that Cloud would have lost, though.

 

[Baron Van Wolfen]

"Sephiroth" in Advent Children was not at full power. He was just using Kadaj's body to its fullest, even then he still wounded Cloud pretty badly. Had it been the real Sephiroth then the results may have varied. I'm not saying that Cloud would have lost, though.

There's a small error in your post though.

Actually Kadaj does not have a body. He puts materia in his arms, he is an embodiment of sephiroth's will.

Sephiroth's body in ACC is made of jenova cells multiplied by accelerated rates from the scanter jenova cells in the box.

It's all explained in case of the lifestream. Sephiroth was at full power in ACC(the creators state that ACC sephiroth is the strongest thing in existance). He fought and won, but the plot won't have him losing to cloud obviously.

 

[Kelranox]

There's a small error in your post though.

Actually Kadaj does not have a body. He puts materia in his arms, he is an embodiment of sephiroth's will.

Sephiroth's body in ACC is made of jenova cells multiplied by accelerated rates from the scanter jenova cells in the box.

It's all explained in case of the lifestream. Sephiroth was at full power in ACC(the creators state that ACC sephiroth is the strongest thing in existance). He fought and won, but the plot won't have him losing to cloud obviously.

If that's the case, that annoys me. Simply because developers understand that the majority fanbase can't handle controversy, the antagonists must always be defeated, no matter how inconsistent their individual storylines will become as a result. So, if you're ever in a discussion regarding Cloud and Sephiroth that eventually turns into a debate (as most do) anyone who is pro-Sephiroth will always lose because Cloud always edges him out, light over darkness and all that crap. I don't care how much someone may love or care about their friends, a stabwound is a stabwound >.>

-end rant

 

[Baron Van Wolfen]

If that's the case, that annoys me. Simply because developers understand that the majority fanbase can't handle controversy, the antagonists must always be defeated, no matter how inconsistent their individual storylines will become as a result. So, if you're ever in a discussion regarding Cloud and Sephiroth that eventually turns into a debate (as most do) anyone who is pro-Sephiroth will always lose because Cloud always edges him out, light over darkness and all that crap. I don't care how much someone may love or care about their friends, a stabwound is a stabwound >.>

-end rant

Well yea i meant that sephiroth will lose because he is the bad guy

Though it is explainable that cloud can survive stabwounds, since he himself is a sephiroth clone.

Sephiroth will basically lose due to plot, and cloud will only get stronger due to plot.

 

[Unsung]

Hm, maybe Sephiroth wasn't weak but Cloud was just strong. He did have two years to improve plus his progress in the original game.

 

[Baron Van Wolfen]

Hm, maybe Sephiroth wasn't weak but Cloud was just strong. He did have two years to improve plus his progress in the original game.

Indeed. Tifa, vincent, the creators and even sephiroth remarks cloud has grown stronger.