Are Phoenix Downs Cheap?

[Aztec Triogal]

Not like costly, as in a monetary unit... I mean are they a cheap gameplay mechanic. Sure they're convenient and a staple of the series, but just think how freaking annoying it is when you go up against a boss that can regenerate limbs or allies. It sucks... big time. So isn't it logical that it's pretty cheap of you to use Phoenix Downs in a battle?

But maybe it's not the players fault. After all, that's the way it's the way SE designed it. But maybe the mechanic is still cheap in a general sense... instead of you versus an enemy of equal skill, in the FF world, your troop of characters always seems to face off against monsters far superior to you... except you can just revive any fallen characters at any point.

So is it SE that's cheap for not having developed a more complex system that allows you to participate in more life or death realistic situations? Or is that just the nature of the game?

 

[Ness]

I think, especially in terms of boss fights (where you hopefully use your highest percentage of Phoenix Downs), that it's just the nature of the beast. You're oftentimes fighting an enemy that has a lot more HP than any one of your individual characters, and has a wider range of attacks at their disposal. As such, since your party is easier to kill than the average enemy...it's only fair that you have the ability to bring them back from KO status.

And it's not like they don't have their disadvantages...Phoenix Downs are usually some of the most expensive/rare items (at least in the first half of the game) and they only revive your party members partially...leaving them vulnerable to attack.

 

[Icarus]

If games were going to be life or death, then extra lives would be nonexistant.
But yeah, it is kind of cheap of SE to give you all those extra lives. In most games, they don't come cheap (Mario could only get one per level in the original SMB). However it allows inept players a crutch to help them train.

 

[Estella Vanilla]

but just think how freaking annoying it is when you go up against a boss that can regenerate limbs or allies. It sucks... big time. So isn't it logical that it's pretty cheap of you to use Phoenix Downs in a battle?

lol well maybe the enemy should have went shopping before the battle to prepare. He should have purchased potions and phoenix downs. However, since it's usually one boss versus three, having a phoenix down is mighty pointless. =P (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think very rarely people actually use phoenix downs anyway, unless they're killing undead)

instead of you versus an enemy of equal skill, in the FF world, your troop of characters always seems to face off against monsters far superior to you... except you can just revive any fallen characters at any point.

Well it is unfair to have 3 against 1 which is generally how fights run. Or the opposite and have 3 against 6. But no situation in the game is difficult to beat by any means. RPGs seem more story oriented than fight oriented.

So is it SE that's cheap for not having developed a more complex system that allows you to participate in more life or death realistic situations? Or is that just the nature of the game?

Most RPGs are like this, not just the SE ones. It's the nature of the genre. If you want a more "realistic" game of death, play Resident Evil or something. At least when someone uses a chain saw your head falls off and you automatically die. XD Though fighting Zombies is pretty unrealistic and actually killing large amounts of them and living is quite unrealistic.

I guess what I'm trying to say here with all my words is that no game is too difficult for a player to succeed. Some games have difficulty settings if you want it to be more "skill" oriented, but goodluck living. XD

 

[Vladislak]

Well they're really just a way to balance things out. Bosses often have far more health than you do. If they have four times more HP than you do, then it's like they have three phoenix downs that automatically are used when they die.


Plus enemies don't go through battle after battle, either they beat you and don't have to worry about at thing, or they loss and it's over anyway. The characters on the other hand either lose to the enemy and it's over anyway, or they win but still have to be concerned with the next battle and the battle after that and the battle after that.

Going through twelve consecutive battles without phoenix downs is pretty ludicrous. Assuming that these battles are challenging of course. If they aren't challenging then it's not the phoenix downs fault, it's the designers fault for not balancing things out.

Not to mention, early on in the old school games phoenix downs weren't exactly cheap when you first started. Often times it wasn't until you'd played for quite a bit that you could seriously spend your money on them.

 

[strifehart]

i don't think they're cheap to use. i think it's just the nature of the game. but they do have their disadvantages. when you revive, you only have a small amount of hp, so you can easily be taken down again. and a lot of the time, magic that can revive you can only be used a limited number of times. so there's that.

i usually never use phoenix downs just cuz i dont' feel like remembering to stock up and what not. plus i feel like it's a waste of money that could be used to buy better equipment, etc. i usually don't use magic either, unless it's a boss battle. i generally tend to feel like if i can't beat a monster with brute force/strength, i don't deserve to win.

 

[Six]

I actually like the Phoenix Downs, xD They're just a fun way of reviving is how I see it. xD... I dunno I guess I can only see the fun side of it, 'cause of cause there's also the materia Revive, but I only really use Phoenix Downs, if anything, I think it was original. =/

 

[Marshy]

I don't think that Phoenix Downs are cheap at all. I mean, sure it would be annoying to have to fight an enemy that repetively used them, but they don't make it so that it's impossible to move. Like strifehart said, they only give you a tiny bit of health, which can sometimes even do nothing. A lot of times that you use it, the character will just die again. To add to that, you have to be careful when using it seeing as the item is usually fairly expensive to purchase.
I tend to use them a lot in a game like Final Fantasy Tactics, because if you don't heal the dead character before he turns to a crystal or treasure chest, then that character is gone forever.

 

[Joyful Blue]

The idea of only being able to use them in the main menu (and therefore not in combat) is step that could be taken that would certainly tone their power down quite a bit. Having them a little rarer such as Megalixirs and not being able to buy them could also make them a little less overpowered.

 

[Rockman X]

Not like costly, as in a monetary unit... I mean are they a cheap gameplay mechanic. Sure they're convenient and a staple of the series, but just think how freaking annoying it is when you go up against a boss that can regenerate limbs or allies. It sucks... big time. So isn't it logical that it's pretty cheap of you to use Phoenix Downs in a battle?

What? You're completely contradicting yourself. If a boss can regenerate limbs, then all you're doing by having phoenix downs is leveling the playing field. And what about all the bosses that have instant KO attacks?

Honestly the only cheap thing about Phoenix Downs is that when they revive you, they restore so little health to you that you could immediately die again if you were hit.

But maybe it's not the players fault. After all, that's the way it's the way SE designed it. But maybe the mechanic is still cheap in a general sense... instead of you versus an enemy of equal skill, in the FF world, your troop of characters always seems to face off against monsters far superior to you... except you can just revive any fallen characters at any point.

The games wouldn't be much fun to play if all you fought were equal matches. Where's the challenge and reward in that?

So is it SE that's cheap for not having developed a more complex system that allows you to participate in more life or death realistic situations? Or is that just the nature of the game?

They're RPGs bro, nothing realistic about them to begin with. If I can call down meteors from the sky and summon skanky ice goddesses and dragons, then I really don't consider Phoenix Downs that out of place.

 

[Aztec Triogal]

I'm not really contradicting myself because I was never making a point to begin with, just posing a question. And I guess to limit it to only Phoenix Downs is a bit skewed. I guess I was just wondering if people found being able to revive party members a bit cheap, especially when most bosses and enemies don't have that ability. To stress that point, I was trying to illustrate it by reminding people how frustrating it can be when a boss or enemy does have that ability.

To further the discussion, would it seem weird if this ability to revive party members were implemented in other games? If you were playing Fallout 3 and you keeled over dead... but your sidekick could just revive you, wouldn't that seem a little odd? If you were playing Halo but your teammate threw a magic feather on you that instantly revived you and saved your K/D ratio?

 

[Marshy]

Well in Call of Duty 5, when you play Coop Mode with a friend and you get killed, he can revive you and it has to be in a certain amount of time. Also in Gears of War 2, you can heal a teammate when there dead or dieing. So to your second question, yes i could see shooters having things that can revive your teammate, considering there already is a few that have it.

 

[M1ghty Mous3]

Without Phoenix Downs, FF would be (for the most part) virtually unbeatable. It allows the player the ability to get back up on their feet and continue the game after a long grueling boss battle.

I don't see them as cheap to use at all. I don't recall a boss I had used many on. It was either I died altogether or I was able to press forward. The only boss I planned on using one on was the LIfa Tree. But even then i can understand if a player uses one on him. I must have been somewhat under leveled for that area. I had to use them practically after every enemy encounter.

But overall, I find them cheap in the slightest. Now level up potions....that's another story.

 

[Rockman X]

I'm not really contradicting myself because I was never making a point to begin with, just posing a question. And I guess to limit it to only Phoenix Downs is a bit skewed. I guess I was just wondering if people found being able to revive party members a bit cheap, especially when most bosses and enemies don't have that ability. To stress that point, I was trying to illustrate it by reminding people how frustrating it can be when a boss or enemy does have that ability.

Ah, okay, I get you now. Honestly though, I haven't had to use phoenix downs on many bosses. And um...yes...it can be frustrating when a boss can regenerate or whatever...does that mean we're supposed to sympathize for the boss or something? Cuz that's what it looks like you're doing. I don't care if it's frustrating for the boss.

The only cheap application of the phoenix down is when you use it on an undead boss, like the Iifa Tree or the second form of Evrae instead of fighting legitimately. But hey, what can I say, I'm lazy.

Well in Call of Duty 5, when you play Coop Mode with a friend and you get killed, he can revive you and it has to be in a certain amount of time. Also in Gears of War 2, you can heal a teammate when there dead or dieing. So to your second question, yes i could see shooters having things that can revive your teammate, considering there already is a few that have it.

I lol'd.

I don't see them as cheap to use at all. I don't recall a boss I had used many on. It was either I died altogether or I was able to press forward. The only boss I planned on using one on was the LIfa Tree. But even then i can understand if a player uses one on him. I must have been somewhat under leveled for that area. I had to use them practically after every enemy encounter.

Don't forget Ozma...good god, now that guy was cheap, attacking three times in a single turn. When you face someone like that, you pretty much DO need phoenix downs. The Iifa Tree (yes, it's really spelled with two I's, I'm not making a typo) was kinda tough if you didn't have alot of phoenix downs or MP...that was one of the few places where I actually find Garnet and Eiko useful.

 

[Prince Oberyn Martel]

I don't see reviving characters with Phoenix Down's as cheap as you have to spend a characters turn to use it, and in many battles you may have to chose wisely as and when you do so. Revive now or hold off and attack? Is it worth reviving?....It adds a bit of strategy to things more.

 

[Dirges for Damcyan]

It depends -- In the early ORIGINAL releases of the game they were so rare to find and expensive to buy that they were not cheap -- just a "get out of jail free" card to bail you out when you were midway through the temple of fiends the second time around and would not be able to go forward or backward without one.

In the later games and re-releases they appear so frequently and so inexpensively to maybe begin to creep into the "cheap" range.

 

[JaketheSnake]

Simply put, it's a video game. I could leave it there, but I'll emphasize. There's extra lives in all sorts of games. If you add the HP of all your guys, it might not equal the HP of your opponents. Maybe that makes it valid for revivals. I dunno. But you could also bring up the point that when you fight certain enemies, it's cheap that it's 3 on 1 (Like Seifer). How does beating Seifer 3 on 1 prove that Squall is better? It doesn't. It's a video game.

 

[Oerba Yun Fang]

Downs merely revive someone who is knocked out, not dead. Regurgitating limbs is a very different thing

 

[Big Casino]

Nope not at all, they have to be there. First time round playing the game it would have been near impossible for me to have beaten the bosses without the use of phoenix downs, life magic etc. Theyre there to aid you in battle just like softs, antidotes, echo screens etc etc. If the player does find them to be 'cheap he can always set his own goals and decide to play through the game without using any phoenix downs at all.

 

[Addaam]

Well they make the bosses hard so you have to use them. A game like Fire Emblem where when a unit dies, then s/he's dead for good kinda sucks because it can happen a lot (especially if you like to go ahead in side quests to get the best items). Good points were the fact that they don't heal by much and that you need to use them at the right time or they're useless.

There's definitely a evening out the way that some monsters can kill in one hit. Even when (in the newer FF's) a boss can petrify you then almost instantly give you a physical attack to shatter you.