Bahamut + Ending

[Rockman X]

Do Not Read Unless You Want Spoilers

My apologies if there's a thread like this, but there shouldn't be since I did a search for one in the XII section. Now, onto my silly opinions that don't matter!

What I thought of the Bahamut: for an uber 1337 legendary sky fortress...it looked pretty unintimidating, and rather impractical as well.

What I thought of Gabranth: aside from Balthier and Fran, he was probably the most interesting character in the game. I liked him. Pretty weak for the head Judge though...

What I thought of Vayne: wow, totally forgot he even existed, you barely hear about him through the bulk of the story. At his first transformation I thought I was watching Dragon Ball Z. Then his fusion with Venat and the resulting metallic structure built around him reminded me of the infamous Japanese cyber punk movie Tetsuo the Iron Man.

What I thought of fighting Vayne and his attacks: he hit pretty weak, and also thanks to the Crystal and Aegis shields I was able to block half his attacks, both physical and magick. As for his uber attacks...I don't understand this game. Both your quickening attacks and Vayne's attacks look uber 1337 (especially Vayne's)...but they're all weak as hell. Powerful-looking attacks should be powerful, not leave you going "did that even do any damage?"

What I thought of the ending: I'm hugely disappointed by the ending. It was anticlimactic, involved too much talking and frankly, it was boring. Nobody grew any closer to each other during the game, I certainly didn't gain any attachment to the characters, and everyone pretty much goes their own way. The most I felt during the ending was "oh no, I hope Fran and Balthier don't die, they're the only ones I like..." I was hoping they'd at least throw in something cool for the secret ending...but much to my dismay, after sitting through the credits there was NO secret ending. At least Penelo got a new outfit..

I suppose in the end, the only feeling I'm left with is ripped off. All the work and time (127 hours) I put into this game and the ending leaves me feeling empty. And why is there a trend in FF games for the end boss to be weak? Sephiroth was weak, Kuja and Necron were weak, Yu Yevon was weak, Gabranth and Vayne were weak...I can't speak for VIII but it wouldn't surprise me if the end boss was weak too.

Blah. So what say you fine people? What thought all you of the ending?
​

 

[Ilyena]

I always thought Ghis was the head judge. I mean, he had the gold armor and all. But yes, I did love Gabranth. I thought he was a great character. Although I can't agree with you about Fran; I didn't find her interesting at all and didn't really care whether she lived or died.

The Bahamut just looked strange to me and Vayne was a pushover (all forms). His second form was the creepiest by far. I liked Vayne as a character though. I thought he was a good villain and I liked the relationship between him and Larsa.

I thought the scenes that were shown while the party is boarding/aboard the Bahamut were great though, mostly because they had a lot of Ondore in them.

I was pretty underwhelmed by the ending myself but I'm guessing they were really just setting up for the sequel. Although I did like the bit with Basch, Larsa and Gabranth.

And yes, Ultimecia (end boss from VIII) was weak too.

 

[Rockman X]

I didn't pay enough attention to know who the head judge was, i just assumed it was Gabranth since he's the most prominent.

The scenes were nice enough. I don't know why they didn't put more FMVs in this game though, or at least why they didn't make the existing ones LONGER...christ, there were ones that lasted for like 10 seconds. I agree with you though, i did like the relationship between Vayne and his sister *cough* oh wait, Larsa's a boy, i keep forgetting <.<

OH! Another thing i forgot to mention that really irked me was how at the Ridorana Cataract, then later again in Bahamut, Balthier is like "i'm the leading role" and stuff like that. WTF? It's like the characters actually realize they're in a game. And then Fran tells him on the Bahamut "you're more of a supporting role" so it's like the game is poking fun at itself. GAY.

 

[Ilyena]

I don't think it was ever clearly stated. I just saw the gold armor and figured Ghis was the top dog as far as judges go.

Balthier really irritated me with all that leading man crap. I mean, who walks around saying that?

I agree with you though, i did like the relationship between Vayne and his sister *cough* oh wait, Larsa's a boy, i keep forgetting <.<

Don't bash poor Larsa. It's not his fault the designers put him in heeled shoes and stockings and gave him a girly haircut. I actually never mistook him for a girl though.

 

[Daenerys]

I liked the ending, although Ashe's sudden feelings for Balthier just appeared out of nowhere O_O i liked the narration and Penelos new outift+hair rocked. And i ADORE kiss me goodbye, it's a beautiful song

and for the record, i too always assumed Ghis was the Judges Leader, he is the most active one at the start of the game after all.

 

[JDawg]

If you don't mind, I'm just going to hit the same points you did. I'll add a couple of my own, too.

What I Thought of Bahamut: I thought it looked wicked, but the way they were all talking about it, I was expecting a MONSTER. I guess they at least stayed consistant, with all the old monsters just being the names of ships. But still, they all acted like Bahamut was a living thing, not a sky fortress. As for the practicality of it? I guess given the melodramatic nature of the series, and the fact that Bahamut IS supposed to be the biggest, baddest whatever it's supposed to be, it fits that it was a huge f'n ship.


What I Thought of Gabranth: H'es introduced as a villian early in the game, then as a sympathetic character...which is confusing, and he doesn't actually do anything for most of the game. And his association with Basch is very limited considering the story. I don't know. Sometimes in this game, I found myself thinking they bit off far more than they could chew.


What I Thought of the Ending: Not a disappointment, really. Sort of par for the course as far as FF games go. It was sappy, kinda cheezy, and kinda cute all at the same time. I think it was very cool that Ashe doesn't end up being buddy-buddy with the crew. I mean, she is the queen, and they are commoners. I liked that once the whole thing was over, Balthier and Fran split, just like they would have if they were real sky pirates. I'm glad Bathlier gave the ring back, too.

I'm glad Basche is a Judge, but it sort of goes against what he had been doing for the whole game. I guess I felt a lot of the story was rushed.

What I Thought of Vayne: Vayne was a well-drawn character, who had logic behind a lot of his actions...for the most part. I like how he tries to protect Larsa for the bulk of the game because he really loves his brother, but then tries to kill him just the same later on.

And to see him just as another pawn for the rebel Occura was kinda cool on it's own, but very disappointing in the long run. I suppose, as the story plays out, it makes sense, but it just made me feel like I was fighting the underboss, and not the guy who I was told was the baddest man on the planet for 90 hours.



Overall: I'd have to say that I was at first very upset with the battle system, but warmed to it later. Then, in the final stages of the game, when I was at high-levels and very in-tune with how the gambit system worked and all that, the system made the game FAR too easy. What was a murderously hard game early on became a walk in the f'n park in the exact stages when it should be the hardest. If you level to 60 (I was 70) you literally don't have to touch a button in the last four fights.

My biggest complaint is that the story becomes 100% more complex in the last hour of the game. Rather than giving us a nice twist at the end, Square completely overhauled the storyline so close to the end of the game that it ended up being muddy and confusing rather than neat and satisfying.

Like, Reddas being introduced was obviously a big deal, but we find out he's Zecht...which is ALSO cool, but we never even SAW Zecht, and he only got a mention or two in the entire game!

I'd say it was really fun to play for 80% of the game, then really boring, and the story just jumbles at the end. Good effort, beautiful game, and mostly-fun battle system for the bulk of the game.

 

[eisprinz]

I pretty much agree with everything VR said. It's really incongruous that Vayne and the majority of the main party was not as interesting as Gabranth or even Dr. Cid.

 

[Rockman X]

What I Thought of Bahamut: I thought it looked wicked, but the way they were all talking about it, I was expecting a MONSTER. I guess they at least stayed consistant, with all the old monsters just being the names of ships. But still, they all acted like Bahamut was a living thing, not a sky fortress. As for the practicality of it? I guess given the melodramatic nature of the series, and the fact that Bahamut IS supposed to be the biggest, baddest whatever it's supposed to be, it fits that it was a huge f'n ship.

I thought the same exact thing too, even though i'd heard before that the Bahamut was a ship, they way they talked about made me think it just had to be a monster. But no...it was a giant floating screw

What I Thought of Gabranth: H'es introduced as a villian early in the game, then as a sympathetic character...which is confusing, and he doesn't actually do anything for most of the game. And his association with Basch is very limited considering the story. I don't know. Sometimes in this game, I found myself thinking they bit off far more than they could chew.

I really like how he stuck by Larsa as a loyal protector and didn't challenge Vayne until he saw Larsa wounded (i could have sworn he was KILLED, it looked that way). They really could have done more with him being Basch's brother, though.

What I Thought of Vayne: Vayne was a well-drawn character, who had logic behind a lot of his actions...for the most part. I like how he tries to protect Larsa for the bulk of the game because he really loves his brother, but then tries to kill him just the same later on.

And to see him just as another pawn for the rebel Occura was kinda cool on it's own, but very disappointing in the long run. I suppose, as the story plays out, it makes sense, but it just made me feel like I was fighting the underboss, and not the guy who I was told was the baddest man on the planet for 90 hours.

Him attacking Larsa just made no sense. He'd held Larsa in such high regard throughout the game, even though they didn't see eye to eye, and then he just turned on him. I guess they did that to get you pissed at him, since he doesn't do anything else in the game to make you hate him.

I really liked the Occuria subplot...but...i actually sympathized with Venat, Cid, and Vayne, and i'm not sure it's a good thing in games where you sympathize with the ones you're fighting.

Overall: I'd have to say that I was at first very upset with the battle system, but warmed to it later. Then, in the final stages of the game, when I was at high-levels and very in-tune with how the gambit system worked and all that, the system made the game FAR too easy. What was a murderously hard game early on became a walk in the f'n park in the exact stages when it should be the hardest. If you level to 60 (I was 70) you literally don't have to touch a button in the last four fights.

My biggest complaint is that the story becomes 100% more complex in the last hour of the game. Rather than giving us a nice twist at the end, Square completely overhauled the storyline so close to the end of the game that it ended up being muddy and confusing rather than neat and satisfying.

Like, Reddas being introduced was obviously a big deal, but we find out he's Zecht...which is ALSO cool, but we never even SAW Zecht, and he only got a mention or two in the entire game!

I'd say it was really fun to play for 80% of the game, then really boring, and the story just jumbles at the end. Good effort, beautiful game, and mostly-fun battle system for the bulk of the game.

The last 4 bosses...well i touched the controller about half the time, and that's because that nasty gambit glitch kept popping up and people weren't doing what they should have, or i'd be switching out equipment on the fly.

The story picked up sooo much around the time you were introduced to Reddas, which only pissed me off further because they tried to jam so much into the very end. It was so unbalanced, i don't know why they couldn't have more evenly spread it out. I think that's part of what makes me so disappointed in the ending, by the time the story gets really interesting, it's over.

 

[Lirael]

I didn't mind the ending, myself. The main aim of XII was not to focus on characters, but the main story of the war. The characters were used more to discover the story than be part of it. Ashe seems like a huge part, but when you look at the scale of war, she's not. She's just one princess in a world of destruction. Think of us, the gamers. We're not part of the story, yet we hear about and discover the story. I think the characters were like that, too. They were just average people. It wasn't their story. It was Ivalice's.

 

[Ilyena]

Him attacking Larsa just made no sense. He'd held Larsa in such high regard throughout the game, even though they didn't see eye to eye, and then he just turned on him. I guess they did that to get you pissed at him, since he doesn't do anything else in the game to make you hate him.

I really liked the Occuria subplot...but...i actually sympathized with Venat, Cid, and Vayne, and i'm not sure it's a good thing in games where you sympathize with the ones you're fighting.

Larsa did draw his sword first. I think in the end though, Vayne realized that he and Larsa would never see eye to eye.

I don't think it's a bad thing to have sympathy for the villain. In fact, I like having a villain with some sympathetic qualities. It makes them more human.

 

[Misty]

What I thought of the Bahamut: Could have done with more floors to explore. Probably my only gripe with the ship.

What I thought of Gabranth: He wasn't the head judge. He was the head of his specialist section probably, but they were all the same level Magisters. Probably one of my least favourite judges, but that doesn't mean he was a poor character. Felt sorry for him, that he went the way he did, because he deserved another shot at life.

What I thought of Vayne: wow, totally forgot he even existed, you barely hear about him through the bulk of the story. At his first transformation I thought I was watching Dragon Ball Z. Then his fusion with Venat and the resulting metallic structure built around him reminded me of the infamous Japanese cyber punk movie Tetsuo the Iron Man.

What I thought of fighting Vayne and his attacks: If I didn't have a Bubble Belt, I would have been screwed somewhat. And if anyone wants to complain about easiness, I beat Sephiroth under level 60 without KOTR in VII, was level 45 for when I defeated Vegnagun and Shuyin. FFIX first time, I seriously overlevelled.
Graphically, his fights/special moves were amazing. I escaped easily, rather easily, because of my bubble belt. I would have had more trouble if I didn't have Bubble Belts on me at the time. Funnily enough, I also remember hearing/seeing him a fair bit in game. Weird how people see things differently..
He's a different "villain", not the general emohadacrappylifeandnowwantstokillallofhumanityanddestroytheworld kinda person, he wants to achieve something different, but like all men in power, the power eventually got to him.


What I thought of the ending: Hm, one is trying to think of how many other FF's have a secret ending...hm, maybe, not a lot? So I don't see why this should be an issue. This is probably one of the better endings out of the series. X-2's were terribly cheesy, IX and X's were alright, but nothing too amazing. VIII's was decent, had a lot of substance in it, but kinda dragged on a bit. XII's tidied things up, it was nice, it had hints of sadness in it, and I liked how it went. Though I secretly wish Ghis would just pop out of nowhere and be all alive and stuff >.>...


Vayne wasn't my favourite boss ever, he's in my top 3 at least, maybe second. Ultimecia + Griever from VIII are my favourite final bosses in FF history. Even though you only saw them pretty much at the end, they were so fun to fight, and all the music going towards the fight was just awesomesauce.

General boss favourite? Dr. Cid for shure <3

 

[Ilyena]

Though I secretly wish Ghis would just pop out of nowhere and be all alive and stuff >.>...

Haha. When the Leviathan went down, I was hoping for Ghis' miraculous survival. Alas, it wasn't to be.

 

[Rockman X]

I don't think it's a bad thing to have sympathy for the villain. In fact, I like having a villain with some sympathetic qualities. It makes them more human.

Oh no, there's nothing wrong with that at all, it's just that i liked Cid and Venat and Vayne's motives and agreed with them...so i was just kinda left with a feeling of "why the hell am i fighting these guys?"

What I thought of the Bahamut: Could have done with more floors to explore. Probably my only gripe with the ship.

I seriously thought it was gonna be a dungeon O_O Then you get in and Ashe even tells you to NOT fight everyone but to just head straight to Vayne, i was like okaaaay. I'm still glad it wasn't though, because after the Pharos i do not want ANY part in dungeon crawling EVER again

What I thought of Vayne: wow, totally forgot he even existed, you barely hear about him through the bulk of the story. At his first transformation I thought I was watching Dragon Ball Z. Then his fusion with Venat and the resulting metallic structure built around him reminded me of the infamous Japanese cyber punk movie Tetsuo the Iron Man.

My quote <.< Did you mean to quote me and agree/disagree with me?

What I thought of fighting Vayne and his attacks: If I didn't have a Bubble Belt, I would have been screwed somewhat. And if anyone wants to complain about easiness, I beat Sephiroth under level 60 without KOTR in VII, was level 45 for when I defeated Vegnagun and Shuyin. FFIX first time, I seriously overlevelled.
Graphically, his fights/special moves were amazing. I escaped easily, rather easily, because of my bubble belt. I would have had more trouble if I didn't have Bubble Belts on me at the time. Funnily enough, I also remember hearing/seeing him a fair bit in game. Weird how people see things differently..
He's a different "villain", not the general emohadacrappylifeandnowwantstokillallofhumanityanddestroytheworld kinda person, he wants to achieve something different, but like all men in power, the power eventually got to him.

Aye, those bubble belts were lifesavers. Let's see...even with those, i think Vaan died four times in the fight against Gabranth, and twice in the fight against The Undying. His moves looked amazing, but as i said, i think moves that look powerful should be powerful. I seriously thought each attack of his would leave my party with 1 HP left, but they only took off 1000 to 2000 HP, the only way you could get KOed is if you weren't healed up yet from a previous blast.

General boss favourite? Dr. Cid for shure <3

Dr. Cid is probably my favorite character from this game, i would have liked to see more of it. It sure was a pain in the arse fighting him and Famfrit at the same time, though. Thank god for Oil + Firaga.

 

[Edward Elric]

i always just assumed that gabranth was the leader because they called him the judge magister.

but TBH i thought that the ending to FFXII was the best part of the whole game, it was an awesome scene where gabranth died, it was sad though i was hoping he would live. i just wish they had shown more, like the part where vaan was going to meet up with...was it balthier? they weren't all that clear about where he was going but i think it was balthier. also i wish they had shown ashe's coronation.

and finally, along with AG and others im sure, i think that kiss me goodbye is one of the best FF theme songs.

 

[Ilyena]

i always just assumed that gabranth was the leader because they called him the judge magister.

All of the main judges were Judge Magisters.

Oh no, there's nothing wrong with that at all, it's just that i liked Cid and Venat and Vayne's motives and agreed with them...so i was just kinda left with a feeling of "why the hell am i fighting these guys?"

Ah, I see where you're coming from. I think it was not so much that there motives were wrong just the way they were going about them.

I seriously thought it was gonna be a dungeon O_O Then you get in and Ashe even tells you to NOT fight everyone but to just head straight to Vayne, i was like okaaaay. I'm still glad it wasn't though, because after the Pharos i do not want ANY part in dungeon crawling EVER again

I expected the Bahamut to be a dungeon too but I'm guessing the Pharos was so evil because it was really the final dungeon.

 

[Rockman X]

Ah, I see where you're coming from. I think it was not so much that there motives were wrong just the way they were going about them.

Yeah, i didn't agree with the way they were going about them and becoming too power hungry, but i admired them, especially Venat. I didn't like the Occuria because not only did they want to control human history, but they manipulated Ashe by using the vision of her dead husband. It seemed to me that Venat was the only good one out of the lot since he wanted to give humans the control of their fate back.

I expected the Bahamut to be a dungeon too but I'm guessing the Pharos was so evil because it was really the final dungeon.

Only thing evil about the Pharos was the length, that place was easy and the bosses were all pathetic jokes. Most of the normal enemies were tougher and even then, if i got too overwhelmed i could just use my handy dandy Warp spell.

Off topic, here, but did anyone else find it extremely annoying how in the Pharos and Necrohal of Nabudis the undeads were friggin IMMUNE to white magic and phoenix downs?

 

[Ilyena]

Yeah, i didn't agree with the way they were going about them and becoming too power hungry, but i admired them, especially Venat. I didn't like the Occuria because not only did they want to control human history, but they manipulated Ashe by using the vision of her dead husband. It seemed to me that Venat was the only good one out of the lot since he wanted to give humans the control of their fate back.

I agree. And perhaps the Occuria were the real villains all along. Funny thing is, by destroying the Sun Cryst, Ashe ended up giving Venat and Cid what they wanted all along. The reins of history were back in the hands of man and the occuria no longer had the control.

Only thing evil about the Pharos was the length, that place was easy and the bosses were all pathetic jokes. Most of the normal enemies were tougher and even then, if i got too overwhelmed i could just use my handy dandy Warp spell.

That's precisely what I meant. I remember getting to the second ascent and thinking "Oh my god, there's more?" And with my obsessive-compulsive habit of mapping out every single portion of every single area....

Off topic, here, but did anyone else find it extremely annoying how in the Pharos and Necrohal of Nabudis the undeads were friggin IMMUNE to white magic and phoenix downs?

Yes. And I think the one's in the Barheim Passage were immune as well. Bastards. Although I think Holy worked on them but that's it.

 

[Rockman X]

I agree. And perhaps the Occuria were the real villains all along. Funny thing is, by destroying the Sun Cryst, Ashe ended up giving Venat and Cid what they wanted all along. The reins of history were back in the hands of man and the occuria no longer had the control.

I did like how she finally stood up to that stupid vision and thought for herself Still though, if i had been in their troupe and found out Cid/Venat/Vayne's motives, i woulda been like "see ya, i'm with them."

That's precisely what I meant. I remember getting to the second ascent and thinking "Oh my god, there's more?" And with my obsessive-compulsive habit of mapping out every single portion of every single area....

Oh dear lord, you poor thing And the Pharos were so horrible in that you couldn't even run away from anything because it was such a maze and you'd only end up falling into another group of enemies, so it was easier to just kill everything.

Yes. And I think the one's in the Barheim Passage were immune as well. Bastards. Although I think Holy worked on them but that's it.

Well that would be helpful except that you can't get Holy till after the Pharos

Back to the ending, what'd everyone think of Penelo's new outfit? While it looked silly, i MUCH preferred it to her ugly banana outfit.

 

[Ilyena]

Well that would be helpful except that you can't get Holy till after the Pharos

Back to the ending, what'd everyone think of Penelo's new outfit? While it looked silly, i MUCH preferred it to her ugly banana outfit.

Good point. I just remember using holy on the undead in the Necrohol of Nabudis and the Barheim Passage, but of course, that was after the Pharos.

I didn't like her outfit in the ending but I agree, it looked better than what she wore in the game. Except the in-game shoes were better. I actually was not a fan of much of the clothing in the game, particularly that of the Dalmascan Soldiers and the main party. If anyone wondered why the Dalmascans were slaughtered, just look to the "armor" those soldiers were wearing.

 

[Rockman X]

I didn't like her outfit in the ending but I agree, it looked better than what she wore in the game. Except the in-game shoes were better. I actually was not a fan of much of the clothing in the game, particularly that of the Dalmascan Soldiers and the main party. If anyone wondered why the Dalmascans were slaughtered, just look to the "armor" those soldiers were wearing.

All the outfits in the game were hideous, especially those of Vaan, Reddas, Penelo, and Basch.

I kinda thought Penelo's new outfit was a cheap lead-in to Revenant Wings...but either way, it looked better.