Calling all Atheists

[Tethar]

As an existentialist I can only accept the existence of something if I can sense it with at least one of my five senses. I can not sense any form of god as most religions put forth the idea of with any of my senses so I can not accept the existence of any of those gods.

I don't have any faith in either science or religion but looking at the history of them both I am more prepeared to side with science as science never claims absolute truth accepted scientific fact is changed on an almost daily bases while religions claim absolute truth always even though there is no proof that any religion is true. Science at least tries to discover the truth of a matter even if it is thought the truth is already known.

 

[Finnegan III]

As an existentialist I can only accept the existence of something if I can sense it with at least one of my five senses. I can not sense any form of god as most religions put forth the idea of with any of my senses so I can not accept the existence of any of those gods.

I don't have any faith in either science or religion but looking at the history of them both I am more prepeared to side with science as science never claims absolute truth accepted scientific fact is changed on an almost daily bases while religions claim absolute truth always even though there is no proof that any religion is true. Science at least tries to discover the truth of a matter even if it is thought the truth is already known.

Mm necro thready.

That's a good point actually. However if scientific fact changes so frequently, one may have trouble putting their faith in science if they're looking for the absolute truth behind our existence and such.

While as I've learned it's near impossible to find the absolute truth behind things, it's still worth trying instead of going for some half measure. This being said I'm not religious either.

 

[Tethar]

Personally I don't believe there is such a thing as absolute truth, not as what religions claim anyway. I can accept there are somethings in existence that are constant perhaps or constantly change and are constant in that aspect.

However this idea of absolute truth in terms of our place in existance or some sort of higer meaning is sadly just one of those stories people tell themselves like religions because they can't accept that existence is totally random and life is meaningless and devoid of purpose.

 

[Finnegan III]

Personally I don't believe there is such a thing as absolute truth, not as what religions claim anyway. I can accept there are somethings in existence that are constant perhaps or constantly change and are constant in that aspect.

However this idea of absolute truth in terms of our place in existance or some sort of higer meaning is sadly just one of those stories people tell themselves like religions because they can't accept that existence is totally random and life is meaningless and devoid of purpose.

That's a bit too nihlistic if you ask me. Naturally I sometimes think the same way but it's a bit extreme. I know life is entirely random, but there is some constency in it, we just haven't found it yet, just alot of half truths and easy answers.

 

[Tethar]

That's a bit too nihlistic if you ask me. Naturally I sometimes think the same way but it's a bit extreme. I know life is entirely random, but there is some constency in it, we just haven't found it yet, just alot of half truths and easy answers.

Well I am a nihilist, an Existential Nihilist to be precise. It may seem extreme but who's to say existence is not extreme? There are plenty of things in this world and in space that people call extreme and of course extreme is just the opinion some people have and not all agree with it. Just because some people may find the idea of a meaningless existence extreme does not mean it isn't true.

The problem with seeing consistency in existence is the same as seeing design, and that is that it is us seeing it.

Perception is everything and perception is flawed.

When we look at things we see patterns in them because our minds naturally try to put things into patterns to make it easier to understand.

Consistency is just a word, and what it implies is just the manner in which you look a things not how those things actually are.

 

[Erythritol]

Meh. I still don't understand why science and religion cannot peacefully coexist. Call me crazy, I guess.

Honestly, I don't think that religions really claim to have any "absolute truths" other than the belief that God exists. At least the non-extremist sects don't. The damn extremists always tarnish the reputation of the entire religion. I'm not religious by any means, but I think Christianity tends to take a lot of badmouthing that it doesn't really deserve.

I don't think science will ever be able to definitively prove that God does not exist. Hell, I don't think that it'll even be able to come up with evidence to support the idea that God does not exist. Religion will always be around.

I basically agree with this Einstein quote: "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

EDIT:

Oh god, nihilism. Sorry but nihilism is fucking lame. If everything is random and nothing matters, why don't you just commit suicide? I honestly don't understand or care to understand nihilism/nihilists. As for the human mind just sorting things into patterns...ever taken a look at a physics book? There are some pretty extreme patterns in there. Sorry to disappoint, but things are designed so intricately and adhere to such an intense "pattern" that to call it random is just insane. It's some pretty brilliant randomness if you ask me.

 

[Jazzel]

I basically agree with this Einstein quote: "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Wasn't taking about religion in the traditional sense I'm afraid. Was talking more in terms of how humans appreciate the universe and feel emotion. For example, I might describe the Sun scientifically as a yellow, relatively medium sized, hydrogen fueled star, emitting electromagnetic waves and heat; or I might describe it "religiously" in emotional, poetic terms.

This sort of thinking was put into more eloquent words in Ayn Rand's introduction to the 2nd edition of The Fountainhead. Go read the book if you haven't already - great read.

 

[der Astronom]

Meh. I still don't understand why science and religion cannot peacefully coexist. Call me crazy, I guess.

Honestly, I don't think that religions really claim to have any "absolute truths" other than the belief that God exists. At least the non-extremist sects don't. The damn extremists always tarnish the reputation of the entire religion. I'm not religious by any means, but I think Christianity tends to take a lot of badmouthing that it doesn't really deserve.

It also takes badmouthing for contradictions in the bible, and particular bits of morality that aren't really moral or otherwise reveal God's character to be horrible and not really worth it. Although you may feel free to disagree.

It also takes badmouthing for the things it says which encouraged certain people to initiate things like the Crusades and the Inquisition.

I don't think science will ever be able to definitively prove that God does not exist. Hell, I don't think that it'll even be able to come up with evidence to support the idea that God does not exist. Religion will always be around.

No actually, the evidence that God does not exist or is redundant is in the fact that every discovery we have made so far in terms of the real world and science is that they can be done and explained without God. There has been no discovery in which our research is significantly flawed without the presence of God. As for "proving" that God does not exist, science is not required to do this on the premises that science is not a tool for proving, but rather for supporting theories with evidence or disproving theories that fail to meet certain criteria. Math is best suited for proving though, but it also dwells in the realms of abstraction.

EDIT:

Oh god, nihilism. Sorry but nihilism is fucking lame. If everything is random and nothing matters, why don't you just commit suicide? I honestly don't understand or care to understand nihilism/nihilists. As for the human mind just sorting things into patterns...ever taken a look at a physics book? There are some pretty extreme patterns in there. Sorry to disappoint, but things are designed so intricately and adhere to such an intense "pattern" that to call it random is just insane. It's some pretty brilliant randomness if you ask me.

Not really. If you mean like patterns in a snowflake, that's not brilliance; that's just a property of a water molecule, which tends to form lattices when it's at a particular temperature. Perhaps it's not "random", but such a structure does not indicate brilliance so much as an intrinsic property which explains the way we see it. Perhaps the only reason you consider it to be "brilliant" is because it is "beautiful"--but remember--beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and is not a suitable criteria for determining "brilliance" in an objective manner. Thus if you say that kind of "randomness" is brilliant, it would only be a subjective opinion, and has no merit in either science or convincing others that God exists.

 

[Donald Trump]

all religions deserve all the bad mouthing they get and more. religion is built on lies and false promises.

Oh god, nihilism. Sorry but nihilism is fucking lame. If everything is random and nothing matters, why don't you just commit suicide? I honestly don't understand or care to understand nihilism/nihilists.

there is no meaning to life. whatever we do has no real effect on anything ever. its naive to think otherwise

 

[Erythritol]

Well, sorry if I didn't get the memo that we weren't talking about religion in the "traditional" sense, seeing how this thread is in the, um, religion section. Also, what you're talking about has absolutely nothing to do with religion. Describing things utilizing non-scientific and more emotional terms is more of a literary thing than a religious thing. See the Romantic poets for more info

It also takes badmouthing for contradictions in the bible, and particular bits of morality that aren't really moral or otherwise reveal God's character to be horrible and not really worth it. Although you may feel free to disagree.

It also takes badmouthing for the things it says which encouraged certain people to initiate things like the Crusades and the Inquisition.



No actually, the evidence that God does not exist or is redundant is in the fact that every discovery we have made so far in terms of the real world and science is that they can be done and explained without God. There has been no discovery in which our research is significantly flawed without the presence of God. As for "proving" that God does not exist, science is not required to do this on the premises that science is not a tool for proving, but rather for supporting theories with evidence or disproving theories that fail to meet certain criteria. Math is best suited for proving though, but it also dwells in the realms of abstraction.



Not really. If you mean like patterns in a snowflake, that's not brilliance; that's just a property of a water molecule, which tends to form lattices when it's at a particular temperature. Perhaps it's not "random", but such a structure does not indicate brilliance so much as an intrinsic property which explains the way we see it. Perhaps the only reason you consider it to be "brilliant" is because it is "beautiful"--but remember--beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and is not a suitable criteria for determining "brilliance" in an objective manner. Thus if you say that kind of "randomness" is brilliant, it would only be a subjective opinion, and has no merit in either science or convincing others that God exists.

Um, wow, the Crusades and the Inquisition were so....15th century. Maybe people can get the fuck over it soon? And big deal, there are contradictions. It's a very old text that was compiled over several centuries, and has been translated hundreds of times over. I've found that the people who bash the Bible are relatively ignorant. They generally haven't read it, or if they have, they don't really grasp it very well. But I digress.

Oh wow, you mean it doesn't rain because God is crying? Really? Yes, science is wonderful and can explain many phenomena once attributed to God. No one will argue with that. However, you can simply say, "It was God's design." I'm not really religious, but I'm getting a bit sick of people who worship science as a religion calling non-atheists ignorant. The fact of the matter is, you can use your science all you want to explain how things happen, but science ultimately doesn't answer the question of WHY. Studying science, specifically biology, has only reaffirmed my belief in some sort of higher power. I suppose it's difficult to explain but the way that living things function so smoothly-- with autotrophs producing the chemicals necessary for the respiration of heterotrophs and vice versa-- is very impressive. Life seems to mesh unbelievably well. Yes, I know millions of years of evolution will do that to you, but that evolution exists at all is relatively astounding. The complexity of life, either at a molecular or systematic level, is amazing. To just shrug is off as random is sort of silly to me.

When I said patterns, I meant physics formulas that have been shown to be relatively constant. Math formulas too. If life/the earth were so random, things wouldn't adhere to such strict formulas and patterns. I don't really have an interest in convincing people of God's existance. I'm simply saying that to worship anything blindly is stupid, religion or science. Also, to me, claiming that God doesn't exist is as ridiculous as claiming that He/She/It does. Neither party has proof. It's sort of a moot argument.

And Nihilism is stupid. I wish all the Nihilists would just kill themselves if they think life is so random and pointless. Or y'know, write some poetry that doesn't rhyme about it.

 

[Donald Trump]

the bible is the best selling fiction book ever. all of it is made up.
the bible supports slavery. and slavery is disgusting.
also religion says no abortion, which leads to christians blowing up abortion clinics and killing innocent people

Um, wow, the Crusades and the Inquisition were so....15th century. Maybe people can get the fuck over it

really? so it was in the past? so was the holocaust should people get the fuck over that? or maybe you think it doesnt exist?

And Nihilism is stupid. I wish all the Nihilists would just kill themselves if they think life is so random and pointless.

tell me what the meaning of life is then?

write some poetry that doesn't rhyme about it

poetry having to rhyme... so 18th century i wish people would get over it

 

[Erythritol]

the bible is the best selling fiction book ever. all of it is made up.


really? so it was in the past? so was the holocaust should people get the fuck over that? or maybe you think it doesnt exist?


tell me what the meaning of life is then?


poetry having to rhyme... so 18th century i wish people would get over it

Please stop failing at life so hard. Okay, I'll go through this slowly.

You're one of those people who hasn't ever read the Bible but is going through the very adorable "I HATE RELIGION!!!" phase because it's oh so super trendy now! The Bible is, in fact, not all fiction, and pieces of it are based on both historical events, real people, and previous literature. It is actually a beautiful piece of literature. Of course, you're too ignorant and misinformed to realize all of this. You just see extremist Christians, and label the entire religion as horrible. That's not only ignorant, but really offensive too! Christianity itself is a beautiful religion. Unfortunately, there are extremists who pervert it into something horrible. Believe it or not, this is not exclusive to Christianity. So hey, before you knock the Bible, why don't you get off your little high horse and fucking have some sort of clue what you're talking about first. Kthx.

The Holocaust...hmm. Yes, I really do see your point. 67 years is really comparable to 600 years. Out of curiosity, do you have any concept of time? Last I checked, no one who was harmed by the Crusades or Inquisition was still alive. Holocaust survivors...sort of another story. Nice try but fail.

Me? I don't know the meaning of life, nor do I claim to. But I hate little whiny ass Nihilist bitches, walking around being like "it's all pointless...it's all chaotic...nothing we do matters...I'm such a little intellectual philosopher." Okay, really? So do the world a favor and swallow some poison. You wanna see chaos? Travel outside of your comfortable little first world country, and visit a country that knows what chaos is. Things matter. Life matters. Actions matter. Giving a homeless person a dollar is a very small act, but it matters to that person. It's not something groundbreaking that is going to change the world, but it changes that person's world, if only for a small time. Existentialism is much better philosophy, and one that I really agree with. You create meaning. Sitting there, masturbating over your little pseudo-intellectual theories over a nice Starbucks coffee or in the dark of your room...you're right, your life is completely useless. People who do something, who try to make a difference-- their lives aren't useless.

...If you were trying to be witty with that last line.....um....try harder please.

 

[Donald Trump]

ive read the bible. have you?
yeah i do have a concept of time, and a better understanding of it than you. time is relative, just because something happened 600 years ago or 65 or 2000 years ago doesnt change the significance of it. christianity isnt beautiful, its a fucking farce and a way to control people.
religion is the opium of the masses.
we are all going to die. nothing we do changes that.
open your eyes and see that you arent creating anything, you are just giving some money away so you can feel better about yourself.
people who try to change things arent useless but what they do doesnt matter. they may increase someones standards of living, but that person is still going to die

 

[Erythritol]

ive read the bible. have you?
yeah i do have a concept of time, and a better understanding of it than you. time is relative, just because something happened 600 years ago or 65 or 2000 years ago doesnt change the significance of it. christianity isnt beautiful, its a fucking farce and a way to control people.
religion is the opium of the masses.
we are all going to die. nothing we do changes that.
open your eyes and see that you arent creating anything, you are just giving some money away so you can feel better about yourself.
people who try to change things arent useless but what they do doesnt matter. they may increase someones standards of living, but that person is still going to die

You obviously didn't read it very hard or carefully. It's basically a religion of forgiveness and respect. It's a shame that people have used the Bible to twist it into something that it really isn't, but there will always be extremists destroying beautiful things. Honestly, the fact that you consider it to be entirely fiction displays your complete ignorance in the subject. It's true that religion can be used to control people, but consider this: sex can be something really beautiful. It can also be used to control or hurt people (rape). Does that mean you can label it as terrible? No. To do so is really narrow-minded. Christianity certainly has very humble roots and was not intended as a religion to control others. Greed destroys religion. Religion itself is not inherently bad.

Ah, quoting the lovely Karl Marx. Well, believe it or not, communism was, like religion, used to control people *gasp* It's true! Please see the history of Eastern Germany from the end of WWII to 1990. Also, y'know, the Soviet Union. Arguably, communism WAS a type of religion. By completely banning all religion, it was easier to control people; there was no competition for communism.

Also, my concept of time is perfect. We aren't talking about archaeological matters; we're talking about events that impacted human lives. There are people from the Holocaust who are still alive. There are no people who were directly affected by the Crusades or Inquisition still alive. It's about time that people got over the whole "BOO HOO CATHOLICISM WAS MEAN 600 YEARS AGO" and find something new to bitch about.

You're right, we are all going to die. So what? Big deal. That doesn't detract from life. To use a metaphor: it's like I'm eating cake-- eventually the cake is going to be gone, but that's not going to stop me from enjoying it while I can. I also don't help people to feel better about myself. This may be a difficult concept for a little emo Nihilist to understand, but I'm not completely self involved, and I actually CARE about other people. Though, I have noticed something about Nihilists. They tend to be relatively well-off in life, completely self involved, and essentially useless. People who have actual hardships and severe difficulties in life don't have time to sit around bemoaning the fact that everything is useless, and we're all going to die. In fact, I have an idea. Why don't you tell the millions of starving people across the world (and in the well-off Western countries) that their pain really doesn't matter, because they're going to die anyway, so why should they have food? In the end, whether they have food or shelter doesn't matter, because hey, they're gonna die eventually anyway! I'm sure they'll understand.

Your logic is made of fail.

 

[Rockman X]

yeah i do have a concept of time, and a better understanding of it than you. time is relative, just because something happened 600 years ago or 65 or 2000 years ago doesnt change the significance of it.

Actually the significance DOES change. People today aren't directly impacted by the Crusades or anything else. They're not suffering over it, they're not having loved ones killed for it.

christianity isnt beautiful, its a fucking farce and a way to control people.
religion is the opium of the masses.

What, and consumerism, advertising, and politics aren't? Come on, get real. There are things out there that have WAY more control over people's minds than religion. Take for example, peer pressure. The need to be trendy and fit in.

we are all going to die. nothing we do changes that.
open your eyes and see that you arent creating anything, you are just giving some money away so you can feel better about yourself.
people who try to change things arent useless but what they do doesnt matter. they may increase someones standards of living, but that person is still going to die

You depress me. I feel sorry for you.

No shit we're going to die, it's called *gasp* TIME!

Now as for creating things, she was using an example, and it's called CHARITY. I suppose you think creating something means building an invention to go back in time. No, by being charitable and kind to someone, you can create change in their life. You can change their day, you can give them a smile or some hope. No, it might not matter in the grand scheme of things, but it matters to that person you tried to help. Apparently the concept of charity goes over your head.

And to be honest, your view on life is completely emo and apathetic. "OMG WERE ALL GOING TO DIE WHY BOTHER!" Well gee, let me think. We're here, so rather than spending all our time moping about our eventual demise, why not try to ENJOY life and maybe spread some happiness to others while we're at it.

 

[Donald Trump]

do you actualy think that democracy doesnt control people?

nihilism isnt emo. if it were then they would have killed themselves and therefore wouldnt exist. me , im a hedonistic nihilist.

sex and religion, what a terrible analogy.

religion is based on people's beliefs and controlled by people. and to wish to control others makes religion bad because its controlled by greedy people and always will be. which means that religion as a concept is not bad, but when put into practice it is.

christianity doesnt have humble roots. since the beginning of christianity the christians have been persecuting the jews.

just because people arent directly effected doesnt mean its insignificant

 

[Rockman X]

do you actualy think that democracy doesnt control people?

Yeah, um, actually democracies and republics were created as ways for people to have a say in the government. Our nation (which was founded as a REPUBLIC, I might add) is totally corrupt now though, I'm well aware of it.

nihilism isnt emo. if it were then they would have killed themselves and therefore wouldnt exist. me , im a hedonistic nihilist.

BAAAAAWWWWWWW WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE NOTHING MATTERS ITS AL POINTLESS! Let me clue you in to something: that's emo. If you hadn't noticed, emo's don't kill themselves (much as I would like them to).

sex and religion, what a terrible analogy.

No, it wasn't, it just went over your head.

religion is based on people's beliefs and controlled by people. and to wish to control others makes religion bad because its controlled by greedy people and always will be. which means that religion as a concept is not bad, but when put into practice it is.

Um, circular reasoning much?

christianity doesnt have humble roots. since the beginning of christianity the christians have been persecuting the jews.

Go back to history class. Are you that fucking ignorant? Christianity originated from Judaism and Christians were the subject of persecution. Need I remind you that it was *ZOMG* the Jews who asked Pilot to crucify Jesus? Christianity originated as a passive religion, it was never about persecution. As a matter of fact, Christianity underwent alot of persecution. Ever heard of Nero? Probably not. Learn your history and STFU.

just because people arent directly effected doesnt mean its insignificant

Alright, fine. You tell me how The Crusades are significant in this day and age. Tell me how they are significant to me, a 20 year old guy living in America who has no religion. How do they affect my life? They don't.

 

[Erythritol]

do you actualy think that democracy doesnt control people?

nihilism isnt emo. if it were then they would have killed themselves and therefore wouldnt exist. me , im a hedonistic nihilist.

sex and religion, what a terrible analogy.

religion is based on people's beliefs and controlled by people. and to wish to control others makes religion bad because its controlled by greedy people and always will be. which means that religion as a concept is not bad, but when put into practice it is.

christianity doesnt have humble roots. since the beginning of christianity the christians have been persecuting the jews.

just because people arent directly effected doesnt mean its insignificant

Aww, you're cute. You think what we have is a democracy? Bless your little heart.

If all emos killed themselves, there wouldn't be any emos. And looking around, there are STILL emos around. Nihilism is the most useless emo philosophy that exists. It's just whining about how life is pointless. What do emo kids do best?

I used sex an analogy to show you how something that can be good can also be used for bad. I'm sorry you were intelligent enough to understand that. Next time, I'll try to get some visuals, like a drawing or maybe some puppets to act out the concept.

Nowadays, religion doesn't control anyone. Last time I checked, I didn't have a holy crusader at my door forcing me to convert. Do you live in 15th century Europe by any chance, or are you with us in the 21st century? Also, religion was not all bad, even back in the day. Religion also played an unbelievably important part in politics in Europe for a long time-- especially the figure of the Pope-- but I won't get into that.

Okay, you clearly don't know shit about Christianity. It has very humble roots. They haven't always been persecuting the Jews. They were persecuted along with the Jews. Please buy yourself a history book.

 

[Donald Trump]

you need to buy a history book. the jews had a choice to kill jesus, who called himself the king of the jews which meant he was a rival to the pilot, and therefore was causing a lot of trouble for the jews. they were asked who should be killed jesus or a guy who was a murderer, they choose jesus, not persecution, self preservation.

it is a terrible analogy sex is the act of reproducing, is that even similar to religion? no. your analogy is an example of power corrupting.

learn your history, christians wernt the only ones killed by nero, and so what they were persecuted all religions have been.

the crusades were trying to recapture the holy lands, and the turks, who are muslims, had control of them, so they killed the muslims. which lead to the muslims resenting christians, which has esculated to some muslims killing christians. eg 9/11

They haven't always been persecuting the Jews

but they have been for a long time

 

[Rockman X]

you need to buy a history book. the jews had a choice to kill jesus, who called himself the king of the jews which meant he was a rival to the pilot, and therefore was causing a lot of trouble for the jews. they were asked who should be killed jesus or a guy who was a murderer, they choose jesus, not persecution, self preservation.

Hey! Guess what! YOU'RE WRONG. The Romans were in control of Israel. The Jews posed them no problem. Yeah, he called himself the King of the Jews. That was trouble for the Romans, not the Jews. It pissed off the Jews, yes, but it threatened the Romans.

it is a terrible analogy sex is the act of reproducing, is that even similar to religion? no. your analogy is an example of power corrupting.

Are you retarded? Sex IS power. Helloooo, we're not the same as other animals, we DON'T have sex just for the sake of reproducing. Men and women can use sexual attraction as power over the other. It can be used to control hormones, and most people aren't very good at keeping their hormones from influencing their mind.

learn your history, christians wernt the only ones killed by nero, and so what they were persecuted all religions have been.

Well no shit, sherlock. But what you are saying about Christians persecuting Jews, that is completely false. I don't know what gave you that idea, but get it out of your head. The Christians never tried to take Israel from the Jews, they never killed or enslaved the Jews. Try looking to the Muslims and Egyptians for that.

the crusades were trying to recapture the holy lands, and the turks, who are muslims, had control of them, so they killed the muslims. which lead to the muslims resenting christians, which has esculated to some muslims killing christians. eg 9/11

Wow. Just....wow. I'm speechless that you could make such a horribly broad, uninformed statement such as that. They didn't do it to kill Christians, if they wanted to do that they would have attacked churches. They hate America's lifestyle.

but they have been for a long time

No, they haven't. You are extremely misinformed. Christians have never persecuted the Jews. As a matter of fact, most Christians tend to look kindly on Jews since according to the Bible, they're God's chosen people.