Can Cetra Ancients do what Sephiroth does?

[Saints&Storms]

No, its not a stated ability of the Characters, never said it was, but we obviously see them doing such a thing, seeing is beliving in this case and if we see Aerith come back, physically touch something, while Sephiroth can also do it -- then she did it.
Yeah, and having a Character physically come back seems pretty damn cool to me. Seeing as they had Sephiroth did it why not another Ancient a protagonist Ancient as well? Ntohing says Aerith isn't back, seeing as you indeed have to be alive to call someone on the phone I am going to say she physically manifested as well, not to mention Aerith said she would come back, I'd take her word for it.

Yes, I have done lots of resaerch and reading up on Asian and Japanese cultures, I am actually learning Japanese. Sorry, all I have seen you do is throw out wild information that I've never even heard of mentioned in or about FFVII. And nothing I've ever read about Japanese culture says to assume people have Telepathy.

Have you some how lost in translation that this is a Fantasy? If Sephiroth can manifest as long as Cloud live why not Aerith? Aerith is a Cetra/Ancient, she shares the same sort of bond with Cloud that Sephiroth does only positive.

Haven't read much FFVII have you? As long as a Remnant of Aerith exists then she can materialize just as Sephiroth does, She is likely using Cloud solid connection to her and his refusal to let her be just a memory to come back. Its a Fantasy, remember magical thing happen in those...literally.

You want me to take information from the constantly edited Final Fantasy Wiki? Not a very reliable source I'll have you know. Sephiroth also controlled Cloud in FFVII. Again why do you belive Aerith who is the more superior Ancient can't do this as well, split remnants of her soul for her physical manifestation?

No, Cloud was a Regular Joe, then he got experimented on by Hojo, then he became anything but regular.

No, those books are translated on key, Supervised by Square Enix themselves and an Author was hand picked, I think I'll take their publishing's over your theories any day.

I never said he controlled them through Geostigma, I said he can control them because they have Jenova Cells same as Hojo's experiments on Cloud.

Jeez dude, cool down, yeah? Why do you assume Aerith can't do the same thing Sephiroth does, when Aerith is an Ancient too, She is seen talking to kids and seen by everyone and in Maiden ponders if she can do what Sephiroth does? Yet nowhere is it stated she has Telepathic abilities, you are saying this by your own admission alone.

What Sephiroith does isn't far fetched because its a Fantasy and that's what Ancient can do, Aerith is also an Ancient, why is this so hard for you to see? >.>

Its easier for you to assume Aerith is Telepathic than to simply make the natural answer and say "Oh, Sephiroth can do these things because he's and Ancient, Aerith is also an Ancient -- Naturally she would have these abilities as well."

Its Cloud we're speaking of not the Planet and Telepathy isn't when you make a physical appearance for everyone to see, its sending messages afar using thoughts or feelings. Tele in Telepathe means "Afar" anyway.

Ancients have the Ability to speak with the planet, not speak to the living by coming back as a Ghost or empty shell or else Aerith would have done that with her deceased Mother, but no, Ancients can speak to the Planet and Other Ancients, Aerith clearly states in FFVII she could speak to her mother from the Church as well as the Planet.

 

[Baron Van Wolfen]

No, its not a stated ability of the Characters, never said it was, but we obviously see them doing such a thing, seeing is beliving in this case and if we see Aerith come back, physically touch something, while Sephiroth can also do it -- then she did it.
Yeah, and having a Character physically come back seems pretty damn cool to me. Seeing as they had Sephiroth did it why not another Ancient a protagonist Ancient as well? Ntohing says Aerith isn't back, seeing as you indeed have to be alive to call someone on the phone I am going to say she physically manifested as well, not to mention Aerith said she would come back, I'd take her word for it.

Yes, I have done lots of resaerch and reading up on Asian and Japanese cultures, I am actually learning Japanese. Sorry, all I have seen you do is throw out wild information that I've never even heard of mentioned in or about FFVII. And nothing I've ever read about Japanese culture says to assume people have Telepathy.

Have you some how lost in translation that this is a Fantasy? If Sephiroth can manifest as long as Cloud live why not Aerith? Aerith is a Cetra/Ancient, she shares the same sort of bond with Cloud that Sephiroth does only positive.

Haven't read much FFVII have you? As long as a Remnant of Aerith exists then she can materialize just as Sephiroth does, She is likely using Cloud solid connection to her and his refusal to let her be just a memory to come back. Its a Fantasy, remember magical thing happen in those...literally.

You want me to take information from the constantly edited Final Fantasy Wiki? Not a very reliable source I'll have you know. Sephiroth also controlled Cloud in FFVII. Again why do you belive Aerith who is the more superior Ancient can't do this as well, split remnants of her soul for her physical manifestation?

No, Cloud was a Regular Joe, then he got experimented on by Hojo, then he became anything but regular.

No, those books are translated on key, Supervised by Square Enix themselves and an Author was hand picked, I think I'll take their publishing's over your theories any day.

I never said he controlled them through Geostigma, I said he can control them because they have Jenova Cells same as Hojo's experiments on Cloud.

Jeez dude, cool down, yeah? Why do you assume Aerith can't do the same thing Sephiroth does, when Aerith is an Ancient too, She is seen talking to kids and seen by everyone and in Maiden ponders if she can do what Sephiroth does? Yet nowhere is it stated she has Telepathic abilities, you are saying this by your own admission alone.

What Sephiroith does isn't far fetched because its a Fantasy and that's what Ancient can do, Aerith is also an Ancient, why is this so hard for you to see? >.>

Its easier for you to assume Aerith is Telepathic than to simply make the natural answer and say "Oh, Sephiroth can do these things because he's and Ancient, Aerith is also an Ancient -- Naturally she would have these abilities as well."

Its Cloud we're speaking of not the Planet and Telepathy isn't when you make a physical appearance for everyone to see, its sending messages afar using thoughts or feelings. Tele in Telepathe means "Afar" anyway.

Ancients have the Ability to speak with the planet, not speak to the living by coming back as a Ghost or empty shell or else Aerith would have done that with her deceased Mother, but no, Ancients can speak to the Planet and Other Ancients, Aerith clearly states in FFVII she could speak to her mother from the Church as well as the Planet.

I wouldnt compare sephiroth's creation of his remnants to aerith always appearing to cloud on a white background, with flowers. Sephs remnants were much more prevalent in the physicall world, they dont even actually have a body they are just manifestations of seph's will.

Remnant of aerith???? Im sorry but that sounds like fanfiction to me. Aerith has a bond with everyone she is alluded to be the "mother" of the planet. As per she appears to little random children and cloud, and everyone else. It's much more probable she's comunicating mentally to everyone to through the lifestream. Or as Dragon Mage has already said, she's a spirit.

And please dont compare seph's power to the one of an ancient; he and cloud are above the lifestream it's self in the end of FF7, and seph even more so by ACC.

Dude, no one here is raging or angry, i would also get irritated after repeating myself a gazzilion times.

Seph can actually touch cloud because he does have a body, he regenerates it from those few cells. It's never even alluded in the ultimania that ancients can materialize back. It is stated that they are travellers of the lifestream and can use the planet's power.

Also Maiden was written off of the canon. Too many inconsistancies.

 

[The Witch]

Maiden is canon, bud. Just' sayin'.

 

[Baron Van Wolfen]

Maiden is canon, bud. Just' sayin'.

Really man????? I mean it's got a really big number of inconcistancies. And it hasnt been mentioned in official sources since after it's realease. I mean just look at the wiki it's self:

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Hoshi_wo_Meguru_Otome

"Because many points in the novella are contradicted by first party materials and it's never listed in any of the Compilation lists, it has been rendered non-canon though an official statement on the matter has never been given."

It....It just cant be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[The Witch]

Really man????? I mean it's got a really big number of inconcistancies. And it hasnt been mentioned in official sources since after it's realease. I mean just look at the wiki it's self:

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Hoshi_wo_Meguru_Otome

"Because many points in the novella are contradicted by first party materials and it's never listed in any of the Compilation lists, it has been rendered non-canon though an official statement on the matter has never been given."

It just cant be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lmao, dude, that particular wikia page is edited by a bunch of fans that won't accept Maiden as canon for OTHER reasons. The truth of the matter is, that Nomura and SE supervised Benny as he wrote the book, and they HAND PICKED him to write this novella. Benny has also written countless other novellas/ultimanias/books for other FF titles. It's canon. And also, because of newer installments, FFVII is ALSO contradicted, doesn't mean it's not canon anymore, right? Right.

(btw, less usage of FFwikia page, it's not always right)

 

[Saints&Storms]

Really man????? I mean it's got a really big number of inconcistancies. And it hasnt been mentioned in official sources since after it's realease. I mean just look at the wiki it's self:

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Hoshi_wo_Meguru_Otome

"Because many points in the novella are contradicted by first party materials and it's never listed in any of the Compilation lists, it has been rendered non-canon though an official statement on the matter has never been given."

It....It just cant be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Crisis Core contradicts FFVII, doesn't make it any-less Canon. And lmao at Wiki, because its FAN Made. While Maiden was supervised and aided by SE itself.

So there you go that answers that.

I wouldnt compare sephiroth's creation of his remnants to aerith always appearing to cloud on a white background, with flowers. Sephs remnants were much more prevalent in the physicall world, they dont even actually have a body they are just manifestations of seph's will.

What the hell? Aerith Materializes in the Church at the end of Advent Children, she even talks to some children, calls the children and families of Edge to the Church in Midgar, I wasn't even talking about Aerith bringing Cloud to the promised land.

\And again Aerith states in Maiden that she could possibly do the same.

Remnant of aerith???? Im sorry but that sounds like fanfiction to me. Aerith has a bond with everyone she is alluded to be the "mother" of the planet. As per she appears to little random children and cloud, and everyone else. It's much more probable she's comunicating mentally to everyone to through the lifestream. Or as Dragon Mage has already said, she's a spirit.

Spirits can't touch, she isn't mentally making an image of herself for everyone to see she obviously has the power to materialize things as an Ancient, how else would Zack be there?

And please dont compare seph's power to the one of an ancient; he and cloud are above the lifestream it's self in the end of FF7, and seph even more so by ACC.

Sephiroths an Ancient isn't he? Aerith says in Maiden that that's an ability of Ancient and wonders if she can do it as well.

You're just not listening are you?

For all intents and purposes, this 'psionic' construct would appear to be a totally solid, real, human being. So no 'as though she were there' or anything -- it'd definitely be like she was there. Except we -- the audience, knows that she really ISN'T there in complete body like the one she was born with.

Okay? Since when, in any of my MANY explanations, have I EVER said that she wouldn't be able to interact with the real world? WHEN? Oh. That's right.

This kinda seems like getting a little pissed to me, all I said was to calm down, he seems to be getting very pissed off.

Seph can actually touch cloud because he does have a body, he regenerates it from those few cells. It's never even alluded in the ultimania that ancients can materialize back. It is stated that they are travellers of the lifestream and can use the planet's power.

Then what would be the point of Aerith wanting to do the same? Why is it stated that Sephiroth can return as long as there is darkness in Cloud/or as long as Cloud is there?

 

[Baron Van Wolfen]

Lmao, dude, that particular wikia page is edited by a bunch of fans that won't accept Maiden as canon for OTHER reasons. The truth of the matter is, that Nomura and SE supervised Benny as he wrote the book, and they HAND PICKED him to write this novella. Benny has also written countless other novellas/ultimanias/books for other FF titles. It's canon. And also, because of newer installments, FFVII is ALSO contradicted, doesn't mean it's not canon anymore, right? Right.

(btw, less usage of FFwikia page, it's not always right)

I really couldn't care what the fans reasons were man, i merely used the wiki to as evidence to reinforce the point i was making about inconsistancies.

They might have handpicked the guy, but they didnt supervise all of his work, and obviously it came out as inconsistant, contradicting some CC, ACC, and FF7 canon. And the fact that creators just omit maiden from official sources since release seems even more evidence that they changed their mind and maiden is inconcistant with the real canon. I dont remember FF7 being contradicted either by CC or ACC, even DoC.

Keep in mind when mentioning maiden that it's canocity is doubtfull.

And i really, really dont want to discuss this as it will result in nothing but derailing the thread and a gigantic flame war as that either sides will never reach a conclusion. So let's just agree to disagree

Edit To respond above:

What the hell? Aerith Materializes in the Church at the end of Advent Children, she even talks to some children, calls the children and families of Edge to the Church in Midgar, I wasn't even talking about Aerith bringing Cloud to the promised land.

\And again Aerith states in Maiden that she could possibly do the same.


I've already explained this. Why didnt anybody else see her then??? Why the white background??? How is Zack there too, you think he materialized as well? She can appear in everyone's mind if she wants, create illusions, visions through the lifestream, or she is a spirit. She's shown no physicall interaction at all to the world. People reacting to her is not physicall interaction. Her calling people is also related to her use of the lifestream. I already said maiden is inconsistant.

Spirits can't touch, she isn't mentally making an image of herself for everyone to see she obviously has the power to materialize things as an Ancient, how else would Zack be there?


So you do think she materialized zack. Prove she isnt using telepathy, and prove ancient's have the power to materialize(seph is>>>>>>>ancients). It's much more probable than she becoming physicall with zack. Why wouldnt she interact with cloud more, why does she dissapear instantly? Seriously, telepathy is the best bet here.

Sephiroths an Ancient isn't he? Aerith says in Maiden that that's an ability of Ancient and wonders if she can do it as well.

No seph is not an ancient. He gained their knowledge in the lifestream, but he himself is above it, he and cloud have more willpower than the whole effin' planet. Again, you put to much faith in a text with too much contradiction. IMO it's ludicrous to think aerith would be breaking up her soul and sending it to gaia, as well as doing that to zack just to talk 5 seconds or so to cloud, when seph's remnants have definite physicall interaction to the world.

Then what would be the point of Aerith wanting to do the same? Why is it stated that Sephiroth can return as long as there is darkness in Cloud/or as long as Cloud is there?

It's never stated that. Seph=Cloud's darkness is Kingdom Hearts plot. Because aerith can telepath maybe??? She has no cell's to materialize into, neither does zack. She can touch cloud only in his mind.

 

[Lebreau]

Sephiroths an Ancient isn't he?

I haven't read Maiden, I haven't watched ACC, I haven't read most of the other novellas. I've played FFVII and most of Crisis Core and Dirge of Cerberus. There's the extent of my knowledge other than what I've read on wiki, which has been dismissed as a source anyways.

Sephiroth is

Spoiler

not an Ancient. When they found Jenova, they thought she was a Cetra but she was some sort of alien foreign to their planet. Lucrecia, Sephiroth's mother, agreed to having her child injected with Jenova cells while she was pregnant. Sephiroth himself thought he was an Ancient, but he wasn't, in any way. He's a hybrid of a human and whatever sort of alien Jenova was.

 

[Saints&Storms]

I haven't read Maiden, I haven't watched ACC, I haven't read most of the other novellas. I've played FFVII and most of Crisis Core and Dirge of Cerberus. There's the extent of my knowledge other than what I've read on wiki, which has been dismissed as a source anyways.

Sephiroth is

Spoiler

not an Ancient. When they found Jenova, they thought she was a Cetra but she was some sort of alien foreign to their planet. Lucrecia, Sephiroth's mother, agreed to having her child injected with Jenova cells while she was pregnant. Sephiroth himself thought he was an Ancient, but he wasn't, in any way. He's a hybrid of a human and whatever sort of alien Jenova was.

Sephiroth is an Ancient, I could have sworn. Look what he says here;

Sephiroth: The Jenova Project wanted to produce people with the powers of the Ancients... no, the Cetra. ...I am the one that was produced.

Sephiroth
"An Ancient named Jenova was found in the geological stratum of
2000 years ago."

Aerith
"I..."
"The Ancients..... Cetra.... Jenova...... Sephiroth and
myself....."

 

[Baron Van Wolfen]

Sephiroth is an Ancient, I could have sworn. Look what he says here;

Sephiroth: The Jenova Project wanted to produce people with the powers of the Ancients... no, the Cetra. ...I am the one that was produced.

Indeed, that's when they thought Jenova was an ancient. But Jenova herself is above the ancients.

 

[Lebreau]

Sephiroth is an Ancient, I could have sworn. Look what he says here;

Sephiroth: The Jenova Project wanted to produce people with the powers of the Ancients... no, the Cetra. ...I am the one that was produced.

He's.. no. Even if he has the powers of an Ancient, that does not make him one. Just because he says something doesn't mean it's true. He believed he was an Ancient, so of course he'd say that.

I'm pretty positive he's not. Jenova wasn't either, she was a alien, ot of the FF7 planet and not an Ancient. If he was

Spoiler

injected with Jenova cells

, that doesn't make him an Ancient.

Spoiler

It makes him some sort of hybrid of Jenova and a human.

 

[Baron Van Wolfen]

Sephiroth has become Jenova in FF7/ACC. He may knowledge the ancient's had, but he most definitely is not an ancient. And he most definitely can do things Ancient's never dreamed of. Like i said, by the end of FF7 he was going to outwill the entire planet and it's lifestream(essentially minerva), and cloud defeated him in a battle of will. Having his own lifestream and such, also being a superior lifeform and a Demi-god(by FF standards) helps.

 

[The Witch]

I really couldn't care what the fans reasons were man, i merely used the wiki to as evidence to reinforce the point i was making about inconsistancies.

They might have handpicked the guy, but they didnt supervise all of his work, and obviously it came out as inconsistant, contradicting some CC, ACC, and FF7 canon. And the fact that creators just omit maiden from official sources since release seems even more evidence that they changed their mind and maiden is inconcistant with the real canon. I dont remember FF7 being contradicted either by CC or ACC, even DoC.

Keep in mind when mentioning maiden that it's canocity is doubtfull.

And i really, really dont want to discuss this as it will result in nothing but derailing the thread and a gigantic flame war as that either sides will never reach a conclusion. So let's just agree to disagree

No, man, they supervised him while he wrote it. They looked at it then decided to publish it. For them to publish it, that means they accepted what he wrote. And, yes, there's plenty of contradictions in CC and DoC.

What the hell, they don't omit crap? What are you talking about? The only thing they've ever said ISN'T canon is the anime movie for CC.

 

[Baron Van Wolfen]

No, man, they supervised him while he wrote it. They looked at it then decided to publish it. For them to publish it, that means they accepted what he wrote. And, yes, there's plenty of contradictions in CC and DoC.

What the hell, they don't omit crap? What are you talking about? The only thing they've ever said ISN'T canon is the anime movie for CC.

Like i said, they read it, and later changed their minds. What i mean by omission is that after it's release it is never brought backup in other official soures. And i dont remember many contradictions, not so many as in maiden. Also LO is considered canon as it is mentioned in official sources(guidebooks for example), while maiden never is after it's release.

And again, i really dont feel like discussing this, just let's agree to disagree.

 

[Baron Van Wolfen]

The thought of aerith splitting her souls(and zack's) just to talk a few seconds to cloud, then dissapear(do you see kadaj dissapearing out of nowhere?) is just ridiculous.

Also aerith has no means of materializing or transfering anything to cloud(people try to use aerith appearing in the megaflare and the greenlight as her transfering something to him, when it was simply aerith's vision fading in front of cloud into the lifestream, she was in his mind to help him emotionally as a last push froma avalanche, she didnt interact or help him in any physicall level).

The most obvious thing i see here is that aerith was producing visions in people's minds trough the lifestream. She appeared as a vision to cloud and to those children, as she can communicate with the lifestream and the lifestream can influence people.

Really people shouldnt even try to say ancients can do the things seph can do, the guy is above everything according to the creators.

 

[Ilyena]

Everyone, let's please try and keep the discussion civil. Surely you can argue your points without rudeness and name-calling. Thanks.

 

[Channizard]

Sephiroth's will is above everything else, his will is so strong that nothing could conquer it. It's what makes him stronger than everything else. <- That's what the creators have said about Sephiroth before, HOWEVER Aerith's will is know to be almost as strong and to rival Sephiroth's, as she's a Cetra. We can't really say one is stronger than the other because one's a Cetra and the other is practically an Alien demonchild, so they're both strong (wills) in their own different ways.

That being said I still don't understand why it's so far'fetched to assume that because Sephiroth could split his will into three tangible entities, why Aerith, who could hold her will strong enough to maintain her spirit whole in the Lifestream, could not do the same, sans splitting.

Thats all I'm sayin' man. Why? Why can't one do, what the other can if they're equally powerful with their minds and spirits?

...also CC, LO, DoC not contradicting VII: Original is funny. Every one of those titles contradicts and retcons VII in their own way that doesn't make Maiden any less different. Whole situations where switched around and changed, people were involved that we didn't know existed.. and were THERE in these changed situations like

Spoiler

Genesis being present at the Mako reactor when Sephiroth goes berserk on Cloud and Zack.

That event is THE MOST contradicted and retconned event in the game because it happens differently in LO, CC, BC (I'm sure) from what ACTUALLY happened in VII.

 

[Baron Van Wolfen]

Sephiroth's will is above everything else, his will is so strong that nothing could conquer it. It's what makes him stronger than everything else. <- That's what the creators have said about Sephiroth before, HOWEVER Aerith's will is know to be almost as strong and to rival Sephiroth's, as she's a Cetra. We can't really say one is stronger than the other because one's a Cetra and the other is practically an Alien demonchild, so they're both strong (wills) in their own different ways.

That being said I still don't understand why it's so far'fetched to assume that because Sephiroth could split his will into three tangible entities, why Aerith, who could hold her will strong enough to maintain her spirit whole in the Lifestream, could not do the same, sans splitting.

Thats all I'm sayin' man. Why? Why can't one do, what the other can if they're equally powerful with their minds and spirits?

...also CC, LO, DoC not contradicting VII: Original is funny. Every one of those titles contradicts and retcons VII in their own way that doesn't make Maiden any less different. Whole situations where switched around and changed, people were involved that we didn't know existed.. and were THERE in these changed situations like

Spoiler

Genesis being present at the Mako reactor when Sephiroth goes berserk on Cloud and Zack.

That event is THE MOST contradicted and retconned event in the game because it happens differently in LO, CC, BC (I'm sure) from what ACTUALLY happened in VII.

No, i really dont believe aerith's will has got anything on sephs man. The only one who's will has got anything on seph's is cloud's, seeing as he once overpowered him and has mental blocks strong enough to resist seph's control through jenova cells in ACC. Seph is also the strongest meele fighter ever but that's beside the point.

Every one can maintain theyre spirit whole in the lifestream man, the difference is ancients can travel it and interact with the planet. She can interact wit the lifestream in certain levels, as she indulges he planet through communication to use the lifestream to destroy meteor. However Seph is on a whole other level.

Point is ancients have got nothing on seph. Seph is stronger by the creators words, he was going to subjulgate the entire lifestream(something the ancients are merely travelers of, their own power stems from the planet and the lifestream), he kept holy back with is will, he avoided dissolution in the lifestream(something no ancient has done, they all return to the planet). Ancients were almost exterminated by jenova herself, and guess what seph became jenova, and later overwilled her. For goodness sakes seph has his own lifestream in ACC, no ancient can even begin to compare to his will. Aerith's will is strong in the way it communicates with the planet, and her ancient heritage. Her best feat is her great gospel which managed to cure geostigma, which was a bunch of stray uncontrolled jenova cells. No, i really dont believe aerith's will is even close to as powerfull as cloud's or seph's, since she herself is second to the lifestream(minerva), and cloud and sephiroth where above that in the end of FF7.

Take these transcripts from case of the lifestream(http://thelifestream.net/ffvii-adve...-smile-lifestream-black-and-lifestream-white/) as to how different in power sephiroth was to Aerith right after he died

- "Because it would be dangerous for her to come in contact with him, the woman tried to keep away from the man’s consciousness. Because of this, she couldn’t learn much of the man’s plot."

Aerith is scared to even come in contact with seph's will, right after he died, this seph was in it's self stronger than the planet, abov the lifestream as he avoided dissolution in it, twice.

- "and it was too much for her to bear. She rushed through the Lifestream in search of other souls to help her."

She needs help from other spirits to try and keep the souls seph's pure will was infecting from not dissoluting into the lifestream.

-"Eventually the woman discovered that the man, spreading hatred around the world, was trying to manifest on the surface. She wondered how he was planning to do that. Summoning up all her courage she approached the man’s spirit. However, he spotted her and chased her off, but soon gave up chase. She knew the man was laughing at her. You can’t do anything."

She had to summon up all her courage to even come near seph's will(something cloud faced head on and defeated, is stronger than the planet it's self). And then she fled, afraid. He stopped chasing her eventually.

No really i cant cater to the idea that aerith's will is anything near seph's. All she could even do was heal geostigma and leave the seph-killing to cloud. She could also maintance the infection caused by seph's will, though she was overwhelmed and needed help from other spirits.

Also take a look at this exerpt from case of the lifestream: "He was apparently going to use separate entities to be his agents. The woman asked herself if she could do the same. However, she soon changed her mind. Even if it were possible, I want to meet Cloud the way he knows me."

Aerith herself admiting its IMPOSSIBLE. She cant do the things seph can do. Not even close.

Effectively proven: Aerith's will is nowhere near seph's rival, that title belongs only to his nemesis: cloud.

IMO willpower scale goes basically like this:

Seph(ACC)>>Cloud(ACC)>>Cloud(FF7)>>Seph(FF7)>>Planet(minerva)>>Ancients>>metahumans>>humans

As i said please don try to compare the power of ancients to people who are above the planet it`s self. Sephiroth was going to subjulgate and take control of the planet after meteor exposed the lifestream. Before his will it`s self was beaten by cloud`s own wll.

I dont really remember, and please correct me if im wrong, that's not a contradiction, we had no way of knowing genesis was there from cloud's memories if i recall. They just added characters never seen before the plot, they didnt intere with the start of FF7 if i recall(please correct me if im wrong). And yes the seph stabbed cloud has been made thosands of different times, kinda annoying but whatcha gonna do, we can only assume they all play a part in the scene.

 

[sephiroth24300]

sephiroth more powerful than ancients

no, i do not believe ancients can do anything sephiroth can. sephiroth technically may not be an ancient, but he doesn't need to be! he is indeed above them. he was bred from jenova cells, while jenova itself is not an ancient, it wiped out all the other ancients. sephiroth inherited jenova powers, but because of all his hatred and will power, jenova never took control of him, instead sephiroth took control of jenova and used its' power to his advantage. plus he killed the last ancient who posed a threat.