Cloud isnt "EMO"

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Omegadruid

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So after having read a few opinions regarding Advent Children I think the character is getting unecessary hate for all the wrong reasons, If you didnt like the character to begin with that is fine but the purpose of this thread is to adress those who dislike AC Cloud.
Recently Ive come across a youtube comment that couldnt have expressed my thoughts better regarding this matter. here is the comment:
"Hey, come on. Cloud smiling is a big deal. Ever since he joined Shinra, his life has been hell and was even ruined. Losing your village, losing everything you believed in and becoming nothing more than an experimental lab rat, losing your best friend, losing AVALANCHE, losing your first love, being toyed with and used by the man who caused it all, you finally kill him but in the end contract a contagious and fatal disease and lose faith. Finally finding peace after all that?."

The change in Cloud's character to me is quite realistic in the transition to the movie.. Afterall he developed Geostigma.. Consider yourself going through all that and in the end get a disease like Cancer or aids comparing to real world diseases... Wouldnt you lose hope? Wouldnt you wanna just be alone and wait for your impending demise! Sure reactions to this kind of stuff vary from people to people but considering his back story there had been a lot more going on before and then after atleast moving a little bit forward that happens. To me Cloud is a very realistic and well constructed character. What are your thoughts on this? Do you think that people are being unfair and perhaps not looking at the subject at hand the way it should be.. Or perhaps you still stand by your opinion? If then explain why, I would like to turn this into a debate but dont insult each other for differing in views.

Also he could have seen the disease as some kind of punishment from the Planet since it was something related to the Lifestream.. Im not sure he knew that it was caused by Sephiroth's will still in the lifestream itself.. but after he supposedly discovered that he finally Smiled and moved on. He had all the reasons to be said to be honest..Sure if he hadnt contracted Geostigma he would have been a non depressed person. I wouldnt say happy because there was some serious shit going on that would take years to fully recover from but also he wouldnt be sad or depressed to the point it was portrayed in the movie.
 
He is still an emo. I understand wht he went through but he was tht way pretty much from the get go. After zack died he cracked. In FF7 his whole story was depressed.

Regarding AC Cloud pff come on emo cloud couldn't you focus on your friends and orphans instead of drowning in your own sorrow? He was still emo in beginning of AC.

A true hero shouldnt stay in the past but focus on future. Cloud never stood by he fights he has courage, but he has no personality!! Man up emo shithead!

Even after he saved the planet he still couldn't man up.

Man Denzel has more courage heart and personality than Cloudette.
 
Well sure those are some valid points..But that also makes his character more human and not so much in the fantasy side. Its good to have a hero that isnt the typical stand it all guy.. Sometimes people crack, cloud had reasons to and its nice not to see a hero that would literally be able to remain well after such catastrophic events if you know what I mean. I hope I am getting the point across well.. I think its unfair to call it emo as he has every reason to be side.

Environment shapes our behaviour and there just some people that oppose that outside pressure better than others. Cloud has a weak mind due to his experiments, we shouldnt forget the power Jenova/Sephiroth has over his mind! He did pretty well imo considering all the shit that has happened.. Sure he took the coward way out in the end..But it is not emo it is cowardly at best. And the people of the planet werent exactly saved, there was basically the plague dropping humans by the seconds all over the place. Thats pretty much a reason to lose all hope and faith. He did end up fighting so he is kind of forgiven, sure he needed a little persuasion but hey thats what friends are for.
 
I understand this thread completely but for me it was too much. I couldnt enjoy FF7 because of Cloud.
Have you read Denzels novel piece? Man he was a little kid and he endured a lot too but he never gave up. Cloud imo gave up. The only reason he kept fighting was yeah like you said because he had friends by him, but Denzel basically had no one.

If Cloud was a side character everyone would have disliked him or he would have committed suicide lol. Well Denzel didnt :hmmm:

I dont even know what Im talking about really, perhaps because he was a labrat he is not ordinary, but I cant seem to forget or forgive the fact he thought he was Zack and all the statements above.

If Cloud is not an emo then what is his personality?

Man did he love Aerith or was tht part of Zack? Then why didnt he go for sugar tits Tifa!!!

:wacky:
 
He is definitely a bit dull though cmon? Not exactly the most exciting chap. I dont see what all the hate is about characters being 'emo'. Its supposed to be short for emotional but people always associate it with the cliques. His character was pretty different in FF7 than it was in advent children. In FF7 he had a sense of humour. I mean cmon he dressed up as a girl.
However in that horrible horrible movie advent children he was a bloody misery. Ok his love was killed a few years back and hes still sad about it. Heck maybe their trying to imply he has depression, it wouldn't be strange if he was. In the real world depression is as common as the cold weather in Scotland. Im taking this a bit seriously but really i dont care. The game/movie developers designers whatever they made the character that way. It seems to be either love or hate.
I think they were maybe playing to the idea the ladies love this silent moody kinda guy, sexy and mysterious..... :lew: But he was just boring in that film. But that movie is garbage anyway. I would pick on 100 other things wrong with it before even mentioning the dull lead character.
I liked cloud in FF7, he was a good lead character and he definitely wasnt the misery he was in AC. Socially awkward yes but an emo, no. Besides FF7 was a great game.

I wonder if they ever did decide to remake it with voice actors how people would feel about his character then. It seems his voice actor only has one kinda of emotion. The boring one.
 
@Ohri-Jin - You accidently double posted just warning.

Now. Cloud as depicted in Crisis Core was a young man with dreams. He wanted to join SOLDIER to protect those he loved and also he promised to join SOLDIER to protect Tifa as depicted in the beginning of the original game. During the Shinra trainment he was not capable of joining SOLDIER as he was too weak and became a regular shinra officer. Following the events of Crisis Core he was kidnapped by Hojo along with Zack where he was exposed to huge quantities of Mako energy and Jenova cells. As his mind was weak he basically shattered. There was no Cloud, there was only a fragmented persona.

Following the ending of Crisis Core because of the traumatic experiences he lived while he was fucked up, he adopted the Zack persona as perhaps some sort of defence mechanism, he was unstable and broken, we can even assume he developed some kind schizophrenic mental illness of something of that sort(Im not qualified enough to make a correct assumption regarding his psychological condition).

Then followed the events in Final Fantasy 7 as I said in my original post he experienced some serious shit. He was kind of a mixed Zack with some Cloud memories and traits, he was an abomination until that episode in the lifestream where Tifa rejoined the pieces of his shattered mind. He now, knew who he was and regarding the Tifa matter, I think there might have been some kind of romantic involvement, they were really close by the end of the game, of course we didnt officially see it or know it for sure, I think Square at the time wouldnt want to make something like that because of Aeris. And believe it or not some people really do value personality over physical appearance, thats actually a trait of integrity if you ask me but oh well, thats irrelevant.

And the rest I have already stated in my original post, I dont think Cloud his emo, he went through mind shattering events, he was basically insane at some point. I dont blame him for having the behaviour he had. Denzel went through a lot but in my opinion it doesnt reach the scope of Cloud's own story. Then again some people just dont like the character to begin with but I find his actions totally justifiable and believable, he has humanity in him and a realistic character development.
@Big Casino
From what Ive taken I dont think he is depressed in AC because of that(while it may be a factor im sure it is not the main reason), He is like that because he developed Geostigma, basically a death sentence making in his minds, his efforts to save the world futile. Also it is one more event that added up to all the bad things that happened to him, he simply lost it, he lost all hope also quite possibly because he knew the disease had origin in the lifestream and if thats the case he wouldnt know it was Sephiroth all along, when he discovered that it was indeed sephiroth he fought back and in the end he was happy and moved on. He thought Geostigma was the planet's way of punishment for some of his previous failures(not saving Aeris, letting zack die, letting himself be controlled by sephiroth and not being able to protect everyone as he intended to, adding up to the experimentation and mental instability scenario(He interpreted it that way).
@_Rabbit
I would Like your input on this, I was always curious about your opinion.
 
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Okay Cloud is not Emo because last time I looked Cloud wasn't a grudgey, depressive singer like Chemical Romance. Does he have a band because that would be cool ? YouTube me anyone ? Did he make MTV ?
:ness:​


Emo isn't a depressive person. A depressive person is a depressive person and that isn't funny not in a slightest. These people struggle to wake up in the morning, try and kill themselves, hate themselves, believe that nobody loves them even their close family, and even try to kill themselves by over-eating or not eating a thing at all... it's not funny and shouldn't be joked about; not in the slightest.

Is Cloud a depressive person though ? In the original game no. He manages to break through his demons and he focuses on what now matters and while he's sad and heartbroken over Aeris he knows that he and the gang must move on from the past; her smile can't be freezes forever.

Cloud within Advent Children however ? Yes... very much so. He doesn't believe that he can do anything like a RL life human suffering from the demon known as Depression and he hides away from his friends and lovers, again like a RL life depressed man.

However if you believe that Cloud is "emo" during the original game then you're not understanding the game or character development at all. But 'Emo ' is a genre of music and is completely different from those who just need a hug and love in their lifes....

[Also it's why I can't stand the newer episodes of The Simpsons " The Moe the Bartender tries to kill himself jokes " are not funny at all ".]
 
​(Sorry for reviving a dead thread.)

I can't speak for Advent Children, since I haven't see it, but from what I've seen in the game, no, he wasn't "emo". A bit angsty? Sometimes, yes, but from what I've seen, he was a lot more arrogant and just quiet than broody, and though he was very upset about Aerith's death, you can notice a drastic change when Cloud slowly starts to regain his personality. You notice that he's not necesarrily more upbeat, but he is less broody and a bit less serious, but not "emo" or "depressive". But, of course, there's always the fandom that depicits him as an emo.
 
I don’t believe that Cloud was exactly ‘emo’ so to speak; he just was a little—a lot anti-social. He still had emotions and his own thoughts; he just wasn’t really expressive with them. I understand Cloud as a character went through a lot of shit, but he wasn’t at all emo. In fact, he was the complete opposite. The definition of emo is the excessive displays of emotion. Sorry, but with both VII and AC I didn’t see any emotions whatsoever from the guy. Maybe he’s suffered his own personal issues, but not once(rarely) had he openly discussed his feelings to any other characters of the game / AC. (from what I remember) In AC, he cut himself away from everyone, and he struggled to overcome his problem but that alone doesn’t make him ‘emo.’ People need to understand what it really means before they can come to the conclusion that he is in fact, ‘emo’
 
To be completely honest? I like calling Cloud emo because it usually makes the FFVII fanboys and girls rage which usually makes me laugh. But I really don't think he's emo. Given what he went through I never actually thought of him as emo.
 
I also enjoy joking around && calling Cloud "emo." Especially when I think back to his line in Kingdom Hearts II when he says, "I just... don't know." xD I've also drawn a fanart of "Emo Cloud" a few years ago. Maybe I'll post it on here someday 'cause it looks pretty funny. xD

But yeah, I guess the issue at hand is defining the term "emo," since there seems to be a discrepancy/debate in that and I think some people (including myself) refer to the stereotypical, preconceived notion of what is emo, which seems to be more apathetic, reclusive, depressive... Emotional without emoting, if you will. At least that's what usually comes to mind when I think of someone being "emo."

Aside from that, it's more of a fashion style imo. Dark clothes, skinny jeans, long side-swept bangs, some black eyeliner... Horribly stereotypical, I know, but there's a bit of truth in every stereotype.
 
I will have to say thay Cloud wasnt hopeless in AC either. Sure he wanted to be forgiven but he was still trying to find a cure for denzel and marlene. He was just hiding those ffears and sadness by living alone.

Any character we see in CC and their different personas is completely just. Were not the same person 7 years ago, why should characters of ff7?

Other than that. He never spoke in a negative way or lost hope. He was depressed but still had a will. He was an introvert if anything.
 
First off, Omega, I wanna say that I love the Auron quote under your sig. I literally LOL'd after reading that...phew...good laugh...

Anyways, the problem with that youtube comment is that it isn't entirely accurate. First off, losing AVALANCHE: He never really lost AVALANCHE if you really think about it. I mean how long did he know Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie at that point in the game? Did he even care about AVALANCHE at that point in the game? He even stated when Barret asked him straight up, "The planets dyin' Cloud! and you aint gonna do nothin about it?" Cloud says, "I don't care. All I care about is finishing this job before the Roboguards come." Also, after they left Midgar, he still had Barret and Tifa.
Secondly, the part of the comment at the end says, "the man who caused it all." It wasn't actually Sephiroth that caused most of the things he mentioned. For instance: how he lost AVALANCHE- that was the President Shinra's idea.
Becoming a lab rat-Hojo's idea.
Some of the other things were cauesd by Sephiroth but most of it if not all of it (when you think about it, because Sephiroth was created by Hojo) was caused by Shinra. Now I don't know about you guys but being messed with by a big company doesn't really get me down much because, well, it happens all the time. In the game he rose up above all of this even after he was thrown in the lifestream, contracting mako poisonning, and even after he failed numerous times by giving Sephiroth the Black Materia. The ONE time he got depressed was in Gongaga I believe he was depressed for like 5 minutes then you walk outside and he says, "LETS DO IT" (not exactly). By the end of FF7 I really felt Cloud had improved as a character and become a stronger person inside and out. I just don't like how in AC they kind of bring all his insecurities back that he had at certain points in the game (like when he didn't know who he was or if he could succeed). I felt that we had already been through all that. To me, this is why Cloud's character in AC wasn't very believable.

 
Cloud isn't the "emo" stereotype. Cloud just whines about everything and no one can think of a good word to describe him.

_Rabbit said:
Okay Cloud is not Emo because last time I looked Cloud wasn't a grudgey, depressive singer like Chemical Romance.
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are you fucking kidding me. their lyrics aren't even close to that.
 
roshidon said:
First off, Omega, I wanna say that I love the Auron quote under your sig. I literally LOL'd after reading that...phew...good laugh...

Anyways, the problem with that youtube comment is that it isn't entirely accurate. First off, losing AVALANCHE: He never really lost AVALANCHE if you really think about it. I mean how long did he know Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie at that point in the game? Did he even care about AVALANCHE at that point in the game? He even stated when Barret asked him straight up, "The planets dyin' Cloud! and you aint gonna do nothin about it?" Cloud says, "I don't care. All I care about is finishing this job before the Roboguards come." Also, after they left Midgar, he still had Barret and Tifa.
Secondly, the part of the comment at the end says, "the man who caused it all." It wasn't actually Sephiroth that caused most of the things he mentioned. For instance: how he lost AVALANCHE- that was the President Shinra's idea.
Becoming a lab rat-Hojo's idea.
Some of the other things were cauesd by Sephiroth but most of it if not all of it (when you think about it, because Sephiroth was created by Hojo) was caused by Shinra. Now I don't know about you guys but being messed with by a big company doesn't really get me down much because, well, it happens all the time. In the game he rose up above all of this even after he was thrown in the lifestream, contracting mako poisonning, and even after he failed numerous times by giving Sephiroth the Black Materia. The ONE time he got depressed was in Gongaga I believe he was depressed for like 5 minutes then you walk outside and he says, "LETS DO IT" (not exactly). By the end of FF7 I really felt Cloud had improved as a character and become a stronger person inside and out. I just don't like how in AC they kind of bring all his insecurities back that he had at certain points in the game (like when he didn't know who he was or if he could succeed). I felt that we had already been through all that. To me, this is why Cloud's character in AC wasn't very believable.
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Ye the Comment isnt accurate but I used it to get the inspiration to get this thread. But you are also forgetting that Sephiroth was his hero so that is a big disappointment in the end. But that is not the main point. The reason he is that way in AC is because he got Geostigma and I dont want to repeat myself regarding this matter so read one of my first posts where I cover the Geostima implications in his persona.. Also dont forget that after the chaotic events of the original, things kind of settled down and there was a lot of time to develop a depression based on the losses of some of his closest friends (Aerith and Zack). He didnt really have time to deal with some of the things that happened to him. He dealt with some major issues but due to the constant alarming environment of the game I doubt someone would really have time to stop and think and deal with all the issues.
 
Draklor said:
Cloud just whines about everything and no one can think of a good word to describe him.
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That's a pretty funny way to spell "Cid". Kidding, obviously.

He didn't necesarrily whine. In Advent Children? I finally got around to seeing the movie, he did whine a little, but who can blame him? He felt helpless and weak.

That's the problem, nowadays. If someone never smiles or "gets depressed", when sometimes they have every reason in the world to be depressed, they're automatically slapped with the "emo" label.
 
Omegadruid said:
Ye the Comment isnt accurate but I used it to get the inspiration to get this thread. But you are also forgetting that Sephiroth was his hero so that is a big disappointment in the end. But that is not the main point. The reason he is that way in AC is because he got Geostigma and I dont want to repeat myself regarding this matter so read one of my first posts where I cover the Geostima implications in his persona.. Also dont forget that after the chaotic events of the original, things kind of settled down and there was a lot of time to develop a depression based on the losses of some of his closest friends (Aerith and Zack). He didnt really have time to deal with some of the things that happened to him. He dealt with some major issues but due to the constant alarming environment of the game I doubt someone would really have time to stop and think and deal with all the issues.
Click to expand...

I get what you're saying and no1 can really understand how a person would act after being experimented on for 5 years. Sure I would probably be a little crazy too but in the game he doesn't falter except for the one time I mentioned, which is at Gongaga village. After that he immediately jumps back on that train cuz there aint no gettin offa this train we on! It may be that coupled with the fact that I went around and got a Gold Chocobo, won a bunch of races, got almost every1's ultimate weapons and materia so I felt like one strong mofo by the end of the game.

One problem I had with the movie was how Cloud charges against the 3 "remnants" in the Forgotten City all by himself. Why would he do that? Cloud isn't stupid he always fights with 2 other party members. Why not just call Cid on the airship to come pick up him up and maybe some other people to come help? And what happened to the kids when they went to the forgotten city anyways? I still don't know exactly what happened there, any light on that subject would be great.
 
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