Cloud's Jenova Cells...and his future

[The Witch]

To start off, Cloud has Jenova cells, Sephiroth can continue to exist because of those cells...

My question, if Cloud ever decides to have kids(with a girl that he of course meets and grows to love)do those Jenova cells get passed on into the childs DNA too? And eventually into Cloud's grandkids, and then so on and so on, therefor making Sephiroth everlasting...

Since the Jenova cells are apart of Cloud's DNA that kinda means his Jenova cells will be passed on to his biological children.

Unless Cloud plans on either a) dying or b) not having kids his entire life... Sephiroth will come back to destroy the world eventually.
They're screwed.

Opinions if you dare

 

[Alak]

um...I think I'll dare...

***Below is pure speculation***

It's not Cloud who's responsible for Sephiroth's return. Having JENOVA's cells might give someone consciousness in the afterlife (similar to the Cetra) which would explain why we see Angeal, Zack, and Sephiroth all pretty active when they're dead. The only exception with Sephiroth is that he's actually trying not to stay dead. I believe the only reason why he told Cloud in Dissidia that as long as Cloud lives, Sephiroth will find a way back, is because Sephiroth is just trying to mess with his head. After Cloud dies (children or not), Sephiroth will still continue to find a way to resurrect himself. Well, at least until he accepts his death.

 

[Dragon Mage]

Aww, Hits, you are friend indeed! You know I can't resist such a question.

To start off, Cloud has Jenova cells, Sephiroth can continue to exist because of those cells...

My question, if Cloud ever decides to have kids(with a girl that he of course meets and grows to love)do those Jenova cells get passed on into the childs DNA too? And eventually into Cloud's grandkids, and then so on and so on, therefor making Sephiroth everlasting...

Since the Jenova cells are apart of Cloud's DNA that kinda means his Jenova cells will be passed on to his biological children.

Unless Cloud plans on either a) dying or b) not having kids his entire life... Sephiroth will come back to destroy the world eventually.
They're screwed.

Opinions if you dare

If you recall from my last megapost, Sephiroth was different from all of the "cloning" experiments in that Jenova's DNA was was laced with his own DNA because the cells were injected into him while he was still in the womb. Well, Cloud, like the other dain bramaged 'clone experiments' you meet in the game, only had Jenova cells injected into them when they were very much grown. So, Cloud may have Jenova cells in his bloodstream -- which, if you've seen AC, is the cause of Geostigma -- but that does not mean Jenova DNA is in his genetic material. Viruses are not passed on to the newborn -- just because the mother or father had a cold during conception, doesn't mean the infant will come out sneezing. Aye?

Which means Cloud can safely reproduce safely.

Anyways, in a way, Sephiroth truly will never die in the fact that he is a soul come from the Lifestream and so he returns to the Lifestream as do all other souls. As much as his actions say otherwise, he is a being of the planet. So his soul, like Aerith and Zack and all the others, will continue to exist within the Lifestream. That is what he means

Now, again, I'll refer you back to my megapost. You remember what I said about how Sephiroth soul/will was in the Lifestream, and he powered and programmed Jenova's body and used it to shapeshift to look like him and then used it as a tool in the living world to get the Black Materia to his physical body? Well, in AC, that is the whole reason for Kadaj and Co. to get Jenova's head. The Remnants are just a smattering of Jenova's cells and 'shards' of Sephiroth's soul/will (as it was shattered in the one-on-one fight with Cloud at the end of the game, the famous 1-hit win fight). They're literally just a Jenova cells and a... soul fragment, if you will. They needed more Jenova cells -- thus her head -- to "become" Sephiroth because more cells were needed for any one of the Remnants to shapeshift into Sephiroth's form and unite together as Sephiroth.

It's confusing to wrap your head around, so don't worry if you don't get it. Basically, if Sephiroth wants to influence the living world, he has to do it through the unique shapeshifting quality possessed only in Jenova cells. As we see in Advent Children, the planet finally develops a way to annihilate all Jenova cells for good, curing Cloud and thousands of others of Geostigma and ensuring that Sephiroth will never be able to influence the living world again.

So! Bring on the spikey-haired babies!

 

[GalaxyFlare]

Yes,but.....lol

Draco Magus do you think that outside of jenova cells being present, Sephiroth could not ressurect himself through pure will? has it been stated that all jenova material is accounted for? l know what you said about AC with the planet finding a cure, is the Goestigma the only other way Sephiroth/jenova have to preserve the near imortality?

lm not suggesting you know these answers l'm just interested in your thoughts, I happen to think Sephiroth is powerful enough to manifest outside of his usual means as it were.

Who would the Spikey oddball have babies with? Tifa?

 

[King Sean]

Not too sure they get passed on We need to see someone in the FFVII universe whosehad those cells injected into them have offspring first. We can only speculate whether or not they will get passed on. That would provide a new plot point in the story,though

 

[The Witch]

So, Cloud may have Jenova cells in his bloodstream -- which, if you've seen AC, is the cause of Geostigma -- but that does not mean Jenova DNA is in his genetic material. Viruses are not passed on to the newborn -- just because the mother or father had a cold during conception, doesn't mean the infant will come out sneezing. Aye?

But Jenova isn't like a cold. It's more on the scale with Aids. And aids does get passed onto the child(especially if it's on the fathers side).

So, since the Jenova cells are apart of Cloud's DNA that means it would be passed on to Cloud's kids.

As we see in Advent Children, the planet finally develops a way to annihilate all Jenova cells for good, curing Cloud and thousands of others of Geostigma and ensuring that Sephiroth will never be able to influence the living world again.

Also, the Jenova cells are still around by the time Dirge of Cerberous comes around. So they're not destroyed.

Who would the Spikey oddball have babies with? Tifa?

I said with some girl, not Tifa. Don't start that here

Not too sure they get passed on We need to see someone in the FFVII universe whosehad those cells injected into them have offspring first. We can only speculate whether or not they will get passed on. That would provide a new plot point in the story,though

Agreed. That's why I started to think about it. It's very interesting.

 

[Dragon Mage]

Yes,but.....lol

Draco Magus do you think that outside of jenova cells being present, Sephiroth could not ressurect himself through pure will? has it been stated that all jenova material is accounted for? l know what you said about AC with the planet finding a cure, is the Goestigma the only other way Sephiroth/jenova have to preserve the near imortality?

lm not suggesting you know these answers l'm just interested in your thoughts, I happen to think Sephiroth is powerful enough to manifest outside of his usual means as it were.

Who would the Spikey oddball have babies with? Tifa?

Well, Sephiroth might be able to make himself manifest as Aerith did, which is non-physical. He could appear as a ghost or some other malevolent apparition, but he wouldn't have an actual body anymore. And since Jenova's head -- which Sephiroth removed from the main body in Niblehiem so long ago -- was the last 'deposit' of Jenova cells left and was seen as something of a last-shot attempt at taking over the world... then yes, I think it's safe to say that all J-Cells have been accounted for and eliminated. And Geostigma is a result of Jenova cells getting spread through the Lifestream and acting as a virus of sorts -- notice that Cloud was the only one of his age infected with Geostigma -- that's because when Shinra experimented on him, he was injected with J-Cells. Rufus also has it, but that's likely because he was exposed to some J-cells during all the experimenting with it at his workplace. However, the rest of Geostigma victims are children, those with still developing immune systems, so when the Lifestream sprouted out of the earth to push back Meteor, all those parts of of the Lifestream that had been infected with J-Cells were exposed, and some people brushed up against these streams of tainted Lifestream, and thus were infected with Geostigma. It isn't really an immortality thing... more like a sticky-plot-device thing.

And yes, I think it's safe bet that Cloud would get busy with Tifa. Seeing as no other love interest has been posed for him in any extra material yet, post-game or post-AC, and that Tifa was his original love interest from the get-go, it seems quite logical, doesn't it? And with the only other love interest being dead, it poses quite an obstacle for reproduction. Putrefaction of major organs would tend to cause some problems, as I'm sure you can imagine.

(And before anyone gets started, that previous paragraph was a joke. -.-)

But Jenova isn't like a cold. It's more on the scale with Aids. And aids does get passed onto the child(especially if it's on the fathers side).

So, since the Jenova cells are apart of Cloud's DNA that means it would be passed on to Cloud's kids.

Well, that's not necessarily true. AIDS is passed to the infant through the mother because it's a primarily blood-transmitted virus, and well, it's easy to see how an unborn baby would be infected by the mother's blood, obviously. However, the father would have to first infect the mother for the virus to be transmitted to the baby.

So! I stand corrected. A cold was a bad example. Think of the J-Cells as more like parasites. They damage the host but are not part of the host and yet are still not a part of the hosts DNA. A person's genetic code does not change after they are born. At. All. A person can become a carrier for a virus, but that virus isn't a part of their DNA.


In any case, even if Geostigma was to be treated as a virus and not a parasite, J-Cells wouldn't be passed onto his children because he was cured of Geostigma as were all others infected with it because the J-Cells were physically destroyed by some holy water. Courtesy of Aerith and Ancient Co.

Also, the Jenova cells are still around by the time Dirge of Cerberous comes around. So they're not destroyed.

Heh heh, no. DoC takes place 1 year after AC. Sure, some people may still be infected with Geostigma because they didn't go splashing in the rain. But any J-Cells still floating around in the Lifestream itself has been eliminated (the 'cure-rain' was water mixed with pure, untainted Lifestream which destroyed any J-Cells it came into contact with). Because of how Geostigma started (see above explanation) it isn't contagious. The body has to be already compromised by J-Cells or have a downed immune system to become infected -- and since all the 'clones' who had J-Cells in them were killed, and only children have vulnerable immune systems, and it would require a re-exposure of tainted Lifestream, of which there is now none because of the cure seen in AC, then no new generation could be infected. So! That means there is a small number of people out there infected with Geostigma still but who cannot infect anyone else and the cure is simply found in at least one good-sized lake/natural spring (the Church in the slums). A year after the cure was 'created' isn't enough time for everyone ever infected to have made the trip to Edge, so yea, you'd still see some Geostigma victims, but not for long. Once they are cured or dead, those remaining J-Cells would be obliterated. The planet has set up a screening system of a sorts.

 

[The Witch]

But, people in DoC still have J-cells. Vincent and Genisis still have the jenova cells, so that means they're not gone.

See, here's the thing. In Doc, we saw that Hojo was apart of an experiment where he passes on the Jenova cells biologically.
The experiment was this, they gave Lucrecia Jenovas Cells so she could have Sephiroth(with the Jenova cells). Because sephiroth inheritted these genes, it killed Lucrecia which is why Vincent warned her of the danger.

(kid sister helped me out here)

Lucrecia became romantically involved with Hojo and eventually married him. During this time, she became pregnant and agreed to use her unborn child as a test subject. Hojo injected the pregnant Lucrecia with Jenova cells and therefor the baby was infected aswell.

So Jenova cells CAN be transmitted biologically. And anybody with them cannot have their own kids. Unless, they don't mind having psychotic-mini-Sephiroths running around.

 

[Mattix111]

I thought Hojo forced himself on Lucrecia... And it was Gast who created Sephiroth wasn't it? I could be VERY wrong.

Actually I AM wrong about Gast although Square made a fatal error in FF VII with this lil' statement. Sephiroth: "Yes. Professor Gast, leader of the Jenova Project and genius scientist, produced me." I suppose in retrospect since he headed the Jenova Cell project in this era (being Jenova was discovered 2-3000 years before hand) maybe Sephiroth said this because without the Jenova cells he was nothing, although I'm finding that a rather hard set of lines to read in between; It was likely another error Square overlooked.

 

[Dragon Mage]

But, people in DoC still have J-cells. Vincent and Genisis still have the jenova cells, so that means they're not gone.

Yes, but they are not infectious, so they cannot pass on the J-cells.

So Jenova cells CAN be transmitted biologically. And anybody with them cannot have their own kids. Unless, they don't mind having psychotic-mini-Sephiroths running around.

Jenova cells were injected into the still growing embryo that would become Sephiroth. They actually meshed into his DNA as he was still developing and when *he* became adapted to the cells, that strength drawn from the alien DNA was somehow passed to the mother, Lucrecia. The infant became resistant to kind of disease and so the mother became resistant to it as well. It really shouldn't work that way, but this is a fantasy we're talking about here.

In any case, I suppose the mothers could pass on the infection to the child, but that child would probably die shortly after it was born. Again, like AIDS. If the mother has it, then the child is born with it, and dies shortly after being born. Having J-cells being incorporated into your genetic material while you're still developing in the womb, and become infected with a disease that is caused by J-cells are very different things.

 

[The Witch]

I guess logic really doesn't HAVE to occur in a fantasy relm. It just doesn't make sense >.<

 

[bill114]

I bet all that Mako made him sterile.

 

[The Witch]

I bet all that Mako made him sterile.

Har, har, har no.

If the cells don't pass on biologically, how did they spread back in the Ancient/Cetra/Jenova wars?

Aerith's Cetra cells were passed on to her from her mother, so why wouldn't the Jenova cells pass on to their children?

 

[GalaxyFlare]

What abilities did Jenova give Sephiroth?

It states in FF Dissidia that:

"His fighting prowess is perhaps the only thing he values from the time he considered himself to be human"

Was becoming one with the LIfestream a thing able to be done by the Cetra/Ancients
or was Seph able to do it because of his Jenova cells? its not like he went Super Sephiroth when he learnt the truth in the mansion he was powerful before and after that event he just had focus for his for potential.

Was summoning Meteor something other people who had the Black Materia could do or was Sephiroth able to do it because of his Jenova cells
Jenova cells.....

I think what we know of Sephiroth is the gift jenova imparted on him, but because he was created outside of jenonvas natural assimilation process he retained enough hmuan DNA in uetero to not only not be assimilated but retain some of jenovas abilties.

 

[Dragon Mage]

If the cells don't pass on biologically, how did they spread back in the Ancient/Cetra/Jenova wars?

Aerith's Cetra cells were passed on to her from her mother, so why wouldn't the Jenova cells pass on to their children?

Being in ones genetic code and being an infection are different things, and passed differently.

Now if Cloud were like Sephiroth, and had the Jenova genetic code spliced with his, then yeah, his kiddies would be weird and creepy. But since Cloud was only infected and was subsequently cured (read: cells were destroyed that were in his bloodstream) then the Geostigma would not be passed onto his kiddies.

Spiky-haired babies will not be any creepier or weirder than having spiky hair makes them. *phew*

The 'cetra cells' you mention Aerith inheriting from her mother is simply the passing of genetic code. It does not transfer the same way a virus or infection does.

You see, babies are made when mommy loves daddy very, very much....

xD

Also, as for how the 'disease' that Ifalna mentions was spread, I have no idea. I don't think anyone can tell you for sure. We don't even know if it was the same thing as Geostigma -- it most likely wasn't, but we can't say for sure. Figuratively speaking, the records don't go back that far. So speculate away -- you're guess is as good as any other.

 

[The Witch]

Oh, okay. So Jenova cells are more like a disease rather than a genetic code, okay, makes sense.

Wait, how was Cloud cured?

 

[Dragon Mage]

Oh, okay. So Jenova cells are more like a disease rather than a genetic code, okay, makes sense.

Wait, how was Cloud cured?

Exactly!


Cloud was cured in the movie Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children. At the end, a little bit of Aerith helping and the planet acting itself made a 'cure' made of water and untainted Lifestream. I came in the form of a fountain that sprung up at Aerith's garden in the rundown church and later it rained, curing everyone who was infected that touched the rain. It works by destroying the Jenova cells (which is why Kadaj reacted to it like it was acid) and Cloud was the first to be cured.

Since the concentration of people with Geostigma was in Edge, and most everyone was standing outside to watch the heroes fight the big dragon, nearly all infectees were cured at that time. Afterward, a big pool of the cure water was left in the church (where Aerith's garden used to be). She must be pissed off about her garden. I would if I were her.

 

[The Witch]

But the rain didn't cure Vincent of the Jenova cells? Why would it heal Cloud from them?

I don't remember anything ever saying that Great Gospel kills Jenova cells. The reason Great Gospel defeated the SHM is because they were formed of negative Lifestream. Great Gospel simply purified them and changed them back to positive Lifestream, so they lost their cohesion and returned to the Lifestream flowing around the planet.

 

[Dragon Mage]

Um...that's because Vincent didn't have Geostigma? He didn't have J-cells in him. His very genetic code was messed up by Hojo (who, I'm guessing, managed to somewhat copy the genetic ability to shapeshift but only partially, and used Vinny as his experiment.) But Vincent doesn't have Geostigma, so he's clear.

Also, I don't believe it was great gospel. It was a one-time thing, I believe.


Well, yeah, it purifys tainted Lifestream, and the Remnants are just tainted Lifestream and leftover Jenova cells... explaining why they needed MORE Jenova cells to become more 'solid' so one of them could manifest as Sephiroth. Either way, it destroys the remaining J-cells and cleanses tainted lifestream. This plot device has been thoroughly exhausted, thank goodness. =3

 

[Alak]

Yeah, I was also under the impression that Vincent was free of Jenova cells from the beginning. Cloud, Genesis, and Weiss should be the only ones carrying it after DoC. However, I honestly now think that Sephiroth will only come back when Square-Enix wants him to come back. If they quit making spin-offs and sequels, then Sephy is gone for sure. If they do, they'll come up with some sort of new explanation (one that isn't stated in this thread) to bring Sephiroth back and the whole argument will begin again with even more complications.