Cloud's Love Triangle - The LTD of FFVII

[The Witch]

So this is a Love Triangle thread for Cloud Strife and the two women in love with him Aerith and Tifa.

Freddie Mercury, said it was alright to start one so here it is.

RULES TO KEEP IN MIND WHILE POSTING
​

• Stay Civil, dudes. It's just a game.
• Don't insult someone for their beliefs
• If someone does insult you, REPORT IT, don't respond
• Stay on Track in the debate
• Don't spam with one liners or off topic discussions
• Just because a person insults the ship/character doesn't mean you have a right to snap at them. They didn't insult you... they insulted a character.
• No need for foul language. No need for cussing.
• Don't talk to someone as if they're an idiot.
• POST QUOTES/SOURCES to prove your point
• Creator's word is God's law in this thread. What they say goes.
• Emotes that mock people are allowed, but they're seen as snark.
• Double Standards will be called out.
• If you can't or don't want to reply back to someone's arguments, say so. So the other person won't end up wasting their time.
• Remember, it's a game. Have fun.

Past thread; http://www.finalfantasyforums.net/final-fantasy-vii/what-happened-next-43242.html

 

[The Witch]

I'm going to reply to a few of the last posts from the previous thread;

He was in a bit of a mental problem when Aeris left because of what happened at the Temple of Ancients, when he tried to kill her. I wouldn't say it was only love that caused him to take this sort of action.

Why?
Also here is the paragraph again;

"...When she left her companions and headed for the Forgotten City, Cloud's heart was like an egg that was on the verge of cracking open. It wasn't going to crack open like the way an egg hatched but, as if only the yolk was going to seep out of it. It was as if his mind was going to shatter. She wanted to comfort him. If she wasn't the last survivor of the Cetra she probably would have done so without a doubt." - MotP

A lot of this had to do with Aeris protecting Marlene from Shinra. And he did partly it for Aeris' mom too.

What makes you think that? Cloud never actually says that. Cloud was friends with Aerith by the time she was taken by the Shinra.

As said in this quote;
Tifa: "It’s just that...I was displeased at the way Cloud and another girl soon became good friends.
Well, Aerith is a very good girl, I was fond of her soon, too. No wonder…" -FFVII Dismantled

Then Cloud states that if only she wasn't involved in his battle with Shinra;

Cloud: "If only she was not involved in this battle, between me and Shinra…..
Aerith’s mother told us that she’s a foster child. And because she’s the last survivor of “the Ancents,” Shinra has been after her since she was little.
So far, it seemed the Turks never tried to forcibly take her away in violent manner. They just persistently asked for her cooperation.But, Shinra was entirely impetuous this time.
If Shinra changed the strategy all of a sudden, then no one can guarantee her safety.
I need to get in Shinra building.
I need to rescue her……by all means!" - Dismantled

I think it's safe to say Cloud went in there for his own feelings towards her, whether or not they're love.

You do realise feelings can change as time goes on, right? That it's possible to love someone again, even after you hate them or forget about them? I don't see how you can deny the events of the future so easily using only the situation of the present. Nothing is decided for now.

Yes. I do know that. But Nomura has stated more than once Aerith loves Cloud for Cloud and isn't in love with Zack anymore. How can you blame me for following what the creater says? Until a quote appears talking about Aerith possibly falling out of love with Cloud. It's just fan speculation without any real meaning behind it.

However, if you prefer to think that Aerith loves Zack, feel free. Just know that Aerith isn't officially.

it would still not confirm his feelings for Aerith. Just because he 'accepts' doesn't mean he loves her, for all anyone knows, he's doing it to be polite.

Hmm, to be honest, right now, I'm not focusing on what the date means. I just want to establish that Aerith is the default/canon date.

Nah, if you look at the way it was meant, she doesn't believe he's 'just her childhood' friend. That's how I think they meant it anyway. I've never met anyone thinking differently on that, Cleriths or not. However, I like to think they just seemed so close when everyone was peeking at the two of them, so they think it's something more than just friends. *winkwink*

Well, during the Honey Bee Mansion scene, Johnny, Tifa's friend, asks Cloud this question after seeing Cloud and Aerith heading into the lovers INN;
Johnny; "You're Tifa's childhood friend, and you brought a girlfriend
to a place like this!?"

I always thought it was pretty significant that Tifa's friend saw Aerith as Cloud's girlfriend.

Not to mention, Cloud says to Marlene that he hopes Aerith likes him too.

Having Aerith as the standard date would make more sense with the storyline, and events in Final Fantasy VII, which... In my opinion has nothing to do with Cloud loving Aerith, just because he goes on a date with her.

Just because Cloud goes on a date with Tifa, it doesn't mean he automatically loves her. The date was just a small add-on, which... I don't think either shippers can get something out of.

True. Whomever Cloud goes on the date with doesn't prove he loves them. But it has a lot of significance for Cloud and Aerith. After all, it's the first time Aerith tells Cloud that she knows he's not himself. And then she tells Cloud she wants to "meet" him--a wish Cloud shares in return back to Aerith--wanting to meet her as well. That's where the significance is for me.

The song, I honestly believe was written for the date with Tifa. Yes, it does play at different occasions too, but it's been pointed out, and staying true to the title, that only happens to Tifa.

Honestly, I thought both girls got interrupted.

Aerith is the standard. I honestly think that because else it wouldn't really make sense for her to suggest the date, however, Cloud, in my opinion, never actually says "Yes." to it. So having a promised date really doesn't... Make it a promised date, if there were no promises made. We're talking Final Fantasy VII here, I assume, and I've yet to see Cloud and Aerith make that promise.

Well, Cloud continues acting as her bodyguard... and he said for him to be her bodyguard she would have to "pay" him in some way. To which Aerith offers a date followed by Cloud nodding his head then on top of that, he's always bringing up the fact that he's her bodyguard. In the Shinra prison cell, when Aerith says "I knew Cloud would come for me" Cloud says "Hey, I'm your bodygaurd right?" and then Aerith replies by saying; "The deal was for one date, right?" And Cloud never says that wasn't the deal.

If the deal wasn't for a date, then Cloud would have pointed it out here.

Aerith saying; "How about I go out with you once?" and Cloud nodding means it was a promise. Because Aerith promised Cloud a date for his protection. Making their date the promised one.

I'm a CloudxTifa supporter, and even though I dislike Aerith, I personally thought her and Zack were a match made like Cloud and Tifa - perfect.

Seriously, though, I could say the same for Cloud and Aerith. Especially since Cloud and Aerith's stars are said to be perfect for each other... doesn't that make them the perfect couple?

I'm not sure if anyone's seen this, but there was a quote from Nojima that says things don't go well between Cloud and Tifa, even without Geostigma or Sephiroth. He later goes on to say that maybe things would have been better with Aerith but her death stopped that.

Aerith would've liked to know more about Cloud... but... If we're talking about who she loves more, and this is not based on my CloudxTifa view, I would never say Cloud. I'll pick a piece from the poster above me for that in a bit.

But, it has been said Aerith loves Cloud more... Aerith even said so herself in VII when she told Cloud she was over Zack. Heck, she even told Zack she was over him.

"...But it soon didn't matter. Aerith loved him much more than her first love. Cloud was her hero and he couldn't get away from danger." - MotP

Zack: "It's not over yet but, I'm going to sleep for a while. It seems there's nothing I can do just now. But whenever you feel lonely, call me Aerith."

Aerith: "Only if I get really lonely. Goodnight, Zack." - MotP

Cloud met Aerith - it's default - not destiny.

Hmm, I'm not so sure.

A.) #056Stealing the Planet from Mother…
Calamity from the skies… Aerith who sells flowers in Midgar saw the commotion and felt uneasy. (something about Avalanche against ShinRa) At the same time, Cloud joins Avalanche in their bombing activities. Aerith meets Cloud and their destinies collide.They start a journey to the Promised Land. A battle that puts the Planet’s future at stake takes place. -Final Fantasy Art Collection Cards


B.) #065 AERITH GAINSBOROUGH
Going to the Promised Land… The fated meeting with Cloud wavers the fate of Aerith.The Cetra language that Aerith heard from her mother when she was young. A person who nurtures the Planet. As the last of the Ancient race, she takes it as her responsibility to go to the Promised Land that she has not seen. Aerith sees traces of Zack in Cloud and her very pure heart leads her to develop a liking for Cloud.

“Well then, let's see...... How about if I go out with you once?”
(Payment for Cloud.)

“No, Cloud... I'm searching for you...”
(First and last date.)

I think it was destiny.

Aside from Cait Sith's luck with predicting the future...

Caith Sith predictions are right, though.

Page120, the marked one
The fortune telling with deep meaning.
Cat Ceith’s divination about the direction toward Sephiroth turns out three consequences. Disregard the previous two, the noticeable one is the third result which becomes the chance for him to follow the party—“What you’re looking for would be yours, but you’ll lose something very dear.”

As the storyline moves on to the event of Forgotten City, the “something very dear” can be read as losing Aerith, and it also hint the event of Cloud’s reaching his self breakdown when the story goes to the Northern Crater.

Not even just that, really, in my opinion. I just can't understand how people can bring up things like "Well if he loved Tifa he would've moved on with her, instead of thinking about Aerith." I mean... How heartless can people be...? The whole team cared for this girl, even if she was just a friend to him, she was a close one, someone each member held dear, so in no way, do I find anyone thinking that to be right. He feels guilty. He let her down after trying to make sure she's safe. Anyone who cares about a friend would do the same. Seriously, guys.

Okay, I'd hate to bring this up... but, why didn't Cloud feel guilty for Zack's death as much as Cloud did towards Aerith's death? And why didn't Cloud make some huge sappy speech about his feelings when he thought Tifa was a gonner?

I agree that everyone in AVALANCHE loved Aerith in their own ways. But as I said before, Nomura said that Cloud's "undying feeling" differs from the platonic love Aerith's friends felt towards her. What's the opposite of platonic? And what feeling is usually said to be undying?

And again, I don't think Zack had anything to do with him liking Aerith. Cloud fell through her church and there she was, tending to him. SHE started to swoon over him, because initially.. he reminded her so much of Zack. But later as the game progress, she saw the differences. She wanted to meet Cloud and know who HE was, and not who she THOUGHT she knew, which was really just pieces of memories of Zack.

Can't really blame the poor girl either, if CC is any indication of how that ended, she was heartbroken over him, and continually so over the years. (Supposedly) She sensed his death and knew something was wrong. She sent so many letters, only to be left hanging, and when you're in a one sided relationship like that, it's hard to just let go without a definite answer. So when she initially found Cloud, I think she was trying to recapture something she lost.. and later on, realized she found something much more than that.

/heavy sigh.

That was a beautiful post, Channi.

 

[Ryushikaze]

Cloud and Tifa

Cloud and Tifa are childhood friends, both born in Nibelheim. When Cloud leaves the village, he calls Tifa out to the water tower and promises that he will become a SOLDIER. At the same time, he is also made by Tifa to promise that he will come to rescue her if she is ever in trouble.

Following this, the pair experience many hardships, such as the Nibelheim incident which also appears in CC, and the Jenova War in FFVII, and through these the distance between them shortens. And in AC they live together, with Barret’s daughter Marlene and a boy named Denzel. Though there was also a period later where Cloud lived away from them after having contracted Geostigma, they finally reach a commune with each over and return to living together once again. In DC, they rush together to Vincent’s aid, in his battle against Deep Ground SOLDIER.

Crisis Core Ulti. Keyword Collection. Their singular keyword.

The only woman who knows Cloud’s past.

In FF7, Tifa is the only one who knows Cloud’s childhood, and furthermore, she holds the key to people involved in the story of Nibelheim’s burning down, which is also depicted in CC. She and Cloud came to realize their feelings for each other in the end of the story, and live together in AC and DC.

Crisis Core. Tifa's profile.

She ventured into Lifestream together with Cloud. Amidst the course of him trying to ascertain his memories, they became aware of the thoughts/feelings which each other was holding.

FF7 10th Anniversary Ultimania. Tifa's profile.

I want to see Cloud — Marlene’s honest words, which reflected what Tifa felt in her own heart, caused her to smile. The present Tifa isn’t just Cloud’s childhood friend, but also the mother of the ‘family’ they were forming in Edge.

Again, Tifa's profile. Important part is 'of the family they were forming in Edge', they meaning Cloud and Tifa.

The more he realizes how happy he is living with Tifa and the children, the more the fear of losing that and regrets toward the past trouble Cloud…

FFVII 10TH Ani Ulti, Cloud's profile, referring to Cloud.

With the support of former allies and Tifa, an important woman to him and now also part of his family, Cloud regains the courage to move forward.

Cloud's profile again. It is Tifa's help that is stressed in Cloud's regaining courage, as well as her being part of his family. Their family.

Compilation Check

A Promise to Tifa, Etched in his Memory.

When Cloud left the village dreaming of being a SOLDIER, he swore to Tifa that he would come running to her rescue if she was in trouble. While it was Tifa who strong-armed him into making the promise, it seems that the idea that he must keep this vow was forever in Cloud’s mind. In BC he is obsessive about protecting people, and if he runs out of strength part way though he will mention the “promise.”


[BC] If he runs out of strength part way through the story, he will say regretfully that he “couldn’t come through on my promise to her.”

Still Cloud's profile.

Sorry. I got here a little late. 」


He lifts a collapsed Tifa up in his arms, and upon seeing her aware of him, he smiles gently.

Cloud's profile, referring to LO. Even out of continuity, it's worth talking about as far as SE is concerned and they want to spend part of it talking about his interaction with Tifa, especially his gentle smile.

· AC – Midgar
Because he contracted Geostigma, he left Tifa and the children, and began living in the Slum church.

· AC – Edge~Midgar
With the help of his friends, he defeated Bahamut SHIN, which Kadaj’s gang had summoned. He defeated Sephiroth after his Advent, and returned to Tifa and the children.

The two, also from Cloud's profile, establish he left Because of Geostigma, and canonically returned to Tifa and the kids after AC/C.

Adding into that the 'For the one I love' page which specifies that the feelings Cloud and Tifa confirm (as outlined in Tifa's profile as happening) are romantic ones, and confirmed without words.

Seriously, there's no actual debate about the final outcome. At best, there can be a debate about the two or so weeks on Disc 1, but that's largely pointless since by January he's acting on his desire for Tifa.

But I can dig up more quotes if you want. The 'Only ever opened his heart to Tifa' is another good one.

 

[Shubito]

As said in this quote;
Tifa: "It’s just that...I was displeased at the way Cloud and another girl soon became good friends.
Well, Aerith is a very good girl, I was fond of her soon, too. No wonder…" -FFVII Dismantled

Then Cloud states that if only she wasn't involved in his battle with Shinra;

Cloud: "If only she was not involved in this battle, between me and Shinra…..
Aerith’s mother told us that she’s a foster child. And because she’s the last survivor of “the Ancents,” Shinra has been after her since she was little.
So far, it seemed the Turks never tried to forcibly take her away in violent manner. They just persistently asked for her cooperation.But, Shinra was entirely impetuous this time.
If Shinra changed the strategy all of a sudden, then no one can guarantee her safety.
I need to get in Shinra building.
I need to rescue her……by all means!" - Dismantled

I think it's safe to say Cloud went in there for his own feelings towards her, whether or not they're love.

I agree with all this. I mean by this point you need to think about Aerith's importance to AVALANCHE. Aerith barely knew Cloud, Tifa, or Barret, but she still tended to Wedge (Probably all the way up until he died) and made sure Barrets daughter didn't you know, die.

At this point it would go beyond just oweing someone. Aerith is apart of 'Avalanche', therefor the group, and everyone is pretty set on rescuing her because of what she did for them, out of their own admiration.

Hmm, to be honest, right now, I'm not focusing on what the date means. I just want to establish that Aerith is the default/canon date.

She might be default... But I still don't know if it's safe to say she's Canon. While she is the one that promised a date to Cloud, the creators have never said that was the outcome that happened.

And the theme 'Words drownd into Fireworks' really does only apply to Tifa, when it comes to the date. I think if anything it just depends on who you were going for, since Aerith is easier to get, but the theme playing matches Tifa's date. It's obvious a love triangle is present at this point and you can 'choose' who you like on disc one so that may have been taken into consideration when that particular scene was being made.

Secret date
At the Gold Saucer, Cloud receives an invitation from one of his companions. Who comes around with the invitation is dependent on Cloud’s behavior.
FF20th Anniversary Ultimania

Aerith is default, but the atmosphere fits Tifa's date, and both fit into the love triangle, and the plot rather nicely, but they have never said with was canon.

Well, during the Honey Bee Mansion scene, Johnny, Tifa's friend, asks Cloud this question after seeing Cloud and Aerith heading into the lovers INN;
Johnny; "You're Tifa's childhood friend, and you brought a girlfriend
to a place like this!?"

I always thought it was pretty significant that Tifa's friend saw Aerith as Cloud's girlfriend.

Not to mention, Cloud says to Marlene that he hopes Aerith likes him too.

Well the nurse in Mideel thinks Cloud and Tifa are an item. Vincent also comments on "A love that may consume you in the end" to Tifa, when she is looking for Cloud. Barret also says "Want to meet your little baby?" Only if you talk to him while Tifa is outside apologizing. So the Cloud and Aerith getting seen as a 'couple' isn't exclusive to just them.

And Cloud saying that to Marlene is optional, isn't it? He can also say "I don't know".

Well, Cloud continues acting as her bodyguard... and he said for him to be her bodyguard she would have to "pay" him in some way. To which Aerith offers a date followed by Cloud nodding his head then on top of that, he's always bringing up the fact that he's her bodyguard. In the Shinra prison cell, when Aerith says "I knew Cloud would come for me" Cloud says "Hey, I'm your bodygaurd right?" and then Aerith replies by saying; "The deal was for one date, right?" And Cloud never says that wasn't the deal.

If the deal wasn't for a date, then Cloud would have pointed it out here.

Aerith saying; "How about I go out with you once?" and Cloud nodding means it was a promise. Because Aerith promised Cloud a date for his protection. Making their date the promised one.

Aerith
"Hee, hee!"

Cloud
"What's wrong?"

(She leans toward Cloud)

Aerith
"You want to go on a date?"

Cloud
"What?"

Aerith
"A DA-TE! Or haven't you ever gone on one?"

<CHOICE>
Don't take me for a fool
Well, not a real one...

***Cloud
Don't take me for a fool

(He crosses his arms)

Aerith
"Hey... a littke touchy, aren't we?"

***Cloud
Well, not a real one...

Aerith
"No, just a mixed-up kid..."

(She runs around behind him and starts pushing him out the door)

Aerith
"Oh well. Come on, let's go."

Cloud
"Hey."

Why does he act like he has no idea what she's talking about here then though? I always took his motion to be that of surprised embarressment, when she offered him a date, and wasn't really holding her to her word. Especially since when she comes up talking about the date, he acts so confused and surprised...

Okay, I'd hate to bring this up... but, why didn't Cloud feel guilty for Zack's death as much as Cloud did towards Aerith's death? And why didn't Cloud make some huge sappy speech about his feelings when he thought Tifa was a gonner?

I think Cloud felt pretty guilty for Zacks death... I mean he screamed over it. It messed him up pretty bad... He had about the same reaction is his demeanor which was he felt helpless, and overwhelmed with sadness...

Which is where I make my counterargument

Cloud admitted that he felt really sad when he thought Tifa might die, but he had a completely different reaction than a helpless sadness. He had an overwhelming anger at the situation, which is why I see Cloud's feelings to be stronger for Tifa.

He killed Sephiroth, in a rage, because he thought she was dead. Cloud is no where near Sephiroth's skill, in terms of power. Cloud gained a vengence and strength, to kill Tifa's killer. I'm not saying his sadness at Aerith's death is any less powerful, but I think he showed to very different forms of loss there, and when he 'lost' Tifa it gave him an inhuman strength to kill a man far out of his league in terms of power.

 

[The Witch]

ANYTHING NOT IN PINK IS A QUOTE. THEY ARE IMPORTANT QUOTES. Please read them. I don't want us skipping quotes and whatnot.

I agree with all this. I mean by this point you need to think about Aerith's
importance to AVALANCHE. Aerith barely knew Cloud, Tifa, or Barret, but she still tended to Wedge (Probably all the way up until he died) and made sure Barrets daughter didn't you know, die.

At this point it would go beyond just oweing someone. Aerith is apart of 'Avalanche', therefor the group, and everyone is pretty set on rescuing her because of what she did for them, out of their own admiration.

Yes, exactly. Not to mention, Cloud was growing very close to Aerith, even Tifa saw how close he had gotten to Aerith just in the Don's mansion scene.

Tifa: in Don's Mansion

Hummm... I was in a complicated mood today—I was happy, but somehow, I felt annoyed at the same time.
(snip)
It’s just that...I was displeased at the way Cloud and another girl soon became good friends.
Well, Aerith is a very good girl, I was fond of her soon, too. No wonder..." - Dismantled

She might be default... But I still don't know if it's safe to say she's Canon. While she is the one that promised a date to Cloud, the creators have never said that was the outcome that happened.

Okay, but what about this;

a.) Aerith: "Well then, let's see...... How about if I go out with you once?"
(Payment for Cloud.)

Aerith: "No, Cloud... I'm searching for you..."
(First and last date.)
- from the Final Fantasy Art Collection -

The first line is when the date first comes up, which suggests that it will eventually come to pass. The second line acknowledges the date between Cloud and Aerith and says it is their last. Meaning the date did occur.
For it to have been Tifa as the default date, that means Cloud and Aerith's date couldn't have been said to be their last.

Again, this quote says it is their promised date.

{#111 The Planet's largest amusement park is run by Dio. Cloud and company visit this place many times in their battle. They meet Cait Sith here. Apromised date that ends in a magical night. In the city of desire that floats above the sands, the light memory of the two people is asleep even now...

Aerith: "I think I must have seen him again, in you... But you're different. Things are different... No, Cloud... I'm searching for you..."}


The first heavy font part--A promised date that ends in a magical night--could only be talking about the date Aerith promised Cloud for his protection. If it was Tifa who was supposed to be the date, it really wouldn't be described as a "promised date" I don't think. As we all know, no where in the game does Cloud or Tifa ever promise each other a date. Like, ever.

The only person to promise a date is Aerith<--->Cloud. No one else.
Even if you disregard the first heavy-font sentence, the second heavy-font I provided, which is Aerith's "I want to meet you" quote, proves it's Aerith's date that is the promised date Cloud goes on.

If it were truly Tifa who was the default/canon date, then they shouldn't have used any of Aerith's lines when speaking about this date in the city of desire.

Why does he act like he has no idea what she's talking about here then though? I always took his motion to be that of surprised embarressment, when she offered him a date, and wasn't really holding her to her word. Especially since when she comes up talking about the date, he acts so confused and surprised...

He acts that way, because he's Cloud. Cloud is shy and awkward.

I think Cloud felt pretty guilty for Zacks death... I mean he screamed over it. It messed him up pretty bad... He had about the same reaction is his demeanor which was he felt helpless, and overwhelmed with sadness...

Oh, no doubt he felt guilty for him. But did you ever notice after Cloud learns of his true past he doesn't ever speak of Zack or his death? And then, if his guilt for Zack was the same as his guilt for Aerith, why is it only Aerith he seeks forgiveness from? Why is she the only one that can heal Cloud's heart? I mean, Cloud spoke to Zack during ACC but he never asked for forgiveness.

Cloud was hurt that his best friend died, but to say he carries the same immense amount of guilt for Zack as Cloud does for Aerith is just... not true.

Cloud admitted that he felt really sad when he thought Tifa might die, but he had a completely different reaction than a helpless sadness. He had an overwhelming anger at the situation, which is why I see Cloud's feelings to be stronger for Tifa.

I'm not so sure. When a person loses the one they love the thing on their mind is to be with the one they thought were dead/dying.

Like during Aerith's death, when Cloud hears Sephiroth going on about his master plan to destroy the world and its people, Cloud tells him to shut up and that his plan and the cycle of nature doesn't mean a thing... all because Aerith was gone.

Sephiroth:"Do not worry. Soon the girl will become part of the Planet's energy. All that is left is to go North. The 'Promised Land' waits for me over the snowy fields. There I will become a new being by uniting with the planet. As will this girl... " Cloud:"...Shut up." (He bows his head closer to Aerith, trembling. He abruptly looks up to Sephiroth.) Cloud:"The cycle of nature and your stupid plan don't mean a thing." Cloud:"Aerith is gone." "Aerith will no longer talk, no longer laugh, cry...... or get angry......" (He slowly turns his head back to Aerith's sleeping face.) (He holds her body closer to his and bows his head forward.)


Then during the death Cloud thinks this;
Cloud: "Aerith is dead. Right in front of my eyes... I couldn't stop Sephiroth.

She was in my reach, and all I could do was stand there and watch as his sword ran through her. Aerith used to smile, like a flower all the time...

But, Aerith won't smile anymore... I won't be able to hear her innocent laugh again.

What did she do? Why did Aerith have to die? What am I supposed to do about this anger, it's endlessly boiling and burning up my body. Yet at the same time, I was afraid. Like a chill coming from the core of my body.

When I found Aerith there, offering up some prayer, what did I try to do? If my friends hadn't stopped me at that moment, I would have struck my sword down on Aerith. It was something separate from my own will... it was like when I gave Sephiroth the Black Materia---Who am I? I'm EX-SOLDIER Cloud... right? Tell me, Aerith---" - DISMANTLED

The way Cloud felt for Zack's death cannot be compared to the immense amount of pain and sorrow Cloud felt when Aerith died in his arms.

He killed Sephiroth, in a rage, because he thought she was dead. Cloud is no where near Sephiroth's skill, in terms of power. Cloud gained a vengence and strength, to kill Tifa's killer. I'm not saying his sadness at Aerith's death is any less powerful, but I think he showed to very different forms of loss there, and when he 'lost' Tifa it gave him an inhuman strength to kill a man far out of his league in terms of power.

And for Aerith's death, Cloud's heart and mind shattered with pain that would never go away. At Aerith's death, Cloud stopped caring about everything in the world and what could happen to it (Tifa's in that world, mind you)... all because Aerith died, all because he was never going to hear her laugh or see her smile...

Hence, the bittersweet beauty of Cloud's love for the woman he has undying love for... Aerith.

 

[Sum1sgruj]

It pisses me off bc Tifa was his childhood friend.. he shouldve been with her. and anyways, shes hotter

You we're an ex-member of Soldier, right?
"Yeah, in my head", FF7 Advent Children

 

[The Witch]

It pisses me off bc Tifa was his childhood friend.. he shouldve been with her. and anyways, shes hotter

You we're an ex-member of Soldier, right?
"Yeah, in my head", FF7 Advent Children

Aerith died for him and she's prettier.







See what I did thar? Those type of comments will do this subject no good. So let's not do that, okay.

 

[Shubito]

Okay, but what about this;

a.) Aerith: "Well then, let's see...... How about if I go out with you once?"
(Payment for Cloud.)

Aerith: "No, Cloud... I'm searching for you..."
(First and last date.)
- from the Final Fantasy Art Collection -

The first line is when the date first comes up, which suggests that it will eventually come to pass. The second line acknowledges the date between Cloud and Aerith and says it is their last. Meaning the date did occur.
For it to have been Tifa as the default date, that means Cloud and Aerith's date couldn't have been said to be their last.

But there are also instances where they have said the date is solely dependent on Clouds behavior. Not to mention, also instances where Tifa's date has said to of occurred as well.


[FFVII] "She is shy when it comes to love. She's getting better at plainly expressing her feelings to Cloud, though, and can do so more easily now." -Tifa's U20 profile.

This talks about Tifa's date as if it occurred, and not only is it saying that, but it's also a part of Tifa's growth as a character, meaning its apart of the plot. Tifa getting better at expressing herself to Cloud.

Again, this quote says it is their promised date.

{#111 The Planet's largest amusement park is run by Dio. Cloud and company visit this place many times in their battle. They meet Cait Sith here. Apromised date that ends in a magical night. In the city of desire that floats above the sands, the light memory of the two people is asleep even now...

Aerith: "I think I must have seen him again, in you... But you're different. Things are different... No, Cloud... I'm searching for you..."}


The first heavy font part--A promised date that ends in a magical night--could only be talking about the date Aerith promised Cloud for his protection. If it was Tifa who was supposed to be the date, it really wouldn't be described as a "promised date" I don't think. As we all know, no where in the game does Cloud or Tifa ever promise each other a date. Like, ever.

The only person to promise a date is Aerith<--->Cloud. No one else.
Even if you disregard the first heavy-font sentence, the second heavy-font I provided, which is Aerith's "I want to meet you" quote, proves it's Aerith's date that is the promised date Cloud goes on.

If it were truly Tifa who was the default/canon date, then they shouldn't have used any of Aerith's lines when speaking about this date in the city of desire.

Aerith is the only one who promises him a date. Although there is instances where Tifa's date also gets talked about as though it happened, and there are instances where it's plainly said there is no Canon date, and that is dependent on the choices you make throughout disc one.

something to also consider-

[caption of Tifa's date]
Tifa tries to reveal her feelings to Cloud, but can't say it in the end.-
from Final Fantasy 20th Ultimania

He acts that way, because he's Cloud. Cloud is shy and awkward.

But he acts surprised. He acts like he has no idea what she's talking about, which is why I argue he didn't accept the date as an actual form of payment. Or else he'd have been expecting the date, but he wasn't, therefor not holding her to her word on it.

Oh, no doubt he felt guilty for him. But did you ever notice after Cloud learns of his true past he doesn't ever speak of Zack or his death? And then, if his guilt for Zack was the same as his guilt for Aerith, why is it only Aerith he seeks forgiveness from? Why is she the only one that can heal Cloud's heart? I mean, Cloud spoke to Zack during ACC but he never asked for forgiveness.

Well that's easy. For one, the circumstances were extremely different between Zack, and Aerith.
1. Zack was a soldier, deserting soldier from a lab/Aerith was an innocent flower seller.
2. Cloud was passed out when Zack was fighting his own battle as a Soldier deserting the army/Aerith was right in front of him, and got killed.
3. Cloud couldn't have done anything to help Zack, he was out of it/ He was right there, and almost killed her himself, then watched her be killed, at full capacity to stop it, but still didn't.

He seeks forgiveness because virtually, he could have done something. He takes her death personal because he never wanted Aerith to be involved in the first place. Then she was killed right in front of him.

Cloud was hurt that his best friend died, but to say he carries the same immense amount of guilt for Zack as Cloud does for Aerith is just... not true.

I don't think he carries the same amount of guilt for Zack's death... the sadness he felt was the same.

I'm not so sure. When a person loses the one they love the thing on their mind is to be with the one they thought were dead/dying.

Like during Aerith's death, when Cloud hears Sephiroth going on about his master plan to destroy the world and its people, Cloud tells him to shut up and that his plan and the cycle of nature doesn't mean a thing... all because Aerith was gone.

Right, he feels an overwhelming sadness. Cloud would feel sadness had anyone in the team died at this point. I think the difference is, is that he takes Aerith's death as his own personal failure, because he could have done something in his own mind, and in his physical capacity, to stop it. It was a death that could have been prevented, of an innocent girl, to him.

Then during the death Cloud thinks this;
Cloud: "Aerith is dead. Right in front of my eyes... I couldn't stop Sephiroth.

She was in my reach, and all I could do was stand there and watch as his sword ran through her. Aerith used to smile, like a flower all the time...

But, Aerith won't smile anymore... I won't be able to hear her innocent laugh again.

What did she do? Why did Aerith have to die? What am I supposed to do about this anger, it's endlessly boiling and burning up my body. Yet at the same time, I was afraid. Like a chill coming from the core of my body.

When I found Aerith there, offering up some prayer, what did I try to do? If my friends hadn't stopped me at that moment, I would have struck my sword down on Aerith. It was something separate from my own will... it was like when I gave Sephiroth the Black Materia---Who am I? I'm EX-SOLDIER Cloud... right? Tell me, Aerith---" - DISMANTLED

The way Cloud felt for Zack's death cannot be compared to the immense amount of pain and sorrow Cloud felt when Aerith died in his arms.

We're never given a clear look at how Cloud felt during Zack's death... But consider Zack was not killed by the man who Cloud already hated.

Consider there was nothing Cloud could do to save Zack, and in Clouds mind, he could have stopped Aerith's death, which would greatly heighten sorrow, but it does not mean it's explicitly romantic.

And for Aerith's death, Cloud's heart and mind shattered with pain that would never go away. At Aerith's death, Cloud stopped caring about everything in the world and what could happen to it (Tifa's in that world, mind you)... all because Aerith died, all because he was never going to hear her laugh or see her smile...

Now, now. Where did it say he stopped caring about everything in the world and what happened to it again? I didn't see that bit.

Though take this into consideration if you would. You said earlier the first thing on someones mind, would be to be with the one you loved? Well in FFVII, when Cloud finds Tifa, he holds her in his lap, strokes her face, looking straight at her. His entire village was burned down, his mother dead, Tifa dying, and now Zack possibly dying. Zack tells Cloud to kill Sephiroth.

And despite Cloud loving Aerith or not, it IS canon he loved Tifa from childhood ~ Crisis Core (At the very minimum). He actually kills Sephiroth, and Tifa being the girl he loves at this point, would be the driving force for all his emotions.

You can't say Cloud doesn't feel the same way towards Tifa's death because we aren't given an inside preview to his thoughts. They could be stronger, they could be weaker. His actions are all we have to go by, and the fact that a grunt, killed the strongest SOLDIER says something about how strong the feelings of loss, and vengeance are.

Directly after that, is when they get taken to the lab. He didn't get the chance to go back to Tifa. He passed out and was then in a lab with Zack, they ran, Zack died, he met Tifa again, but was messed up, not himself, with all his memories muddled.

But onto more discussion!

Tifa's FFVII art collection card.
Tifa closes her mouth tight... She was reunited with Cloud as a member of Avalanche but has doubts about Cloud's transformation from the Nibelheim incident 5 years ago. Her complicated feelings for Cloud exceed that of 'childhood friends' and is what solves and loosens up his internal trauma. That is, she personally took a journey into his past...

"You really, really are..... you... right?"
She asks Cloud when surrounded by Cosmo Candle.

"Cloud... Words aren't the only thing that tell people what you're thinking..."
Said to Cloud, when the two are left alone the night before the final battle

So it says it's Tifa's feelings... that exceed Childhood friends... IS what SOLVES and LOOSENS his internal trauma... Why would Tifa's love, solve his internal trauma, if he did not return some sort of feelings for her? Paired with talking about Tifa's love being vital to Cloud, is the infamous line of her confessing herself to Cloud.

Why would they talk about Tifa's love for Cloud, and paired up with her confession to Cloud, during the HW scene, which would imply the one where strong romantic feelings are shared mutually between them...

As for more information on which date is canon.

VII – Secret date
At the Gold Saucer, Cloud receives an invitation from one of his companions. Who comes around with the invitation is dependent on Cloud’s behavior.

Which is on the 'For the one I love page' now that shows the date between Cloud and Aerith, but the caption explicitly says the invitation is dependent on Clouds behavior, and is outwardly not stating any date is Canon. If Aerith's date was canon, why doesn't it just say so, right there, under the picture of the two of them, on a page called 'For the one I Love'

VII – The night before the final battle
Thanks to Tifa, Cloud regains himself, and before the final battle with Sephiroth, without using words, he confirms with her that their feelings match.

This is saying, outwardly that CLOUD confirms with TIFA that they have matching, mutual feelings. We know Tifa loves Cloud in FFVII. We know she loves him in ACC. We know she loves him in DoC. Therefor, for her feelings to be matched, and mutual, to Clouds, they would have to be that of love. Those are what her feelings indicate, and if they were anything less then love, they wouldn't be matching.

Hence, the bittersweet beauty of Cloud's love for the woman he has undying love for... Aerith.

Now, now you. :3 Not yet shall that be the conclusion!

 

[Six]

Cali, with all respect, I will reply to all the posts in this thread, or at least bits and pieces. Though, I'd like to know where you get the quotes from Final Fantasy VII's Dismantled from. All I've seen it on is clerith.com, and from what I've seen even months ago, well, to say the least, even for CloudxAerith supporters, they don't seem... Logical.

So I'm just wondering, 'cause I'd love to read some Dismantled stuff too.

 

[Shubito]

Cali, with all respect, I will reply to all the posts in this thread, or at least bits and pieces. Though, I'd like to know where you get the quotes from Final Fantasy VII's Dismantled from. All I've seen it on is clerith.com, and from what I've seen even months ago, well, to say the least, even for CloudxAerith supporters, they don't seem... Logical.

So I'm just wondering, 'cause I'd love to read some Dismantled stuff too.

Final Fantasy VII the complete Dismantling is a discussion booklet. While most of it remains untranslated. (so the possibility of Cloud and Tifa hints, are also just as expectant, but I don't believe any of the Cloud and Tifa supporting translators have gotten around to looking much into the book themselves.)

What Cali posts are actual excerpts from Dismantling. Although it should also be noted Ultimania Omega both 10th, and the 20th are seen as updated version of Dismantling, with more information.

Book seen here-http://www.bent.co.jp/main/works/ks03/naiyo_fr.htm

 

[Six]

Alrighty, thank you very much. It's no use to me really. I'm hoping to find something translated officially by a non-couple-supporter sometime. Damn japanese and their 'only released in our own language'

 

[Shubito]

Alrighty, thank you very much. It's no use to me really. I'm hoping to find something translated officially by a non-couple-supporter sometime. Damn japanese and their 'only released in our own language'

If I find more (Relevant to the topic I will post it)

As a side note, it doesn't come out in english for the fact that it is speculated it just would not sell as much. It would in turn, be a bust on their part in terms of money. It's not in any way a racial thing, seeing as experienced American gamers helped with the development and debugging of Final Fantasy VII.

as a side side note- Many Final Fantasy fans (such as yourself) really don't know much about Dismantled, since it is a much older book (and also came out around the time FF7 was very new) which is another reason why it was never translated. FF7 probably wasn't AS big in the US as it was in Japan, and Japanese fans are more interested in the official books, where as many fans elsewhere, even if they do know about the books Dismantled/Ultimania they'd rather just read the sections, rather than actually buy it.

 

[Quexinos]

I think the reason Dismantled gets pushed to the side is because it's so old. But I myself would love to know more about it. If you ever find it for a decent price or anything, I can maybe go half with you. You can scan the pages and we can have someone translate them.

EDIT:
Found it on ebay for a decent price, I might buy it.

 

[The Witch]

Cali, with all respect, I will reply to all the posts in this thread, or at least bits and pieces. Though, I'd like to know where you get the quotes from Final Fantasy VII's Dismantled from. All I've seen it on is clerith.com, and from what I've seen even months ago, well, to say the least, even for CloudxAerith supporters, they don't seem... Logical.

So I'm just wondering, 'cause I'd love to read some Dismantled stuff too.

Well, that would be pretty hard, Seeing how the CxA side is the only one to translate the book. I think it might do with the fact that it has a lot of Clourithy stuff in it.


Why don't they seem logical?

 

[Six]

Tifa: "It’s just that...I was displeased at the way*Cloud and another girl soon became good friends.
Well, Aerith is a very good girl, I was fond of her soon, too. No wonder…" -FFVII Dismantled

To me, this is normal. I'm not sure about the wording of displeased, but if course you get insecure of another girl comes in to the picture. Even at Don's mansion Tifa didn't know Aerith, and she still seemed a little upset how she was with Cloud. Which, if she cares for him so much, is understandable. Like Aerith, here...

"You did it, Tifa. Thank you... I'm a little jealous of you but, do take care of Cloud and the upper world."

Tifa embraced Cloud tightly as he returned to his senses. Aerith watched as both of them returned to the surface while smiling like an affectionate mother.

It was a dazzling sight for Zack. – MotP

A lot of this had to do with Aeris protecting Marlene from Shinra. And he did partly it for Aeris' mom too.

-

What makes you think that? Cloud never actually says that. Cloud was friends with Aerith by the time she was taken by the Shinra.

Because he feels guilty. You can see that when they're talking to her mother, of course he doesn't want her to worry. To me that doesn't need to be stated, that's just human nature feelings, unless I'm totally off with this. I'd feel responsible, after her mother told me to leave during the night, she got involved anyway, and then gets kidnapped.

Then Cloud states that if only she wasn't involved in his battle with Shinra.

I think it's safe to say Cloud went in there for his own feelings towards her, whether or not they're love.

And I'll agree with this partially, but in all fairness... I don't see anyone just walking away after these events, and to be even more honest, I don't even think Tifa would just let him walk away like that, she even said that about going to help Aerith. Barret too would feel way too guilty over her getting caught trying to put Marlene to safety. Fair's fair.

Yes. I do know that. But Nomura has stated more than once Aerith loves Cloud for Cloud and isn't in love with Zack anymore. How can you blame me for following what the creater says? Until a quote appears talking about Aerith possibly falling out of love with Cloud. It's just fan speculation without any real meaning behind it.

However, if you prefer to think that Aerith loves Zack, feel free. Just know that Aerith isn't officially.

Nothing we can state is official couple wise, really. However, I don't think (JUST like Tifa and Cloud can't) Aerith can't just forget and pretend there's no feelings for Zack when they were younger. She did send him so many letters, and it wasn't Zack's fault for never being able to get back to her again... I mean =/ You could clearly see how much he regretted being in SOLDIER, and it just seemed written on his face he'd give up anything to just go home to Aerith. <3 I love them, but that not enough to fuss about who loves her and who doesn't. XD

Hmm, to be honest, right now, I'm not focusing on what the date means. I just want to establish that Aerith is the default/canon date.

There is no canon date. There can't be if there are optional dates. Just because Aerith is “easiest” to get, it doesn't make it canon... Because some people might play the game completely different, not hating any characters, and get another character, which... establishes that there is no canon date. So Aerith being the canon date isn't true.

Once again, that'd be like claiming Tifa is canon because she is the only one interrupted by fireworks. It might be, but once again, there's no statement of that being so, and if they both are filling up the missing pieces that still makes it two variations... which, is not canon, in my book.

Well, during the Honey Bee Mansion scene, Johnny, Tifa's friend, asks Cloud this question after seeing Cloud and Aerith heading into the lovers INN;
Johnny; "You're Tifa's childhood friend, and you brought a girlfriend to a place like this!?"

I always thought it was pretty significant that Tifa's friend saw Aerith as Cloud's girlfriend.

Johnny is also jealous of how well Cloud gets along with Tifa, before he leaves the sector at Tifa's bar, he says Cloud has to take care of Tifa.

Not to mention Barret's line in the game, when they're about to jump off the train “Hey, you two! There ain't no time for that!” basically telling them to hurry up the mushyness.

Also, that people outside the Seventh Heaven notice how close Cloud and Tifa are, making sarcastic remarks about them just being childhood friends.

And, like Shubito said, the nurse in Mideel thinks Cloud and Tifa are a couple, Vincent's line, and once again, Barret stating if he wants to meet his little baby. That's a lot more people than just Johnny.

And, even though it's already been pointed out...

Not to mention, Cloud says to Marlene that he hopes Aerith likes him too.

That's not true. It's a players choice, making it once again, not default that he likes her or not.

Why does he act like he has no idea what she's talking about here then though? I always took his motion to be that of surprised embarressment, when she offered him a date, and wasn't really holding her to her word. Especially since when she comes up talking about the date, he acts so confused and surprised...

Interesting way of thinking there. It does make sense to me, seeing I didn't see him or the motion he made to be a nod. XD

Okay, I'd hate to bring this up... but, why didn't Cloud feel guilty for Zack's death as much as Cloud did towards Aerith's death? And why didn't Cloud make some huge sappy speech about his feelings when he thought Tifa was a gonner?

I agree that everyone in AVALANCHE loved Aerith in their own ways. But as I said before, Nomura said that Cloud's "undying feeling" differs from the platonic love Aerith's friends felt towards her. What's the opposite of platonic? And what feeling is usually said to be undying?

…That was weird... I can't really see where you're coming from at all with the first paragraph... Cloud was younger when Zack died, and his whole attitude changed with the mako he was exposed to, and I believe losing Zack had to do with it a fair deal as well... Like mentioned, he screams when Zack dies, he cries, he sinks to the ground... The way you react to death doesn't specifically mean you care for someone more though...?

If I can be totally honest, the only one out of the three (Zack, Tifa and Aerith) he's least expressive about right away, is Aerith.

I think that if they would've made Cloud give a sappy speech it'd be out of character for him. After all, Tifa doesn't know exactly how he feels for her, or that he loves her, so him blurting that out right in front of everyone wouldn't only be out of character but a little over the top if you think realistically as well... I think he'd tell her this personally... And he has in the Lifestream.

Undying feelings don't necessarily have to be 'I love you' feelings. I do think Cloud cared for Aerith, and even loved her, but not like that. That of course is just my opinion. However, the undying love thing, I really don't think he'd ever forget about her OR Zack at that.

1. "She communicates her feelings together with Cloud in the final stages of the story, and in AC and DC they live together." - pg. 33 – Crisis Core Ultimania 2007

2. "Inside, I felt one thing was for sure: Cloud and Tifa would be together" - Reunion Files

3. "...first off, there's the premise that things aren't going well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without Geostigma or Sephiroth this might be the same. I don't really intend to go about my views on love or marriage or family (laughs). After ACC, I guess Denzel and Marlene could help them work it out." - Interview on Case of Tifa

4. "If Tifa's affection regarding Cloud is high, when the two stay behind at the airship, they will confirm that their feelings of desire/wanting for one another match." - pg 27

5. "When their companions disperse to the places where people important to them await, Cloud and Tifa are the only two to remain behind. They reveal their mutual feelings in their final hours, and......." - pg. 198 Ultimania Omega 2005

6. "Cloud and Tifa, who remain, reveal their feelings for each other and confirm them to match." pg. 118 (120 of revised version) - 10th Anniversary Ultimania 2007/2009

Besides that I'd still like to point out a few things from Tifa's profile.

"Apart from being Cloud’s childhood friend, [Tifa} is also the woman who understands him all too well and devotedly supports the mentally-weak side of him." -Tifa's profile

"She ventured into Lifestream together with Cloud. Amidst the course of him trying to ascertain his memories, they became aware of the thoughts/feelings which each other was holding." - Tifa's profile

"The present Tifa isn’t just Cloud’s childhood friend, but also the mother of the ‘family’ they were forming in Edge." - Tifa's profile

"With the support of former allies and Tifa, an important woman to him and now also part of his family, Cloud regains the courage to move forward." - Cloud's profile

-

Aerith wanting to 'meet the real Cloud', I've always seen as her just knowing he was messed up by the Mako, and that she knows Cloud is a different and his own person, she has feelings for him and she wants to get to know him, but that doesn't say anything about Cloud's feelings though...

The way Cloud felt for Zack's death cannot be compared to the immense amount of pain and sorrow Cloud felt when Aerith died in his arms.

I think she was already dead before he cupped her up in his arms, but I don't thikn you can compare Cloud's feelings, since once again, Cloud's bond and his reaction towards Zack never really got detailed out, but the ending of Crisis Core says enough for me. I guess that's just how you see it really, but... The immense amount of pain and sorrow was more clear to me with Zack, than it was with Aerith.

Cloud said the same about his home town to Sephiroth.

“Mom... Tifa... My town... Give it back!”


….........I'm done for tonight. xD My fingers hurt. I cannot be bothered to fix my typos.

 

[Quexinos]

Well, that would be pretty hard, Seeing how the CxA side is the only one to translate the book. I think it might do with the fact that it has a lot of Clourithy stuff in it.

Hi!


I am still working on this BTW... I just have been a little busy and... some of the dialogues are hard to translate, the profiles aren't that bad though so I recently went back to doing them. I even got some nice Clerithy quotes for you, remember?

5. Aerith does her impressive appearance as the slum's flower vendor. The destined encounter with Cloud winds her, the only survivor of the Ancient species, up in the vortex of a huge fight. Where is the promised land? While being trifled with by fate, Aerith puts all her energy attempting to accomplish her role as "Cetra" to bring up the planet without fear of the harsh ending.

 

[Baron Van Wolfen]

I myself think think cloud has already made this decision, as you can see in his profile(http://ultimania.ff7compilation.net/profile/cloud.php):

''The more he realizes how happy he is living with Tifa and the children, the more the fear of losing that and regrets toward the past trouble Cloud...''

"With the support of former allies and Tifa, an important woman to him and now also part of his family, Cloud regains the courage to move forward."


So yes aerith is unfortunately ultimately dead. Cloud has moved on with with the guilt of not being able to prevent aerith and zack's deaths. He's happy, let the guy live in peace

 

[Quexinos]

The big deciding factor in Cloud choosing Tifa for me is the Lifestream Sequence. I know a lot of people might say that it was just Cloud putting his past together, but there were feelings hidden in there too. The UO talks about how Cloud had hidden feelings that no one knew (A reference to a tender wish no one could know), Tifa was the KEY to putting Cloud back together, and those feelings are then communicated (and still being communicated). If that sequence was just about putting Cloud back together, there'd be no talk about honest feelings and then them being communicated. The fact that he's living with Tifa and raising a family with her leads me to believe those were feelings of love.

 

[The Witch]

...

Death doesn't mean he didn't love her, though. Even if Cloud moves on with anyone, that doesn't take away his love for Aerith.

I mean, if Aerith wouldn't have died, Cloud and her would be married right about now.

(Caption beside the screen of Cloud holding Aerith's body)
"Cloud: holding Aerith's lifeless body tightly in his arms"

Omega Page 151, the marked tidbit explaining CS's last fortune telling.
The last fortune telling from Cat Sith No. 1.

After solving the puzzle about Cat Sith's replaceable body, he tells one last fortune of Cloud and Aerith's affinity.

The result of it turns out "Aerith-san's star and Cloud-san's star! They promise a great future!" After that, it will become a sad prediction if we get to know what would happen afterward. But if we can catch the meaning of the "future" from another angle, we can see hope.....perhaps.

Caption:Cat Sith's lines which seem to expect Cloud and Aerith's wedding now makes it more painful. -FFVII Ultimania Omega

And honestly, despite any evidence there could be for Cloud and Tifa, Cloud and Tifa still aren't together... even four years after Aerith's death. In my opinion, if they haven't somehow gotten together in that period of time, it'll never happen.

And yes, Cloud lives at Seventh Heaven, I know. But so did Barret... the same with Jesse, Biggs, and Wedge at first. Doesn't mean they're all in love, right? If they(Cloud and Tifa) were romantically involved, Cloud wouldn't have his own room. And come to think of it, to think we would have seen them kiss or somethin' :/

 

[Six]

Death doesn't mean he didn't love her, though. Even if Cloud moves on with anyone, that doesn't take away his love for Aerith.

Death doesn't take away anyone's love for anything. I don't think anyone said that, it does break the fact of having a chance in real life together.

Cloud does love Aerith, just like everyone in AVALANCHE loved her, I just don't agree/think it was a relationship love interest. I stand by what I think, he loved her as a real close friend, just like the others did.

I mean, if Aerith wouldn't have died, Cloud and her would be married right about now.

I don't think so. Cloud knew Tifa when they were kids, and if you pay attention to how much he went out of his way for her to notice him, and what roads they've been on together, I find it impossible to believe he would've jumped in a magic cart with Aerith only after meeting her not too long before.

About the Cait Sith quotes, and this has been my opinion even before I got in to the pairings, you can't just assume just because a fortune teller says their stars are perfect, and that they'd be perfect for each other, their minds are set the same. I mean imagine if Cloud was happily married to someone else at that time? I don't think he'd drop anyone just 'cause his star is perfect. You take your own decisions, if I'm not mistaken, and not have yourself told by a fortune teller, that also betrayed the whole party.... Just my opinion (even before I liked any pairings - just saying).

And honestly, despite any evidence there could be for Cloud and Tifa, Cloud and Tifa still aren't together... even four years after Aerith's death. In my opinion, if they haven't somehow gotten together in that period of time, it'll never happen.

Love shouldn't be put in a jar with a limited amount of oxygen. You can't rush these things. There are enough little facts lingering around to have everyone know how much Cloud cares - loves Tifa. The scene in FFVII, in the lifestream, Crisis Core, the whole dialogue between the two, the connection she has with Cloud, is something no one else has, Cloud's stated the same. No matter what anyone else says, it's her opinion that matters to him.

And yes, Cloud lives at Seventh Heaven, I know. But so did Barret... the same with Jesse, Biggs, and Wedge at first. Doesn't mean they're all in love, right? If they(Cloud and Tifa) were romantically involved, Cloud wouldn't have his own room. And come to think of it, to think we would have seen them kiss or somethin' :/

Even the Cloti fans don't know the deal with the rooms in Seventh Heaven, so neither parties have room to talk about this, or make assumptions, period. There's no evidence on either side. Also, no, we haven't seen them kiss, but neither have Cloud and Aerith, unless he dived into the pond during his confused mind set, heh.

Either way though... I agree with Quexinos, Tifa was and always will be the key to Cloud's real self, which to me, means she knows Cloud more than anyone, and... If Cloud didn't want it that way, he probably wouldn't have opened up so honestly to her in the Lifestream. <3