Cloud's Love Triangle - The LTD of FFVII

[Baron Van Wolfen]

I know and I'm asking if you're saying she can't truly love him because she doesn't know him.

Edited my post with response.

I think, because of the nature of his current relationship with tifa, real cloud(meaning the cloud after the lifestream) loves tifa for quotes saying of the intimacy of their hearts and how well they know each other, i dont think he ever evolded into that stage with aerith, and he was a puppe when he had his experiances with aerith. besides reunion files state cloud only feels the upmost guilt over aerith`s death, not guilt over loving tifa, or moving on, or any indicator that he feels romantically for her.

 

[Quexinos]

Edited my post with response.

I think, because of the nature of his current relationship with tifa, real cloud(meaning the cloud after the lifestream) loves tifa for quotes saying of the intimacy of their hearts and how well they know each other, i dont think he ever evolded into that stage with aerith, and he was a puppe when he had his experiances with aerith. besides reunion files state cloud only feels the upmost guilt over aerith`s death, not guilt over loving tifa, or moving on, or any indicator that he feels romantically for her.

I think you're misunderstanding me dude First off, I agree that Cloti is canon, you are preaching to the choir, but you keep dancing around my question. I'm asking about AERITH'S FEELINGS! Aerith's, not Cloud's. Aerith's! Do you think AERITH'S feelings for Cloud are suspect or not all there or something? That's all I want to know, and if so, why?

 

[Baron Van Wolfen]

I think you're misunderstanding me dude First off, I agree that Cloti is canon, you are preaching to the choir, but you keep dancing around my question. I'm asking about AERITH'S FEELINGS! Aerith's, not Cloud's. Aerith's! Do you think AERITH'S feelings for Cloud are suspect or not all there or something? That's all I want to know, and if so, why?

You could have been more clear, dude >.>

No I dont think aerith`s love for cloud(at least the soldier one), is doubted, as sources such as maiden and case of lifestream state that she loves him. I would expect her love for the real cloud, to be at least somewhat doubtfull. As she never actually met him(all we have is a statement in maiden saying she is content on knowing that the al cloud is back), and he never actually opened up to her. If i were to look at the grand scheme of things, i would imagine she had a much deeper relation to zack, as seen in CC. So yes, i think aerith`s feelings are genuine, but they are up for debate on numerous points.

 

[Quexinos]

As she never actually met him(all we have is a statement in maiden saying she is content on knowing that the al cloud is back), and he never actually opened up to her.

... Cloud is what now? XD

I would expect her love for the real cloud, to be at least somewhat doubtfull.

Okay so let me ask you this then... when did Tifa fall for Cloud and were her feelings ever doubtful?

 

[The Witch]

Wait, you realize in Maiden she sees the "real" Cloud and still loves him more, right? So her love isn't doubtful for the real Cloud, not at all.

 

[Baron Van Wolfen]

... Cloud is what now? XD


Okay so let me ask you this then... when did Tifa fall for Cloud and were her feelings ever doubtful?

I meant the real cloud was back XD


Could you clarify your question a bit more?? There are numerous statemets of tifa`s feelings for cloud, especially regarding the highwind scene and lifestream sequence. I do believe aerith does love the real cloud but to me it seems a bit of a stretch that she goes from loving the zack/cloud/jenova soldier to the quiet and stoic cloud in a heartbeat, only by seeing his reconstruction in the lifestream.

 

[The Witch]

First of all, Cloud wasn't Zack like how you think he is. He shared some similarities, that's about it, though, man. So, Aerith falling in love with Cloud isn't a stretch either. :/

Especially since Aerith knew Cloud wasn't himself half the time.

 

[Fusionist]

*raises hand* Very random pipe up here.

Can someone explain to me what happened with the whole "koibito" thing? I remember it being mentioned the first time in respect to Cloud and Tifa and arguments for and against came up to it's, uh, legitimacy, I guess? But I skimmed over some pro Cloud/Aerith stuff recently where "koibito" is mentioned in respect to that pairing, so I don't get it. Does "koibito" count or not?

 

[Quexinos]

Could you clarify your question a bit more??

I want to know when you think when Tifa fell in love with Cloud and if there was ever a time when her feelings were doubtful.

On koibito:
It was used ones for CxT and once for CxA. It cancels out as far as I'm concerned Here's more information on it:
http://killthemongoose.com/ltd/?page_id=11

 

[The Witch]

basically, there's two sentences:

Tifa's Koibito Quote: "There are many dimensions to Tifa's character. She is like a mother, a KOIBITO, and a close ally in battle."



Aerith's Koibito Quote: "Cloud was the woman's(Aerith's) friend, her KOIBITO, a symbol of what was important to her, and someone to be protected."


I have now given you the two quotes, do with it as you will.

I don't really know the whole thing about the koibito bull, I wasn't around for that debate.

The way I see it, in Tifa's quote, it was officially translated as "sweetheart" which, to me, confirms SE didn't want it to mean "lover".

Aerith's quote, however, hasn't been translated officially, therefor we don't know what the exact definition of koibito is for Aerith's quote. It could very well supposed to be translated as "lover" but that's still not a official.

But as of now, neither Clotis or Clouriths can claim what "koibito" is supposed to mean in Aerith's sentence.

The other thing I look at to make a conclusion, is that Tifa's doesn't say she's a koibito to anyone, Aerith's, however, says Cloud is her koibito.

Which, determines a heck of a lot, if you ask me.

 

[Quexinos]

The way I see it, in Tifa's quote, it was officially translated as "sweetheart" which, to me, confirms SE didn't want it to mean "lover".

They're synonyms Also in this case it doesn't mean "nice person"
Koibito does not have that meaning, it can't mean that.

The other thing I look at to make a conclusion, is that Tifa's doesn't say she's a koibito to anyone, Aerith's, however, says Cloud is her koibito.

So can we not determine who Tifa is a like a mother and an ally in battle to as well?

EDIT
HOLY HELL I HAVE REP POWER! YES!

 

[The Witch]

Yes, but if SE wanted it to say Tifa is Cloud's koibito, they really wouldn't have translated it as "sweetheart". And even though they're synonyms, they don't always have to mean the exact same thing.

Tifa can be a mother, she can be an alley, and she can be a sweetheart. To make this simple and quick, saying "we can't determine who she's an alley and mother to as well" doesn't really cut it.

We have obvious hints for mother, she's like a mother to Marlene and Denzel, and even Cloud. She's an Alley to everyone. But her being a sweetheart can be interpreted as linking to Cloud. But the truth is, that's only if someone views it that way. Doesn't mean it's it.

Look, back when I first heard of the koibito thing, I was trying to figure out how people got a sentence that said she's like a koibito without mentioning Cloud, to mean she's Cloud's koibito.

I seriously had a "WH---AT?" 0__o moment when I saw Clotis claiming that quote says Tifa is Cloud's koibito. I even reread it quite a few times to try and figure out where it says she's Cloud's koibito. But no matter how many times I read it, it stayed the same. Cloud's name was never mentioned. Therefor, she isn't Cloud's koibito. She could be a koibito to anyone, or, it could be that she's just a sweetheart like SE translated it as.

I mean, c'mon, man. If they were together, they wouldn't have separate rooms. :/

The fact of the matter is, Cloud's name isn't mentioned. If they wanted the koibito definition to be that of "lover" in reference to Cloud, they would have mentioned Cloud's name. Like they did with Aerith's.

 

[Quexinos]

We have obvious hints for mother, she's like a mother to Marlene and Denzel, and even Cloud. She's an Alley to everyone. But her being a sweetheart can be interpreted as linking to Cloud. But the truth is, that's only if someone views it that way. Doesn't mean it's it.

Actually you just brought up an interesting point.. she's like a mother to Cloud... she's an ally to Cloud as well... so it could be possible she's all 3 to Cloud.

Look, back when I first heard of the koibito thing, I was trying to figure out how people got a sentence that said she's like a koibito without mentioning Cloud, to mean she's Cloud's koibito.

She's gotta be someone's koibito

She could be a koibito to anyone, or, it could be that she's just a sweetheart

But koibito doesn't have that meaning... and if it did, how do you know the one in CoLW isn't saying Cloud's just a sweetheart to Aerith? As in, nice to her?

I mean, c'mon, man. If they were together, they wouldn't have separate rooms. :/

Rob and I have separate rooms
Maybe Cloud snores

The fact of the matter is, Cloud's name isn't mentioned. If they wanted the koibito definition to be that of "lover" in reference to Cloud, they would have mentioned Cloud's name. Like they did with Aerith's.

Yeah I get that, I just don't think it's that ambiguous is all.

 

[The Witch]

Actually you just brought up an interesting point.. she's like a mother to Cloud... she's an ally to Cloud as well... so it could be possible she's all 3 to Cloud.

lol, I guess you can try and argue that. But then someone can turn around and say, so she's a mother and a lover to Cloud? That's kinda creepy. :/

She's gotta be someone's koibito

OR, she's just a sweetheart, like my mother calls me. :3 I know the Japanese word doesn't have that meaning(I don't really know that for sure, but I'll take your word on it), but the fact of the matter is, SE translated it exactly how they wanted it. As sweetheart.

But koibito doesn't have that meaning... and if it did, how do you know the one in CoLW isn't saying Cloud's just a sweetheart to Aerith? As in, nice to her?

Who's saying it can't mean that? :/

Rob and I have separate rooms
Maybe Cloud snores

But Cloud and Tifa supposedly had sex and confessed their love.

Yeah I get that, I just don't think it's that ambiguous is all.

You're right, it's not... but only if the person views it that way.

And when I first saw that koibito thing, I had just finished playing FFVII, watched AC, and had little knowledge that there was even an LTD to begin with, I can tell you right now--I did not link Cloud's name to that, that's for sure.


EDIT: Uh-hu, zeh channizard is lurking *takes out pokeball*

 

[Quexinos]

lol, I guess you can try and argue that. But then someone can turn around and say, so she's a mother and a lover to Cloud? That's kinda creepy. :/

She's like a mother... tbh whenever Rob gets sick or hurt.. I feel this need to mother him until he's better XD It's kinda like that.

OR, she's just a sweetheart, like my mother calls me. :3 I know the Japanese word doesn't have that meaning(I don't really know that for sure, but I'll take your word on it), but the fact of the matter is, SE translated it exactly how they wanted it. As sweetheart.

You're giving koibito an entirely new meaning that doesn't exist by doing that. You can't just redefine a word because you don't like its meaning. Sweetheart also holds the definition of lover. That's what they mean by sweetheart. It's saying she's a sweetheart to someone.

It would be like me saying "Well the English meaning of mother can also be religious so it could be saying Tifa is very religious!"... see what I mean?

Who's saying it can't mean that? :/

Erm... Steve?

But Cloud and Tifa supposedly had sex and confessed their love.

This is getting personal... but so did me and Rob... like I said we don't share a room for a few reasons... but I'm not here to talk about my personal life.

And when I first saw that koibito thing, I had just finished playing FFVII, watched AC, and had little knowledge that there was even an LTD to begin with, I can tell you right now--I did not link Cloud's name to that, that's for sure.

Good times, good times.

 

[The Witch]

She's like a mother... tbh whenever Rob gets sick or hurt.. I feel this need to mother him until he's better XD It's kinda like that.

But, that's never a trait someone lists when they speak of their lover, now is it? "Mothering" is different from saying "she's a mother, an alley, and a koibito"

You're giving koibito an entirely new meaning that doesn't exist by doing that. You can't just redefine a word because you don't like its meaning. Sweetheart also holds the definition of lover. That's what they mean by sweetheart. It's saying she's a sweetheart to someone.

It would be like me saying "Well the English meaning of mother can also be religious so it could be saying Tifa is very religious!"... see what I mean?

Okay, my sister is a HUGE Bleach fan, I bring this up because there's a similar situation of the usage of koibito with one of the Bleach characters.

Her name, Orihime, it was in an interview about her character. In that interview, the fan asked him about Orihime and Kubo, the writer, said that "Orihime is a sweetheart isn't she?"--the word used was koibito. And I can tell you right now, Orihime has never been the lover(or girlfriend)of anyone. Also, people call Gackt Japan's sweetheart, so the definition doesn't just mean lover/girlfriend, it can, but there's other usage.

With that in mind, plus the fact that SE translated it as sweetheart and not "lover"--I'm still going to have to say that it was saying she's just a sweetheart, not to anyone(lack of a name), she's just... a sweetheart.

Honestly, there'd be nothing to argue against if Cloud's name was in that sentence, but it isn't.

Good times, good times.

No, it really wasn't.

 

[Quexinos]

But, that's never a trait someone lists when they speak of their lover, now is it? "Mothering" is different from saying "she's a mother, an alley, and a koibito"

Okay it says she's LIKE a mother. In other words, she's not actually one, but she has the traits of one I'd say.

Okay, my sister is a HUGE Bleach fan, I bring this up because there's a similar situation of the usage of koibito with one of the Bleach characters.

Her name, Orihime, it was in an interview about her character. In that interview, the fan asked him about Orihime and Kubo, the writer, said that "Orihime is a sweetheart isn't she?"--the word used was koibito. And I can tell you right now, Orihime has never been the lover(or girlfriend)of anyone.

I don't suppose you have that interview handy? It's not that I don't believe you, but I'd LOVE to post this information on TLS to see how they react to this

Also, people call Gackt Japan's sweetheart, so the definition doesn't just mean lover/girlfriend, it can, but there's other usage.

Lol, no dude. That title was giving to a man who wrote Japanese love songs that would "woo" the audience and all of Japan loved him and the girls loved him romantically. So that one is about romance

No, it really wasn't.

Sure it was... hell you and I weren't even there for the shitstorm koibito caused, so now we can both just point and laugh at everyone.

 

[The Witch]

Okay it says she's LIKE a mother. In other words, she's not actually one, but she has the traits of one I'd say.

I remember you arguing that the Japanese sentence doesn't have "like"

I don't suppose you have that interview handy? It's not that I don't believe you, but I'd LOVE to post this information on TLS to see how they react to this

I'm gettin' it for you now. Gimme a while.

Lol, no dude. That title was giving to a man who wrote Japanese love songs that would "woo" the audience and all of Japan loved him and the girls loved him romantically. So that one is about romance

No, he's called Japan's koibito. I was a Gackt fan,

Sure it was... hell you and I weren't even there for the shitstorm koibito caused, so now we can both just point and laugh at everyone.

This... this is true.

*points and laughs*

 

[Quexinos]

I remember you arguing that the Japanese sentence doesn't have "like"

It does for mother, not for the other two
She's like a mother, she's a sweetheart and she's an ally in battle.

I'm gettin' it for you now. Gimme a while.

Good cause I've already been told by several people that that interview never happened.

No, he's called Japan's koibito. I was a Gackt fan,

Source by chance?

 

[Starships]

I like Cloud x Tifa. Because... I don't want to sound mean to Cloud x Aerith supporters. But kind of feel like Cloud needs to move on from the past and not let the past be on his shoulders anymore, and Aerith is sadly apart of the past. I don't know how else to explain it, but it's like Locke and Rachel from FF6. Rachel was Locke's pride and joy and the most precious thing to him, but sadly she died, but Rachel was always, always on Locke's mind. But Locke needed to move on, because he'll always have the past on his shoulders and that would make him physically sick, and think that Locke was already kind of ill because of the love that he lost. He just couldn't let Rachel go.

Plus Cloud and Tifa seems like the patient and the doctor and that's kind of sexy. But I don't want to sound mean to the Cleriths. Don't shoot me. I come in peace. :stressedpanda:

I kind of view ACC/ AC as Cloud letting go of the past and Aerith. That's why he travels around the flower fields on the motorbike because it's like he's saying goodbye to the past that was the original FF VII game. However whenever I play FF VII I always try and get the Cloud x Aerith date, because it's gives a chance for them to say goodbye and have a close moment together, before 'jerk-a-roth'( Sephiroth ) breaks Cloud's heart. I think if Aerith stayed alive though, I'll still support Cloti because of the moment before Cloud goes crazy and gets mind- controlled by Tifa, he seems to really care about Tifa and while he gives everybody else small apologizes, he gives Tifa a special apology, like he really cared about her, and Cloud can be a huge jerk sometimes. But yeah, this is just a opinion. .... A opinion with huge fail.