Cloud's personality

[Morrigan]

***SPOILER Alert***

For those who have played and finished the game I have some questions to ask.

Well,now that I've re-started playing the game I've noticed that Cloud isn't Cloud.Meaning,at times you get to hear his subconcious,if I'm not wrong,the real Cloud who is still hiding in the real memories of Cloud.
So I was wondering,then who is it in the beginning cause despite having memories from Zack the personality certainly isn't it his.
To me it feels as if he resembles Sephiroth at first and that's what I'd like to discuss.Could it be cause he is the only clone of Sephiroth that has survived that we get to see a part of Sephiroth showing in Cloud.

Hope this gets discussed.
​

 

[Davey Gaga]

It's because he creates a hybrid persona using Zack's experiences and achievements with his own (unaccomplished) desires so as not to be deemed a failure by Tifa when he reunites with her in Midgar.

Zack says to Cloud (when they are on the man's truck) that he will become a Mercenary - Cloud, while not able to speak, presumably understood this. Combined with being told to "live for the both of us" he obviously found it very easy to slip his name in to Zack's life and live it out as his own.

 

[Morrigan]

It's because he creates a hybrid persona using Zack's experiences and achievements with his own (unaccomplished) desires so as not to be deemed a failure by Tifa when he reunites with her in Midgar.

Zack says to Cloud (when they are on the man's truck) that he will become a Mercenary - Cloud, while not able to speak, presumably understood this. Combined with being told to "live for the both of us" he obviously found it very easy to slip his name in to Zack's life and live it out as his own.

This I already know,but the personality Cloud has at the beginning of the game,distant and uncaring,is nothing like Zack's or his.It reminds more of Sephiroth,that's why I came up with this.

 

[Ohri-Jin]

As Riku has mentioned CLoud is a hybrid (Himself & Zack). I never thought Cloud would resemble anything of Seph. So Im curious where you got that idea from.

 

[Martel]

My initial thought was "wait, what personality?", but I won't go there...other than saying it, anyway.

But, anyways, have you played Crisis Core? That shows why Cloud's...mental state at the beginning of the game is so...well, y'know. Cloud is like the worst sort of fanboy: he emulates his idol, but he does an absolutely terrible job of it. Everything he goes through is all him, he's just trying to convince himself otherwise. I'd hate to be his therapist.

At no point have I ever thought he resembles Sephiroth, though...after all, Sephiroth is an insane killing machine in VII who flew off the handle due to a misunderstanding.

 

[The Witch]

This I already know,but the personality Cloud has at the beginning of the game,distant and uncaring,is nothing like Zack's or his.It reminds more of Sephiroth,that's why I came up with this.

Allow me, that distant and cold persona is Cloud's actual real personality. If you recall correctly, when he was a child he acted the same way--mean to other kids and very distant. The Jenova cells do, however, mix with Zack's occupational legacy-his position as First Class soldier, becoming a Mercenary-but he doesn't take on the personality of anyone.

Due to the influence of the Jenova cells implanted in his body he acted out a false persona, but with the support of his friends he regains his true self and grows as a person. (FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania, Cloud's profile)

This statement says nothing about Cloud becoming an entirely different person. He just acted out a false persona (the definition of "persona" being "the mask or facade presented to satisfy the demands of the situation or the environment and not representing the inner personality of the individual") But Cloud's true personality was there the whole time.

Cloud imitated Zack's personality. Cloud was merely acting out a false personality--like a mask to hide behind.

As you know, Cloud acts nothing like Zack. Cloud only imitates Zack's cocky attitude as a First Class SOLDIER and even learns some of Zack's moves and gestures. But, that is where the similarities end. Cloud is cold and condescending toward others, just like he was when he was a kid.

"The origin of the saying "not interested".
In the scene when the young Cloud explains his mental state by saying, "I used to think people around me were foolish", surprisingly, he shows the posture of shrugging his shoulders.
If we consider this, the part of his coolness that keeps him away from the surroundings and the part of his asserting "not interested" all have nothing to do with the influence of Jenova cells, They belong to the real Cloud's personality. (FFVII Ultimania Omega, p. 180)

That beginning personality, the cold distant person you see, is really who Cloud is. That's what's said after the Lifestream event;

"After developing his personality by using Zack, who has cheerful characteristics, his memory as the base, Cloud still remained the part of coolness." (FFVII Ultimania Omega, p. 180)

In other words, even though Cloud used some of Zack's personality as a basis for his new persona, Cloud's true character and personality show through in his "coolness" and the fact that he isn't cheerful like Zack.

The cold and Distant persona you're associating with Sephiroth, is Cloud's true personality. It's not Zacks, it's not Sephiroths-- but it's his own true persona.

So, that distant and cold personality you see Cloud with is literally Cloud's true self.

Also, that's why Cloud continues that cold, distant personality in other games like Tactics, Dissidia, KH & KHII.

Hope that helps you, mate.

 

[Alak]

Here's my take. This game was made before Crisis Core, Advent Children, etc. As far as we knew, the cold, uncaring, cocky persona was indeed Zack Fair. Only after the other stuff came, did we begin to see a more light-hearted Zack who's optimistic and compassionate. That was a failure on Square-Enix's part to maintain consistency with character personalities. You can say I'm wrong, but look at how drastically Cloud changed from FFVII to Kingdom Hearts and Advent Children. SE has never been good with storyline consistency. This thread is just another example of it.

 

[Akamaru]

Here's my take. This game was made before Crisis Core, Advent Children, etc. As far as we knew, the cold, uncaring, cocky persona was indeed Zack Fair. Only after the other stuff came, did we begin to see a more light-hearted Zack who's optimistic and compassionate. That was a failure on Square-Enix's part to maintain consistency with character personalities. You can say I'm wrong, but look at how drastically Cloud changed from FFVII to Kingdom Hearts and Advent Children. SE has never been good with storyline consistency. This thread is just another example of it.

Quoted for truth, somewhat. Another example of how the spin-offs came to ruin the consistency that was originally intended and present in all games up until Final Fantasy XII (where not even the protagonist has a reason to be playable at all).

However, I don't really think the cocky, cold, uncaring personality was Zack's. Let's not forget that before Cloud came along, Aerith not only fell in love with Zack, she also stated quite clearly that he was her boyfriend. I don't think that would have worked out so well if Zack was indeed as cold as Cloud starts out to be.

I don't actually think there's a specific reason as to why he is the way he is at the beginning of the game simply because you may be misinterpreting it. As it is hard to tell whether someone Online is trollin', it also is quite hard to understand exactly what characters in a undubbed game sound like.
Cold does not equal uncaring, and as far as the storyline goes, I think what you perceive as "what Cloud is" may just be completely wrong.

Like I said in another thread about the spin-offs, you'll be considering the latter, dubbed Cloud, because it's more fresh in your memory. But whether you remember it, or not, the original was right there, at the start of the game. THAT is Cloud. What you think is Cloud is nothing but a result of events that happen in the game.

In all, with all due respect with all the Final Fantasy VII Ultimania mumbo, the Sephiroth/Jenova Cells/Zack Fair theories, my opinion is that THAT is simply Cloud. Period. He may have become less uptight, but that happens with TIME. Such as what happens to pretty much ALL THE PROTAGONISTS IN THE FINAL FANTASY FRANCHISE.
And do not forget that the Cloud you see in Crisis Core IS NOT THE ORIGINAL CLOUD. Even if it is chronologically before Final Fantasy VII, it was made afterward, inconsistently and incompetently.

 

[The Witch]

Here's my take. This game was made before Crisis Core, Advent Children, etc. As far as we knew, the cold, uncaring, cocky persona was indeed Zack Fair. Only after the other stuff came, did we begin to see a more light-hearted Zack who's optimistic and compassionate. That was a failure on Square-Enix's part to maintain consistency with character personalities. You can say I'm wrong, but look at how drastically Cloud changed from FFVII to Kingdom Hearts and Advent Children. SE has never been good with storyline consistency. This thread is just another example of it.

Wait--what? Since the beginning of the game(FFVII)Cloud was ALWAYS cold, distant, and an asshole to people.

Cloud: "I used to think... they were all stupid."

Cloud: "You were all childish, laughing at every little stupid thing."

Cloud: "I got out of control... I'd get into fights not even caring who
it was." - Lifestream Event


See, he was always cold and distant. Zack was nice to Cloud--he befriended Cloud, he was a ladies man, that's not a cold, distant person.
Cloud was always starting fights with people, and was always rude and distant.

So no, he was never(even before the game)supposed to be Zack's personality. Cloud was always his own, just took some similarities from Zack's occupational legacy, but that's it.

Even in the earlier games like Tactics and Kingdom Hearts I, Cloud was exactly the same way--cold and distant. And even after he finds out his true past, he's still cold and distant to people, even his friends. That cold and distant personality has always been painted as Cloud's and it will always be Cloud's true personality.

I think what you're getting mixed up with is how Cloud gradually became kinder after he met Aerith. But, obviously he was made into a slightly better man than he was before.

Conclusion, Cloud has always been a cold and distant person.

 

[Morrigan]

Allow me, that distant and cold persona is Cloud's actual real personality. If you recall correctly, when he was a child he acted the same way--mean to other kids and very distant. The Jenova cells do, however, mix with Zack's occupational legacy-his position as First Class soldier, becoming a Mercenary-but he doesn't take on the personality of anyone.

Due to the influence of the Jenova cells implanted in his body he acted out a false persona, but with the support of his friends he regains his true self and grows as a person. (FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania, Cloud's profile)

This statement says nothing about Cloud becoming an entirely different person. He just acted out a false persona (the definition of "persona" being "the mask or facade presented to satisfy the demands of the situation or the environment and not representing the inner personality of the individual") But Cloud's true personality was there the whole time.

Cloud imitated Zack's personality. Cloud was merely acting out a false personality--like a mask to hide behind.

As you know, Cloud acts nothing like Zack. Cloud only imitates Zack's cocky attitude as a First Class SOLDIER and even learns some of Zack's moves and gestures. But, that is where the similarities end. Cloud is cold and condescending toward others, just like he was when he was a kid.

"The origin of the saying "not interested".
In the scene when the young Cloud explains his mental state by saying, "I used to think people around me were foolish", surprisingly, he shows the posture of shrugging his shoulders.
If we consider this, the part of his coolness that keeps him away from the surroundings and the part of his asserting "not interested" all have nothing to do with the influence of Jenova cells, They belong to the real Cloud's personality. (FFVII Ultimania Omega, p. 180)

That beginning personality, the cold distant person you see, is really who Cloud is. That's what's said after the Lifestream event;

"After developing his personality by using Zack, who has cheerful characteristics, his memory as the base, Cloud still remained the part of coolness." (FFVII Ultimania Omega, p. 180)

In other words, even though Cloud used some of Zack's personality as a basis for his new persona, Cloud's true character and personality show through in his "coolness" and the fact that he isn't cheerful like Zack.

The cold and Distant persona you're associating with Sephiroth, is Cloud's true personality. It's not Zacks, it's not Sephiroths-- but it's his own true persona.

So, that distant and cold personality you see Cloud with is literally Cloud's true self.

Also, that's why Cloud continues that cold, distant personality in other games like Tactics, Dissidia, KH & KHII.

Hope that helps you, mate.

Yeah,I agree with you.It seems that I rushed to come up with my own conclusion of course I have other things that I don't really agree with and I'm gonna point out in the post.

Here's my take. This game was made before Crisis Core, Advent Children, etc. As far as we knew, the cold, uncaring, cocky persona was indeed Zack Fair. Only after the other stuff came, did we begin to see a more light-hearted Zack who's optimistic and compassionate. That was a failure on Square-Enix's part to maintain consistency with character personalities. You can say I'm wrong, but look at how drastically Cloud changed from FFVII to Kingdom Hearts and Advent Children. SE has never been good with storyline consistency. This thread is just another example of it.

I'm gonna agree here as well as FFVII was made before of all those games.And when those spin-offs were made I doubt it was the same team who made the original so mistakes are always done,especially after such a long time although I believe that SE purpose was actually to promote other new character (Zack,Genesis,Angeal)

Wait--what? Since the beginning of the game(FFVII)Cloud was ALWAYS cold, distant, and an asshole to people.

Cloud: "I used to think... they were all stupid."

Cloud: "You were all childish, laughing at every little stupid thing."

Cloud: "I got out of control... I'd get into fights not even caring who
it was." - Lifestream Event


See, he was always cold and distant. Zack was nice to Cloud--he befriended Cloud, he was a ladies man, that's not a cold, distant person.
Cloud was always starting fights with people, and was always rude and distant.

So no, he was never(even before the game)supposed to be Zack's personality. Cloud was always his own, just took some similarities from Zack's occupational legacy, but that's it.

Even in the earlier games like Tactics and Kingdom Hearts I, Cloud was exactly the same way--cold and distant. And even after he finds out his true past, he's still cold and distant to people, even his friends. That cold and distant personality has always been painted as Cloud's and it will always be Cloud's true personality.

I think what you're getting mixed up with is how Cloud gradually became kinder after he met Aerith. But, obviously he was made into a slightly better man than he was before.

Conclusion, Cloud has always been a cold and distant person.

From what I see now Cloud is that way.Except for maybe when he starts to grow into a nicer person over time.The mistake AC did was ignore Cloud's growth just as KH did.KH also talks about Cloud's state BEFORE beating Sephiroth,before he himself awakens,so it again the Cloud at the begining of FFVII(the cold,distant one).
You say that Cloud was always like that,but when you're in the Lifestream searching for his true self I don't see the child Cloud being that way.I only see a child jealousness towards other people who happen to NOT be alone.If he was naturally so uncaring and cold I doubt he'd ever try to approach Tife or even go after her in that mountain.
If you were to say that it's the image he projects I'd agree but from what the events show,deep inside Cloud isn't as cold and uncaring as we make him to be.He seems more like an introvert,that yes.

 

[The Witch]

From what I see now Cloud is that way.Except for maybe when he starts to grow into a nicer person over time.The mistake AC did was ignore Cloud's growth just as KH did.KH also talks about Cloud's state BEFORE beating Sephiroth,before he himself awakens,so it again the Cloud at the begining of FFVII(the cold,distant one).
You say that Cloud was always like that,but when you're in the Lifestream searching for his true self I don't see the child Cloud being that way.I only see a child jealousness towards other people who happen to NOT be alone.If he was naturally so uncaring and cold I doubt he'd ever try to approach Tife or even go after her in that mountain.
If you were to say that it's the image he projects I'd agree but from what the events show,deep inside Cloud isn't as cold and uncaring as we make him to be.He seems more like an introvert,that yes.

Well said. Well said, indeed.

Yes, it's true Cloud obviously isn't as cold and uncaring as he usually is. For his friends he's kind and actually cares for them. But towards others(people he doesn't know)he's quite the ass. Remember what he said to Biggs and Wedge?

Throughout the game Cloud says snarky remarks to people--that much is true. So in a way, he is cold and uncaring. It's just to his friends, he's a bit more kind. For example, when he first met Yuffie, Cloud was cold to her telling her he didn't care about her life story but when Aerith died, Cloud and Yuffie share a hug--showing kindness and emotion.

But in the beginning of the game, Cloud didn't care about how people felt or what was going to happen to the planet. All he cared for was his money--which are attributes of a cold and uncaring person.

Then, as he made friends he all of a sudden developed a side of him that showed concern for the planet and the people around him--attributes of a kind person.

So Cloud is a cold, uncaring person, he's just slightly different around the people he cares about. Which is only natural.

 

[Alak]

Yeah, maybe he's just that introverted guy who only forms attachments to those he trusts (which isn't a lot of people). Remember in the space ship when Cid got stuck under the debris and Cloud said "I never leave my friends behind!" or something along those line? That's the Cloud I tend to remember. I guess it's hard to exactly pinpoint what someone's personality is (fictional or otherwise). He can be cold and compassionate at the same time. I still think his attitude during the first bombing run was heavily influenced by Zack, but seeing how he picked a lot of fights during his childhood, maybe his aggressive nature was really genuine.

 

[The Witch]

Yeah, maybe he's just that introverted guy who only forms attachments to those he trusts (which isn't a lot of people). Remember in the space ship when Cid got stuck under the debris and Cloud said "I never leave my friends behind!" or something along those line? That's the Cloud I tend to remember. I guess it's hard to exactly pinpoint what someone's personality is (fictional or otherwise). He can be cold and compassionate at the same time. I still think his attitude during the first bombing run was heavily influenced by Zack, but seeing how he picked a lot of fights during his childhood, maybe his aggressive nature was really genuine.

Yea, but, how was that beginning attitude like Zack's? I don't see a resemblance at all.

 

[Alak]

Depends on which Zack you're comparing with? The one in the game (who we know nothing about other than Cloud being his imitation) or the one portrayed in the OVA nearly a decade after the game was made?

 

[The Witch]

Depends on which Zack you're comparing with? The one in the game (who we know nothing about other than Cloud being his imitation) or the one portrayed in the OVA nearly a decade after the game was made?

For craps and giggles, both.

If you go by the original game, Zack is still painted as a nicer guy. What cold, uncaring person befriends some nobody kid and tries to get a job for the both of them? What cold, uncaring person takes a happy photo with two other people?

Cloud, however, doesn't befriend anyone easily, nor does he act as happy as Zack was portrayed in the game.

A cold, uncaring person wasn't who Zack was.

 

[Puma379]

Acutally Clouds Personallty was always there although he was Living Zacks Memrioes and Life doesnt Nesserially Mean his Personality was the same Jenova Cells Made him sumwhat Like Septh Same thing Sumwhat Like septh Not Like his Perosnallity sum think he was Like Zack due to the Fact He got Nicer and More Open well that was Only due to the fact that, His Personality changed from Cold to Warm and Nice when Playing throught out the Story Line and Meeting all his friends they all Got drawn Closer and thats How it was Cloud in no Way was Ever Using the Personality of Zack he was Changing His as The Game went on&on

 

[The Witch]

Acutally Clouds Personallty was always there although he was Living Zacks Memrioes and Life doesnt Nesserially Mean his Personality was the same Jenova Cells Made him sumwhat Like Septh Same thing Sumwhat Like septh Not Like his Perosnallity sum think he was Like Zack due to the Fact He got Nicer and More Open well that was Only due to the fact that, His Personality changed from Cold to Warm and Nice when Playing throught out the Story Line and Meeting all his friends they all Got drawn Closer and thats How it was Cloud in no Way was Ever Using the Personality of Zack he was Changing His as The Game went on&on

Yea, exactly. Cloud wasn't taking the personality of ANYONE he took Zack's legacy 'cause, well lets be honest, Cloud felt like his sucked.

 

[Puma379]

Yes, and He Took his Own Personality and As he got friends and People Depended on him and All he Lost that feeling that he was a Loner By the mid 2nd disc to the end he Found out he was Somthing Big with his Self and He was Living Zacks Life but by the end of His Misson he was Way More then Zack More Powerful, he Found Out although he was a Puppet so-called and all he Got stronger then Septh and Zack

 

[The Witch]

Yes, and He Took his Own Personality and As he got friends and People Depended on him and All he Lost that feeling that he was a Loner By the mid 2nd disc to the end he Found out he was Somthing Big with his Self and He was Living Zacks Life but by the end of His Misson he was Way More then Zack More Powerful, he Found Out although he was a Puppet so-called and all he Got stronger then Septh and Zack

Yes.

So, do we all understand that Cloud never had the personality of anyone else? And that he was actually acting out his own personality just hiding behind a false legacy?

 

[Puma379]

I Belive So i think i Explained it Well enough for Noone to DisAgree with me lol