Do bad people deserve second chances?

If they are not bad people, why would it even be necessary to jail or execute them? There is nothing wrong with them, they just made some poor choices, correct? All you need to do is persuade them to make better choices with their lives.


On the other hand, if you execute them, are you not saying that they are not worthy of living? That they no longer have the right to live?

If you jail them, are you not saying that they are unworthy of freedom, and also unworthy of the second chances spoken of earlier in these threads?

If there's nothing inherently wrong or bad about these individuals, why would such consequences even be necessary? By enacting them, are you not sending the message that these people are in some way, shape or form defective?
 
Second chances? No. Why would someone need a second chance?
If someone screwed me over without thinking about the consequences, I would do anything to distance myself from them. You have to be really stupid to make a mistake big enough to piss me off. REALLY stupid.

All this nonsense about giving ex boyfriend and girlfriends second chances? No way! If I'm not the best thing they've ever experienced, then they can go find someone who meets their criteria.
In all honesty, if I was dating someone, I would want them to confront me and say "hey...I like this other girl" before doing something ridiculous behind my back...

The same thing goes for friends and family. Blood being thicker than water is a stupid saying made up by a stupid person. Family and friends...are just as likely to screw you over as someone you barely even know. It has nothing to do with how close you are, or that you grew up together...It's about character, honesty, and tustworthyness.

I don't "lose" trust in certain people, I simply throw it out the window.
 
Nephany said:
Second chances? No. Why would someone need a second chance?
If someone screwed me over without thinking about the consequences, I would do anything to distance myself from them. You have to be really stupid to make a mistake big enough to piss me off. REALLY stupid.

All this nonsense about giving ex boyfriend and girlfriends second chances? No way! If I'm not the best thing they've ever experienced, then they can go find someone who meets their criteria.
In all honesty, if I was dating someone, I would want them to confront me and say "hey...I like this other girl" before doing something ridiculous behind my back...

The same thing goes for friends and family. Blood being thicker than water is a stupid saying made up by a stupid person. Family and friends...are just as likely to screw you over as someone you barely even know. It has nothing to do with how close you are, or that you grew up together...It's about character, honesty, and tustworthyness.

I don't "lose" trust in certain people, I simply throw it out the window.
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Out of curiousity, did you read the initial post in this thread that clarified the topic at hand, or any other posts in this thread before you decided to chime in, or just the title?
 
I just read the title. You caught me. Naow butt out.
And I don't think people deserve second chances, as I clearly stated in my last post.
 
In the eyes of other people, most people are divided into "good" and "bad" by their actions. If people like what this person did, they are considered "good". If people dislike what this person did, they are considered "bad".

However, there is no such thing as black-and-white good-and-bad scenario. The world is very gray, my friends.

Say, you have one guy who went and killed another. The man he just killed had killed people as well. Does that make him a good person? His hands are still stained with the blood of his victim. For those who liked the killer, they would assume that this action was good. For those who liked the apparent victim, they would assume that this action was bad. How do you sort out what is actually good and what is actually bad? Sure, the victim killed some people making him a murderer, but would the man who killed him be able to get away with his single case of murder? It is the same crime, whether that person committed it previously or not.

Now when it comes to rape, the person who did the raping should have some form of punishment to prevent them from doing it anymore. If male, they should be rendered useless to 'perform'. If female...well, I'm not entirely sure, to be frank. But still. Forcing someone into intercourse is not something that is forgivable.


...I can't come up with any other examples at the moment, but feel free to argue with/against what I have typed. I do not guarantee that it makes sense. o_O
 
Didn't americans hang Saddamn Hussein?
Doesn't anyone consider that to be bad?
It's like fighting fire with fire; the most that should have been done in a situation like that is life imprissonment...
 
good is but a matter of opinion. we are victims of circumstance and media. because we are told so and so did this and that they are bad but there are always two sides to a story is wat i am trying to put foward. wouldnt you like a second chance sometimes?
 
A second chance is a thing given to children to help them learn that what they had done was not a good thing to do. If these children grow up and still do not know that stealing is bad, killing their fellow man is bad, raping those of opposite/same sex is bad, etc...then there was obviously something wrong with their developmental years. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. If they haven't learned right and wrong and morals by the time they are grown men and women, they still don't deserve a second chance. No one does, in my opinion.
 
If they are not bad people, why would it even be necessary to jail or execute them?
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Because their actions have infringed upon the right of others to live.

There is nothing wrong with them, they just made some poor choices, correct?
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I don't recall saying that. Most people who commit crimes such as these have a mental infirmity.

All you need to do is persuade them to make better choices with their lives.
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I'm going out on a limb here, but I think it goes beyond mere "persuasion". :confused:

On the other hand, if you execute them, are you not saying that they are not worthy of living? That they no longer have the right to live?
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Correct, which in turn (for a person who murdered) is the same thing that was deemed "wrong" to begin with.

If you jail them, are you not saying that they are unworthy of freedom, and also unworthy of the second chances spoken of earlier in these threads?
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Of the former (freedom) not necessarily. We are only free to a certain extent. Were we truly "free" a person could kill a person & that be that. We are not free to kill others. Of the latter (second chances) that would be a no. Jail, in a sense, is all about second chances. Hell, you can earn a college degree while you're in jail in the hopes that once you're out you can become a productive member of society.

If there's nothing inherently wrong or bad about these individuals, why would such consequences even be necessary?
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I answered this earlier in the post.

By enacting them, are you not sending the message that these people are in some way, shape or form defective?
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Not a defect per se. But in this way, everyone is "defective" in some form or fashion - be it physical or mental.


I will not discuss issues of a metaphysical nature further - it's pointless, as there is nothing to prove. Discussing abstract concepts & ideas can be fairly entertaining, but there is no inherent value in the discussion. Now, if something concrete can be produced, I'll be happy to continue.
 
Nephany said:
Didn't americans hang Saddamn Hussein?
Doesn't anyone consider that to be bad?
It's like fighting fire with fire; the most that should have been done in a situation like that is life imprissonment...
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no it was the iraqis who hung him.

i think a guy like that had it to easy, although i agree with the death penalty i think for all he has done to humanity executing him was to humane, he deserved to rot in a small cell for the rest of his days. Sometimes when i think about it executing them is the friendly option, maybe there in pain for a small while but then its over, they dont have to live with what theyve done they're free from their crimes.
And executions work out well for the goverment, its just another empty cell to them, a place where they can throw the next ''bad person''
 
But you know it's not necessarily the government who houses all of those convicts. It comes from citizen's tax money. =\
 
I agree with giving those who killed a rapist who raped there girlfriend or wife. Or those who killed a murderer who killed a family member or a loved one.

Maybe they can get just 9 months in prison, but its not like theyre gonna be hated by people like me anyway
 
^ There you go. Think about where some of our tax money go to. In a sense, are we really helping these criminals get an education, giving them food to eat three times a day, make their living situations better - and all because they're in prison and obviously committed crimes. And by crimes, I mean cold-hearted murders, rapes, cannibalisms - along those degree. However, if it's such a small crime, then the jail should do.

But criminals who have committed heinous crimes...that I cannot tolerate or forgive. Imagine one of your loved ones as the victims...how would you feel about it? Yes, I am saying that I am not against the death penalty. I used to be, but my views changed when the situation involved me and my loved ones. Everything changes then.

There's criminals that pleads innocent, for they claim that they are not right in the head, so that should be an enough excuse to not face the death penalty. And these people actually gets away with it. That's not right at all...

Now, take Jeffery Dahmer, for instance. His crimes dealt with sodomy, necrophilia, dismemberment, and cannibalism. Victims: Many...boys included. Children...

Then there's one (forgot his name) who kidnapped women, chained their feet, electrocuted them all at once (due to the chains, as they were all connected) and forced them to have sex with each other. Then he killed one woman, cooked her, and fed her remains to the others...who didn't know that what they had for dinner was one of their companions. He told them afterwards though...

How can we give people like that a second chance? I say that they should face death because life has nothing in store for them here on earth anymore. They are only tainting this world more with their mere presence...I cannot abide with such actions and have someone tell me that they're only human and people make mistakes. So why not a second chance?

No, I believe that everyone has a sense of ethics and morals buried somewhere deep inside them, even if just a little. (Or at least, know the difference between right and wrong, generally speaking.) But whether they choose to follow it or not is their choice. And with a wrong choice, comes the consequences and they must face it.

EDIT: One more thing...(just in case there's some rebuttal) I'm aware that there were cases where people faced the death penalty and they found out later that the person was actually innocent. It's a terrible fate for them, yes...and I do feel sorry for the people who had to take the consequences not meant for them.

Well, a solution to that now is to prolong the sentence (but not too long) until they are sure that the victim is really guilty. I trust the technologies that we have now and hope that they catch those bastards.

I know some of you may not agree with me, and that's fine. We are, after all, debating here. But I am speaking from experience and so that explains my hatred towards such people. Sometimes emotions is what changes other's views about something, and it has worked for me. Not saying that I'm trying to convince anyone in what I believe in, but merely explaining why I think this way about the topic.

 
A very understandable and safe post Mitsuki. But put the shoe on the other foot. What if one of your family members, Uncle, Brother, Father ect... Got drunk and angry one night and killed someone. Whether it be accident or intentional being that you do care for them would you still feel that death penelty should be imposed? And what if it wasn't the first time?


Some people are truly sick in the head. Like those already mentioned Dahamer, Sadam ect.. Those kinds of people cause a threat to peoples life. They basically get what they deserve. But what about the people who are generally nice but by circumstances end up killing or beating someone half to death. For example a guy walks in his house of completly sound mind.. his wife is gettin it from another man. He goes off and pounds the guy to death. What should the punishment be? Does he deserve a second chance (and alot of counseling)? And what about the women? Should she be punished for breaking the contract of marriage or better yet causing the death of the man she was sleeping with?

Now when it comes to rape and crimes against children I don't care how much I value someone.. Brother, family memeber ect.. They should get severe punishment in my eyes. I have no tolerence for such. There will never be a good reason for these types of crimes. The only thing about rape is one word against another which causes doubt. And sets many guilty people free. I hate that.
 
That's a very good point, Sever Off, and to answer your question...there's a difference between accidental and self defense murders to pre-meditated murders. That is why I stated previously that it depends on the degree of crime.

Now, if one of my loved ones happen to commit a pre-meditated murder, then yes, I would still feel that he or she deserves the death penalty, no matter how hard it will be for us. Easier said than done? Perhaps, but I will not side with evil for the sake of a loved one, no matter how cruel that may sound.

But that is why it is very important to teach your children and any of your love ones that killing is wrong and there will be severe punishment.

Now, I don't know about the scenario you gave dealing with infidelity. If the guy happened to kill the other guy due to blinding hatred and the circumstances at hand, then that's a tough choice. I honestly wouldn't know what to do with the situation either...all I know is that I'm against those who impose cruel intentions to others.
 
Ever read the story Billy Budd? ;)
He was executed for killing someone not deliberately, but actually quite rightfully, but was only convicted because the captain {Captain Vere} felt that duty superseded his emotion for the sailor.
I only brought that up because your post, Mitsuki, reminded me of it.

Now that I think about it more, the fact that killing a loved one is not only a hard thing for the family, but if the crime was severe enough, I'd swing over to the prosecution...but only if the crime was deliberate and with malice involved.
If not, then the court has no right to execute him in my opinion.
 
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