Does FF Lack a sense of resources?

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Razberry Knight said:
again...most of what you're describing isn't "lack of" anything that you could possibly define as a resource. you're only describing how other game mechanics that can be defined as resources make them others more useless.


but like i said "lack of" and "not necessary" are two different things. and you have yet to establish in each example what the resource for each one is, and how it becomes "lacking". only that the game makes it so its easier.
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I don't think you seem to understand what I mean by resource. Spoony got it right, your resources consist of all your mightiest abilities, but you can use them as many times as you want (other than summons in FFX, which was a great system). Using your ultimate skills without limitation is indeed a lack in a sense of resource because it makes the idea of conserving your abilities and mixing them up for different enemies just pointless. Something "not needed" is the same as a lack in resources, because as I said, dirt is a resource here on earth, we walk on it, dig it up, move it, and buy it, but has it ever felt like a resource? Not to me. How about taking what I mentioned in this post

Captain Squee said:
Any of you also feel that Final Fantasy just lets you unleash all your abilities without enough limitation? I like it to feel like I'm not god, it gives me a better sense of conflict, a better sense of achievement.
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and instead of trying to argue with me on something when I know what I'm talking about, you do as this thread was intended? How about you tell me how you felt about the resources instead of "You're wrong because bananas" because we clearly have different views and this thread was intended to share opinions, not fight amongst one another? I won't reply again to nonsense, this will get me in trouble (again :wacky: ) I'm just pointing out an opinion, and I don't know if you realize this, but opinions can't be wrong. They're opinions.
 
again.....those exist within the game. the problem is that you're saying that it "lacks resources". but its more about the game not putting enough stakes to use them to feel that they are there.

you explained how in ff7 had the mime materia that can help use limit break attacks. but thats not saying that the game lacks limit breaks, just helps replace it.






the problem is you're saying it "lacks" a certain quantity of what we both define as resources. the problem isn't the deifnition of "resources" its that you're claiming the game "lacks it" when every example you brought up, didn't exactly "prove" that it was lacking, only that the game made it easier.


I know you know what you're talking about...but i dont think you know you're conveying it properly.
 
Lacks a SENSE of resource. Says it in the title. Alas, you have yet to do as this thread was intended.
 
even then we know that potions, ethers, and elixirs are "resources" that we can get if we choose to. (and yes, you tried to shoot down ethers)

the lack of "sense" of resources isn't completely accurate either. the bigger problem is that the game doesn't put the stakes to make the resources that necessary. but lack of "sense" of resources is making it believe that resources don't "exist' at all, despite being there.

but thats clearly not the case. And most times for FF, it depends on how things work. for example: the ff7 mime example. instead of filing up the gauge you get it automatically. but mime consumes other resources just like any other materia.

if you're skilled and stock up. thats fine....


but the issues you provided weren't really again making lack of sense of resources, because it shows you are aware of them. and although dirt isn't a resource, in a game, if dirt were something that can benefit the player, then its established.
 
If the case was "clearly" not what it is, why would anyone disagree? It would be clear, would it not?

How about this. Provide examples. All your posts consist of "You're wrong because I say so"

Instead, tell me WHY I'm wrong.

Or do as this thread was intended.

Captain Squee said:
Any of you also feel that Final Fantasy just lets you unleash all your abilities without enough limitation? I like it to feel like I'm not god, it gives me a better sense of conflict, a better sense of achievement.
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you dont really explain it yourself either....

i have been giving you examples thoroughly.

FF7's "mime" materia replaces the limit gague...but its not like you dont use other resources to use the Mime command at all.

FF8 junction system is the same.

FF9 again, you still really didn't choose to clarify it at all. instead chose to give ff1 as an example. which you admit has resources but not all are completely viable (which you wouldn't have known on your first playthrough).

you reference dirt as a reference but we dont really need dirt,hence it doesn't feel like a resource. problem with that analogy is that we never used any "dirt" ever in an FF game (figuratively speaking).


lets call the resources such potions, ethers, elixirs, and gil we've had in ff1-6 "dirt" and unlike the in your analogy that never really had an established benefit for us with "dirt", this particular one does when it comes to FF. But the examples of FF7 and beyond you're claiming that it seems the game makes it lack "sense" of dirt (resources). but in reality, that's because the game is adding new mechanics and new alternatives to it that are also viable resources. we'll this "mud".

"mud" uses different resources making the games lacking the sense of the "original" resources.


FF7's mime materia doesn't use the limit gauge system, but it still "consuming" something as its being used. Same with the other systems afterward. the only one i agree with is ff10, but thats more about the game making it so you can avoid using the resources.
 
Screw it I am going to go ahead and make a post here. Though while not FF, I am gonna use an example from Legend of Dragoon with it's mp system which can be implied to be similar to FF7's materia system. Now before we delve into the mp system we need to take a look at it's inventory system which is only 32 items. Not a whole lot when dealing with your healing potions, magic potions, attack items, and status recovery. This is both mechanic and resource, you need to learn item management. Now onto the mp, there is only three ways to recover mp in this game, your mp recovery items, rock fire flies or staying at an inn. Let's look again at the items, you hardly get any mp recovery items until late game. So if you rely on your mp and use items to replenish your mp you are gonna get screwed as there is no reliable way to get them as drops. You cannot buy them in stores. Staying at an inn is costly as getting gold in this game is a little hard given the very little you get in battles, and as for rock fireflies they are few and in between.

Now we go to the materia system in FF7, with it's mp. It's the same thing management wise as a resource but a hell of a lot easier which there is no sense of it. While ethers are hard to come by in the beginning, the amount of towns you can rest at or ease to get to them is laughable, not to mention the cost of staying at one is cheap compared to how much gil you can get in fights. You can also buy tents if you don't want to rest at towns making backtracking even less, this again diminishes a sense of resource with how easy it is to come by. You can just easily heal and not worry about it, there is no sense what so ever of needing to manage anything. The game itself just gives it to you so there is no sense of needing to be careful of when you use your mp. This itself is a lack of resource. Everything is just easy and without much limitation, you don't need to be careful at all how you manage anything.
 
I think what he's saying is that if there is no reason to even try to manage the resources, that it feels like there's no limitation...because there isn't. Thus reducing the sense of resources. This proving both our points.
 
Captain Squee said:
I think what he's saying is that if there is no reason to even try to manage the resources, that it feels like there's no limitation...because there isn't. Thus reducing the sense of resources. This proving both our points.
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Exactly, there is no real limitation. If there is no sense of "management" to said resource it doesn't even become one. It just becomes another aspect. It's so damn plentiful and easy to restock, that it lacks the sense of a resource. A resource should be something that has a sense of "management" and a cause for worry, it should be something not so easy to refill. As much as against the grain here it goes, I will use FF8's draw system which as much as I like can be a convoluted mess. When you draw the magic for your stats it then becomes a worrisome resource, cause if you use it your stats will lower. However with how easy it is to draw and come across magic then for said stat it loses it's sense as a resource since it's just there. A resource is meant to place limitations on you, not just be out there and easy to exploit.
 
in a game...maybe...but the fact that they are consumable, does mean that the game uses them as such. its jsut that the game doesn't raise the stakes. and i dont really agree its the mechanics faults except for FF10. that one i feel could've been refined.

but the thing is we are stlil "consuming" said resources. do they come more often they need to manage? maybe...but we're still consuming the resources.

so long as resources are being consumed, they are still "resources".
 
This isn't a question of whether or not the resources are there :ffs: That would be one stupid debate.
 
Again, new resources are added in the game. and yes, the game makes it so you get them easier, but there is still a level of managing, just not to the point of it being crazy difficult.

the lack of "sense" of resources depends on what other resources are there and what are you actually trying to consume and gain back. sometimes these things feel like second nature.
 
they aren't one liners. and you don't put any effort at all.

i've given you proof before. its just a matter of looking back at what example i'm referencing at. but i'm not going to play games just because you want something you know you already got.

if you're not consuming MP to use magic to heal, you must either be consuming potions or ethers to do it. especially within dungeons where there ar less save points. its not that hard to present you an example, so i dont know why you keep asking for one i'm sure you know exist.

grinding would either lead you to use up your cottages or use up gil to save at an inn. for ff7, and beyond new elements are added that consume the same things, MP and sometimes AP. but as you progress through the games, you get better options. mime materia is only one option, it doesn't matter how many cure materia you get either. it wont be useful having a whole set of cure materia being used in a boss. sure you heal, but you can't exploit much weaknesses.


no more claiming i make one liners for someone who planned to spam the same definition only to stress the word "sense" then "resources".
 
So I am going get this kinda back on topic.

I can see how it feels like some resources can be over used in a way, and get abused. I mean for an example like in FFVII all your characters are able to equip summons and magic and let us face it, most of the characters get so much magic that you can abuse it to a point that you don't need to use ethers later in the game, cause all you have to do is be able to get to a save point or the world map and use a tent (and that isn't very hard since save points are all over the place usually.)

At the same time there are things that could be considered "useless" cause of either how late you get them in the games or just their usefulness overall... like for an example a lot of FFVIII "magics" I never used minus for maybe "junctioning" them onto a character just to boost their hp/attack/whatever for a short time until I got the better magic.

But I guess in most rpgs you can find a way to over use and abuse a system, it comes down to how you want to play it I guess.

There is my 10 cents :elmo: keep the change!
 
Less one liners more explanation. Enough of the "not playing games", it's the number one excuse of not having anything. I pput in effort, there's actually a few responses with context, yours consist of me being stupid because I'm wrong because you disagree.

Give me explanations and some real context or I can't take you seriously.

I agree completely with Bender. You are given plenty, but there's really no need for it, much of it is overall useless, and if not, then easy to use over and over again. In VIII draw system there was the option to cast instead of drawing, and in the final fight you could easily just spam apocalypse without cost by using then draw system.
 
stop claiming everything is a one liner. i've given you explanations in the past. and no...you absolutely, have not given effort. in fact, you have been trolling your way in an effortless way about it. i mean you quoted the definition "twice" as if that was going to make any difference. and that shows, you don't really care what i have to say even if you believe i'm currenlty not on point.


and Bender actually words it "differently" than you. instead of saying theres a sence of lack of resources, he's saying resources an be overused. which doesn't change the sense of it being a resource, it just makes it have a surplus. but i also agree its how one plays the game.

my reasoning is tangent to benders, that its not that the game makes it lack the sense of resources "existing" just lack of them being "needed". and your examples, thoughout this entire discussion never point out what specific resource you didn't feel like it was. so i'm asking what exactly that is.
 
...Resources lose value in surplus. They become unnecessary, obsolete. DIRT for example, there's tons of it. Hundreds of tons of dirt. Your posts most certainly have been one liners, but if you fail to see this, surely you can agree they are not paragraphs. Assuming I'm trolling my way through this thread is just an absurd statement, all I've been asking is for an explanation and you've been refusing to give me one. All i want is to understand your angle other than it being centered on disagreeing with me. WHY do you disagree with me? What made them not feel like they were to be reserved? How did you handle it? What were the problems that came with it? Did you feel like you had to save something for a boss fight?

All I want is to know your angle so I can take you serious, but you have refused and refused to provide me with the information.
 
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