Does FF Lack a sense of resources?

[Shaissa]

Well depending on the game... I will talk about a few games...

In FFX for an example, since save points heal you and your summons, and they were before every boss fight (and everywhere before a cut scene basically ) I almost never ever used any potions or anything unless it was just for someone to do something so they can level up.

and then in FFIV and FFIX (where characters had a set job and could only use certain abilities) I used a lot more potions and other things cause (depending on where you are in the game) the most is maybe 2 characters at a time can heal and you, so I ended up using a lot more potions to survive fights and stuff.

Then you have games like FFVI, VII, VIII, and XII where you could have anyone be a magic user or an attack user. In FFVI it just depended on what Espers you had them equipped, same thing in FFVII only with Materia.

In FFVIII like I said perviously most of the magic I only had for a short time just to Junction it until I got something better.

Then FFXII it came down to how you had characters set up in the Gambit system, but I did end up using a lot of items early in the game and didn't really stop using them until much later...

But as far as "saving" items and things, the only ones I ever saved were elixers...and I actually almost never used them at all ...

 

[Razberry Knight]

...Resources lose value in surplus. They become unnecessary, obsolete. DIRT for example, there's tons of it. Hundreds of tons of dirt. Your posts most certainly have been one liners, but if you fail to see this, surely you can agree they are not paragraphs. Assuming I'm trolling my way through this thread is just an absurd statement, all I've been asking is for an explanation and you've been refusing to give me one. All i want is to understand your angle other than it being centered on disagreeing with me. WHY do you disagree with me? What made them not feel like they were to be reserved? How did you handle it? What were the problems that came with it? Did you feel like you had to save something for a boss fight?

All I want is to know your angle so I can take you serious, but you have refused and refused to provide me with the information.

the problem is you never really given my comment a chance to begin with. so why would i do anything just for your sake? its just belittling. and you know it.


their not paragraphs. but their not "one-liners" either. one liners are one sentence. one phrase and thats it. and i have no in fact i continuously referenced FF7 and FF8's points that you brought up. ff9 i still dont understand, you still dont clarify, and ff10 is the one and only one i get because in that game, rather than needing or ever wanting to use an item, its much more simpler to switch party members mid-battle. that one i do understand the sense of lack of resources, because unlike ff7's mime system and ff8's junction system, ff10's party swapping doesn't provide a new resource to consume. it just provides more characters. granted in a continuous battle, that would affect them in the long run but only if you're inexperienced player.

but ff7's mime materia offers a lot of resources, and although you claim that they lose value, they don't really. a potion wont suddenly heal "less" just because you're getting more. been though you still have to equip the potions too.

Would you think less of them? maybe...but not to the point that you forget their resources. monsters drop ratio usually is something you once needed in the past too. i fought many monsters in ff7, 8 and 9 only for them to drop a ppotion when i already outgrew potions. in my experience, i never really end up using potions, ethers, or any of those in any ff game once i start gathering momentum, but once i get past midway, bosses get more intersting and dungeons get longer. i end up using my potions to optimize my cure spells for when i need them in boss. and this happened to me in ff7- and beyond.

but like i said...i'm not seeing the lack of "sense" of resources. just lack of "value".

 

[Captain Squee]

the problem is you never really given my comment a chance to begin with. so why would i do anything just for your sake? its just belittling. and you know it.


their not paragraphs. but their not "one-liners" either. one liners are one sentence. one phrase and thats it. and i have no in fact i continuously referenced FF7 and FF8's points that you brought up. ff9 i still dont understand, you still dont clarify, and ff10 is the one and only one i get because in that game, rather than needing or ever wanting to use an item, its much more simpler to switch party members mid-battle. that one i do understand the sense of lack of resources, because unlike ff7's mime system and ff8's junction system, ff10's party swapping doesn't provide a new resource to consume. it just provides more characters. granted in a continuous battle, that would affect them in the long run but only if you're inexperienced player.

but ff7's mime materia offers a lot of resources, and although you claim that they lose value, they don't really. a potion wont suddenly heal "less" just because you're getting more. been though you still have to equip the potions too.

Would you think less of them? maybe...but not to the point that you forget their resources. monsters drop ratio usually is something you once needed in the past too. i fought many monsters in ff7, 8 and 9 only for them to drop a ppotion when i already outgrew potions. in my experience, i never really end up using potions, ethers, or any of those in any ff game once i start gathering momentum, but once i get past midway, bosses get more intersting and dungeons get longer. i end up using my potions to optimize my cure spells for when i need them in boss. and this happened to me in ff7- and beyond.

but like i said...i'm not seeing the lack of "sense" of resources. just lack of "value".

I give them chances, then I analyze them, then I critique them according to the information provided and my experience with said situation and/or event.If you find it belittling, it's not my fault.

(^ That is a one liner in my book.)

The rest of the post is riddled with so many typing and grammar errors that I simply cannot understand it at all. First off, they're is the proper word you're looking for. "And I have no in fact I" - What does that mean?

Looking past the rest, I'll respond to what I can understand...

You keep mentioning Mime, but I said on my second post that was just one example, I then provided another, I get it, Mime is invalid, I've agreed to that point already. No, a potion won't heal less, but it's easy to get 99. It doesn't feel like a limited resource once you get that many, it stops being "Well I could use this, but if I do, I can't later when I need it more, perhaps I should save it for the boss" and becomes more of a "lol I'll just use a potion." That makes it feel less like a resource to me and becomes more of a granted recovery without limitation. This makes the value of saving your resources very minimal, which overall diminishes the sense of it being a resource and more of an item that never runs out. It is indeed still a resource, yes, but what value does it carry for the game? It means your resource is always going to be Get low HP - Potion. Resource in this context following the definition in this post: http://www.finalfantasyforums.net/t...of-resources?p=1086183&viewfull=1#post1086183

I'm not saying FF lacks in the ability to use items, you can use anything you have at your disposal, I'm saying that is the issue. I feel unlimited, so my resource consists of belting out strongest attacks consecutively. Your usable resources on the way to the boss? All your strongest attacks. Your resources when you get to the boss? All your strongest attacks. Your resources on the way back from the boss? All your strongest attacks. Your resources when grinding for levels? All your strongest attacks. The best RPGs make you save your resources, they give them a value. They make it feel like you shouldn't use them until you desperately need them. Being able to infinitely cast all the best skills because you have Ethers is just ludicrous for difficulties. A lack in value is not the concern when considering that there is no value at all as a resource. A resource with less value means you will always be using it when you can. And that's the problem.

Again, using this definition of resource http://www.finalfantasyforums.net/t...of-resources?p=1086183&viewfull=1#post1086183

As you get stronger, and as you get more and more powerful spells and/or summons, you use them constantly because they are so powerful, but there is also no need at all to save them.

Lastly for the record, this is not a belittling post, this is me stating why I feel the way I do. If you feel I am "not giving your comment a chance" I don't know what to say to you, because I can easily be swayed by a comment that has an argument I can agree with. I think the issue here is the difficulty understanding that resource doesn't mean having things at your disposal, for if that were the case, I would be dead wrong due to the extreme variety in spells, skills, and items one can have and use in each game.

 

[Razberry Knight]

You keep mentioning Mime, but I said on my second post that was just one example, I then provided another, I get it, Mime is invalid, I've agreed to that point already.

you don't really bring out another issue ff7 have thats a real one. you only brought up that you get a load of cure materias (which is like if you got a number of steel swords, you only need one per party member that can use it but carrying more wont do anyone any good).

No, a potion won't heal less, but it's easy to get 99.[t doesn't feel like a limited resource once you get that many, it stops being "Well I could use this, but if I do, I can't later when I need it more, perhaps I should save it for the boss" and becomes more of a "lol I'll just use a potion."

because they slowly become less "helpful". then you upgrade from Hi-potion or X/mega potion (depending on the game)

That makes it feel less like a resource to me and becomes more of a granted recovery without limitation. This makes the value of saving your resources very minimal, which overall diminishes the sense of it being a resource and more of an item that never runs out. It is indeed still a resource, yes, but what value does it carry for the game? It means your resource is always going to be Get low HP - Potion. Resource in this context following the definition in this post: http://www.finalfantasyforums.net/t...of-resources?p=1086183&viewfull=1#post1086183

What FF does is what most JRPGs already do, is make the old obsolete items easier to gain while the more efficient items necessary.

I'm not saying FF lacks in the ability to use items, you can use anything you have at your disposal, I'm saying that is the issue. I feel unlimited, so my resource consists of belting out strongest attacks consecutively. Your usable resources on the way to the boss? All your strongest attacks. Your resources when you get to the boss? All your strongest attacks. Your resources on the way back from the boss? All your strongest attacks. Your resources when grinding for levels? All your strongest attacks. The best RPGs make you save your resources, they give them a value. They make it feel like you shouldn't use them until you desperately need them. Being able to infinitely cast all the best skills because you have Ethers is just ludicrous for difficulties. A lack in value is not the concern when considering that there is no value at all as a resource. A resource with less value means you will always be using it when you can. And that's the problem.

Again, using this definition of resource http://www.finalfantasyforums.net/t...of-resources?p=1086183&viewfull=1#post1086183

this is where the trolling begins. Because, now you're changing the point of your topic by not lacking resources to use, but resources to help defeat a boss or to grind. which would be any attack. those so-called "resources" wouldn't necessarily be a hang-up from the point of this thread. just a moment ago, you were in-sync with what i was talking about with potions and ethers. but now you're brinign a whole different point about "attacks" being resources.

But the definition of a resource wont help you if you suddenly change the perspective. i'm still in-line with the definition. but thats like trying to place the definition "principal" in FF and if we reach different things that we define as that, you're going to assume someone doesn't know the definition. when i reality, there is more than one or more than one perspective.

Lastly for the record, this is not a belittling post, this is me stating why I feel the way I do. If you feel I am "not giving your comment a chance" I don't know what to say to you, because I can easily be swayed by a comment that has an argument I can agree with.

not helping your case...you're basically saying "i can be swayed by whom i agree with". but thats not saying much at all. you're just saying you choose who you agree and choose who to be swayed.

I think the issue here is the difficulty understanding that resource doesn't mean having things at your disposal, for if that were the case, I would be dead wrong due to the extreme variety in spells, skills, and items one can have and use in each game.

resource does apply to it nonetheless. and this is where you're inconsistent.

highlight the definition of resource AND apply it to the persective you want us to see it.

OR

highlight the word "sense" in the phrase "lack of sense of resources".

but don't bring both points at once. because their both focused on two different things. the first is trying to let others know what you personally considered a resource. the second is highlighting that regardless of resources existing, the FF games make it so that they really aren't much of value to (which you did bring up and did tried to make a point about).

so this is where you're inconsistent.

 

[Captain Squee]

I give up. Pretty sure you're the one trolling, here, as I have tried, and I have remained consistent, and I tell the truth. You, on the other hand, for the first half of this thread have refused to supply information upon request until a mod said no more one liners. I did agree that you get an abundance of potions, I've agreed with it from the start, I have also stated this being the problem. Enough of you playing victim, the clear troll here is you and this will be my last post to feed you. Good day.

 

[Soulcorruptor]

Sigh here we go again


The thread title here in question is called "Does FF Lack a sense of resources". Not does FF lack resources, once again a "SENSE" of resource. We have all agreed here that a potion is a resource now here is where we differ. You keep saying we think potions are not a resource. This is not the case at all, we acknowledge this as a resource. However the case is the ease at getting them and how much in abundance they are.With no real penalty or limitations to use them, not to mention the sheer amount you can hold, they don't feel like once.This here diminishes it as a "SENSE", once again a "SENSE", it doesn't feel like a resource. So please get on topic here. Stop saying the resources are just there, that isn't the topic of the thread. We are not even arguing that resources are there, we are arguing the fact there is a lack is "SENSE" of the resource.

So please stop saying that there are resources and they just get upgraded, that is not the point of this discussion. It is the "SENSE" of there being one, and as we tried pointing out politely before when you can just have 99 of them and spam them without worry and easily replace them, it diminishes the "SENSE" of it being a resource. Please provide examples to counter this instead of saying "you are wrong and the potion is a resource."

 

[Razberry Knight]

Sigh here we go again


The thread title here in question is called "Does FF Lack a sense of resources". Not does FF lack resources, once again a "SENSE" of resource. We have all agreed here that a potion is a resource now here is where we differ. You keep saying we think potions are not a resource. This is not the case at all, we acknowledge this as a resource. However the case is the ease at getting them and how much in abundance they are.With no real penalty or limitations to use them, not to mention the sheer amount you can hold, they don't feel like once.This here diminishes it as a "SENSE", once again a "SENSE", it doesn't feel like a resource. So please get on topic here. Stop saying the resources are just there, that isn't the topic of the thread. We are not even arguing that resources are there, we are arguing the fact there is a lack is "SENSE" of the resource.

So please stop saying that there are resources and they just get upgraded, that is not the point of this discussion. It is the "SENSE" of there being one, and as we tried pointing out politely before when you can just have 99 of them and spam them without worry and easily replace them, it diminishes the "SENSE" of it being a resource. Please provide examples to counter this instead of saying "you are wrong and the potion is a resource."

they still exist, but the real question is what is a resource, but what ISN'T or what makes it not one, to believe it is so.

keep in mind, most games make games "resources".

i still believe the "sense" of resources, so long as that i'm "consuming" them. and every counter argument so far to this is that you gain more than actually find. but again i counter-argue that that's because we're doing various methods to obtain them, such as fighting monsters.

so...you can say all that....Captain Squee still changed the perspective of "resources" completely. so either A or B, but not both. that's all i ask. get mad all you want.

 

[Ilyena]

*Closing thread at the request of the OP.*