Dough For Enix

[Rockman X]

In the end, I think the SE bashers are just fooling themselves into believing that SE was a company that it's not, a company that would have never changed, would never adapt to stay alive.

Why, praytell, are you calling them SE? You're making it sound like it was a single entity back then.

Sorry, but unless I have completely missed something no one is particularly bothered at the fact that they are re-releasing some of the older games because in all fairness it does give some of the younger fans to play them. "(at least they're finally making some 3D and with voice acting)"

Bingo. I'm all for re-releasing games...well, so long as they actually ADD stuff to them. For a good while it was just port after port with 18 bit sprites being upgraded to 32 bit sprites. I'm glad they're finally giving them full treatments. The point I have trying to make, which Onceman and Lord Varys both seemed to miss, is that the remakes are the BEST games SE has come out with. They can't think of anything as good on their own.

Everyone wants to see more of the characters and story, however, why should people buy a series of games just to make sure that they know about the whole story that could have been covered in the main and first game released? Or, take X-2 for example, that could single handedly be the most hated FF game (bar XI) purely because it didn't need to be made, there was absolutely no need to make a sequel to X because the ending of it tied everything up and they should have left it how it was.

Exactly, X-2 wasn't needed at all. X had a perfect ending that didn't need to be tampered with. VII had a great ending that left mystery and opportunity for speculation, AC took that away (plus had the most overused cliche ever, a dead villain returning). And now they're even making a sequel to IV. I don't mind sequels, but not when they're made to games that had already ended well, or when they intentionally LEAVE OUT parts of the story or LEAVE ROOM OPEN just so they can sell more games (KH sequels, Revenant Wings).

How do you bash over using the ideas again? There are plently of ideas that are used: battles systems, number of characters you are allowed to use, moogles, chocobos...the list is endless. However, you make a game good and nobody cares where the inspiration comes from, but when SE made XII half finished and lacking in almost everything then don't you think questions should be asked? Take 300 (the film), everyone could have bashed it over being like LoTR but it was seen as a great film so no one cared less.

Plus, the Star Wars references in XII were a bit too obvious to be merely inspired.

Ashe = Princess Leia
Balthier = Han Solo
Saving Ashe on the Leviathan = Saving Princess Leia on the first Death Star
Bahamut = second Death Star, complete with uber laser beam of doom

SE is a business and it is a business that does not solely rely on 're-releasing' games to bring in revenue. They have films, manga, merchandise and OTHER FRANCHISES that can make them a huge amount of money. FFAC is purely 100% money grabbing, why on earth did they release a film when the 'complete' version is being released 2 years after the first release of the film? What are ALL 3000+ employees actually doing anyway?

Again, good point Varys seems to have forgotten about the very successful flagship for Enix, Dragon Quest. SE doesn't need to keep whoring FF when they have DQ and so much other stuff, it's just easy money for them.

To get straight to the point. Development of games were undoubtedly cheaper many years ago. Yet, whilst development has become more expensive so has the stuff they sell, it should be no different to many years ago. It costs them more so they sell if for more whilst their fans numbers have increased. Also because they will have more fans they will receive more money so games should, theoretically speaking, be getting better not worse.

Yep. They're not charging the price of IX for XIII. As their production costs increase, so will the cost they charge consumers. Also, there's always extra merchandise to herald new games (usually only Japan gets it though). And if you recall, SE has an online store as well. Their prices are ridiculous, and they just opened up a couple months ago to North America, which means even more money for them since our dollar is worth more than the yen.

I'm positive it costs them MUCH less than we pay to make most of those collectibles. Actually, I know it does. Those Play Arts collectibles are flimsy pieces of crap that cost more than they're worth. The stand I have for my Vincent won't even fit him, and his joints are so loose he can't even stand on his own. The paint job on his face isn't that good, and once in a store I even saw a Play Arts figure of Axel whose hair paint was actually chipping off INSIDE the box. If that's not extortion I don't know what is.

 

[Bambi]

I'm used to waiting a good solid 2 (or more) anticipation-filled years, saving up for the next installment to come out. And now...I don't have the funds to buy all of the constant FF releases.
Didn't the tactics remake and Revenant wings come out in the same season?

How many FFs have been released this year?

I'm absolutely flat broke from trying to buy everything, my mum got me a DS for Xmas so I could buy FF3 & Revenant Wings for it & I bought a PSP off a mate so I could get FFT-WoTL & Crisis Core when it eventually comes out over here.

It's seriously crippling my purse. In the space of one month Iv spent just over 100quid just so I can keep up xD

 

[Lord Varys]

DarkAngeal wrote:

Sorry, but unless I have completely missed something no one is particularly bothered at the fact that they are re-releasing some of the older games because in all fairness it does give some of the younger fans to play them. "(at least they're finally making some 3D and with voice acting)"

Sorry, but when people are accusing Square-Enix of being moneywhores it's quite obvious they have a problem.

Everyone wants to see more of the characters and story, however, why should people buy a series of games just to make sure that they know about the whole story that could have been covered in the main and first game released?

Um, people aren't buying a bunch of games just to know the whole story. You don't need to buy Crisis Core to know what happens in FFVII, you don't need to buy Dirge of Cerberus to know what happens in FFVII. FFVII does well enough on it's own. The sequels and prequels, which there is nothing wrong with, are there for those who want more of the characters and stories that focus on those characters.

Or, take X-2 for example, that could single handedly be the most hated FF game (bar XI) purely because it didn't need to be made, there was absolutely no need to make a sequel to X because the ending of it tied everything up and they should have left it how it was.

First off it's your opinion on whether or not you feel FFX-2 is the most hated FF game. Again, it's your opinion on whether or not it needed to be made or not, there are those out there that wanted a sequel to it; Square responded, SHAME on them for pleasing their fans. FFX's ending did tie up the main point of it's story, they stopped Sin. X-2 wasn't about Sin, it was about Yuna trying to find the truth behind spheres with a guy who looked remarkably like Tidus. And the fact that Square didn't make the 100% ending the only ending, meant they were leaving it up to the player on whether or not they wanted to see Tidus and Yuna back together.

How do you bash over using the ideas again? There are plently of ideas that are used: battles systems, number of characters you are allowed to use, moogles, chocobos...the list is endless. However, you make a game good and nobody cares where the inspiration comes from, but when SE made XII half finished and lacking in almost everything then don't you think questions should be asked?

Very simple....when people constantly jump on SE about including similar ideas found in another story like it's a bad thing. The problems around FFXII was because Yasumi Matsuno left halfway through it's development due to health reasons, SE did the best they could to tie up everything. I doubt that's a good enough reason, and people will still complain.

SE is a business and it is a business that does not solely rely on 're-releasing' games to bring in revenue.

I didn't say they were relying solely on 're-releasing' games. What I am saying is that there is nothing wrong by them doing so, as it seems there are some fans that think otherwise and are calling SE money whores for doing so.

Again, no one has bashed 're-releasing' games just the fact they are getting worse at making the main ones, ie, XII.

It's your opinion that they are getting worse at making new games. Of course, some fans could have such high standards now days due to the FF games they played earlier in the series that they expect each new FF game to be on the same level as the previous games, and if SE doesn't match that then the fans chalk it up as SE becoming worse, instead of looking to themselves as being the reason why they don't like the newer games coming.

Films are all about money, not trying different things. As a result of the movie bombing Square lost $123 million (£61.5 million), Absolutely no company could afford to lose that much money so the studio that shut down in Hawaii was Square's fault to begin with. At this point Enix had nothing to do with Square and in fact delayed the merger until several years later.

Not all films are about money, nice generalizing there. The movie bombing was because a lot of fans were expecting a movie based on one of the games, which is pretty much the only complaint I hear about the film. And, I didn't say Enix had anything to do with Square at that time.

For Ronin:

The point I have trying to make, which Onceman and Lord Varys both seemed to miss, is that the remakes are the BEST games SE has come out with. They can't think of anything as good on their own.

That's your opinion, nothing wrong with that. But you have come off as pretty critical of SE, is it because they don't make games that match your standard, or do you compare each new game in the series with the one before to see if the newer one goes above and beyond it's predecessor?

Exactly, X-2 wasn't needed at all. X had a perfect ending that didn't need to be tampered with. VII had a great ending that left mystery and opportunity for speculation, AC took that away (plus had the most overused cliche ever, a dead villain returning). And now they're even making a sequel to IV. I don't mind sequels, but not when they're made to games that had already ended well, or when they intentionally LEAVE OUT parts of the story or LEAVE ROOM OPEN just so they can sell more games (KH sequels, Revenant Wings).

Not everyone dislikes X-2, people wanted a sequel to it and SE......should I say SS since X-2 came out before the merger? answered. I don't look at X-2 and say that it ruined the ending to X, because I view them as separate, even though they are related; kind of think like Evolution as how a species can just branch off and go it's own way.

For FFVII, the ending you speak, with Midgar covered in vegetation, that can still happen; it happend 500 years after the events of FFVII.

Plus, the Star Wars references in XII were a bit too obvious to be merely inspired.

Ashe = Princess Leia
Balthier = Han Solo
Saving Ashe on the Leviathan = Saving Princess Leia on the first Death Star
Bahamut = second Death Star, complete with uber laser beam of doom

Come now, you can have characters, and situations like that and still be inspired. Besides, they totally left out Ashe in a slave outfit.

Varys seems to have forgotten about the very successful flagship for Enix, Dragon Quest. SE doesn't need to keep whoring FF when they have DQ and so much other stuff, it's just easy money for them.

I have not forgotten that Enix pretty much publishes DQ, while Level-5 develops under Enix's supervision. SE doesn't have a good reason to stop making FF though, millions of people still like them; just like millions of people still like Mario and how Nintendo has sold over 200 million games featuring Mario since he came out on the Super Famicom.

I can tell by there are going to be points that we will probably agree to disagree on (Angeal included), I'm not looking at getting involved with a multiple page debate here, just wanted to share my opinion.

 

[Rockman X]

Sorry, but when people are accusing Square-Enix of being moneywhores it's quite obvious they have a problem.

Orly nao? You seem to have ignored all obvious evidence presented here.

Um, people aren't buying a bunch of games just to know the whole story. You don't need to buy Crisis Core to know what happens in FFVII, you don't need to buy Dirge of Cerberus to know what happens in FFVII. FFVII does well enough on it's own. The sequels and prequels, which there is nothing wrong with, are there for those who want more of the characters and stories that focus on those characters.

Riiiiight. And that's why SE felt the need to put Gackt in Dirge of Cerberus and Crisis Core. It's called fanservice, it was nothing more than a marketing ploy. Not to mention sequels aren't always a good thing. Remember Toy Story 2? Remember Lion King 2, or more recently, Lion King 1/2? Or perhaps Spider Man 3? Things have a tendency to reach a pinnacle, when this happens they shouldn't be touched. And if they are, great care should be taken so as to do justice to the original.

First off it's your opinion on whether or not you feel FFX-2 is the most hated FF game.

Actually it's more than an opinion. It is the most hated FF game, just try looking at fans' responses to it across multiple boards, etc. Yes, there ARE people who like X-2, but you'll find that the number of FF fans who dislike it and have been disappointed by it outweighs those who like it, or those who have disliked other FFs.

The problems around FFXII was because Yasumi Matsuno left halfway through it's development due to health reasons, SE did the best they could to tie up everything. I doubt that's a good enough reason, and people will still complain.

IMO they should have postponed it, rather than trying to rush it out. Fans don't like delays, but they dislike it even more when a game feels halfassed. People are generally very happy when they finally get their hands on a game that was worth the wait.

And, I didn't say Enix had anything to do with Square at that time.

You keep referring to the old Square as SE though.

But you have come off as pretty critical of SE,

Noe wai!

or do you compare each new game in the series with the one before to see if the newer one goes above and beyond it's predecessor?

As a matter of fact I do. People tend to do that with most everything.

I don't look at X-2 and say that it ruined the ending to X, because I view them as separate, even though they are related; kind of think like Evolution as how a species can just branch off and go it's own way.

How exactly is it possible to look at them as separate...? X-2 is a direct sequel with the same characters, there's no getting around that...if it had different main characters then yeah, but it didn't.

For FFVII, the ending you speak, with Midgar covered in vegetation, that can still happen; it happend 500 years after the events of FFVII.

Only it's SO much less likely, seeing as how, oh, there's no Geostigma to kill people...no terrorists...no lifestream + holy...

I have not forgotten that Enix pretty much publishes DQ, while Level-5 develops under Enix's supervision. SE doesn't have a good reason to stop making FF though, millions of people still like them; just like millions of people still like Mario and how Nintendo has sold over 200 million games featuring Mario since he came out on the Super Famicom.

Nobody ever said they should stop making FF. We'd just like to see some games of the same caliber as the old ones. And maybe a little less blatant fanservice.

 

[RioDragon]

DarkAngeal wrote:



Sorry, but when people are accusing Square-Enix of being moneywhores it's quite obvious they have a problem.

What problem...? The problem where people actually expect excellence out of what was once a great company that actually created POLISHED products once upon a time...?

Um, people aren't buying a bunch of games just to know the whole story. You don't need to buy Crisis Core to know what happens in FFVII, you don't need to buy Dirge of Cerberus to know what happens in FFVII. FFVII does well enough on it's own. The sequels and prequels, which there is nothing wrong with, are there for those who want more of the characters and stories that focus on those characters.

Yeah... Of course they don't have to buy a bunch of other games to understand VII. Y'know why...? Because SQUARESOFT made it when they cared about making a complete, presentable experience. SE gets money by making people THINK they missed something in VII by making prequels/sequels, thus deceiving their fans. How's that for being a nice, good company that only looks out for the fans, huh?

First off it's your opinion on whether or not you feel FFX-2 is the most hated FF game. Again, it's your opinion on whether or not it needed to be made or not, there are those out there that wanted a sequel to it; Square responded, SHAME on them for pleasing their fans. FFX's ending did tie up the main point of it's story, they stopped Sin. X-2 wasn't about Sin, it was about Yuna trying to find the truth behind spheres with a guy who looked remarkably like Tidus. And the fact that Square didn't make the 100% ending the only ending, meant they were leaving it up to the player on whether or not they wanted to see Tidus and Yuna back together.

That's also your opinion... Which is misinformed, I might add. By saying it is the most hated can also mean a general consensus, rather than JUST individual opinion, as you so misread. And yes... SHAME on them for ONCE AGAIN, making the fans feel they missed something in FFX by releasing a sequel, effectively deceiving the fans. How dare we expect a game of quality out of SE!

Very simple....when people constantly jump on SE about including similar ideas found in another story like it's a bad thing. The problems around FFXII was because Yasumi Matsuno left halfway through it's development due to health reasons, SE did the best they could to tie up everything. I doubt that's a good enough reason, and people will still complain.

Postpone it. Simple solution, straight to the point... If people care enough to gratify their fans with a COMPLETE and well-planned out product, they would wait for the man to get better and continue afterwards. After all... SE had a ton of other games out around then to generate revenue. DQVIII being just one.

I didn't say they were relying solely on 're-releasing' games. What I am saying is that there is nothing wrong by them doing so, as it seems there are some fans that think otherwise and are calling SE money whores for doing so.

Who called them money whores for just that...? That's just an additive... I love their remakes. It's just, that is ALL that I love out of SE... Well... That and 666 Satan, but they only publish that in Japan.

It's your opinion that they are getting worse at making new games. Of course, some fans could have such high standards now days due to the FF games they played earlier in the series that they expect each new FF game to be on the same level as the previous games, and if SE doesn't match that then the fans chalk it up as SE becoming worse, instead of looking to themselves as being the reason why they don't like the newer games coming.

Also your opinion if you insinuate that they are getting better... More power to you! You're one of a very few that do... Most of them under the age of 13, I don't doubt... And yes, I do chalk up the GAMES being worse as the COMPANY being worse. What else are we supposed to judge them by, their Final Fantasy energy drinks...?!?

Not all films are about money, nice generalizing there. The movie bombing was because a lot of fans were expecting a movie based on one of the games, which is pretty much the only complaint I hear about the film. And, I didn't say Enix had anything to do with Square at that time.

Frankly, I loved the movie, dispite it's disassociation with FInal Fantasy beyond the name. As for you not saying Square had anything to do with Enix at that time... You could've fooled me with all the SE-ism.

That's your opinion, nothing wrong with that. But you have come off as pretty critical of SE, is it because they don't make games that match your standard, or do you compare each new game in the series with the one before to see if the newer one goes above and beyond it's predecessor?

If you find nothing wrond with opinions, why do you try to change people's minds with your own and rubbish false facts?

Not everyone dislikes X-2, people wanted a sequel to it and SE......should I say SS since X-2 came out before the merger? answered. I don't look at X-2 and say that it ruined the ending to X, because I view them as separate, even though they are related; kind of think like Evolution as how a species can just branch off and go it's own way.

I know not everyone dislikes X-2. Honestly, I saw X-2 as an improvement over X with it's like of Tidus actually being in it. But, that's just my opinion.

Come now, you can have characters, and situations like that and still be inspired. Besides, they totally left out Ashe in a slave outfit.

But they took almost EVERYTHING from some form of Star Wars... The plot and characters were obvious bad knockoffs of those in the classic Star Wars trilogy. As for character personalities and backstories, though, they were EXTREMELY flat. And the battle system was very reminiscent to Star Wars: KotOR. If you're not a bit distrubed by that, then you have no pride as a fan of the classic FF's.

I have not forgotten that Enix pretty much publishes DQ, while Level-5 develops under Enix's supervision. SE doesn't have a good reason to stop making FF though, millions of people still like them; just like millions of people still like Mario and how Nintendo has sold over 200 million games featuring Mario since he came out on the Super Famicom.

Mario is also a rather thin and lifeless franchise, IMHO.

I can tell by there are going to be points that we will probably agree to disagree on (Angeal included), I'm not looking at getting involved with a multiple page debate here, just wanted to share my opinion.

Thank you for sharing it. ^^ It gives me all the more reason to share all the well-thought-out, subtle nuances of my opinion as well.

 

[Lord Varys]

Orly nao? You seem to have ignored all obvious evidence presented here.

Heh, you are the one calling them money whores.

Riiiiight. And that's why SE felt the need to put Gackt in Dirge of Cerberus and Crisis Core. It's called fanservice, it was nothing more than a marketing ploy. Not to mention sequels aren't always a good thing. Remember Toy Story 2? Remember Lion King 2, or more recently, Lion King 1/2? Or perhaps Spider Man 3? Things have a tendency to reach a pinnacle, when this happens they shouldn't be touched. And if they are, great care should be taken so as to do justice to the original.

Are you trying to say that CC and DoC are not a good idea?

Actually it's more than an opinion. It is the most hated FF game, just try looking at fans' responses to it across multiple boards, etc. Yes, there ARE people who like X-2, but you'll find that the number of FF fans who dislike it and have been disappointed by it outweighs those who like it, or those who have disliked other FFs.

Wrong. It's still opinion.

IMO they should have postponed it, rather than trying to rush it out. Fans don't like delays, but they dislike it even more when a game feels halfassed. People are generally very happy when they finally get their hands on a game that was worth the wait.

They couldn't, it was in production long enough that their fanbase was getting upset. Five years is too long for a game of FF's caliber to be in production.

As a matter of fact I do.

Good. Is the reason why you are so very critical of SE's FF games now days because they lack the nostalgia factor, or maybe, because your standards are way too high?

How exactly is it possible to look at them as separate...? X-2 is a direct sequel with the same characters, there's no getting around that...if it had different main characters then yeah, but it didn't.

X is about stopping Sin, X-2 is not; Sin does not make some idiotic return in X-2. X-2 is about Yuna finding out the mystery behind the spheres, I'm sure you know that. So what if Tidus disappeared at the end of X only to come back in the perfect ending of X-2, if it ruins X's ending for you, just forget about it, don't view as canonical. The sequel was made for those that wanted it.

Only it's SO much less likely, seeing as how, oh, there's no Geostigma to kill people...no terrorists...no lifestream + holy...

blah, blah, blah, oh wait the lifestream is still there otherwise the planet would've fallen apart like that planet did in Bugenhagen's machine in FFVII. So there's still a chance.

Nobody ever said they should stop making FF. We'd just like to see some games of the same caliber as the old ones. And maybe a little less blatant fanservice.

What is that caliber that supposedly separates the old games from the new? Is it a nostalgia feeling? Is it story? What is it about SE now that they are failing to meet the caliber of their newer games that their old ones had?

I'm curious, because all this complaining about SE not making good FF games anymore isn't justified. Most of the time I see people that are complaining do so because they have some unreasonably high standard due to past FF games, and thus complain for the sake of complaining and fail to realize they look like fools in the end.

 

[Marshy]

Well your missing another one, FFT

But back to this i dont think that there money whores... Its pretty much just adding another game to the series. They just didnt want the players to be too confused with the plot of FFVII. Maybe FFX-2 was too far but idk about you but i wanted to see more of what Yuna would do. Just not like that... The more games the merrier i say.

Come now, you can have characters, and situations like that and still be inspired. Besides, they totally left out Ashe in a slave outfit.

She wore a short skirt which was pretty damn close to you know what

 

[Rockman X]

Heh, you are the one calling them money whores.

Because they are. I see you're finally running out of things to say.

Are you trying to say that CC and DoC are not a good idea?

Yes I am.

Wrong. It's still opinion.

Ya know, it's fans like you we have to thank for SE's abysmal games. It's not an opinon, X-2 is the most ill-received game in the franchise. If you bothered to look around you instead of ignoring everything, you'd notice.

They couldn't, it was in production long enough that their fanbase was getting upset. Five years is too long for a game of FF's caliber to be in production.

Riiiiiight. There are games that have been delayed longer than that, like Duke Nukem Forever...that was a TEN YEAR delay. 5 years isn't that long.

Good. Is the reason why you are so very critical of SE's FF games now days because they lack the nostalgia factor, or maybe, because your standards are way too high?

Ah, now I get it. I have to lower my standards so I can enjoy SE's mediocre, half-assed games. No thanks.

X is about stopping Sin, X-2 is not; Sin does not make some idiotic return in X-2. X-2 is about Yuna finding out the mystery behind the spheres, I'm sure you know that. So what if Tidus disappeared at the end of X only to come back in the perfect ending of X-2, if it ruins X's ending for you, just forget about it, don't view as canonical. The sequel was made for those that wanted it.

That's the problem, it conflicts with canon established in X. Tidus shouldn't be alive in X-2.

blah, blah, blah, oh wait the lifestream is still there otherwise the planet would've fallen apart like that planet did in Bugenhagen's machine in FFVII. So there's still a chance.

Uh...no, there's not a chance. The lifestream erupted to help Holy push away Meteor. The lifestream produced Geostigma. Lifestream calming down + Geostigma gone = no chance.

What is that caliber that supposedly separates the old games from the new? Is it a nostalgia feeling? Is it story? What is it about SE now that they are failing to meet the caliber of their newer games that their old ones had?

The caliber is better story development, better characters (especially those designed by Nomura), and better character development. If anything, it's the older games themselves that cause the nostalgia, it wouldn't be so pronounced if the current SE games were better, now would it?

I'm curious, because all this complaining about SE not making good FF games anymore isn't justified. Most of the time I see people that are complaining do so because they have some unreasonably high standard due to past FF games, and thus complain for the sake of complaining and fail to realize they look like fools in the end.

It's not justified? For one constantly commenting on others' opinions, you sure do like to tout them around yourself.

Are you saying it's WRONG to set high standards? Square set the bar high, they gave us great games. You telling me that my standards are too high is like saying that my standard is too high for the Spyro the Dragon games, despite Insomniac not owning them anymore and their current failure.
Here's a little secret: when you get something great by a company for years, your standards will become high. When that something is given to you by someone else, you will compare it to your high standard. SE falls short of that standard.

By the way, I would like to direct you to WolfBlack's excellent post, since you have a nasty habit of ignoring posts that could prove you wrong. I noticed you failed to say anything about my point on Gackt being complete fanservice.

 

[Lord Varys]

What problem...? The problem where people actually expect excellence out of what was once a great company that actually created POLISHED products once upon a time...?

Who says they are not?

Yeah... Of course they don't have to buy a bunch of other games to understand VII. Y'know why...? Because SQUARESOFT made it when they cared about making a complete, presentable experience. SE gets money by making people THINK they missed something in VII by making prequels/sequels, thus deceiving their fans. How's that for being a nice, good company that only looks out for the fans, huh?

They're not trying to make people think they missed something by creating sequels. I don't see how pleasing their fans by creating new stories based on the story in FFVII with returning characters can be such a bad thing, it's a win-win for both sides. If you don't agree with the sequels or prequels, don't bother with it. There's really no use in whining over it either, a small number of people who disagree with the FFVII Compilation aren't going to change SE's business practice.

That's also your opinion... Which is misinformed, I might add. By saying it is the most hated can also mean a general consensus, rather than JUST individual opinion, as you so misread. And yes... SHAME on them for ONCE AGAIN, making the fans feel they missed something in FFX by releasing a sequel, effectively deceiving the fans. How dare we expect a game of quality out of SE!

LOL, your opinion of me being misinformed is nothing but a opinion in itself. A general consensus would consist of people's opinion wouldn't? And I know, it's such a shame for a game company to actually listen to their fans and answer back with what they wanted. How dare we expect such a generous response from a game company that cares about it's fans.

Postpone it. Simple solution, straight to the point... If people care enough to gratify their fans with a COMPLETE and well-planned out product, they would wait for the man to get better and continue afterwards. After all... SE had a ton of other games out around then to generate revenue. DQVIII being just one.

FFXII was in production for 5 years or so, they really couldn't extend it any longer; they even moved FFXIII off of the PS2 and onto the PS3 because it was taking so long. Plus, when Yasumi Matsuno left, what were they to do? They were handcuffed since he was the original director and writer, they had to complete the game the best they could.

Who called them money whores for just that...? That's just an additive... I love their remakes. It's just, that is ALL that I love out of SE... Well... That and 666 Satan, but they only publish that in Japan.

Read this thread, there is at least one for sure who has called them money whores, and wrongly so.

Also your opinion if you insinuate that they are getting better... More power to you! You're one of a very few that do... Most of them under the age of 13, I don't doubt... And yes, I do chalk up the GAMES being worse as the COMPANY being worse. What else are we supposed to judge them by, their Final Fantasy energy drinks...?!?

How is the company worse now than it was years ago? How are the games now than they were years ago?

If you find nothing wrond with opinions, why do you try to change people's minds with your own and rubbish false facts?

I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion. Why are people who call SE money whores trying to change other fans minds with their rubbish false facts?

And the battle system was very reminiscent to Star Wars: KotOR. If you're not a bit distrubed by that, then you have no pride as a fan of the classic FF's.

Don't talk to me about Pride pertaining to any of the FF games, when people are calling SE money whores without any justifiable reason.

 

[Scarlet]

Heh, you are the one calling them money whores.

Are you trying to say that CC and DoC are not a good idea?

Umm yeah, DoC wasn't that great actually... Yes it's MY opinion but as VR said if you actually skim through, and read what fans have to say about DoC it wasn't that impressive. It actually got really low ratings. Yes, Famitsu gave it a 28 out of 40.

Wrong. It's still opinion.

HI! IT'S RIGHT HERE! http://www.finalfantasyforums.net/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=784 Guess what members voted as the worst game!? I dunno....X-2?

VR was saying that that MANY Final Fantasy fan agreed that FFX-2 was the worst Final Fantasy game ever.

Good. Is the reason why you are so very critical of SE's FF games now days because they lack the nostalgia factor, or maybe, because your standards are way too high?

No, they aren't. Let's take a look at the past few games SE has actually release. Oh wait, no, IT'S MY OPINION RIGHT!?

-FFX-2, although it sold many copies and it was popular in Japan... Many fans agree that it's one of the worst Final fantasy game... (Beisdes FFF, there are many other forums. I'm sure it's voted the worst game as well.)

- DoC as I said above. It got terrible ratings, it wasn't really favored by fans.

- FF Tactics Advanced and FFXII either FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN BY THE WAY, NOT MY OPINION said they either don't like it or they love it. Yes you can say fans hated FFI, VII, IX, whatever but both of these games, FFTA and FFXII weren't favored as much as the older games.

God for bid I have high standards! Of course I do! I will by CC and other SE games to give them a chance of course. The past few games they released I didn't really like. Yes, the older games were better. I except the new games to be just as good as the older games. Changing summons, having no world maps, etc... I can go on without the classic Final Fantasy signature characters, spells, whatever. Change is okay, I don't mind it. As long as SE comes out with great games then, cool, whatever. I did like Kingdom Hearts I and II by the way. I can't wait for the next two KH games.

 

[Lord Varys]

Because they are. I see you're finally running out of things to say.

Riiight. No, no, it's because you're stubborn, and selfish in that SE is not making games to your standards.

Yes I am.

So, was SE wrong to make them then? Do they need to check to see if any future sequels, or spinoffs are up to your standards?

Ya know, it's fans like you we have to thank for SE's abysmal games. It's not an opinon, X-2 is the most ill-received game in the franchise. If you bothered to look around you instead of ignoring everything, you'd notice.

No, no, merely the opposite I'm afraid. I want to see SE continue to evolve as story tellers.

Riiiiiight. There are games that have been delayed longer than that, like Duke Nukem Forever...that was a TEN YEAR delay. 5 years isn't that long.

Duke Nukem isn't as established as FF is now is it? The FF series has sold over 80 million copies world wide.

Ah, now I get it. I have to lower my standards so I can enjoy SE's mediocre, half-assed games. No thanks.

No, I'm saying your narrow minded because your standards are so high.

Uh...no, there's not a chance. The lifestream erupted to help Holy push away Meteor. The lifestream produced Geostigma. Lifestream calming down + Geostigma gone = no chance.

Uh...yes, there is a chance. The reason why the lifestream has calmed is because there is no threat to the planet.

The caliber is better story development, better characters (especially those designed by Nomura), and better character development. If anything, it's the older games themselves that cause the nostalgia, it wouldn't be so pronounced if the current SE games were better, now would it?

That's fine, I'm not going to debate you there.

It's not justified? For one constantly commenting on others' opinions, you sure do like to tout them around yourself.

As do you, since you feel like SE are money whores, and obviously have no trouble touting that because they don't meet your standards.

Are you saying it's WRONG to set high standards?

No I am not.

Square set the bar high, they gave us great games.

Yes they gave us great games, I'm not disputing that. Square has changed since the Squaresoft days, have you changed? It seems to me you are still stuck in the past as with your standards, while SE has evolved a long with the evolvement of consoles, their methods of story telling has changed.

Here's a little secret: when you get something great by a company for years, your standards will become high. When that something is given to you by someone else, you will compare it to your high standard. SE falls short of that standard.

And getting the same great thing for years, you can become, spoiled, and if you keep expecting to see games reach that high standard you were used to, but fail, you find yourself disappointed. So what do you do? Continue expecting the same thing from the games that raised the bar high, or expect that games won't reach that level and not be disappointed in the end?

I noticed you failed to say anything about my point on Gackt being complete fanservice.

I can't comment on Gackt, never played DoC.

 

[Rockman X]

Riiight. No, no, it's because you're stubborn, and selfish in that SE is not making games to your standards.

lolwut? I'm selfish? Here's a clue for you: they're not up to ALOT of others' standards. I really love how you completely ignored Cerri's post, in which she provides you proof that X-2 is the most hated FF.

So, was SE wrong to make them then? Do they need to check to see if any future sequels, or spinoffs are up to your standards?

No, they don't need to check with me. They should probably ask some long-time FF fans for advice, though.

No, no, merely the opposite I'm afraid. I want to see SE continue to evolve as story tellers.

You call X-2 and XII "evolved"? Dear lord, I feel sorry for you then.

Duke Nukem isn't as established as FF is now is it? The FF series has sold over 80 million copies world wide.

You know, you're almost as bad as Tedius with ignoring common knowledge/facts. Duke Nukem IS well established, although if you never PC gamed or never touched FPS games you probably wouldn't know that. Duke Nukem 3D was ported from PC to every console at the time because it did so well, and got a few console only sequels.

No, I'm saying your narrow minded because your standards are so high.

I'd rather be narrow-minded than waste my money

Uh...yes, there is a chance. The reason why the lifestream has calmed is because there is no threat to the planet.

Right, so if there's no threat, how's there a chance? xD Besides, I never even said the chance was eliminated in the first place, I only said it was extremely small.

As do you, since you feel like SE are money whores, and obviously have no trouble touting that because they don't meet your standards.

I find it funny you had to use a word I did and couldn't think of something else. No, they don't meet my standards. They don't meet the standards of alot of FF fans.

No I am not.

Liez.

Yes they gave us great games, I'm not disputing that. Square has changed since the Squaresoft days, have you changed? It seems to me you are still stuck in the past as with your standards, while SE has evolved a long with the evolvement of consoles, their methods of story telling has changed.

I'd say SE's change is closer to de-evolution, my friend.

And getting the same great thing for years, you can become, spoiled, and if you keep expecting to see games reach that high standard you were used to, but fail, you find yourself disappointed. So what do you do? Continue expecting the same thing from the games that raised the bar high, or expect that games won't reach that level and not be disappointed in the end?

Told ya. You're saying I'm in the wrong and are telling me to lower my standards so I can enjoy the games. As a consumer, WHY should I do that?

I can't comment on Gackt, never played DoC.

Gackt = Japanese pop star. Ex-vocalist of the visual kei group Malice Mizer, now a solo act and also in the super band S.K.I.N.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gackt

His inclusion in DoC and Crisis Core was nothing more than pure fanservice to draw in more Japanese consumers.

 

[Lord Varys]

Umm yeah, DoC wasn't that great actually... Yes it's MY opinion but as VR said if you actually skim through, and read what fans have to say about DoC it wasn't that impressive. It actually got really low ratings. Yes, Famitsu gave it a 28 out of 40.

That's fine, I know a lot of people didn't like it, I'm not trying to change their opinions on it. It's just the fans that are so stuck up and feel that SE shouldn't do anything involving prequels or sequels, and the fans that think that SE cares only about money and not producing quality games because the games aren't like the games in the 90's.

HI! IT'S RIGHT HERE! http://www.finalfantasyforums.net/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=784 Guess what members voted as the worst game!? I dunno....X-2?

VR was saying that that MANY Final Fantasy fan agreed that FFX-2 was the worst Final Fantasy game ever.

So that makes the opinion fact then?

No, they aren't. Let's take a look at the past few games SE has actually release. Oh wait, no, IT'S MY OPINION RIGHT!?

-FFX-2, although it sold many copies and it was popular in Japan... Many fans agree that it's one of the worst Final fantasy game... (Beisdes FFF, there are many other forums. I'm sure it's voted the worst game as well.)

So because many fans agree that it's the worst FF, that makes it fact? Fact as in everyone completely agrees with it?

- DoC as I said above. It got terrible ratings, it wasn't really favored by fans.

Yes, I know.

- FF Tactics Advanced and FFXII either FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN BY THE WAY, NOT MY OPINION said they either don't like it or they love it. Yes you can say fans hated FFI, VII, IX, whatever but both of these games, FFTA and FFXII weren't favored as much as the older games.

I hope you're not thinking I'm trying to change people's opinion's here.

God for bid I have high standards!

While it's good to have high standards or expectations, people can be blinded by them, to a point where games can be unfairly judged. And at the same time set themselves up for disappointment.

For example, Xenogears. The first disc was like any normal RPG, the second disc was not. It was largely a narration. At first I hated this, because I was expecting the second disc to be like the first, but after time I began to accept it, and before too long I appreciated it, because it offered a different take on telling the story.

Another example is Xenosaga. Many fans of Xenogears, like myself were all expecting Xenosaga to span 6 games. It ended up being only 3 games, I was disappointed, so much so that I wouldn't get the 2nd or 3rd games. Now, I'm regretting that decision, I want to get the 2nd and 3rd games, to see what I am missing.

I except the new games to be just as good as the older games. Changing summons, having no world maps, etc... I can go on without the classic Final Fantasy signature characters, spells, whatever. Change is okay, I don't mind it. As long as SE comes out with great games then, cool, whatever. I did like Kingdom Hearts I and II by the way. I can't wait for the next two KH games.

I expect the new games as well, to be good as the old, if not, to see them good in their own right. I really like that you are open to change, I admire that, I feel that's something somewhat lacking in some gamers (not directing that at anyone specific) today.

I know I've probably come off as an asshole, and probably some of you want to go omnislash and worse on me, and I know I haven't done good enough to express my opinions, which is obviously why some think I'm trying to change people's opinions. For that I apologize. It is honestly very tiring to see fans belittle SE for doing nothing other than make games, and try to please their fans.

So what if their games aren't up to the standards of the older games, at least they trying still (whether you agree with that or not) to get to those standards for the fans of the older games, while making games good in their own right for the fans that are still loyal to them. They can't please everyone. I hope that SE continues to make FF games to the best of their ability, it would be such a shame to see such a storied series to die out.

 

[Scarlet]

Umm yes an opinion is an opinion. What I was pointing out was the majority of fans have agreed that FFX-2 is the worst game. There is no way of going around it. Statically, shown by polls on this site and other gaming sites, that FFX-2 is voted the worst Final Fantasy game they ever played. That is called Social statistics by the way.

Edit: VR was too lazy to post this:

You have just been trying for the past two posts to tell me I needed to lower my standards, if thats not trying to get people to change their opinions I don't know what is.

 

[RioDragon]

That's fine, I know a lot of people didn't like it, I'm not trying to change their opinions on it. It's just the fans that are so stuck up and feel that SE shouldn't do anything involving prequels or sequels, and the fans that think that SE cares only about money and not producing quality games because the games aren't like the games in the 90's.

Y'know what... There's a reason for that... If they apply themselves, they can STILL make games of the quality shown in the 90's. That's the problem we have with them. They don't apply themselves. They just settle for fanservice on everything and figure that they don't need to put any passion into a game as long as the fans buy it. Yes, I have a problem with it. I find a problem with Square-Enix when I'm more willing to pick up .hack//G.U. (based on an already established anime franchise, the games done by a company that is not very well known) than I am to pick up FFXII.

So that makes the opinion fact then?

Uh... For one... When it's not an opinion... Like when we say FFX-2 was the most hated SE game, that means that Most of the fans hated it, proven via polls and voting. And, my opinion is that YOUR opinion is nothing but seein g every FF as a work of genius merely because it's FF. So your standards are too low, but, that's just my opinion.

So because many fans agree that it's the worst FF, that makes it fact? Fact as in everyone completely agrees with it?

Everyone agrees it's the most hated amongst the fans, yes... Wait... Everyone except you who can't seem to grasp the concept of the English language and what we're trying to tell you. You tend to like using circular logic without even acknowledging what other people say.

I hope you're not thinking I'm trying to change people's opinion's here.

I wonder how we get that idea!?! You only acknowledge everything EXCEPT the biggest points of a person's argument, hoping they forget what they put down.

While it's good to have high standards or expectations, people can be blinded by them, to a point where games can be unfairly judged. And at the same time set themselves up for disappointment.

Oh, I'm so sorry for expecting something up-to-par with FFX long after FFX was made! I should know that technology has degraded since then! :sarcasm: They're not unfairly judged if they're not as well-made as the previous games in the series. For FF's 1-10, Square was trying to do they most they could with technology in terms of graphics, but they could easily just do that with one disc. With the PSone games, though, they didn't stick to one disc because they cared about presenting a COMPLETE story with detailed character personalities and Nuances. SE is just flash to give little kiddies a hard-on.

For example, Xenogears. The first disc was like any normal RPG, the second disc was not. It was largely a narration. At first I hated this, because I was expecting the second disc to be like the first, but after time I began to accept it, and before too long I appreciated it, because it offered a different take on telling the story.

And what was this...? A Square game. Not an SE game. Square cared about storytelling. SE relied on the players just thinking every moment of CG and ingame graphics is cool. This is rather shallow, considering how SE came from Square.

Another example is Xenosaga. Many fans of Xenogears, like myself were all expecting Xenosaga to span 6 games. It ended up being only 3 games, I was disappointed, so much so that I wouldn't get the 2nd or 3rd games. Now, I'm regretting that decision, I want to get the 2nd and 3rd games, to see what I am missing.

Too bad you aren't completing Xenogears. However, I don't see where 3 games compared to 6 is a problem... It just means less money for you to waste and if you feel 3 games would suck compared to your desired 6 games, it was SE that made the Xenosaga games, just keep it in mind.

I expect the new games as well, to be good as the old, if not, to see them good in their own right. I really like that you are open to change, I admire that, I feel that's something somewhat lacking in some gamers (not directing that at anyone specific) today.

Then why fight our opinions...? All we are is fans who want improvement, not like the fans of Fallout, who want everything in Fallout 3 to be EXACTLY the same as the first 2 games, despite a ten-year technology gap.

I know I've probably come off as an asshole, and probably some of you want to go omnislash and worse on me, and I know I haven't done good enough to express my opinions, which is obviously why some think I'm trying to change people's opinions. For that I apologize. It is honestly very tiring to see fans belittle SE for doing nothing other than make games, and try to please their fans.

Thanks for your thanks. ^^ However, that's the problem, SE trying to please the NEW fans as opposed to the old. It's the veteran fans that want the series to get better. It's the newer fans and their obsession over certain characters and storylines that holds the games back.

So what if their games aren't up to the standards of the older games, at least they trying still (whether you agree with that or not) to get to those standards for the fans of the older games, while making games good in their own right for the fans that are still loyal to them. They can't please everyone. I hope that SE continues to make FF games to the best of their ability, it would be such a shame to see such a storied series to die out.

That's the whole point. Us old fans DO NOT see that quality in any of their games. And so, we assume it was something that left with Sakaguchi. How easy is it to keep loyalty when it comes to 10+ lackluster FF titles? You pretty much have to be without personality or opinion to stick with a company that long. Amen to the 'best of their ability' part. Lord knows they aren't making them to the best of their ability now.

 

[Scrutator]

Ignoring the complete quote fest out of sheer laziness.

Square-Enix is much more money hungry than Squaresoft was. Think about it the first thing square releases when Square and Enix merge is a sequel (FF X-2) and has continued to whore classic FF franchises and not making any new additions to the series. Before Enix FF sequels were unheard of; now FF X, VII and XII all have sequels/spin-off and more are to come (FF XIII). Agree?

Main reason for higher amount of remakes/spinoffs is because higher developing costs as well as paying for employees which are in high number as well as having to do the basic business practise of making money mean they need to increase their chance of revenue. Losing a shit load of cash with Spirits Within probably had something to do with it too.

They made money what they were doing before but if a company can make more profit by making a quick buck on shitty games then so be it, doesn't affect me since I avoid stuff like that anyway. It's a shame of course since I don't have much interest in the FF series in general now because of it but there's enough out there to not nother me that much.

 

[Gingerbread Lesbian]

That's fine, I know a lot of people didn't like it, I'm not trying to change their opinions on it. It's just the fans that are so stuck up and feel that SE shouldn't do anything involving prequels or sequels, and the fans that think that SE cares only about money and not producing quality games because the games aren't like the games in the 90's.

Maybe because all the sequels and prequels are either extremely pointless or just poor AND pointless. Just look at the sequels/prequels that don't need to be released at all: Final Fantasy IV the After: Return of the Moon, Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus, Before Crisis, X-2, Revenant Wings, FFT: The War of the Lions and FFTA2: Grimoire of the Rift are all pointless games that take a huge amount of money from someones back pocket. If it isn't money whoring then I don't know what is.

So because many fans agree that it's the worst FF, that makes it fact? Fact as in everyone completely agrees with it?

Yes, the majority of people will agree with VR.
X-2 destroyed the series, it changed the series from being an emotional concept to a Girl's Aloud pop concert. All they did was re-use the same cities that were made for X and use a soundtrack amd story that was horribly pathetic...in other words...X-2 was a failure of a game.

While it's good to have high standards or expectations, people can be blinded by them, to a point where games can be unfairly judged. And at the same time set themselves up for disappointment.

...and is this not the companies fault? Is it not them who hype the game up to sell more?

I expect the new games as well, to be good as the old, if not, to see them good in their own right. I really like that you are open to change, I admire that, I feel that's something somewhat lacking in some gamers (not directing that at anyone specific) today.

I agree with Wolf, if you admired it that much you wouldn't have argued through page after page...

So what if their games aren't up to the standards of the older games, at least they trying still (whether you agree with that or not) to get to those standards for the fans of the older games, while making games good in their own right for the fans that are still loyal to them. They can't please everyone.

Thats the thing though since Soft left the quality has gone so of course the older fans are going to show their views on it. However, SE are still wanting more and more money and it is proven by the fact that Nomura openly stated in an interview that he would not be suprised that Cloud could make an appearance in XIII or at the very least a future game

- "I have my hands full with Final Fantasy Versus XIII now, so I can't say anything about the future, but the scenario writer, Nojima Kazushige, says he doesn't want to part from Cloud yet, so there will surely be something."

Talk about 'overusing' a successful character to the point its boring and shows the lack of creativity at SE.

 

[Rockman X]

Uh... For one... When it's not an opinion... Like when we say FFX-2 was the most hated SE game, that means that Most of the fans hated it, proven via polls and voting. And, my opinion is that YOUR opinion is nothing but seein g every FF as a work of genius merely because it's FF. So your standards are too low, but, that's just my opinion.

Now now, Wolf, be gentle on the lad. I don't think he knows what polls are

I wonder how we get that idea!?! You only acknowledge everything EXCEPT the biggest points of a person's argument, hoping they forget what they put down.

I bet you Lord Varys will forget to quote this too

You seem to like to remain in the dark, Varys. I don't know if you have stock invested in SE or just can't appreciate better stories, but you have a nasty habit of ignoring everything someone says that can prove you wrong.

Oh, I'm so sorry for expecting something up-to-par with FFX long after FFX was made! I should know that technology has degraded since then! :sarcasm: They're not unfairly judged if they're not as well-made as the previous games in the series. For FF's 1-10, Square was trying to do they most they could with technology in terms of graphics, but they could easily just do that with one disc. With the PSone games, though, they didn't stick to one disc because they cared about presenting a COMPLETE story with detailed character personalities and Nuances. SE is just flash to give little kiddies a hard-on.

What he said

That's the whole point. Us old fans DO NOT see that quality in any of their games. And so, we assume it was something that left with Sakaguchi. How easy is it to keep loyalty when it comes to 10+ lackluster FF titles? You pretty much have to be without personality or opinion to stick with a company that long. Amen to the 'best of their ability' part. Lord knows they aren't making them to the best of their ability now.

And that is why I've lost nearly all faith in SE and now look to Mistwalker. Sakaguchi isn't an idiot, he knows what he's doing as far as RPGs go. Spirits Within was simply a mistake...unfortunately a very costly one.

Maybe because all the sequels and prequels are either extremely pointless or just poor AND pointless. Just look at the sequels/prequels that don't need to be released at all: Final Fantasy IV the After: Return of the Moon, Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus, Before Crisis, X-2, Revenant Wings, FFT: The War of the Lions and FFTA2: Grimoire of the Rift are all pointless games that take a huge amount of money from someones back pocket. If it isn't money whoring then I don't know what is.

Woooah there. I agree with you on all of that except Tactics. The original on the PSone was an excellent game, but not that many people have played it, so I'm glad it'll get some newfound exposure.

However, throwing Balthier in that game as more than just a secret character (ala Cloud being dimensionally transported in the original) pretty much warps the timeline in Ivalice, since Tactics takes place roughly a couple hundred years after XII, possibly more. I love how SE pays such great attention to detail and staying canon

Thats the thing though since Soft left the quality has gone so of course the older fans are going to show their views on it. However, SE are still wanting more and more money and it is proven by the fact that Nomura openly stated in an interview that he would not be suprised that Cloud could make an appearance in XIII or at the very least a future game

- "I have my hands full with Final Fantasy Versus XIII now, so I can't say anything about the future, but the scenario writer, Nojima Kazushige, says he doesn't want to part from Cloud yet, so there will surely be something."

Talk about 'overusing' a successful character to the point its boring and shows the lack of creativity at SE.

Oh goody, more Cloud, that's sure to get the girls squealing ;

Or perhaps he meant that in reference to Lightning, since she's supposed to be the female version of Cloud. I wonder if she'll sprout a wing from her back too, SE is beating that into the ground as well.

 

[Gingerbread Lesbian]

Woooah there. I agree with you on all of that except Tactics. The original on the PSone was an excellent game, but not that many people have played it, so I'm glad it'll get some newfound exposure.

Ahhh, I see, I'll take that back then. I haven't played War of the Lions soI didn't realize it was the same game re-released. To be honest I thought it was just some awful spin-off with FFT in its name, but considering it was the PS1 version updates then it can only be better than the PS release which was awesome.

My bad.

 

[Rockman X]

Ahhh, I see, I'll take that back then. I haven't played War of the Lions soI didn't realize it was the same game re-released. To be honest I thought it was just some awful spin-off with FFT in its name, but considering it was the PS1 version updates then it can only be better than the PS release which was awesome.

My bad.

Yeah, it's the PSone version and it's actually been given a fairly decent overhaul, so it's well worth the money. I'm glad they chose to remake it, it's a great game with an amazing storyline...and it proves you CAN have an amazing storyline with great character development, unlike XII. Kind of sad a 10 year old game can manage to fit in a superior story and good characters and XII can't. It proves my point on XII being halfassed Tactics A2, on the other hand....I'm being wary of.

As much as I detest SE now, I'm glad to see that they're actually putting effort into remakes. It got annoying seeing release after release of games but only slight updates to the sprites.