Dragon Mage Breaks Down The FF7 Plot (So You Don't Have To)

This is just great. I have read it through and I find it an amazing piece of work which must have taken a great deal of time. I commend you for your patience, research and offering of what is : A very well done guideline explaining everything a person might want to know

Thank you for you time and patience and dedication to the forums, with the inclusion of an article of this magnitude.
 
Thank you, Roland, and you are most welcome. I love this game and, yeah, it did take me 2 days to finish it all, comments like yours make it well worth it and I consider it time well spent.

^_^
 
Ha! Someone call Square Enix quick, they'd have a fortune on their hands if they create this game. John Carpenter's Final Fantasy. Do. Want.

Yes it does, and there shall be even more chocolate to celebrate with after these phrases rule all. Oh, yes there will.

:D I don't blame you for not wanting to suffer through Final Fantasy X-2. Honestly though, it wasn't as bad as the horror stories I've heard about it have claimed. Of course, I was drinking heavily while playing it, so maybe it was the sweet bourbon making the game bearable. Just kidding... or am I?

Seriously though, yeah, there's a child genius named Shinra who talks about siphoning off the power of the planet in order to one day use as a means of energy. Then Yuna starts rambling about a city where the lights will never turn off. Or something to that effect.

What you said makes a lot of sense, about the world of X having interstellar travel being in the future as VII's world does not have that advanced a level of technology. ... Ah, here it is, I found that quote that I mentioned earlier.

Kazushige Nojima said:
"After quitting the Gullwings, Shinra received enormous financial support from Rin, and began trying to use Vegnagun to siphon Mako Energy from the Farplane. But, he is unable to complete the system for utilizing this energy in his generation, and in the future, when traveling to distant planets becomes possible, the Shin-Ra Company is founded on another world, or something like that....... That would happen about 1000 years after this story, I think."
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I'm not quite sure if what he says is canonical, though this guy was a writer for both VII and X-2. Of course, it doesn't make much sense. If Shinra has the technology to travel to other worlds, than why don't they have near that level of interstellar technology a thousand years later? Honestly, it opens up more questions than answers, and I wonder if this was nothing more than a little "Easter egg" to fans instead of a logical storyline connection.
 
Yes, consuming ridiculous quantities of alcohol would be the only way to make X or X-2 even bearable, and that's because the alcohol is dulling the pain receptors in the brain. :3

I have a very low opinion of those games, I just can't stand them. Sorry.

John Carpenter's Final Fantasy. Do. Want.
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DO-WANT.jpg


Oh yeah. That'd be awesome.



To be honest, I think it is just an Easter Egg thing. FFX is very metaphysical, with dead people not staying... well, dead, with dreams becoming reality and so on.... It makes sense to me that the writers would want to have fun and reference the most popular game in the series and then chuckle afterward. The unique ambiguity of the X setting would allow for it. And hey, it's what I would do if I were them. So it makes more sense to me that the writers were having a little fun than any actual storyline connection. Because when you try to rationalize it -- even considering how twisty and strange the FF series can be when it comes to logic -- it just doesn't make any sense. And that's saying something, lol!
 
Heh. No need for a sorry, I have no special allegiance toward X or X-2. For the most part, I'd rank them on the low end of the scales of Final Fantasy. I also can't even look at a picture of Tidus or Yuna without reaching for a bottle of vodka. Thank you Final Fantasy X-2! ;)

House! That was my exact impression, good call. Plus I absolutely love House, so there's all sorts of win going on right now.

You do make a lot of sense there, and I'm with you on that one. I do think it was just a neat little plus for fans of both games to get a giggle over, however illogical. That's one thing that raised my eyebrows about Final Fantasy X. The dead not staying dead I mean. I appreciate the metaphysical concept behind it, but I have the sort of mind that always asks questions and looks for logic. Yep, I'm one of THOSE jerks. On a metaphysical level it's interesting, but on a rational level I was all "bwah!?!"

... Since this is a thread about VII, I don't want to derail it by going into X. Haha, I'll shut up now about it.

Since VII is a superior game, (Well in MY mind, others will disagree) do you believe that there should be a sequel to it? Or do you feel that the storyline of VII has been wrapped up adequately and there's no need for Square Enix to tap that well again?
 
Holy shit. This is really good. Awesome job, DM. I am very impressed. I hope to see more of these in the future.
 
I'd just like to point out to the general readers of this thread that just about all of this can be found in the original Final Fantasy VII game. Not all of it with the extensity that it's explained here (notable examples like Vincent's backstory or professor Gast's complete involvement in Shinra stand out), but certainly enough to grasp these same ideas in-game.

Of any section in this entire game, the one I'd stress paying attention to the most is The Reunion. As soon as you hit the other side of The Great Glacier you also start to hit major revelations about the game's central plot points. Here we begin to see the unraveling of Cloud's world, testaments by Hojo as to how he came to be that way and what the reunion is, truths regarding the state of Sephiroth and Jenova as explained by multiple characters, and what it's basically all for. Major points relevant to the plot of FFVII are explored here.

* Another important section of the game that I forgot about is that of the Temple of the Ancients. This portion is particularly important because Sephiroth clearly illustrates his plan to our heroes so you can understand his motives and why it's important to stop him.

For the extended information on Gast/Ifalna and their research on Jenova and how it actually pertains to Gaia and the Cetra, merely visit the house to your immediate left at the Icicle Inn/Knowlespole and watch the tapes.

For the extensive truth regarding Cloud's illusionary state of mind and the recollection of the true identity, see the plot-driven Lifestream drift with Cloud and Tifa (the other big section I'd recommend paying attention to) and his speech to the team once aboard the Highwind.

For optional detail on Cloud's escape from experimentation and journey to Midgar with Zack, see the basement of Nibelheim in Disc 3. Optional information on Tifa can also be uncovered at her piano.

The optional backstory of Vincent is first provided with the letter provided to obtain Vincent and can further be uncovered if you visit Lucrecia's secret cave during discs 2 and 3.

I believe the final confrontation with Hojo is also telling of a point or two.

The things that are crucial to an understanding of the game are provided directly in mandatory, plot-driven scenes. The additional stuff that isn't quite important but flesh things out more can be found with some digging (especially in Nibelheim). It's all there, it just requires that you pay attention.

And lastly, as it's been said already, the most important thing to keep in mind is that your perception of events is comparable to those of the characters (Cloud's in particular). Events unfold to you as they do to them, so believed truths in the beginning are not necessarily so, as the topic post thoroughly explains.
 
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There are large errors in this thread, but i'll point out the one that should be corrected asap (not sure why anyone else hasn't corrected anything??)

Soldiers were not infused with jenova cells, they were exposed to raw mako.

Zack and Cloud had only been infused with Jenova cells shortly before Zack's death while protecting Cloud in his coma.

If Zack (SOLDIER 1st Class) had already been infused with j-cells as you have claimed, why had genesis only wanted Zack's DNA after he had been infused with the j-cells at Nibelheim? Exactly. :)
 
I appreciate your willingness to point out an perceived error, but in fact, it is out-right stated that SOLDIER's are injected with J-cells. Cloud says it himself, as I have provided the actual quote in the post, right after the Lifestream scene when Cloud gives a speech to the group.

As for the Crises Core reference, I specifically said that I only used the original game (and a little from the movie) when making this post. It is also fairly well-known that other games in the compilation do not mesh with the original game in several points -- Genesis being the most prominent of these. For example, he shows up in the Nibel Reactor scene in CC, but he is obviously not there in the original game. For the purpose of staying true to the game and making clear all the points therein, I chose to ignore all the inconsistencies from the rest of the Compilation.

As HighwindPilot has detailed, all the evidence for everything in the post can indeed be found in the game, and his post beautifully points out where and when in the game it can be found. I know that many people have already previously created a very certain interpretation on the plot of this game and may not agree with what is in the original post, but that is only to be expected. I used only the evidence in the game and script and a little problem-solving, making my long explanation the most accurate one that I know of on the internet. Whether you choose to believe it or not is up to you.

Thank you. :)
 
Dragon Mage said:
As for the Crises Core reference, I specifically said that I only used the original game (and a little from the movie) when making this post. It is also fairly well-known that other games in the compilation do not mesh with the original game in several points -- Genesis being the most prominent of these. For example, he shows up in the Nibel Reactor scene in CC, but he is obviously not there in the original game. For the purpose of staying true to the game and making clear all the points therein, I chose to ignore all the inconsistencies from the rest of the Compilation.


Thank you. :)
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Cloud does not see Genesis, thus there is no Genesis to see in the flashback. These memories you see are mixed from speculation and stories from Zack (who has never told cloud about angeal and genesis anyway, not fact but it seems to be clear), which was very well done on their part as Cloud does not see either of them.

I do however stand corrected on the whole jenova cells thing, based on the poor source I was reading through earlier, so I will apologise.

15 - 10 B.G.:

  • Hojo performs experiments using cells from the body of JENOVA. He infuses Shinra soldiers with JENOVA cells. The results are staggering - those who are infected have strength and skills far beyond normal persons. Based on these results, Shinra forms SOLDIER, a program designed to use and train an elite military force by infusing subjects with Mako and JENOVA cells. [FF7]
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Still not sure if it is 100% right though as I do not see the point of Hojo infecting someone who already has obtained Jenova cells (aka Zack)

There are just some inconsistencies but as you have said, you've only gathered this from the main game only, so I apologise for commenting (not sure on how I missed that part, but oh well!)

Vincent Valentine is actually a vessel for Chaos himself (not Chaos cells)
 
The point of Genesis is one very hotly debatable -- he was never conceived of as a character until a few years ago, so how could he possibly appear in the original game more than a decade ago? It's problems like these that I just chose to ignore him entirely. :\

Also, it wasn't Hojo himself that injected Zack with more Jenova cells -- it was just some lab assistant that was monitoring the experiment on the Nibelhiem survivors. If they had known Zack was a SOLDIER they probably wouldn't have made such a mistake -- and it was that mistake which allowed them to escape. So it is conceivable that they'd try to inject J-cells in Zack and not know about it. The lab tech was just uninformed, and not too bright.

No harm done, btw. Some people have played CC first, then DoC, watched AC and THEN played the game, so the order gets mixed up very easily. The opinions/interpretations one gains on the game is heavily influenced by the order you play the compilation, so it's to be expected. :3

Ah, you may be right about the Chaos thing. I only played DoC once, and forgot what they called it exactly. Oh well. Needless to say, the element of "chaos" was transferred to Vincent (that's what Hojo called it) allowing him to shapeshift. In this case, Chaos is both the name of a gene and an entity.

Confusing names are confusing. :P
 
Bloody hell that was a read and a half!

Eitherway, well done, Dragon Mage. Although it does kinda baffle me why you posted such an extensive post about the complete storyline, lol.
 
Lol thank you! I'm glad you liked it!

Well, I was really bored to be honest. And I've always wanted to post a megapost explaining it since so many people have questions about it. There's so much in the plot that if you get one point wrong, everything else is wrong as well, like a cascade failure. Since I had time on my hands and I know so much about it, I figured what the hell? Let's write it. :P
 
Yeah, i can see the effort you put into writing it all into chronological order! lol

Did you do this also because it's the only FF with sequels and prequels?
 
Got some questions Dragon Mage.

I thought that it was Cloud who killed everybody in the Shrina Bldg. If you follow the trail of blood it starts out in Cloud's jail cell and then ends where President Shrina was killed. If it was Jenova being controlled by Sephiroth, then why does it kill everybody around Hojo's testing lab, kill Shrina, and then stop at Cloud and Tifa's jail cell ?

Why doesn't Jenova kill Cloud when he was in prison. She could of killed Cloud and Tifa right there, while they were sleeping ? Why did Sephiroth not kill Cloud there ? Was it because he wanted sweet revenge for Cloud stabbing him and killing him in Nibelhiem ?
What ?

If you think it sounds laughable about the theory that Cloud killed everybody in the Shrina Bldg, look how he easily he was controlled in the Temple of the Ancients, Northern Crater and he almost killed Aerith himself because of Sephiroth's control. Sephiroth could of easily used him like a puppet to free Jenova and wipe off any threat that stops Jenova from being freed.

 
@Paradise

The answer to your question is rather simple: Plot.

I know, this is kind of ignoring the "in-game" mechanics, but you have to ultimately realize that the game is just that -- a game. If the characters had been killed in the Shinra building, there would be no story. So, quite simply, they were somehow overlooked when Sephiroth-via-Jenova killed everyone in the building.

I know it was Sephiroth that killed everyone and not Cloud for a few reasons. One, Cloud could not get out of the room. It's a prison cell and built for dangerous specimens, probably even SOLDIER's, so those things were solidly built. If Cloud could get out at any time, he'd have done it earlier.

Second, no one woke up, not even Tifa. If Cloud did break out, it would've made some noise at the very least -- but he didn't break out. The door was standing wide open, unforced, and undamaged. If Cloud had to break out, don't you think it would've at least made some noise, damaged the door? He isn't psychic, so the only way he could've broken out is physically, and that would've made some noise and damaged the door, neither of which we see evidence of in the game.

Third, only the soldiers outside were dead. They must've tried to shoot or kill whatever it was they saw and thus why they were killed. Sephiroth had one ultimate goal when he made his move with Jenova's body, and that was to kill the President. Why bother checking the prison cells at all? He had no idea Cloud and Co. were there, so they literally just lucked out that he didn't know they were there.

Fourth, the mako tank that was holding Jenova's body was ripped apart and the ragged ends bent outward, as if something had forced it's way OUT. That can only mean that Jenova's body shapeshifted to look like Sephiroth -- clothes and all -- then punched through the tank metal and went on a rampage.

Fifth, there are survivors in the building and some of them say, "Sephiroth.... Sephiroth did this." Also, Palmer says that he saw Sephiroth kill the President.

All of this together leads me to believe that Cloud did not kill the people in the building and that it was in fact Jenova's body shapeshifted to appear like Sephiroth that truly massacred everyone.

Also, please check the first post again. I've already established that Sephiroth DID NOT CONTROL CLOUD'S MIND. Whatsoever. He manipulated and lied and preyed upon Cloud's weaknesses, but he never controlled Cloud's mind.

Hope this answer's your question satisfactorily!
 
Thankyou DragonMage. Lol I forgot about the survivors saying that they saw Sephiroth. I think I need to play the game again. :hmmm:
 
Truly an amazing culmination of information throughout the game. I admit that there were many holes filled in for me as to what happened and what the deal was. Especially the part about Sephiroth controlling Jenova's body. And it makes perfect sense. In fact I couldn't see it any other way. I mean, if Jenova's cells come together and Sephiroth has them yet he is living as to where Jenova isn't, I'd say that pretty much sums it all up for me. Thanks for the clarification.
 
:yay: Thank you, SFC! I'm glad it filled in so many holes for you. It's always a pleasure to know I succeeded in my endeavor to totally and completely answer any questions about the plot with that post. ^_^
 
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