Education and Employment: Do they go hand-in-hand?

[OmniscientOnus]

I had an English teacher who used to staple Burger King applications to all failed tests, quizzes, and the like.

I would like to hear your theories on how education and employment relate from a current time standpoint. Is education becoming more and more necessary for the average person to find employment at a decent wage?

If McDonald's now requires you to either be currently enrolled in, or graduated from (I don't know if GED's count) high school, who could be next? Are we seeing an economy that's already headed downhill ready to reject willing and capable employees just because they did not finish their primary education?

Note: This topic is not about the past, present, or future economic state. It is about how amount of education and employment relate to one another.

 

[Lady Cazzeh]

To be honest, in my opinion, formal education reflects often too much on a persons suitability for a job.

An older more mature person in their late 40's early 50's for instance, may not posess the relevant academic qualifications, but yet, posess a wealth of real life practical experience which would make them the most suitable candidate.

I didnt finish my primary education through my own stupid choices, yet, in the years since I left school, I've learnt a lot. However, because of my lack of primary education, people just arent interested.

 

[SapphireStar]

Your teacher should be ashamed of themselves for doing that. I didnt get my first job till I was 17 and in college. I have poor GCSE results, but Ive still been employed. As long as I speak english and understand what Im doing, I dont think employers take my results into account.

 

[Jack's Smirking Revenge]

I have a number of friends who all didn't get excellent results in their GCSE's, but have still managed to get a very well-paid job.
It does seem that the better paid jobs are only open to those with a better education though (i.e. a degree) which I think is only fair. Those people who painstakingly go through another 3 years in university deserve to get a high paying job, and those who couldn't care less and efectively dropped out deserve their jobs at Burger King etc. I think that was a very good idea of your teacher's. Hopefully it kicked those people with a fail up the arse and made them really realise all their potential will be

 

[QuickSilverD]

I had an English teacher who used to staple Burger King applications to all failed tests, quizzes, and the like.

I would like to hear your theories on how education and employment relate from a current time standpoint. Is education becoming more and more necessary for the average person to find employment at a decent wage?

If McDonald's now requires you to either be currently enrolled in, or graduated from (I don't know if GED's count) high school, who could be next? Are we seeing an economy that's already headed downhill ready to reject willing and capable employees just because they did not finish their primary education?

Note: This topic is not about the past, present, or future economic state. It is about how amount of education and employment relate to one another.

I could have swear that I had already posted in this thread, uhmp.

We all know that the world of today is incredible competitive, the problem is that there is too many people that can do X job so companies are no longer limited to just hire anyone who walks through their doors, now they can select and choose from the dozens, hundreds or thousands of application they get, and of course they would rather have the best of the best than the "just ok". so this creates a necessity for people to be well prepare, to have good grades, to go to a good university, to archive the title of "Summa Cum Laude" (for those of you who don't speak latin it refers to the greatest honor one can archive in uni)and all that stuff.

So yes, education is reated to having a good job , it is even more important than having a family member in a high position in the government

 

[OmniscientOnus]

I could have swear that I had already posted in this thread, uhmp.

We all know that the world of today is incredible competitive, the problem is that there is too many people that can do X job so companies are no longer limited to just hire anyone who walks through their doors, now they can select and choose from the dozens, hundreds or thousands of application they get, and of course they would rather have the best of the best than the "just ok". so this creates a necessity for people to be well prepare, to have good grades, to go to a good university, to archive the title of "Summa Cum Laude" (for those of you who don't speak latin it refers to the greatest honor one can archive in uni)and all that stuff.

So yes, education is reated to having a good job , it is even more important than having a family member in a high position in the government

Very well said. I completely agree. The population is ever increasing which means more and more people are available to do the work, and of course an employer would rather take the guy who chose to further his education. What I don't like about this, however, is that employers are assuming that furthering your education is always going to make you a better employee.

When you think about it, the typical person in a university or college, goes for at least two years. Imagine how much on-the-job training you could get in that time. Not to mention the training you would get would be 100% representative of the work you would be doing. In other words, you don't have to waste time training in biology if you're going to run a machine as your career, and you don't have to waste your time learning European history if your going to be a computer engineer.

I'm not saying that continuing your education is a waste, I'm saying that you wouldn't be applying that particular knowledge to that job, and therefore, from a companies perspective, that is wasted knowledge.

I, for example, work in a shop. I build tools, jigs, fixtures, assembly lines, etc... that make fighter jets, helicopters, and other things that fly, for the government. Everyday I am surrounded by blueprints of tools that were designed by engineers, and it is far too often very obvious that some kid fresh out of school who had never built a tool in his life is the one designing these things.

Think about it. If you've ever flown in an aircraft, this kind of guy probably designed the tools that make it, and probably the aircraft itself. Is this really the guy you want designing the objects that fly at numerous times the speed of sound, the things that help protect our country, the things that carry you and your loved ones around? I wish I could show you a couple of examples of just how bad these things are. When I (and I've only been doing this for about a year) can spot flaws on these tools literally moments after I start looking at them, how can we feel safe riding around in the planes that they create? Now, granted, us builders do our absolute best to fix any and all problems we see, and we have extensive quality assurance programs out there to ensure that these things don't come plummeting out of the sky every time they hit a little turbulence, but the idea remains valid.

Schooling didn't help these kids learn how to design. It helped them use the programs that they run to create 3D models of what they want to build.

I know that this isn't always the case. Lots of companies like their employees to be diversified so that they can grow within the company. If someone comes in who has background in say, mathematics, they may be able to move from a secretary to a manager. If they also have a little psychology under their belt, maybe it would help ease them into a position of public relations. I know that being diversified and educated really can, and essentially does, make you a better employee, but employers need to realize that being educated isn't always necessary.

It makes sense as a business owner to take an at least some, if not mostly, fairly uneducated (by uneducated I am referring to people who haven't gone to a university or college. I know going doesn't necessarily make you smarter, but the wording is sure a lot easier on me for typing purposes) people. An educated person feels that they deserve a better job than an uneducated person, and therefore will demand to move up eventually, and will probably quit when they are refused. You can only have so many people in managerial positions after all. Thus, you are destroying your own work base. However, an uneducated person will most likely just be happy to have work, and will often do more menial tasks for a longer period of time with less fuss.

I have too many ideas on this subject. I'm going to stop here and let other people's opinions spark me to talk on one particular issue at a time instead of writing a 1,000 page essay right from the get-go.

Those people who painstakingly go through another 3 years in university deserve to get a high paying job, and those who couldn't care less and efectively dropped out deserve their jobs at Burger King etc.

From this quote alone I can pretty safely assume two things about you. One is that you probably graduated from a facility of higher learning, and two... well two isn't so nice.

First of all, graduating from college or a university doesn't necessarily have to be difficult. You can take psychology, for example, and rarely have to learn a thing. Most of the time you can bullshit your way out of any issue because psychology is based more on theories and ideas than actual facts. Also, depending on the facility you go to learn at, some are just easier than others. With the right teachers (which, if you're smart about it, you can often choose your major around the classes on which one easy teacher teaches multiple classes in, and most of the time you can actually request to be in his/her class) and the right major, any idiot could fly by without much thought or effort.

You might also be surprised at the tricks people use to get through college. I've known of a few people who have paid other people to go for them, using their name. No one's DNA testing you after all. The paid person goes to all the classes, does all the work, and more often than not, no one is the wiser. I don't know if this part is true, but I've heard of a guy making a living that way.

Not everyone who doesn't further their education "couldn't care less" either. Lots of people plain out can't afford it. Others have kids and need to keep a full time job in order to keep insurance for them, and then after work need to babysit so the other parent can go to work. There are lots of reasons out there why people don't go to school. As a matter of fact, I'd be willing to wager that most people who didn't continue their education did in fact care; and probably cared a lot.

 

[Davey Gaga]

Do education and employment go hand-in-hand? To a certain extent, yes, I think so. Since I am not yet in College or University, but instead in High School, from this point onwards in my post, it can be safely assumed that I am talking about High School whenever I say "Education" [unless stated otherwise].

School generally prepares you for entering the real world; the world of jobs, money, taxes, houses and more taxes. To get a job as, say, a Doctor, you're going to have to have the necessary qualifications, such as Biology, Chemistry and Maths. In my view, school serves as an introduction to life - an introduction to how life will be like in future.

If I was an employer in a firm, for example, a workshop, I would not likely employ someone who does not have a qualification in Craft and Design, or Wood/Metal work. In the same manner, if I was interviewing applicants for a job in a hospital, I'm not going to employ someone who has little to no qualifications, none of them being relevant to the occupation.

So, yes, school is one end of the road. The other end of the road is the workplace itself - but how do you get to the other end of the road? Well, you get to a Zebra Crossing and get across safely. In terms or reality, the Zebra Crossing could be College or University. Frankly, I'm desperate to head off out of school, and here's where my criticism of school begins.

School is unrealistic. I find that it fails in properly preparing you for the real world due to the lack of realistic situations. Take, for example, exams at school. You're not allowed to make even the slightest noise; you're not allowed to ask the invigilator to elaborate on a question; you're not allowed any help whatsoever, even from notes. When in the real world, what would you do if you didn't know the answer to a question? You'd ask someone; you'd read up on it; you'd get help. If you lost a pencil, would you really be sacked from your job, or given formal warnings? No, you'd be given one. In school, if you forget a pencil, you get a punishment exercise to be completed, which goes on a record. For goodness sake, I find that ridiculous.

Sometimes I feel as though I want to break free from the chains of school and just head off to University right now and study 'X.' If I go ahead and decide to be a music teacher, why in good grief am I wasting my time learning about Trigonomatry, Pythagoras, Ionic Bonding and Biotechnology? It's totally unrealistic and it really annoys me. When I think about becoming a Vet, I wonder if the University's will allow me in because I get a B, which was caused because I incorrectly stated the difference between an Entrepreneur and a Businessman, or something to that effect.

 

[Angel Valentine]

School is unrealistic. I find that it fails in properly preparing you for the real world due to the lack of realistic situations. Take, for example, exams at school. You're not allowed to make even the slightest noise; you're not allowed to ask the invigilator to elaborate on a question; you're not allowed any help whatsoever, even from notes. When in the real world, what would you do if you didn't know the answer to a question? You'd ask someone; you'd read up on it; you'd get help. If you lost a pencil, would you really be sacked from your job, or given formal warnings? No, you'd be given one. In school, if you forget a pencil, you get a punishment exercise to be completed, which goes on a record. For goodness sake, I find that ridiculous.

I agree with that 100%. I've been saying shit like that for years and no one around here agrees with me.

I don't believe just cause you have a degree will ensure you to get a job though. It was on the news the other day here, how people just recently graduating from college or universities, weren't able to find work. And how it seems to be happening more and more.

Most places of employment like fast food places, grocery stores, video stores, etc...accept GED's just as if they were high school diploma's and there are more places that you think that accept them as well. A high school education by itself doesn't really mean to much, and hasn't for quite some time (unless you get lucky). And even if you have a GED, doesn't mean you can't go to college at all. Almost all community colleges accept GED's, and don't treat people with them any different than if they had a high school diploma.

I had an English teacher who used to staple Burger King applications to all failed tests, quizzes, and the like.

That's complete bullshit. Cause in the real world, people still fail. 'Higher up' people with degrees and experience, still fail. I guess what that teacher was trying to tell his/her students was that as soon as you fail once, you better quit and go to Burger King.

First of all, graduating from college or a university doesn't necessarily have to be difficult. You can take psychology, for example, and rarely have to learn a thing. Most of the time you can bullshit your way out of any issue because psychology is based more on theories and ideas than actual facts. Also, depending on the facility you go to learn at, some are just easier than others. With the right teachers (which, if you're smart about it, you can often choose your major around the classes on which one easy teacher teaches multiple classes in, and most of the time you can actually request to be in his/her class) and the right major, any idiot could fly by without much thought or effort.

You might also be surprised at the tricks people use to get through college. I've known of a few people who have paid other people to go for them, using their name. No one's DNA testing you after all. The paid person goes to all the classes, does all the work, and more often than not, no one is the wiser. I don't know if this part is true, but I've heard of a guy making a living that way.

Not everyone who doesn't further their education "couldn't care less" either. Lots of people plain out can't afford it. Others have kids and need to keep a full time job in order to keep insurance for them, and then after work need to babysit so the other parent can go to work. There are lots of reasons out there why people don't go to school. As a matter of fact, I'd be willing to wager that most people who didn't continue their education did in fact care; and probably cared a lot.

Exactly. That's why I find it laughable sometimes when people talk about how hard college for everyone is. There are people that do go through college the right way, and learn everything they can and are really a top notch student.

But there's also that huge percentage of people that go to college simply as an excuse to party (and no, contrary to popular belief, it doesn't just happen in America). Most colleges and universities don't even take attendance, and it doesn't matter if you even show up half the time. A friend of mine attended all his classes, but paid someone else to write all his papers for him. The papers were almost always perfect, and I think he did the same thing with his homework. So even if he tanked a test, it usually didn't matter to much since his homework and paper grades were so high.

I can pull up about 50 sites right now, dedicated to writing papers for students. I'm not above it myself though. I'm knowledgeable when it comes to English, History, Psychology and the like, but you start talking about Math and Science and I'm almost borderline retarded. So, my friend does all my math homework for me, and gives me most answers for math tests (since she took it the semester before me) and I write her English papers for her. We're both making A's.

 

[OmniscientOnus]

That's complete bullshit. Cause in the real world, people still fail. 'Higher up' people with degrees and experience, still fail. I guess what that teacher was trying to tell his/her students was that as soon as you fail once, you better quit and go to Burger King.

If you knew the teacher I think you would think differently about it. He wasn't in asshole, and he wasn't trying to say that failing once was going to make you a failure. In fact, he dedicated nearly 100% of his time to help kids (like me) who were failing to do better. Granted, he seemed a little frustrated when he realized that I not only wasn't failing because I wasn't capable, but that I should have actually been in his honor's English class. But, all in all, he really did want to help people out.

Basically he was just trying to get the message out there to the people who didn't care that, as he always said, "If you don't take school seriously enough to at least get through it, not even McDonald's will want you."

 

[Holic]

wooow. All the posts are so long.

Of course it matters. Depending on where you're going though, they may just like the fact you have a degree. Sometimes a degree is just a piece of paper and all employers are looking for is someone that qualifies. But The others above stated it well that there are more and more qualified peole that can do this job or that job so why not pick the best. Is it always best to pick purely by academics or even by just experience. Not really, but it happens.

 

[Link21]

That is pretty fucked up in my oppinion that your teacher would staple those aplications to people's test's who have failed. I have many friends whose parents never went to college and have decent jobs.

Back in earlier times, you didn't need a great education to become a successful business person. But yes, I believe that nowdays and later in the future you will need a degree for almost any job. You will probably need a 2 year degree to work at McDonalds in the future.

Already in the Middle-East/East you need a 4 year degree to work in a call center. But really, it doesn't matter. You can still become very rich and successful, think about about all the famous movie directors that dropped out of High-School and became big name Hollywood people.

 

[Dalton]

You can still become very rich and successful, think about about all the famous movie directors that dropped out of High-School and became big name Hollywood people.

Thinking like this is setting yourself up for failure. Everyone knows Bill Gates dropped out of college and he's like the richest person in the world, right? Einstein didn't even finish high school and look how he ended up! The unfortunately reality, though, is that those people were special. Not special in the sense that everyone is a unique snow flake with their very own personality, but special in that they were historical anomalies. For everyone who drops out of highschool and becomes a rich, powerful, successful person, there are thousands and thousands more who wind up at Burger King or living in a trailer somewhere. If you decide to forgo the right of passage that is formal education, you're a lot more likely to end up in poverty than Beverly Hills. Is it possible you'll lead the same successful life? Sure. It's also possible to win the lottery, or to have a bag full of money fall out of the sky and land in front of you. Luck is a nice thing to have, but you can't rely on it.

Along the same lines, higher education is an investment, and like any investment, it is all about risk versus reward. You put in money and time, and in doing so you increase your likelihood of becoming successful. Sure everyone has that chance, but with every class you attend, every degree you earn, that chance becomes greater.

Are education and employment related? Well for some careers the answer is a really easy yes; I can pretty much guarantee the engineering firm I'm interning at has never hired an engineer without a degree. The same goes for doctors, or lawyers, or this, or that. Some jobs are easy like that; if you don't have a degree, hit the road.

Some jobs are a little grayer: say you need to hire manager at a department store. One candidate has a business degree, and another one has more relevant work experience. The two choices are probably pretty even, and it might come down to some other factors.

Then you look at something like a fireman or policeman or post man. A degree isn't going to do you any good at all, because what those jobs are looking for are attitudes and personalities more than anything.


Can you get a job without a formal education? Of course. You may just have to try harder, and you'll have fewer choices. That is what a higher education really gives you; choices, and chances. Nothing is guaranteed, but success becomes a hell of a lot more likely because of it.

 

[Angel Valentine]

If you knew the teacher I think you would think differently about it. He wasn't in asshole, and he wasn't trying to say that failing once was going to make you a failure. In fact, he dedicated nearly 100% of his time to help kids (like me) who were failing to do better. Granted, he seemed a little frustrated when he realized that I not only wasn't failing because I wasn't capable, but that I should have actually been in his honor's English class. But, all in all, he really did want to help people out.

lol That sounds a little different then what was said in the first post. I can understand that a little more then.

 

[Clyde]

My opinion... i think employment should be based on someones willingness to learn and the motivation.

Alot of people who didnt get good marks at school are knowledgeable in the real world stuff and would do well in a job the WANtT to do, not what they HAVE to do.

School makes you HAVE to do things. If you want to do something, you'd be good. Just like playing final fantasy... most of us here are good at it or want to be good at it. Thats because we have motivation and have a genuine interest in the series. Some people simply suck at itbecause they hate it or whatever... but thats my thoughts

I'm not saying education is a bad thing. In fact its a good thing but it's not everything because a well educated person could be a sad person with no life studying 24/7 lol... There are many factors in this subject...

 

[Johnny Mo]

If two different people came for the same job say shop assistant. person1 did not finnish his compuslary education. While person2 has finnish their education. Who are you going to hire remembering money is involved. I know whod id hire .
You can beat around the bush but in a tertary econamy (buying and selling) this is what it boils down too. Whilst in a secondary econamy (industry) it boils down too whos more skilled. and in primary (production of raw materials) whos strongest.