FFVII: LTD Debate Thread

[Serah]

So it was decided that we go ahead and create a thread in regards to the LTD debate. This thread is open for any type of debating when it comes to the Love Triangle of FFVII. You can discuss from who Cloud was in love with the did Aerith really have feelings for Zack, etc...

I am going to put up a couple rules though in regards to this and this thread will be kept on watch to make for certain that there isn't any rule breaking in regards to the LTD.

1. Please please do not start flame wars because one person may enjoy one pairing over another. It's not right and then you get everyone fightning. Any insulting or flaming will result in verbal warning or infraction.

2. Keep an open mind. Allow the person to post their reasonings and please don't bash them for what they may feel, despite whether something may be canon or not. Don't be condescending.

3. Please do NOT post LTD threads down in the main part of the forum. That's what this is for! If we see any threads made, they will be closed and archived.

This is all I ask for in this thread. Now, ready, set debate!

 

[Howl]

uhhh...mmmm....
You can delete my post now after you see what an oopsie we both just made. ^.^

 

[Serah]

lol Rhea, I just noticed that. I'm so sorry! I went ahead and just archived it. I thought you had left my apologies.

 

[Rydia]

Maybe we should have someone who is neutral towards both pairings moderate this thread?

Also guys, please don't bash the character you don't like/don't think Cloud loved. Not only is this a good way to start a nasty flame war and deviate everyone from the original topic, it really doesn't help prove you point and only makes it look like you are getting desparate to prove that your pairing is in fact cannon. And you'll probably come off a bit ignorant which will not help convince the other side of your opinions.

 

[Big Boss]

Fuck 'em. Cloud was gay with Seph, I think.

And here is why I think as such, Cloud was always a little sissy who did what Sephiroth said, like.. Giving him the black materia. Cloud would've given it to Tifa or Aerith (whichever he 'loves'), but no. And the crater part doesn't count because.. it's also gay with Cloud and Sephy.

 

[Serah]

Rydia, good idea I'm pretty neutral so I'll keep an eye out, you can as well if you'd like. Hinds, I seriously just rofl'd at that.

 

[Dragon Mage]

Actually, I'm kinda glad that this thread is so inactive!

I'll just state that I'm a Clifa ultimate. Whatever any Clerith says otherwise won't convince me, and I'm purdy darn sure I ain't gonna convince them.

So, with that being said, I won't even try to debate. No point. I won't really post, unless I want to correct a few glaring errors. But that's it. I've been through so many LTD's it's just not fun any more.

So how's this as an alternative? How about we Clifa's and you Clerith's make up your own ending? Heck, maybe you can post them here and debate over if the chars would really act that way. Hone your writing skills a bit, lol. That's how the LT was supposed to be anyways: you make up the ending. Sadly, it's only been raging LT wars.

I, however, am content with my own ending. I think everyone should be as well. Much better ending then what we have now. Maybe this way, we'll never have need of LTD threads.

 

[Howl]

I'm not a 'faithful supporter' of either of the two pairings. I think that Cloud is perfectly compatible with either Tifa or Aeris.

The way I see it...
Aeris and Cloud share a very friendly and outgoing relationship. She sort of drags him into her world with her free-spirited charm. I see Aeris in a very innocent light; but there's more than meats the eye. She's a very selfless and bold individual who's willing to go to great lengths for good reasons. It seems to me as if Cloud adopts some of these good attributes from her. The way I see it, Cloud's affection towards Aeris arises from his admiration towards her.

Tifa and Cloud share a strong and steady bond. Tifa casts a very motherly light over Cloud. She's his secret stronghold, his shoulder to lean on, and his most faithful friend. Her motherly connection with Cloud is very conformed and fitting. Their relationship, however, is very introverted and modest. Neither Cloud nor Tifa are the outspoken types to spill their feelings towards others. The way I see it, Cloud's affection towards Tifa arises from his appreciation towards her.

 

[Dragon Mage]

Oi, I agree completely, accept for the motherly thing..... but that's just me. Besides, Aerith and Tifa are best friends, right? That's because they're both very much alike. That means their personalitys are also very similar. So when you look at it, either one is perfectly compatible with Cloud. (Caith Sith can BITE me).

 

[Bambi]

I think Cloud originally really liked Tifa (when he was young) then he left to join SOLDIER, got himself mixed up in all ther kerfuffle with Zack & whatnot, but towards the end - or at least when Aeris died, I believe he had strong feelings - perhaps love - for her. Tifa always seemed to be jelous aswel so she OBVIOUSLY had a thing for him. As for Zack, he was Aeris' first love and she saw traits in Cloud that reminded her of him and at first thats prolly why he appealed to her. But I think, ultimately, she DID love Cloud as it had been a good while since Zack had dissapeared on her anyway - I think Cloud just stirred up old emotions. Well thats what I like to think anyway

 

[Maleficent]

Cloud and Tifa were child hood friends. The way I see it, that's all there ever was.

Of course Aerith had feelings for Zack, that was her boyfriend. Then along came Cloud, who reminded Aerith of Zack. Aerith was intrigued by Cloud, because not much was known about him. I think if she lived, they would of been together.

Aerith was such a free spirit, and Cloud was a lost soul. They would of been perfect together

 

[Dragon Mage]

See, it's posts like the one above that truly get to me. It's the way people simply brush off everything that happened between chars in one simple sentence, namely the first one in the previous post.

They throw in a few 'facts', all based on their own opinion/view, then draw a completely baseless statement from it.

Since this is a debate thread, I would like to show all how one would refute/argue against such a post. Maleficient, maybe you can use my post here to help you modify and reinforce your argument, thus making it stronger and able to stand up in a true debate without being bombarded by opposition.

Were I really feeling like debating, I would ask "How is Cloud a lost soul?" Give me some kind of inkling at what you're getting at here. It's simply too vague. Also, how is Aerith a free spirit? (btw, I personally wouldn't use that term. It has other meanings that others would use against you.....just an fyi). Once you've laid that out, explain how this would make them perfect for each other.

I don't think there's a real need to explain the whole relationship b/w Aerith and Zack. It's a love triangle not a love square. You shouldn't have to explain it, and if people bring it up, well you know you're just smarter and can afford to ignore them.

Next, now this a is a big step, you must explain clearly how Cloud and Tifa were only 'friends'. As a Clifa myself, I can think of many things of where their relationship seems to be anything but mere 'friends'. Also, you've made another common mistake, which no one can blame you for, but Cloud and Tifa were not childhood friends. They actually didn't know each other that well.

You see, these are things that you really have to think about. Also keep in mind that you cannot 'ignore' all evidence the oppostition presents. You must concede that, indeed, this is possible or this is possible etc. etc. But then explain how you percieve it. That's what this debate is really about.

So, with this in mind, you can start to forge a truly good post that's not offensive and states your opinion clearly with little room for opposition.

May you post well!

 

[Daenerys]

I don't think there's a real need to explain the whole relationship b/w Aerith and Zack. It's a love triangle not a love square.

Exactly, It's pretty clear that Aerith loves Cloud, for Cloud not just because of Zack, although his similarity to Zack is what initially attracts her to him, she sees the real Cloud persona and falls in love with that.

There is strong evidence for both girls, weak evidence for both girls, batshit crazy evidence, and ridiculous excuses for why some of the more obvious pieces of evidences aren't accepted.

There are a few peices of "evidence" and debating lines that bug the hell outta me.

1. Aerith is dead, so Cloud HAS to Love Tifa.

Would you stop loving your parents if they died? Would you stop loving your husband/Wife if they died? No, you wouldn't, you wouldn't move onto the next person who showed some interest in you either. Cloud can (and from my viewpoint of the LTD, does) carry on loving Aerith, and - as shown in AC - since it is plausible for them to meet and talk to each other, he still has some form of emotional contact with her, and doesn't have to give it up or pursue a relationship with anyone else.

2. Tifa was Clouds childhood friend.

I really can't agree with that line, shown in Clouds flashback Tifa was Queen of the Clique and had no time for Cloud, he's even blamed for Tifa falling into a coma, and is forbidden from seeing her again.

3. OMFG Aerith is hawter than Tifa! Tifa has the B00borz! Tifa Can kick Aeriths ass! Aerith can Kick Tifas butt!...and so on.

All of these are things that silly fanboys attempt to bring into an LTD, which is totally irrelevant, Their skills in battle and their looks mean nothing to whom Cloud loves.

4. Tifa is a slut!

See number 3. And, just because Tifa might dress a little sluttish, it doesn't make her one.

5. Aerith is a Homewrecker / Hippie!

For her to "wreck a home" there has to be a home for her to wreck, and in FFVII, there is no way Tifa and Cloud can be described as living together. As for her being a hippie, most of the main characters in FFVII are hippies since they want to "save the world and stop pollution" and all that, and again, see number 3.


More later...as i'm basing this post on next-to-none replies.

 

[Bambi]

I recently read the maiden who travels the planet (fanx moonchild for the link) Iv no idea wether it's fan based or not but that kinda confirms that Aeris loved Cloud for Cloud and that's how I see it aswel

 

[Daenerys]

It's not fanbased, it was written by someone connected to the team and has been accepted by all the FFVII staff as canon

 

[Bambi]

Ahhhhh thanks, so then, Aeris loves Cloud for who he is nuff said lol

 

[Daenerys]

Yes i agree with that. Aerith and Cloud seem to have a more romantic vibe than Cloud and Tifa, and they have the whole "tragic love" thing going for them, which i adore

In my opinion, cloud and Tifa are more like siblings, they look out for one another, care for one another, yet they don't reveal any of their intermost thoughts and feelings to each other, Cloud never told Tifa he had the Stigma, while Tifa hasn't ever told Cloud how she feels for him. They've known each other for years and years, and yet theres been no romantic progression between the two.

 

[ChocoBongo]

Exactly, It's pretty clear that Aerith loves Cloud, for Cloud not just because of Zack, although his similarity to Zack is what initially attracts her to him, she sees the real Cloud persona and falls in love with that.

Not according to Maiden. The Cloud Aeris loves is the one built from Zack who she thinks is the real Cloud. It's not till she's dead does she realise the Cloud she romantically loved was the Cloud who was based on false memories and ideologies induced from strong JENOVA influences and a desire to be a hero like Zack. She does love the real Cloud, but from this point on her love seems to be that of a protective guardian or a mother for her children; a purer unearthly love, not a romantic one.

I agree its important that people understand that Aeris knows the real Cloud, but if we take Maiden as canon - which that alone is dubious as Ultimania has made no reference to it in its compendeum of character releavant information - the whole point of the story is Aeris as a protagonist who shifts from her initial earthy romantic love for Cloud to one of a larger, altruistic, pure, unselfish love.

1. Aerith is dead, so Cloud HAS to Love Tifa.

Would you stop loving your parents if they died? Would you stop loving your husband/Wife if they died? No, you wouldn't, you wouldn't move onto the next person who showed some interest in you either. Cloud can (and from my viewpoint of the LTD, does) carry on loving Aerith, and - as shown in AC - since it is plausible for them to meet and talk to each other, he still has some form of emotional contact with her, and doesn't have to give it up or pursue a relationship with anyone else.

I think he can love Aeris, I agree, I think if we are looking at breaking down misconceptions, it doesn't mean he does love Aeris in a romantic sense - and Ultimania makes it pretty clear there is no definitive romantic slant to Cloud's feelings by clarifying he neither reconginizes either Tifa or Aeris' affections on disk one, that he taking on Zack's attributes, and he is heavily influenced by JENOVA - which all makes any pure romantic feelings rather difficult to justify! Given that we also now know that Aeris wears pink in memory - or even hope - of Zack's return, and suddenly the whole idea of "romantic" love starts to weaken; Cloud isn't in a position to give love and Aeris' feelings are - at this point - carried over from her feelings for Zack, which she sees in Cloud.

So I agree, the notion that because Aeris is dead, Cloud HAS to be with Tifa is a silly one, but not for the same reason. Cloud is with Tifa because she's always been his world - and when his personality and memory return, she is his world once more.

If you are suggesting he can romantically love both, like a man can love his second wife and his dead one, that's a rational observation, but doesn't really tie in with FF7 since there is a) no definitive evidence of romance from Cloud to Aeris and b) the time frame for the who FF7 is very short for a romantic adventure - the whole thing - from start to finish is in 6 weeks according to Ultimania, certainly not as long as I expected!

2. Tifa was Clouds childhood friend.

I really can't agree with that line, shown in Clouds flashback Tifa was Queen of the Clique and had no time for Cloud, he's even blamed for Tifa falling into a coma, and is forbidden from seeing her again.

I agree. It's just a simple description in an instruction manual to give the audience a flavour of their connection as FF7 starts. She and he knew each other in their childhood, ergo, childhood friend.

I do find it funny however, how the rational and valid point you make is often used to disprove Cloud and Tifa by the fact it was lazily added to the DoC manual - thereby proving they are not in a relationship but still childhood friends, despite the same people being very quick to dismiss their childhood friendship on the rational you offer. Of course, the fact that DOC manual also still calls Cloud ex-SOLDIER doesn't really show how lazily the manual details are ported for minor characters.

3. OMFG Aerith is hawter than Tifa! Tifa has the B00borz! Tifa Can kick Aeriths ass! Aerith can Kick Tifas butt!...and so on.

All of these are things that silly fanboys attempt to bring into an LTD, which is totally irrelevant, Their skills in battle and their looks mean nothing to whom Cloud loves.

Absolutely!

4. Tifa is a slut!

See number 3. And, just because Tifa might dress a little sluttish, it doesn't make her one.

Absolutely. And just because Aeris wears pink and picks flowers doesn't make her independent and pretty forward in her relationships (forward doesn't mean sluttish BTW, just very open about what she feels).

Though the slut angle has made a return in some circles given Nomura's confirmation that the "Under the Highwind" scene had sexual intent, and I know a few people of Cleris and Cloti persuasion have shown a lack of empathy into the reasons why they'd sleep together before Armageddon to pronounce such as slutty.

5. Aerith is a Homewrecker / Hippie!

For her to "wreck a home" there has to be a home for her to wreck, and in FFVII, there is no way Tifa and Cloud can be described as living together. As for her being a hippie, most of the main characters in FFVII are hippies since they want to "save the world and stop pollution" and all that, and again, see number 3.

Again, I agree. I don't actually see this point ever being used though. I've seen few say Aeris is a homewrecker simply because she doesn't wreck anything. Cloud doesn't know his feelings for Tifa in FF7, and even Tifa isn't sure how Cloud feels, so how can Aeris be accused of being a homewrecker? I've never heard this, but its a silly notion. Just as silly as those who suggest Tifa is the "runner up prize" or "sloppy seconds"! Believe it or not, I've seen both suggestions!

Yes i agree with that. Aerith and Cloud seem to have a more romantic vibe than Cloud and Tifa, and they have the whole "tragic love" thing going for them, which i adore

I disagree. They have a stable and quite boring, normal relationship, which only gets bad because of Cloud's pain - and even then its not for a long period - he only spends 2 days away from the house when AC occurs and resolves this problem.

In my opinion, cloud and Tifa are more like siblings, they look out for one another, care for one another, yet they don't reveal any of their intermost thoughts and feelings to each other,

Oh, I disagree there. Normally they do tell each other everything. Look at the Case of Tifa flashbacks, they are very honest with each other. It's only when Cloud suffers from his guilt once more, that he starts to get distant, and many people who suffer from traumatic depression do the same - it's not about the relationship, as its internal and thereby can only be sorted out primarily by oneself.

Cloud never told Tifa he had the Stigma, while Tifa hasn't ever told Cloud how she feels for him.

Yes she did. Actions speak more than words is the FF7 resolution to their lack of vocal honesty; that love doesn't have to be said, it can be shown through ones actions. Not just the sexual encounter under the Highwind but through what we do and how we act as people. He doesn't tell her about the Stigma because he's protecting his family from his pain. He feels being distant from them serves them because he is useless and thereby doesn't deserve them.

Again I must quote Ultimania and the AC DVD where its stated that the happy Cloud gets, the guiltier her feels. He doesn't feel he deserves Tifa and his family, because he's failed so many before him and he's convinced he'll fail them as he did Aeris and Zack. So the happier he feels the more guilty he feels happy, the more distant he gets. Again, this is the official Ultimania companion.

They've known each other for years and years, and yet theres been no romantic progression between the two.

I don't think you can suggest that at all. Cloud's promise to Tifa was precious to him while he was in Shinra (Ultimania/BC), his shame prevents him from seeing her at Nibelheim (LO) but eventually Tifa's experience of CLoud's inner most suppressed and tender memories about her (FF7) reveals the truth to her, and then she expresses her feelings to him under the Highwind (FF7) to which they both then express their feelings through their risque actions (Ultimania - Nomura) which were initially going to be far more explicit (thank god they weren't! - again, Nomura).

Cloud then asks Tifa to live with him and he'll never leave her (Case of Tifa), which she agrees and they start a life together. They are happy and they start at adopted family, which both conclude that Denizel is a gift (or blessing - Maiden has Aeris' giving her blessing to Cloud and Tifa's future together at the end) to them from Aeris (Case of Tifa).

The notion that someone Cloud has failed has given him again something so special (his family), sends Cloud away from the house. He goes to the church in Advent Children looking for forgiveness because he feels guilty and unworthy of happiness (Ultimania/Advent Children).

Through the forgiveness of Aeris (Nojima) and the help of Vincent (I believe that was confirmed by Nomura, but I may be wrong) and Tifa (Advent Children, her words are playing though Cloud's mind in the Forgotten City) he comes back to the Edge with a weight lifted from his shoulders (he is no longer guilty and willing to fight for what he loves rather than run away). The ending resolves with Aeris once again giving Cloud back to Tifa and his family altruistically because its not his time to die. He can now face his guilt and sees Zack and Aeris for the first time (and I recall there is a quote somewhere that confirms the visions of Aeris in AC are the first he encountered, its not a regular thing).

The script confirms he does not meet Aeris in the flowerfield, that his final smile is at Tifa (for which the music was written for), showing the status quo has been established and their relationship is back on tracks. Finally Nomura has confirmed they are in a mutual romantic relationship in Advent Children, so there is no doubt their dynamic has progressed since FF7.

I'm sorry if that was long, but I felt I needed to clarify where I think you are in error with that last premise along with the evidence that supports my comment.

Peace.

 

[misbegotten_noob]

Cloud never told Tifa he had the Stigma...

10th Anniversary Ultimania: The more he realizes how happy he is living with Tifa and the children, the more the fear of losing that and regrets toward the past trouble Cloud.

Tetsuya Nomura (interview): Cloud found a peaceful life with Tifa and the children. He distances himself because he is afraid to lose that (Paraphrasing).

Coupled with his lines from AC it is clear Cloud attempts to shut himself off to her because he is afraid to harm her. And it is directly explained that the fact life with Tifa is making him happy that he starts to feel this way.

...while Tifa hasn't ever told Cloud how she feels for him.

Ultimania: Cloud and Tifa realize their feelings for one another in the Lifestream. They confirm their mutual feelings under the Highwind.

Crisis Core Ultimania (Tifa's profile): She communicates [her] feelings with Cloud in the latter stages of the story, and at the time of AC and DC they are living together.

People need to learn how to read between the lines. Cloud & Tifa have confessed their feelings long time ago. The quote also makes it abundantly evident that this confession is what led them to end up building a life together.

*I should also remind how C/T were confirming their feelings. During the interview in the 10th Anniversary Ultimania the writers have pretty much admitted the scene under the Highwind is implying Cloud & Tifa got intimate acting on their feelings.

 

[Dragon Mage]

Exactly, It's pretty clear that Aerith loves Cloud, for Cloud not just because of Zack, although his similarity to Zack is what initially attracts her to him, she sees the real Cloud persona and falls in love with that.

Thank you for saying this. It's another thing I wanted to make clear: There is no question that Aerith and Tifa love Cloud. No. Questions. About. It. So don't anyone try and use that card. I'm watching you; and so are the flying monkeys.

1. Aerith is dead, so Cloud HAS to Love Tifa.

Would you stop loving your parents if they died? Would you stop loving your husband/Wife if they died? No, you wouldn't, you wouldn't move onto the next person who showed some interest in you either. Cloud can (and from my viewpoint of the LTD, does) carry on loving Aerith, and - as shown in AC - since it is plausible for them to meet and talk to each other, he still has some form of emotional contact with her, and doesn't have to give it up or pursue a relationship with anyone else.

I completely agree. This is a batshit excuse (as you so eloquently put it ) Just because Aerith is dead, doesn't mean Cloud has to default to Tifa, for lack of options. He loves Tifa for other reasons.

2. Tifa was Clouds childhood friend.

I really can't agree with that line, shown in Clouds flashback Tifa was Queen of the Clique and had no time for Cloud, he's even blamed for Tifa falling into a coma, and is forbidden from seeing her again.

I'm gonna say this so all will know it without any doubt.

THEY WERE NEVER CHILDHOOD FRIENDS.

Cloud is an introvert; doesn't do to well with others, and prefers it that way. Since Tifa was always surrounded by other kids, as she was popular (?), he never really got a chance to get close to her. Even Tifa says "That's right...We lived right next to each other but I didn't really know you that well." (Or something to that effect) No, they were never childhood friends, and any statement claiming such is wrong. (not to be rude, but it is)

3. OMFG Aerith is hawter than Tifa! Tifa has the B00borz! Tifa Can kick Aeriths ass! Aerith can Kick Tifas butt!...and so on.

All of these are things that silly fanboys attempt to bring into an LTD, which is totally irrelevant, Their skills in battle and their looks mean nothing to whom Cloud loves.

Agreed. Fighting skills have nothing to do with how one's feelings towards another. This argument is irrelevant. Anyone that brings it up shall face the flying monkeys.

This threat is not idle.

4. Tifa is a slut!

See number 3. And, just because Tifa might dress a little sluttish, it doesn't make her one.

Nor does she even dress sluttish. I'd like to see where that idea came from....Actually, no I wouldn't. Forget I said that.

No, Tifa's dress-style is quite normal. At least her clothes aren't see-through, as is the fashion today. So, actually, she dresses more decent than normal, real people do. Kudos to Tifa for the cool vest.

5. Aerith is a Homewrecker / Hippie!

For her to "wreck a home" there has to be a home for her to wreck, and in FFVII, there is no way Tifa and Cloud can be described as living together. As for her being a hippie, most of the main characters in FFVII are hippies since they want to "save the world and stop pollution" and all that, and again, see number 3.

I find it'd be hard for her to bust down the door, being dead and all.....And actually, yeah, Tifa and Cloud ARE living together. Not in a romantic sense, from what we (the fans) know for sure. You can interpret any way you like, but there's no offical word. So, Tifa and Cloud simply could be living together because Tifa is the real wage-earner, Cloud is too lazy to get his own apartment, and/or Cloud has a horrible choice of said apartments to live in. (Remember, his first choice was a church with half the roof gone....at least he didn't have to pay rent. XD)

Yes i agree with that. Aerith and Cloud seem to have a more romantic vibe than Cloud and Tifa, and they have the whole "tragic love" thing going for them, which i adore

You KNEW you were asking for trouble when typed this. As you yourself have used such a point, so shall I. Just because Aeris died doesn't mean Cloud loves her.

And yes, I know, the 'tragic love' thing is very appealing to some. I find it downright crap. Cloud shouldn't have to suffer for the remainder of his long life because of said tragic relationship. To force the char into such a thing quite pisses me off. That's one major reason why I'm a Clifa.

Also, if Cloud and Aeris have a 'romantic vibe' than such a vibe must also resonate between him and Tifa. As I've so exhaustively said before, there's swaying evidence for both sides. Some people simply look at what they want, in this case, AG prefers to see only the CxA things and pointedly ignore the CxT things. This is only to be expected in this debate, however, as we'er all only human after all. But to outright say such a thing require more evidence AG. If you don't provide any evidence for CxA romantic vibe, than I shall ignore your argument entirely.

In my opinion, cloud and Tifa are more like siblings, they look out for one another, care for one another, yet they don't reveal any of their intermost thoughts and feelings to each other, Cloud never told Tifa he had the Stigma, while Tifa hasn't ever told Cloud how she feels for him. They've known each other for years and years, and yet theres been no romantic progression between the two.

No, they're both simply too shy to admit anything to one another. I tell ya, one day Tifa is gonna have had enough and just smooch the man. But untill then....

I digress. Simply being shy doesn't mean they don't have a mutual liking for each other. Cloud didn't tell Tifa about the stigma because, as tifa says, he wanted to face this alone in his suicidal depression. He also felt it was punishment/atonement for his 'sins' in letting his friends die. He was seriously mentally disturbed, but Tifa and Aeris fixed his noggin in the end (once more). Romantic progression is seen clearly between the two. Cloud even tells her that he wants to spend the rest of his life with her at his side (not in so many words, but that's the meaning). Romantic? Hell yeah. And I would also like to add that people 'date' for up to 4 years before getting married. Until then, it's just a gf/bf relationship.

Also, they haven't really known each other for 'years and years'. Cloud left for a good while when he was 12 (14?) and then met up again one tragic occasion at Nible, then met many years later at Midgar. So they've only truly known each other for about 2 years, after the events of the game.

Not according to Maiden.

I must read that some time. I'm afraid I gave up reading those things not a quarter of the way through the 'denzel' story. OMG, spare me the agony of having to read that again....

Though the slut angle has made a return in some circles given Nomura's confirmation that the "Under the Highwind" scene had sexual intent, and I know a few people of Cleris and Cloti persuasion have shown a lack of empathy into the reasons why they'd sleep together before Armageddon to pronounce such as slutty.

Tuthfully, this is just my opinon, the term 'slut' has no basis in this game/argument whatsoever, and should therefor be promptly abandoned. If Cloud and Tifa (or Cloud and Aeris, take yer pick) kissed once in the course of the game (which I believe to be the extent of sexual intent in that particular scene) does not immediately render either girl a 'slut'. It is an improper use of the term, and was used only because of highly biased and offended fanboys. Thus, it's use should be discontinued.