FFVIII's Bad Reputation.

A lot of people don't like Squall because he has faults. Which is pathetic, it's not a shitty 18th century gothic novel where the characters are perfect. It has real characters that have flaws. If people can't live with that then they should really considering changing. Just because you don't like something ie FFVIII or just a character doesn't mean it's bad.
It's actually good writing. It means that you aren't dettached.
So what if it only focuses on Rinoa and Squall, they are the main characters and romance is a very important theme in FF8.
It's better than not having enough focus on characters, like FF12.
 
Placebo said:
A lot of people don't like Squall because he has faults. Which is pathetic, it's not a shitty 18th century gothic novel where the characters are perfect. It has real characters that have flaws. If people can't live with that then they should really considering changing. Just because you don't like something ie FFVIII or just a character doesn't mean it's bad.
It's actually good writing. It means that you aren't dettached.
So what if it only focuses on Rinoa and Squall, they are the main characters and romance is a very important theme in FF8.
It's better than not having enough focus on characters, like FF12.
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There's nothing wrong with a character who has flaws, in fact, the entire cast of FFVIII was full of them. The problem with Squall was...his reason for being the way he was was not a good one.

Squall became the anti-social jerk he was because his half-sister left him when he was about 5 years old. Now, let's compare Squall's issues...with Cloud Strife's issues, the hero of the previous Final Fantasy. Cloud...lost someone who he felt some feelings for, was brainwashed, manipulated, used as an experiment, nearly died, and was jerked around the entire game. For Square to create another anti-Hero in the following game, who's only reasoning was: "I'm afraid of losing people,' came across as really lame.

Let's also not forget the fact that Squall was the way he was because he lost his sister...whereas every other playable character [minus Rinoa], also lost their entire family. Quistis, Selphie, Irvine, Seifer, and Zell were all orphans, and they didn't have the issues that Squall did. Of course, it's understandable that different people will take things differently, but Squall was just too much of an unlikable bastard.

What got me the most, was that Rinoa's love story with him was so awkward. He couldn't stand the girl all the way through Disc 2, and suddenly, once Disc 3 started, he was love-struck. There was no chemistry between them. What got me, too, was Quistis did all of the same things that Rinoa did, in terms of how she treated Squall, yet it yielded opposite results. The only conclusion I can come to is Squall has a thing for brunettes.

The main point is, after Cloud, Squall paled in comparison to him. They were big shoes to fill, which was why Square made a mistake by making the next hero of the story a watered down version of Cloud.
 
Cerridwen said:
Well, you have to consider that FFVIII came out right after FFVII. Fans were expecting an outstanding game from Square Soft, but instead most fans were very disappointed.
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I didn't go back to VII after I played VIII because the latter blew me away. :neomon:

I hate VIII haters, mostly because I loved it :wacky: The characters were really easy to get a hold of, Limit Breaks and Weapons had a good system, Junctioning was different but brilliant, the way GFs helped was interesting, the plot was just brilliant ... I can't see anything wrong with it, other than how much easier it was, compared to other FFs.
 
viii doesn't have a bad reputation everywhere. prety much everyperson that lives in my area that has played both vii and viii found viii to be the better game. it wasn't until i came to the forums that i found people not likig it. and even though some did not like it, their numbers were few compared to those that didn't like ix or x.
 
Contra Fates said:
Squall became the anti-social jerk he was because his half-sister left him when he was about 5 years old. Now, let's compare Squall's issues...with Cloud Strife's issues, the hero of the previous Final Fantasy. Cloud...lost someone who he felt some feelings for, was brainwashed, manipulated, used as an experiment, nearly died, and was jerked around the entire game. For Square to create another anti-Hero in the following game, who's only reasoning was: "I'm afraid of losing people,' came across as really lame.

Let's also not forget the fact that Squall was the way he was because he lost his sister...whereas every other playable character [minus Rinoa], also lost their entire family. Quistis, Selphie, Irvine, Seifer, and Zell were all orphans, and they didn't have the issues that Squall did. Of course, it's understandable that different people will take things differently, but Squall was just too much of an unlikable bastard.

What got me the most, was that Rinoa's love story with him was so awkward. He couldn't stand the girl all the way through Disc 2, and suddenly, once Disc 3 started, he was love-struck. There was no chemistry between them. What got me, too, was Quistis did all of the same things that Rinoa did, in terms of how she treated Squall, yet it yielded opposite results. The only conclusion I can come to is Squall has a thing for brunettes.

The main point is, after Cloud, Squall paled in comparison to him. They were big shoes to fill, which was why Square made a mistake by making the next hero of the story a watered down version of Cloud.
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Squall is a orphan, his father isn't dead, but he may as well be. When compared to the other members of the orphanage; Zell is adopted and has pretty much a normal upbringing. Irvine is adopted, and he doesn't turn out that well, he says himself that he finds being a sniper very lonely. Selphie goes to trabia and makes lots of friends. Quistis is a failed instructor with nothing in her life.
If you think about it, only Selphie and Zell have normalish upbringings.
The only form of stability that Squall ever had was Ellone, and she is sipped from him when he is so young. Furthermore he believes that he is to blame. So he can be excused for being slightly anti-social.
Also being a Seed requires a somewhat dettached nature.
So, his fear of losing people he loves is quite understandable.
Not everyone finds him an agreeable character, but that is subjective.

Rinoa and his love story is awkard, but as you explained, Squall is anti-social. She has to be so emotionally engaging, she is the one doing all of the work. She makes Squall know that she depends on him, that she needs him.
Now we know that Squall hates relying on others because Ellone was taken away from him an that he doesn't want people to rely on him because he feels that he may let them down. That's why he is so unresponsive to Rinoa at first. But in the second disc, responsibility is forced on Squall. He must warn the garden of the missiles. He becomes the garden's leader. Also he makes friends, who are willing to put on a concert for him. Essentially he is starting to change. Then at the end of disc two, Rinoa needs Squall, and he can't let her down as he knows how painfull it is. Also he likes her, she is reasonably attractive and they are teenagers. Throw all them hormones in there and something is bound to happen.
So Squall likes Rinoa and she needs him, which is why he does all he does for her in disc 3. Put yourself in Squall's postion Contra, he has just been on an abandoned airship, after saving her from space and fighting off all those monsters. You could not posibly have to save her, that kind of intensity would create a bond between two people, and in the case of Squall and Rinoa, strengthen it.

As to why Rinoa and not Quistis? Because in Squall's mind she was a older sister, who he didn't like. She always used to break up the fights between Squall and Seifer, there was nothing romantic in her actions. For Squall to like Quistis it would have to have been too Oedipal. As Squall considers her his instructor, someone older and in authority.

Cloud vs Squall will always be subjective, so there isn't much point in discussing that.
 
Placebo said:
Squall is a orphan, his father isn't dead, but he may as well be. When compared to the other members of the orphanage; Zell is adopted and has pretty much a normal upbringing. Irvine is adopted, and he doesn't turn out that well, he says himself that he finds being a sniper very lonely. Selphie goes to trabia and makes lots of friends. Quistis is a failed instructor with nothing in her life.
If you think about it, only Selphie and Zell have normalish upbringings.
The only form of stability that Squall ever had was Ellone, and she is sipped from him when he is so young. Furthermore he believes that he is to blame. So he can be excused for being slightly anti-social.
Also being a Seed requires a somewhat dettached nature.
So, his fear of losing people he loves is quite understandable.
Not everyone finds him an agreeable character, but that is subjective.
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This bit actually seemed to support my argument more than your own. You're saying that Squall's comrades had it worse off than he did, which is the point I was trying to make. Squall's friends had it just as bad, if not worse than he did. I remember watching an interview with Tetsuya Nomura about FF8's characters a while back, where he stated that Quistis was sexually abused by her foster fathers. This was something they didn't include in the American version, probably because it was too sensitive of a topic to put into a FF game. My reason for mentioning that, is that Quistis, through out the game, has it MUCH harder than Squall did. She was the only character to have no romantic involvement by the end of the game, and throughout the game she was either insulted, or labelled as a 'failure.' Yet, she wasn't moping around all of the time like Squall was, she did what she had to do, and the only mistake she made, was due to her compassion. She went back to Caraway's mansion to apologize to Rinoa, because she felt she was too harsh with her. It's unfortunate that Quistis had too much compassion for the brat. =/ Rinoa completely botched that mission. It's possible that Irvine's attack could have been successful, if Rinoa hadn't tipped Edea off with her 'Odine Bangle.'

All I'm saying is, that these are Final Fantasy games, where gamers expect a certain degree of the unimaginable and the surprising. For a main character to be as realistic as Squall was, it really turned me away from his character. I play Final Fantasy for the stories and characters, and I prefer for them to be a little more fantastical than they are realistic. Playing as Squall, to me, was the equivalent of going to high school, and dealing with the angsty teenagers there. Of course, Balamb Garden is a much cooler high school, but my point's just focusing on Squall's character himself. Video games are supposed to be an escape, which is why Squall bothered me so much, to be as 'emotionally damaged' as he was, because his sister left him at the age of 5. I can barely even remember anything at the age of 5, and as we all know, Squall and company [minus Irvine], DID NOT remember their childhood at all. So, I'm to understand that I have to sit there, for over 30 hours, and play with some stoic, introverted jerk, who complains and whines the entire game about how he 'doesn't want to do this' and that. Playing as a reluctant hero was just not my bag. If I'm going to play as a hero, I want him to BE a hero, not be someone who was just forced into it, and complains about it.

Rinoa and his love story is awkard, but as you explained, Squall is anti-social. She has to be so emotionally engaging, she is the one doing all of the work. She makes Squall know that she depends on him, that she needs him.
Now we know that Squall hates relying on others because Ellone was taken away from him an that he doesn't want people to rely on him because he feels that he may let them down. That's why he is so unresponsive to Rinoa at first. But in the second disc, responsibility is forced on Squall. He must warn the garden of the missiles. He becomes the garden's leader. Also he makes friends, who are willing to put on a concert for him. Essentially he is starting to change. Then at the end of disc two, Rinoa needs Squall, and he can't let her down as he knows how painfull it is. Also he likes her, she is reasonably attractive and they are teenagers. Throw all them hormones in there and something is bound to happen.
So Squall likes Rinoa and she needs him, which is why he does all he does for her in disc 3. Put yourself in Squall's postion Contra, he has just been on an abandoned airship, after saving her from space and fighting off all those monsters. You could not posibly have to save her, that kind of intensity would create a bond between two people, and in the case of Squall and Rinoa, strengthen it.
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When you read into it as much as you are [and I give you kudos for it], then it does make the love story make more sense. But therein lies the problem. A successful love story should not leave you having to think about it to such a high degree. That's the issue I had with the love story. It made no sense, because of how the script was executed. It was a very shoddy-script. If they had just included a little bit more to it, it could have been so much better. But, the way the script went was like this: Squall dances with flirty girl, flirty girl reappears asking about his rival, Rinoa [since she has a name now] pesters him and bothers him about his actions, Rinoa devises ridiculous plans that are sure to fail, Rinoa keeps bugging him, Squall gets annoyed with her, Rinoa has to saved several times, Rinoa asks Zell to get Squall's ring...DURING A FULL-SCALE ATTACK, Rinoa falls off Garden, Rinoa miraculously holds on even while the Gardens are ramming into one another [and numerous SeeDs are injured in the process, yet Rinoa still holds on], Rinoa becomes a Sorceress...
....And suddenly Squall is in love with Rinoa. Sometimes I think Squall only fell for her because of that, because that's exactly the moment he started to show concern for her.

As to why Rinoa and not Quistis? Because in Squall's mind she was a older sister, who he didn't like. She always used to break up the fights between Squall and Seifer, there was nothing romantic in her actions. For Squall to like Quistis it would have to have been too Oedipal. As Squall considers her his instructor, someone older and in authority.
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That does make sense, but what's endlessly ironic about that, is Rinoa -could- have been Squall's half-sister. Yet, Squall didn't end up with Quistis because he saw her as a 'sister.' I wouldn't call it Oedipal though, since Oedipal is affection for a mother, not a sister.

Cloud vs Squall will always be subjective, so there isn't much point in discussing that.
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Well, any and all discussion about Final Fantasy games by fans will be subjective, because their opinions. But that doesn't mean we should all stop discussing topics, does it? I think that there is a very good reason for comparing FF8 to FF7, because Square is expected to produce better games, not worse ones. It's not at all unfair for fans to make comparisons.

The last thing I have to say, is that this thread is asking why FFVIII had a bad reputation, so negative comments about the game will obviously be in this thread. I think I may have been a bit misunderstood, and seen as a 'FFVIII-hater,' when in fact, I'm not. I'm just answering the thread's question, which is, why FFVIII is disliked by some fans. I actually LIKE FFVIII, because the battle system and junctions make the game a lot of fun. I even mentioned the good points of FFVIII, but as much as I liked the game, I've found a lot more faults with the game than I've found positive aspects. But, most of those complaints are all directed at the story, or in my opinion, lack there of. =/ These are just my opinions, but I feel that I'm entitled to them, just as you are entitled to your own.
 
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I always find myself somewhat mystified as to why this one in particular is hated. I understand why one could hate all the various aspects cited (dislike the junction system, think characters are undeveloped, etc.), but frankly these are issues that crop up in every single Final Fantasy game.

My biggest issue is with some of the arguments about the junction system. Some players lament the tediousness of drawing. I can see how it can be tiring to sit through a single battle and draw, and draw, and draw, and draw. It is tiring, if done in such a way. But really, is it any more thrilling than the usual level-grinding? And in any case, I doubt the game designers expected you to sit in front of the TV and draw for hours on end - the idea is to draw as you go, not as its own agenda but simply as a portion of the battle tactic.

Some people claim it makes the game way too easy. I can understand that. Some people claim that the system can be difficult to understand conceptually. I can understand that, too. But I find it irritating when people try to claim both.

If you think it makes the game too easy, than obviously you've been utilizing the system and know at least to some degree how it works - so you can't turn back and complain about how complicated it is!

As for the alleged shoddy character development - I have to partly agree with that one. Square seems to have put all its eggs in one basket - or rather neglected to give any eggs to much of the peripheral party. Only Squall, Rinoa, and Seifer see significant development (in a way, Edea does too, but it's not so much her developing as it is her true identity being freed).

However, the characters do get some development.

- Most notably, Selphie's character is deepened by the Trabia Garden episode, particularly the graveyard scene.
- Quistis gets developed during the Trabia flashback, as well as after the return from the Lunar Base.
- Irvine gets a very subtle development in connecting his anxiety during the assassination mission at the end of Disc One and his revelations about the orphanage.
- Zell doesn't really develop much, although as essentially a comic relief character, it can't be expected. He does get somewhat fleshed out, however, during the side quests as being rather well-informed despite also being a spaz.

Blah blah blah... there are tons of reasons to argue against the complaints against FFVIII, but irrational game hatred likely won't be dissuaded. Pet peeves are pet peeves, I guess.
 
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What I don't like about ff8 is customizing weapons instead of going out and buying them, so unless you can be bothered to go and find all the right parts you have to stick with the same weapon throughout the whole game. And by far ff8 is not the worst ff game its my second favourite. I'd say the worst was 12 because I didn't really like the battle system, and where the game was set I didn't like to me an ff should be set in the future or present.
 
I Kno W I Come Around Here Every So Often But The Hell Is This......people Dont Like Ff8.....this Is A Massive Blow To The Entire World. Im Mean This Was A Great Game No Problems Qaum Scire Ves Odium Ff8 There Is Nothing Wrong With This Game And Anyone Who Thinks There Is Can Go To Hell
 
galaxyflair, please refrain from saying people can 'go to hell' if they hate VIII. Everyone here is entitled to their own opinions and like every game, there will always be people who love and hate it. This also goes for anyone else who 'strongly' disagrees with the views of others. Thank you.

In all honesty I never really got into the game that much, mainly because as Cerri has pointed out; it was being hyped up to that of VII and in my personal opinion I just don't think that it lived up to the hype. All being said, I thoroughly enjoyed the romantic story/characters and the soundtrack...whilst the draw system made battles way longer than what they should have been.
 
I believe the two main reasons why FF8 wasn't as popular as the other games is that its predecessor FF7 was the final fantasy almost everyone who has ever touched playstation console. People thought after something like FF7 appeared that FF8 would just as cool but when it didn't meet their expectations, they were probably disappointed by the game and the game being the way it is. Another reason I believe (actually most users in this forum believe) is just the Junctioning system and the leveling system, I rarely was concerned about monsters leveling up as you as well as the Junctioning system itself even though I am currently struggling against Adel that I need to junction and obtain even better weapon. the junctioning system can a little irritating at times because certain magic can affect certain stats but I find that inspite of its complexity, it can worl to your benefit if you know how to use it.
 
Personally I liked FF8 even though it had it's flaws.

1. Juntioning, I have mixed feelings about junctioning, though boosting stats by juntioning magic is a good way to power up characters it also meant I didn't use magic, ever.
Which is a shame had magic been a bit better in battle (for me it didn't deal enough damage compared to normal attacks) magic might have been used for something else then junctioning.

2. Rinoa and Squall, I loved the romance story, the best out of any of the FF games however the bad thing was that it was the game. Personally had would have liked Square to extend the story by 1 more disk and let the gamers experience the history of all other characters as well.

3. Summons, though sometimes a bit hard to obtain the GF's were a cool part of the game. However like magic it was more trouble then it was worth at some points. The time I needed to summon was double what I needed for normal attacks and if you deal 9999 damage either way attacking twice is better.

4. Auto level adjustment, this is probably FF8's greatest as well as least known asset. Bosses and monster power became higher as you reached higher levels. This means running around leveling up through random encounters might have looked like a good idea but it was quite pointless.
I finished FF8 at lvl 30 trying to get as few levels as possible however on an other forum a guy managed to finish the game without leveling (finishing the game at lvl7).
He even made a guide for those interested.
http://www.neoseeker.com/resourcelink.html?rlid=56234&rid=52107

5. Story and setting, I really liked the world of FF8 just like I did with most of the other FF games. You can tell there has been put a lot of thought into it, and you can spend hours talking to NPC's/reading books to learn everything about the world.

I really want to try finishing without leveling myself but that will have to wait till I have time for such things.
 
i think one reason (amognst others of course) is coz ppl are sheep and will devoid their true opinions in favour of acceptance from the masses....

8 is great, i got into 8 be4 i had the internet, i was like 8 yrs old or something, and i love it to this day. perhaps if i had ppl hounding in my ears on forums; 8 sucks, lmao u leik 8! N00b! i may have said otherwise about the game (although personally id like to think i wouldnt...)

dont get me wrong... many ppl have genuine reasons why they dont like it, and thats totally, 100% fine, but sometimes u may enter a forum and there its shamed upon to like something, (and as human nature seeks acceptance), ppl will conform. luckily this forum isnt really like that. to give an example, many ppl on the ffwiki seem to have this anti-8 opinion.

and also, the game has elements that limit the audience it appeals to. ie. junction you either love or hate, squall you either love or hate, and most ppl hate Ultimecia.

for me, i loved all three things, so there ya go!
 
I'm with galaxyflair. FF8 was an AMAZING game. The customizing weapons, the monsters, the characters, the GF's, the love story, the humor. It was just straight up awesome. Zell was the shit. The only FF thats better then 8 is 10.

I don't agree with telling people to go to hell however.
 
Seifer said:
Hello all,

Just writing to ask the question. Why?

Out of the numerous FF forums i have been a member of over the past 5 years, a lot of people strongly dislike VIII far more than any other FF game, and i know that it can't just be a co-incedance. So if anyone cares to enlighten me in some way, with actual reasons why they dislike this game?

For example i know a lot of people didn't like the junctioning system. I found it quite ingenuititive and effective. I mean if your smart about it, you can equip maasive amounts of elemental advantages, so if you knew what bosses and areas had certain elemental attributes, you can own them royally.

It was the first FF with real size people which i liked.

The world map wasn't too bad, And the characters and storyline were quite easy to submerse yourself into.

Although i know i am a little byist to this game, as it was the first FF i had played, so i do have a soft spot for it.

But any inout would be appreciated :)
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when i first played it i was like what the fuck.

but if i would of took me time like i did when i have nothing to do then i would understand it.

the reason i hated it was the draw magic and others thing i cant rember but then i got into it and love it so i think battle is the problem its not ff7 u cant click in a menu and get u have to draw it lol like the other guy said
 
Drachnon said:
Personally I liked FF8 even though it had it's flaws.


4. Auto level adjustment, this is probably FF8's greatest as well as least known asset. Bosses and monster power became higher as you reached higher levels. This means running around leveling up through random encounters might have looked like a good idea but it was quite pointless.
I finished FF8 at lvl 30 trying to get as few levels as possible however on an other forum a guy managed to finish the game without leveling (finishing the game at lvl7).
He even made a guide for those interested.
http://www.neoseeker.com/resourcelink.html?rlid=56234&rid=52107


I really want to try finishing without leveling myself but that will have to wait till I have time for such things.
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I may want to try that but I just got if I can get past that blasted Adel!
 
Despite the truth in the cons - a lot of them higlighted and elaborated wonderfully by Contra Fates - I really enjoyed this game. However, I can understand why others may not.

Rinoa really does seem to be a character you either love or hate, and the romance between her and Squall did have the worst development. Although, it could be claimed that Squall was
supressing his feelings and later realised he loved her when she went into a coma. I think he was still struggling to admit how he felt to himself when he carried her for miles
so, in retrospect, maybe it didn't develop so badly after all. One must remember that real people can be like that. Who's to say that people in a story can't be either?

But, either way, the game isn't perfect and, for some, leaves a lot to be desired. I personally enjoyed the battle system, the story, didn't think the characters too flawed - although I agree that Seifer wasn't
badass at all... but maybe people just expected these characters to be flawless and stereotypical. Surely a villain who doesn't fall strongly into the stereotype is more interesting for that; it blurs the line between good and evil and makes the gamer question where the division really lies.

Edea may also not have done anything wrong, but remember that
Ultemicia took over her body, meaning that Edea, who was still deep inside somewhere, may have been fighting for power over her body again, preventing Ultemicia from doing anything truly evil.
It's theory, yes, but still possible. Or maybe I'm thinking more than the writers themselves.

I didn't actually hate the script. I thought some of it was a bit silly, yes, but it's a game and some of the smaller characters, such as Zell, seemed to be used mainly for humour. Zell's character/persona also left room for lines such as: "They're coming at us from all sides! We have plenty of casualties! We need to protect the Junior Class---oh, Rinoa wants my ring? Here ya go!"

Anyway, I could go on for a while, but then I'd just be going off on a bigger tangent than I already am. >.< I'm really just arguing against the points haters of the game make. :/ I think that Contra Fates weighed up the reasons nicely.
 
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ok well i played seven followed by eight ( first two games) and i switched from one to another when i go stuck and ive actually moddeled my life around cloud and squall so i LOVE both of the games and i see myself in most of the main male characters and i guess that intrigues me.

so I LOVE IT

but seven pawns eight lol
 
Has FFVIII got a bad reputation? I havent been an internet forum junkie for a long time, so I don't know what the fuss on forums about FFVIII is.... But I must say that whenever I have met someone in real life, it is sadly more likely that they are fans of FFVIII and FFX than any other FF.

I like FF8 for its own qualities. Awesome military mixed with sorcery theme, and a great soundtrack. But the thing is, and perhaps I'm just bumping in to the wrong people, but most people who have played a few FF's will have played this one, and rate it among their highest. It's normally up to me to try and convince them to play some others as well, and tell them that while FF8 is good, they are missing out on so many other great story lines...

So basically.. With me, it's the other way round. I usually have to defend the greatness of the other games and state how they are excellent and shouldn't be overlooked.
 
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