Gun Rights

[Rockman X]

God I love when these things happen, because then it just rapes anti-gun theories:

Manager Stops Would-Be Robbers
Posted: July 4, 2008 04:25 PM
Police say some would-be robbers got the shock of their lives when they showed up at an Old Hickory restaurant late Thursday night.


Investigators tell News 2 the assistant manager at the Sonic restaurant on Robinson Street refused to be a victim, and instead, shot back.


The holiday started with a frightening bang for more than 30 customers and employees when police say would-be robbers walked into this Sonic restaurant. One of the robbers had a gun, but police say so did the assistant manager. He fired first and the scared robbers ran off.


Police say the manager wounded one of the robbers who hobbled to their getaway car parked in this car wash across the street from the restaurant. But he left a trail of blood on the pavement.


No customers were hit with gunfire, but those eating here last night saw all the action up close.


"We do have a lot of witnesses to this which is just going to be beneficial in solving this crime," Captain Michele Donegan from Metro Police told News 2.
Police put out a BOLO - a "Be On The Lookout" all to all the local hospitals for a gunshot victim. When the suspect showed up at Sumner Regional Medical Center, police tell News 2 he claimed he was shot while walking down the street, but couldn't say which street. Police tell News 2 they'll arrest the man just as soon as he recovers from his wounds.


Police believe the incident may end a robbery spree. Investigators tell News 2 these suspects may have robbed three other Sonics in the past few weeks, including one just a couple of nights ago in Donelson.


Phone calls and emails to the sonic corporation were not immediately returned.

So that pretty much destroys arguments that say guns shouldn't be sold to the general populous. The guy kept his store safe, fended off the robbers and potentially ended a robbing spree. Link is here for any of you silly enough to not believe guns can actually be useful in preventing crime.

 

[Donald Trump]

The holiday started with a frightening bang for more than 30 customers and employees

30 people in the restaurant!
This moron manager risks the lives of those 30 people and himself because he feels like it. It's a miracle no one other than the robber got hurt.
It's fucking unbelievable. All he had to do was give them the money and everything would have turned out fine. But instead he decides, fuck it, all those people have a very high chance of getting shot, but, I don't want to give them money.
I bet they were insured too.

 

[Rockman X]

30 people in the restaurant!
This moron manager risks the lives of those 30 people and himself because he feels like it. It's a miracle no one other than the robber got hurt.
It's fucking unbelievable. All he had to do was give them the money and everything would have turned out fine. But instead he decides, fuck it, all those people have a very high chance of getting shot, but, I don't want to give them money.
I bet they were insured too.

Except that he wasn't swinging it around madly trying to find his target. In this state, to get a gun you have to go through safety courses teaching you how to use a gun, so one could only assume that he knew how to aim it.

Not to mention, it's ignorant to think that just because you hand a robber money they'll leave you alone. There have been a couple food service robberies this year in Nashville that left the cashiers dead, and they didn't try to hinder the thefts either. Robbers will shoot you for the hell of it sometimes, and this manager decided not to take a chance.

 

[Mitsuki]

Hmm, very interesting. I kinda have mixed feelings with this. Okay, I agree that guns can be useful when it comes to self-protection or others, but I'm not sure if going as far as carrying a gun in public is the best way. I think that if someone is to own a gun, it should stay at home, period. Naturally, I wouldn't feel so comfortable knowing that someone is carrying a gun at a restaurant, because when it all comes down to it, we could never really know anyone's motivation in the first place.

Here in Ohio, it's perfectly legal to carry a concealed weapon in public and that really makes me uneasy. I mean, I guess I can understand if someone's going out to meet someone somewhere in public (illegal activity, if you will) and they obviously feel the need to bring a gun just in case something goes wrong, but public places like restaurants, malls, shopping centers, etc...that's really taking it too far.

Now, as for that manager...I may have to contradict myself here a little, but I wouldn't say he risked the lives of those people. I doubt the robbers would spend their time killing more than 30 people though since their main objective is to get what they want and get outta there fast. Like I said, I have mixed feelings about this. Naturally, I'm glad he scared away those robbers by firing at one of them and like VR said, you can never really guarantee your life when it comes to robbers. I've heard many stories as well where robbers would rape and kill cashiers, receptionists, etc. after they had gotten what they wanted.

So in this case, I won't make a huge deal of the fact that he had used a gun in a public. It's done and over with and the outcome is what matters most. Of course, this is not to say that it couldn't have turned out differently (for the worst), because it could have! >.> Perhaps that's when I'll change my views and say something differently about the matter. It all really depends...but in general, I still really don't feel safe about guns being carried in public because there can be people out there who may carry them like they're nothing but credit cards in your wallet and use them when something strikes their fancy.

 

[Rockman X]

Here in Ohio, it's perfectly legal to carry a concealed weapon in public and that really makes me uneasy. I mean, I guess I can understand if someone's going out to meet someone somewhere in public (illegal activity, if you will) and they obviously feel the need to bring a gun just in case something goes wrong, but public places like restaurants, malls, shopping centers, etc...that's really taking it too far.

lol, illegal activity

I agree that it's a bit unnecessary to carry them to malls and the like. The most reasonable use I can see for them is if you had to take a route through a ghetto to get to a destination. I wouldn't dare set foot in the inner city without a gun.

And just to put this all in perspective, imagine what it's like for people living in the Middle East or Africa, where they live in so much more danger. It's a part of life for adults and children alike to be carrying guns, there's a constant threat of someone shooting you or raping you or bombing your house. It's a little silly of us to complain that there might be a few people walking around in public with pistols when 10 year olds in other countries are walking around with AKs.

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

30 people in the restaurant!
This moron manager risks the lives of those 30 people and himself because he feels like it. It's a miracle no one other than the robber got hurt.
It's fucking unbelievable. All he had to do was give them the money and everything would have turned out fine. But instead he decides, fuck it, all those people have a very high chance of getting shot, but, I don't want to give them money.
I bet they were insured too.

Sorry but I agree with Vegeta, a cousin of my dads was killed a while ago, because some guy wanted his car, the fugitive asked my cousin to get out of the car or he'd kill him, my cousin obeyed and left the car, and the guy killed him anyway, criminals are unpredictable, and dont abide by the law, so what makes you think they'll stick to their word? Plus in the article it said they robbed other Sonics, they'll think twice about doing it again this time.

- Kuja

 

[Rockman X]

Sorry but I agree with Vegeta, a cousin of my dads was killed a while ago, because some guy wanted his car, the fugitive asked my cousin to get out of the car or he'd kill him, my cousin obeyed and left the car, and the guy killed him anyway, criminals are unpredictable, and dont abide by the law, so what makes you think they'll stick to their word? Plus in the article it said they robbed other Sonics, they'll think twice about doing it again this time.

- Kuja

Exactly. People who rob places aren't usually of sound mind, they'll kill a person to get rid of a potential witness, or they'll kill a person because they feel like it. You can't count on the criminal taking the money, saying thanks and being on his way leaving you perfectly live and able to call the cops.

And as I said before, to get a license you have to take a safety course and learn how to use the gun, so I hardly think he was putting all 30 people in the store in danger.

 

[Yunapalooza]

Personally I think...
That gun control is so, SO important! Just as an easy example, America...If there hadn't been such ridiculous gun laws in the first place, people wouldn't need to have guns as defense against other people with guns! Anyone who still thinks that the laws on owning guns, buying guns etc should be kept as they are (not to offend anyone here, but its mainly the South...I don't want to use the word hicks, but...I will xD) then they are...silly. But then again, how are they supposed to solve the situation? Its really tricky...
I don't really agree with having guns in any situation. I know that they are to an extent NEEDED in the army and things like that, but any other civilian use is ridiculous. Hunting is (in my opinion) pointless. At the moment I can't think of any other legal use for them, but also, when have guns ever done any good? I'm probably shooting myself in the foot here (pun DEFINITELY intended xD) cause someone is blatantly going to say something like "oh, what about that time that my friend got chased by a giant, angry bear, if he hadn't had his gun with him he would've died!" Well...you can sshh xD
And that AIDS analogy was stupid. Its not really anything like fighting AIDS with AIDS, because continuing to use guns in order to protect yourself from other gun-wielding freaks has some sort of logic, whereas more AIDS does not.
*waits to be ANNIHILATED* XD

 

[Rockman X]

Just as an easy example, America...If there hadn't been such ridiculous gun laws in the first place, people wouldn't need to have guns as defense against other people with guns!

Huh? Explain moar plox, how do gun laws contribute to people needing guns for defense? Gun laws are useless though, it's easy as hell to obtain weapons illegally so it really doesn't make any sort of impact.

Anyone who still thinks that the laws on owning guns, buying guns etc should be kept as they are (not to offend anyone here, but its mainly the South...I don't want to use the word hicks, but...I will xD) then they are...silly. But then again, how are they supposed to solve the situation? Its really tricky...

Hahaha, rednecks love their guns down here. You know, just in case they decide to try to have another civil war and beat the north. Actually I don't know why rednecks love guns so much, it's kind of scary since they're not fully capable mentally.

Hunting is (in my opinion) pointless.

Hunting is sort of a double-edged sword. If left unchecked, it can easily wipe out a species (like the passenger pigeon) or leave them endangered and in need of protection till they repopulate (like the bison and North American gray wolf). However, if there is no hunting at all, the results are just as bad. Hunting is declining in popularity in the states, and as a result deer are increasing in number so much that they're quickly becoming a leading cause of car crashes.

And that AIDS analogy was stupid. Its not really anything like fighting AIDS with AIDS, because continuing to use guns in order to protect yourself from other gun-wielding freaks has some sort of logic, whereas more AIDS does not.

Agreed. I do believe the saying "fight fire with fire" can apply here.

 

[Yunapalooza]

Huh? Explain moar plox, how do gun laws contribute to people needing guns for defense? Gun laws are useless though, it's easy as hell to obtain weapons illegally so it really doesn't make any sort of impact.

Well, the fact people are allowed to obtain guns legally means that its much easier to go out and randomly shoot somebody, THUS people think they needs guns so that they stand a chance against those crazy maniacs...Sorry if I'm not making much sense, I'm typing while 1) my mother is laughing REALLY LOUDLY at the TV next to me, and 2) I reaaally need to pee ;___;

Hahaha, rednecks love their guns down here. You know, just in case they decide to try to have another civil war and beat the north. Actually I don't know why rednecks love guns so much, it's kind of scary since they're not fully capable mentally.

Hahahaha. It is a scary thought. Just shout latin declensions at them and they'll run for the hills o__o

Hunting is sort of a double-edged sword. If left unchecked, it can easily wipe out a species (like the passenger pigeon) or leave them endangered and in need of protection till they repopulate (like the bison and North American gray wolf). However, if there is no hunting at all, the results are just as bad. Hunting is declining in popularity in the states, and as a result deer are increasing in number so much that they're quickly becoming a leading cause of car crashes.

Definitely. I remembered just now about the marksman needed to shoot the pigeons in Wimbledon so they wouldn't disturb the tennis...Culls have been needed in the past and they still need them now for some species, but in terms of hunting for sport or pleasure, thats what I don't agree with...but you are right in saying that hunting is necessary in some situations =D

 

[Rockman X]

Well, the fact people are allowed to obtain guns legally means that its much easier to go out and randomly shoot somebody, THUS people think they needs guns so that they stand a chance against those crazy maniacs...Sorry if I'm not making much sense, I'm typing while 1) my mother is laughing REALLY LOUDLY at the TV next to me, and 2) I reaaally need to pee ;___;

Ohhh, okay, that makes a bit more sense. Then again, if guns were illegal, only the criminals would have them because I don't think many upstanding citizens would feel like talking to the necessary people to obtain a gun.

*shrug* It goes either way, really.

Hahahaha. It is a scary thought. Just shout latin declensions at them and they'll run for the hills o__o

Actually they're more likely to call me an illegal immigrant and shoot me if I do that. It would be safer to just say something derogatory about homosexuals or Mexicans, then they'd like me xD

Definitely. I remembered just now about the marksman needed to shoot the pigeons in Wimbledon so they wouldn't disturb the tennis...Culls have been needed in the past and they still need them now for some species, but in terms of hunting for sport or pleasure, thats what I don't agree with...but you are right in saying that hunting is necessary in some situations =D

Aye, like I said, it's a double-edged sword. I don't condone killing animals simply for sport, though. I have an uncle who regularly takes his two daughters hunting for deer with him, but they don't just kill to decrease the population. They actually use the meat (and generally send us some too). If an animal is killed for food and not wasted, then I think it's perfectly acceptable. Now we just need more people to do that so all those brain-dead deer stop running in front of cars

 

[Donald Trump]

Except that he wasn't swinging it around madly trying to find his target. In this state, to get a gun you have to go through safety courses teaching you how to use a gun, so one could only assume that he knew how to aim it.

He could have missed, or wounded him so that he was unable to walk away. The the most likely thing would be that he would shoot back.

Not to mention, it's ignorant to think that just because you hand a robber money they'll leave you alone. There have been a couple food service robberies this year in Nashville that left the cashiers dead, and they didn't try to hinder the thefts either. Robbers will shoot you for the hell of it sometimes, and this manager decided not to take a chance

The article said that they had robbed before, and hadn't used the guns, so it was unlikely that they would this time.
However, I can see what you mean, you can't predict exactly what is going to happen.
But if the criminals were going to shoot, they would do it before the manager or whoever has time to reach for gun and aim it.

Now, as for that manager...I may have to contradict myself here a little, but I wouldn't say he risked the lives of those people. I doubt the robbers would spend their time killing more than 30 people though since their main objective is to get what they want and get outta there fast. Like I said, I have mixed feelings about this. Naturally, I'm glad he scared away those robbers by firing at one of them and like VR said, you can never really guarantee your life when it comes to robbers. I've heard many stories as well where robbers would rape and kill cashiers, receptionists, etc. after they had gotten what they wanted.

That's not what I meant. I didn't think the robbers were going to go hahahah you must all die now.
I meant that there is a very good chance that if there was shooting, the customers would get hit in the crossfire.

 

[zidane]

Aye, like I said, it's a double-edged sword. I don't condone killing animals simply for sport, though. I have an uncle who regularly takes his two daughters hunting for deer with him, but they don't just kill to decrease the population. They actually use the meat (and generally send us some too). If an animal is killed for food and not wasted, then I think it's perfectly acceptable. Now we just need more people to do that so all those brain-dead deer stop running in front of cars

I agree completly

another thing that hasn't been brought up yet(or at least hasn't been discussed much) is shooting for fun at a shooting range, if gun control laws are inreased to the point that owning and buying guns illegal what about the people(like me) who find guns and shooting guns fun, and what about the shooting sports in the olympics?

(off subject note: if they do remove shooting sports from the olympics I want them replaced with bull riding )

 

[Erythritol]

Well, to be honest, after living in a nearly gunless society for several months, I can tell you I far prefer it. I feel much safer. I think the idea that we don't need more stringent gun control because some people 'like shooting for fun at shooting ranges' is possibly THE dumbest argument I've ever heard. Get a new hobby. One that doesn't involve a deadly weapon. Also, I can completely render the 'more guns means more safety' argument completely obsolete right now, watch: Japan. Yakuza have guns, but otherwise, guns are nearly impossible to obtain. Japan's homicide rates are MUCH lower than America's. And such an argument is similar to the mutually assured destruction argument: if EVERYONE has nuclear weapons, then if one country uses them, we ALL go down! Hey, what about if NO ONE has them, then NO destruction would have to occur? Sure, criminals would still be able to obtain guns, but it would really cut down on a lot of crime. Some disgruntled student/worker wouldn't be able to walk into their school or workplace and gun down innocent people. But if you feel like that's acceptable collateral because you want to shoot guns for fun, by all means...

 

[zidane]

you do have a good arguement that I is hard to counter, but my question(whitch I think I didn't state well enough in my previous post) is what will happen to the people who allready have guns(for any reason) when suddenly they all become illegal

also gun controll laws have no effect on guns made before 1894 because if they are older than this they are technically not fire arms but antiques

 

[Donald Trump]

you do have a good arguement that I is hard to counter, but my question(whitch I think I didn't state well enough in my previous post) is what will happen to the people who allready have guns(for any reason) when suddenly they all become illegal

also gun controll laws have no effect on guns made before 1894 because if they are older than this they are technically not fire arms but antiques

They take them off them.
As for pre 1894 guns, I don't think we need to worry much, as I doubt many people are shot by them.
If people still feel the need to take part in a sport where someone practises with a deadly weapon so they can become more lethal, then surely they can take up archery.

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

Well, to be honest, after living in a nearly gunless society for several months, I can tell you I far prefer it. I feel much safer. I think the idea that we don't need more stringent gun control because some people 'like shooting for fun at shooting ranges' is possibly THE dumbest argument I've ever heard. Get a new hobby. One that doesn't involve a deadly weapon. Also, I can completely render the 'more guns means more safety' argument completely obsolete right now, watch: Japan. Yakuza have guns, but otherwise, guns are nearly impossible to obtain. Japan's homicide rates are MUCH lower than America's. And such an argument is similar to the mutually assured destruction argument: if EVERYONE has nuclear weapons, then if one country uses them, we ALL go down! Hey, what about if NO ONE has them, then NO destruction would have to occur? Sure, criminals would still be able to obtain guns, but it would really cut down on a lot of crime. Some disgruntled student/worker wouldn't be able to walk into their school or workplace and gun down innocent people. But if you feel like that's acceptable collateral because you want to shoot guns for fun, by all means...

Hello, I dont believe we've yet

I think I mentioned this already, but in Germany theres a road where you can go as fast as you like, and yet theres less car crashes and deaths there, then an American Street that has a speed limit. That doesn't mean we should get rid of cars, and ride bicycles, although I'm not totally against that, we just have to eduacate people, although very few people listen out of ignorance, and the feeling "It will never happen to me".

Its naive to think no guns = safer place, criminals will always be able to obtain guns, you said the Yakuza have guns, but if you really think about it, why should criminals have access to guns, yet law abiding citizens shouldn't? It makes no logical sense. Gun Control just gives you a false sense of security. Again, more deaths occur from obesity, and car crashes. Tofu and Bicycles ftw.

And yes Japans homicide rate is lower than that of the U.S's, but bear in mind, Japans population is lower than of the U.S's so logically the homicide rate is gonna be higher, although I can see you presenting the arguement that Japan has XX amount, and the U.S has a XXXXXXXX amount.


Feel free to comment


- Kuja

 

[aerocrystal]

Well...I'm assuming this rate is a percentage...so a lesser population shouldn't matter because it's a percent of a total...

However...I could see where you could argue that other factors keep the homicide rate down. Like...there is no way of completely determining that it is gun control itself that does that.

I guess what should really be compared is the percent of gun related deaths per year (of total deaths) compared.

That argument about law abiding citizens is silly. Criminal dictators can get bombs and warheads and tanks...that doesn't mean I think law abiding citizens should get nukes...

Criminals can also easily get heroin...that doesn't mean I think it should be sold in stores.

 

[Sephiroth Crescent]

Well...I'm assuming this rate is a percentage...so a lesser population shouldn't matter because it's a percent of a total...

However...I could see where you could argue that other factors keep the homicide rate down. Like...there is no way of completely determining that it is gun control itself that does that.

I guess what should really be compared is the percent of gun related deaths per year (of total deaths) compared.

That argument about law abiding citizens is silly. Criminal dictators can get bombs and warheads and tanks...that doesn't mean I think law abiding citizens should get nukes...

Criminals can also easily get heroin...that doesn't mean I think it should be sold in stores.

Hello Aero,

What you say about dictators is true, but the problem is your comparing a dictator to a person who follows the law, I can see where your coming from, but to compare a dictator obtaining a nuke, and an average joe going to buy a gun which is legal are two completely different things, as such heroin is also illegal, yes I understand that, what I can't figure out if how you came up with that as a counter-arguement. I think you missunderstood what I was trying to get across, you see what I was trying to say about law abiding citizens and criminals means of obtaining guns is that law abiding citizens don't go to the Black Market and buy an illegal firearm, but criminals do, I'm not saying if a criminal can obtain something so should an average person. With that said if gun control is issued, crime won't go down as criminals will find an alternative, if you control everything, then...will we need to get our hands chopped off so we cant punch anybody? I'm in favor of stopping crime as much as any other person, but this idea isn't the solution.

Crime can occur for many different reasons, like Poverty, or Lack of an Eduacation, but as such counter-arguments can be made for both. A solution to end all crime, is one we can only hope for, and probably is one we can only dream about.

- Kuja

 

[Donald Trump]

What you say about dictators is true, but the problem is your comparing a dictator to a person who follows the law,

You're doing the same by comparing criminals to law obiding citizens. Criminals and dictators aren't on the same level, but the same logic applies.

With that said if gun control is issued, crime won't go down as criminals will find an alternative, if you control everything, then...will we need to get our hands chopped off so we cant punch anybody? I'm in favor of stopping crime as much as any other person, but this idea isn't the solution.

It will, less guns = less guncrime.
It's not just criminals who shoot people, who commit crimes.
Liek Eryth said, gun control stops ordinary people from becoming killers. Husband comes home, finds his wife in bed with another guy, he pulls out his colt .45( He is dirty harry obviously) and blows his wife's and her lover's head to little bits.
Or Postal worker goes postal, and there are 10 people leaking like colanders.
You and VR raise a fair point about using alternative weapons, but short of running around injecting people with smallpox, it won't be as effective at killing. I'd much rather fight a person with a knife than a person with a gun.

Again, more deaths occur from obesity, and car crashes. Tofu and Bicycles ftw.

There is nothing stopping people buying guns and killing. Besides, of course morals.
Being fat is unattractive so people don't like to be fat, and in Japan fat people get taxed more now.
The faster your car goes, the more you pay in insurance.
None of these deterrents exist for guns.
So it's reasonable, and logical even to limit and control guns.