Homophobia

[Will Graham]

Richard please read my statement carefully

You can judge a gay person, but you can't judge a person FOR being gay. Well you physically can, but you should not. You can judge someone's taste in music, but you shouldn't. Is that clear now?

Oh that is a great point! When did you decide to be a heterosexual? Also when did they discover the straight gene? There must be one if there is a theoretical gay gene

 

[Harlequin]

You can judge a gay person, but you can't judge a person FOR being gay. Well you physically can, but you should not. You can judge someone's taste in music, but you shouldn't. Is that clear now?

Oh that is a great point! When did you decide to be a heterosexual? Also when did they discover the straight gene? There must be one if there is a theoretical gay gene

I don't mean to follow you from thread to thread as I imagine that's exactly what it looks like, but first off there's no proof that people are born with a sexual orientation and secondly, why doesn't Riddick have the right to judge someone for whatever he sees fit? Don't we as a society advocate freedom of thought if not freedom of speech? Why can't he decide what's right and wrong in his opinion? Surely by your own standards you've no right to dictate to him what he should and shouldn't judge? Regardless of whether you believe or it indeed is irrational?

 

[Naoto Shirogane]

1

1. What makes you believe the only possible reason for judging gays is due to their sexual orientation? Clearly, there are many different reasons for it and pretending there is only one possible reason is twisting and distorting the issue.

2. I agree, both should be wrong & I try to avoid it whenever possible. But, that still doesn't change the double standards in play and how acceptable it is for people to be judgemental idiots simply because someone says or does things differently from how they do it.

1. Who said I was pretending? I was using the most basic judgemental trait as an example. There are hundreds of ways for someone to judge a gay person. But my point still stands that it's wrong

2. judging someone because of actions is something that humans do naturally. It's a defence mechanism. We judge people in order to keep us safe. We judge people we meet in order to create a opinion that will hopefully allow us to survive should they turn out to be a bad person. This judging is something so ingrained in us, it's been classified as "Acceptable"

However, The turning point is when you believe that judging is true. When you choose to believe the person you judged is a evil thing, It cannonballs into bigotry and lies. Of course your judgement might be right. But when you let it consume you to the point of putting down that person is when Society deems it "unacceptable"

When you judge someone based on something they told you. If your long time friend told you "I was in jail for a year for robbery" your perception of them is dented and your mind re-judges them. If you bolt away and discriminate against them because of it. judging enters the "Wrong" zone. If you don't and still remain friends with them. your mind has firmly cut a hole in your perception of your friend.. your Judgement of them has changed. This is wrong.

TL;DR Judging in a ingrained Defence Trait. It's used to protect you. but when you let it get out of hand and start hating people because of judgement. is when judging becomes worse. Judging people is not right in the first place. But when you let your minds inital Judgement consume you is when it passes into "Unacceptable" Territory.

 

[Will Graham]

He is welcome to his opinions, that is why I said he could but he should not. Someone could go out and shoot people if they wanted, they shouldn't but they could if they wanted. Someone could be a racist if they wanted, I think they shouldn't but that is their call. If someone has the right to say they think being gay is wrong, I have the right to say I think people who think like that are wrong and so on

As for biologically there is ongoing research into that. Which is showing dissimilarities between homo and heterosexuals involving hormones in the womb and some other things

 

[Richard B Riddick]

You can judge a gay person, but you can't judge a person FOR being gay. Well you physically can, but you should not. You can judge someone's taste in music, but you shouldn't. Is that clear now?

Oh that is a great point! When did you decide to be a heterosexual? Also when did they discover the straight gene? There must be one if there is a theoretical gay gene

1. If you can't judge a gay person because they can't help being gay, then why should it be allowable to judge a person who can't help their taste in music? What you're really trying to say is its ok to judge, but gays should be exempt from judgement & given special treatment as if they were the only ones on the planet who were treated unfairly, discriminated against or stereotyped in a negative light.

I would compare it to eras when people said God and religion should be considered above criticism. Its a result of authoritarianism and people attempting to elevate their beliefs to a level above question moreso than anything else. History shows that type of mentality never yields positive results.

2. Like I said, don't change the subject. Whether its a choice or not has nothing to do with it.

1. Who said I was pretending? I was using the most basic judgemental trait as an example. There are hundreds of ways for someone to judge a gay person. But my point still stands that it's wrong

2. judging someone because of actions is something that humans do naturally. It's a defence mechanism. We judge people in order to keep us safe. We judge people we meet in order to create a opinion that will hopefully allow us to survive should they turn out to be a bad person. This judging is something so ingrained in us, it's been classified as "Acceptable"

However, The turning point is when you believe that judging is true. When you choose to believe the person you judged is a evil thing, It cannonballs into bigotry and lies. Of course your judgement might be right. But when you let it consume you to the point of putting down that person is when Society deems it "unacceptable"

When you judge someone based on something they told you. If your long time friend told you "I was in jail for a year for robbery" your perception of them is dented and your mind re-judges them. If you bolt away and discriminate against them because of it. judging enters the "Wrong" zone. If you don't and still remain friends with them. your mind has firmly cut a hole in your perception of your friend.. your Judgement of them has changed. This is wrong.

TL;DR Judging in a ingrained Defence Trait. It's used to protect you. but when you let it get out of hand and start hating people because of judgement. is when judging becomes worse. Judging people is not right in the first place. But when you let your minds inital Judgement consume you is when it passes into "Unacceptable" Territory.

1. What's 'wrong' about it.

2. If judging is natural why should gays not be judged?

 

[Naoto Shirogane]

As I have stated before, While Judging is a natural reaction when seeing something it is still unsavory to act upon impulse and Discriminate when faced with a bad first impression. You shouldn't treat them like dirt just because their first meeting is awkward.

Judging people because their gay is judging a group.If your judgement of this Gay person is a arrogant perverted Jerkass then your will judge all other gay people you meet as perverts. This is why judging the lifestyle of being gay is wrong. Your placing a stereotype on hundreds of people. Lableing them all as pervs. This is a mindset that spreads and causes harm to the Gay people themselves. They have a sterotype of being perverts? Well homophobes will terroize them based on that supersition.

Judging A Homosexual based on themself and NOT based on their sexual lifestyle is also wrong. Your judgement may leak out or spread and then some people will treat that person like dirt because you judged them wrongly. Your judgement could cause someone to cut themselves all because you acted on your judgement and (Example) called that teen with a rape baby a prostitute.

Yes Judging is a natural reaction. but you don't have to listen too it. You shouldn't judge anyone based on anything. The domino effect caused from your judgements can literally kill people. Half of Suicides are caused be people bullying and discriminated based on their judgements.

 

[Will Graham]

1. If you can't judge a gay person because they can't help being gay, then why should it be allowable to judge a person who can't help their taste in music? What you're really trying to say is its ok to judge, but gays should be exempt from judgement & given special treatment as if they were the only ones on the planet who were treated unfairly, discriminated against or stereotyped in a negative light.

I would compare it to eras when people said God and religion should be considered above criticism. Its a result of authoritarianism and people attempting to elevate their beliefs to a level above question moreso than anything else. History shows that type of mentality never yields positive results.

2. Like I said, don't change the subject. Whether its a choice or not has nothing to do with it.

I see you must be engaging in an overt attempt to wind me up, or perhaps you are not reading peoples' posts again. Nonetheless I am a kind old soul, and will explain one last time.

You can, but you should not judge someone FOR being gay. You can but should NOT judge someone's taste in music. Both things can but should not be judged. I cannot say it with any more clarity than that. I even highlighted the sections you seem to be having trouble with. If you misunderstand me again I can only assume it is willful ignorance.

I agree with you here, nothing in the world is above question. Not all questions are equally valid though, or all actions/people/events open to the same level of criticsim. This is nothing to do with the topic at hand though.

As for your second part, I was replying to you calling it a choice and bringing up the genetic element of it. Perhaps you should prevent yourself from changing the subject.

 

[Ohri-Jin]

People are so hypocritical. Taboo on certain objects humans like to select. So as long a group of people have certain traits its ok. Cause more than just 1 individual stands stronger. Thats obvious.

You cant judge one group and the other not.

Judging other ppl for their religion but another group you disregard.

But thts not the case in most situations.

Most atheists supports homosexuals and on the other hand they judge those with religion. Debating about these subjects shouldnt even exist then.

Humans are freeking hypocritical. Pointing fingers. Saying that certain ppl are homophobic when thy really not or not completely is the same thing thy cant do to homosexuals. Judging and categorizing.

I get Richards point, basically humankind choose wether its out of line cause it could cause genocide etc. Volience.

What about ppl tht believe in the devil? Arent they judged? Believers judge atheists not?
Cults? We all judge stop being so hypocritical!!!!

 

[Will Graham]

This thread is about homophobia not choice. You have the freedom to believe whatever you want, you do not have the freedom to choose who you love. All things can be judged, my point is that not all things should be. We can choose what we judge someone on, you can choose any criterion to estimate their worth. Their words, their actions, their gender, their orientation, their intellect, their beliefs, their beauty, anything at all. Whether you choose to judge someone on their biological preferences or on their intellectual conclusions, that is your perogative. Judging someone on something they have chosen however, is not the same as judging a person on something which they have no control over.

Also, dictionary definitions differ. From dictionary.com

ho·mo·pho·bi·a
   [hoh-muh-foh-bee-uh] Show IPA
noun
unreasoning fear of or antipathy toward homosexuals and homosexuality

Antipathy means aversion to or repugnance of. So calling all gay people sissies would come under that in my estimation

 

[Ohri-Jin]

Well what about those children that have been raised in certain environments? We rlly cant judge them cause they dont know any better. Their parents had the same raising. All in all we cant well we shouldnt judge them, yet we do.

Like ffxIII-2 praisers that judge people that judge the game. Same princuple.

 

[Will Graham]

Well what about those children that have been raised in certain environments? We rlly cant judge them cause they dont know any better. Their parents had the same raising. All in all we cant well we shouldnt judge them, yet we do.

Well I agree that the way some one is raised has a lot of bearing, but it is not a scapegoat in every instance. Normally I would not bring personal experience into this, but I suppose I will have to. I was raised in a country that is still over 80% catholic, that recognises the catholic church as having a special place in the constitution. My entire family is catholic, I was raised by catholic parents, I was baptised, I went to mass every week some times twice a week until I was 18, I made a communion and confirmation. All of my schools were catholic and had religious education classes. I still chose not to believe in God.

I have never in my life however been able convince myself not to get an erection when looking at a woman, or talk myself into being attracted to men

 

[seddy-0]

Is tht the right way to spell it?

What is a homophobic precisely?
I have no issues with homos. They are still human beings.

What I dont like are feminine homo sexuals.

Basicly I dont dislike homo sexuals as long they dont stick it my face or in public.

Does this make me homophobic?
Do I hate them? Am I afraid of them or something?

yes and no. to me you are being selective, you don't mind lesbians but you hate gays. well dude, thats the same thing. guy on guy is just the same as girl on girl.

I dont have issues with lesbians either.

i feel you are being favorable to women due to the way they are portrayed on tv and in well porn.

I stated tht all gaymen are sissies

to say all gay men are sissies.. don't go to a gym and say that. a lot of the muscly guys are prolly gay.. many men are gay and you have no idea that they are. to me you are not being homophobic, but rather uneducated in homosexuals.


[qoute]What I do think is disgusting are men with children and are married and meet with men to havr sex with.[/quote]

well that is not right in its own. he is cheating on his wife, and disrespecting his family no matter who he is meeting, guy or girl

Basicly I dont dislike homo sexuals as long they dont stick it my face or in public.

well that's a two way street. they may get offended t you hanging all over your girl in public. so its kinda like.. deal with it thing. you have to realize. people don't choose to be gay, its how they are. you don't choose to be straight its how you are. and gay is not a movement that has started recently or in the 70's gay goes back historically to roman times and prolly further. you need to realize its not what you are.. its who you are. i know gays and lesbians, and they are some of the nicest people.

 

[Harlequin]

Western society has a bizarre equality complex which - hilariously, often than not veers towards inequality. Being disgusted by two men and turned on by two women isn't a double standard it's a preference. I'll shy away from this thread now though, it's just turned into a holier than thou mess.

 

[Sepalcure]

I have to agree with Harly on this: when one likes their own gender or is romantically attracted to their own gender than that is a preference. A preference denotes what one likes and/or adores--what they are comfortable with, essentially. So for instance, I'm sexually attracted to females and am curious about sexual encounters with females however I am romantically attracted to males--I am, if one were to attach a label to my sexual preference--a bi-curious woman. I'm curious about both genders in a sexual manner--one more than the other, due to my inexperience with them.

However I'm just basing it on my own personal experience. Whomever one is sexually and romantically attracted to--no matter the gender-than that is their preferred preference. They may become aroused by the sight of their own gender but can only engage in intimate relationships with the opposite gender; or they may only be sexually and romantically attracted to their own gender. Regarding the matter of judgment--it is an almost intrinsic quality--in fact I would just deem it as such. One cannot help but subconsciously judge someone on certain pretenses however they can resign or suppress the notion to judge someone solely on one pretense over another. They cannot stop anyone from judging them however on a notion of: how they dress, their manner of speech, their mannerisms and specific nuances, their religious background, their cultural beliefs and practices, etc. However the act of judging someone based on their sexuality does not define their character nor their sexual preference, it merely dictates how you are as a person--it is a self-reflective mirror.

That said ... we cannot say for sure, nor do I think we should reserve the right to tell someone you can not judge at all or feel uncomfortable with someone's actions. I'll apply that general statement to the OP's original thoughts; I can not tell someone to stop feeling uncomfortable or to not judge someone at all. They will still judge someone on some factors and they may still feel uncomfortable if they were to, say for instance, see two men passionately kissing in public. It is a matter of tolerance and preference and what one has been taught--it is a learned behavior--as well as a subconscious and almost instinctive one. You will react reflexively to that which you do not feel comfortable with. If I were to hate the idea of two men kissing and I saw them doing this in public than I would try to suppress the urge to recoil or react with disdain. I feel uncomfortable, I am intolerant of it, it is not normal to me, it is a foreign action, and I may/may not be repulsed by it. Whether I choose to verbally state this or not--is my right. I have the freedom of action--I can say what ever I deem necessary yet that will either reflect poorly on me or I may conjure a certain amount of respect if I abstain from saying or doing anything.

That is the nature of judgment and freedom--there are loopholes and restrictions and it is paradoxical in our society. It is paradoxical because ... although a man has a right to throw out racial or homophobic slurs it does not make it right, it does not make it okay from the facet of a state and a constitution and a legal oath. Certainly we can say what ever we feel but there are ramifications we will expereince if it damages the character of another person; certainly we can do what ever we feel but there are ramifications we will experience if it physically harms another person and/or puts other people in danger.

That said ... everyone has the right to judge and I don't think I have any right to say that someone can not judge someone else based on their sexuality. I do believe that it's wrong to base your dislike or disdain of a person simply because of their loving someone of their own gender. I can not stop anyone here from feeling entitled to their opinion because they are entitled to their opinion and that is not a constitutional right--not merely that, no, I believe it is a human right. It is a human right to judge someone and to be judged and to expect that judgment and it is a human right to love and be attracted to whomever you feel attracted to. It is not right to force someone or dissuade someone from their opinion and to try to indoctrinate them to your way of thinking; especially if said person is comfortable expressing their sexuality in a manner that is innocuous to you and/or anyone else. In other words, so long as two gay men aren't "getting it on" in public than it shouldn't in essence, affect some of you, if not most of you that are uncomfortable with it. But then ... everyone's degree of comfort and tolerance is individualistic and subjective--there is no black and white; merely shades of gray and that is when it becomes complex.

 

[Sheechiibii]

People can feel uncomfortable with the idea of homosexuality all they like, they can be of the opinion that it's wrong, disgusting and they can think or judge homosexuals however they like. But they should keep it to themselves, not insult or abuse homosexuals over their own ideas. Opinions and thoughts are fine, but once those thoughts turn into actions that is when it crosses the line. People can't help being homosexual, no more than people can help being born with a specific skin colour or hair colour, male or female. To hurt people for something they cannot control is disgusting and wrong. That doesn't mean people should consider homosexuals right, no more than a racist has the right to believe that white skin makes someone better than black skin, but once they start spouting their bigotry about, that's when it's out of order and wrong.

Xx..xX

 

[L]

you dislike gay men, but not gay women, and you dislike the fact that gay men have sex with one another. i'm pretty sure that classifies you as homophobic.

i don't think that's neccessarily what they are trying to express

if a guy wants to fuck another guy, that's his perogative. just keep it out of my sight. if 2 ugly lesbians are making out, i will wish with all of my human might that the powers of my force will teleport them somewhere unpleasant. if they are hot, i might want to sit down and see where it goes.

but i'm not chasing anyone with a pitchfork or telling them that they shouldn't be doing something because I believe that it is wrong. if there is a god, and he wants to send homos to hell for being homo, that is their problem; not mine. and if there isn't, we're probably already in hell anyway.

but when a guy sits down and beats it to two chicks doing it... it really doesn't have anything to do with two homosexual females having relations.

it's like playing two gameboys at the same time or having a double cheeseburger instead of a normal cheeseburger. more chicks is more boobs, ass, legs and vaginas which matches their profile of sexually arousing.

but i don't want to know the man who doesn't shake his head in shame when a guy acts like a girl. you can be a fashion consultant, you can be a hairdresser, you can make dildos and test prototype models at home for a living for all I care.

but dont, just dont, dont do the lisp thing, put on women's clothing and act like it's a big motherfucking deal that you are a homosexual.

I think the closest thing I've ever seen to a woman just wearing apparel that literally just says "im a fucking lesbian. deal with it." is the typical biker look.

additionally, terms like "homophobe" are just labels. you are what you are, and I'm sure that as long as you aren't going to bring harm to anyone or purposely spark a conflict, that you, and everyone else will be fine.

i mean, if i walked into a parking lot at a local superstore and started asking every woman who passed me by if she wants to get fucked with the force of a jackhammer and just talked about how much i loved vaginas and how heterosexual i was every day, I am sure that a lot of people would eventually file a complaint and have me removed from the premises.

 

[Harlequin]

I still chose not to believe in God.

I don't think belief is a question of choice, it's based on conviction. You can't choose to believe an apple is and orange if you don't genuinely believe it. So if believers can't in fact help what they believe by your estimation it would be wrong to judge them, correct?

I feel as if there's a remarkable amount of ignorance when it comes to people's beliefs in our society and it's a shame no one is doing anything to remedy that problem. Not that I'm moaning about it, I just think there's a big double standard in certain groups being protected and others shredded and I think religion is certainly one of them.

 

[dutch710]

homophobia is pointless just like racism and ethnocentrism. they're people just like us. if a man wants to kiss another man or hold hands with him, that's them, i have no place to judge them. same thing with lesbians. it's a lifestyle choice. if i wanna drink a couple beers and smoke a dutch that's my lifestyle choice, i'm gonna do that and be happy.

 

[CPancer]

i don't think that's neccessarily what they are trying to express

if a guy wants to fuck another guy, that's his perogative. just keep it out of my sight. if 2 ugly lesbians are making out, i will wish with all of my human might that the powers of my force will teleport them somewhere unpleasant. if they are hot, i might want to sit down and see where it goes.

but i'm not chasing anyone with a pitchfork or telling them that they shouldn't be doing something because I believe that it is wrong. if there is a god, and he wants to send homos to hell for being homo, that is their problem; not mine. and if there isn't, we're probably already in hell anyway.

but when a guy sits down and beats it to two chicks doing it... it really doesn't have anything to do with two homosexual females having relations.

it's like playing two gameboys at the same time or having a double cheeseburger instead of a normal cheeseburger. more chicks is more boobs, ass, legs and vaginas which matches their profile of sexually arousing.

but i don't want to know the man who doesn't shake his head in shame when a guy acts like a girl. you can be a fashion consultant, you can be a hairdresser, you can make dildos and test prototype models at home for a living for all I care.

but dont, just dont, dont do the lisp thing, put on women's clothing and act like it's a big motherfucking deal that you are a homosexual.

I think the closest thing I've ever seen to a woman just wearing apparel that literally just says "im a fucking lesbian. deal with it." is the typical biker look.

additionally, terms like "homophobe" are just labels. you are what you are, and I'm sure that as long as you aren't going to bring harm to anyone or purposely spark a conflict, that you, and everyone else will be fine.

i mean, if i walked into a parking lot at a local superstore and started asking every woman who passed me by if she wants to get fucked with the force of a jackhammer and just talked about how much i loved vaginas and how heterosexual i was every day, I am sure that a lot of people would eventually file a complaint and have me removed from the premises.

Wow, how stereotypical & shallow of you to try to explain all of that, hah!

I see what you're trying to get at but please, please don't use stereotypes to defend what you say.

 

[The Master]

I don't know why I had not found this sooner, but now that I have, I'm going to speak my mind.

This post is sick... It just shows how insecure people are about what OTHER people do.

You don't think gay men should kiss in public but its A-O-FREAKING-KAY for a hetero couple to kiss?
This is called discrimination.

I including many other fellow gay men are not sissies. There are normal gay people and then there are fags (female. acting. gentlemen. stereotypes)- is what I like to call them. That being said, its like calling all black individuals criminals (which is not the case.

Another thing. Heterosexual couples can get married but gays can't? If it were not a legal binding contract which is recognized by law, it would be a little less upsetting. WHAT HAPPENED TO SEPARATION BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE!? Oh, and letting gays marry would be good for the economy, there would be more money being spent.

I'll be glad to put all of your hate and phobia to shame and make yourself look even more like a complete loser than that of what you already are.

Being gay is NOT a choice. For some (confused str8 bois) it is. But a true gay person (like myself) grew up knowing that they liked men.

I am catholic, and it has been very stressful living under the "you are going to hell" type stuff. But I believe my God is merciful and just. Oh, and by the way, its also a sin to wear clothes woven with two different fabrics, sinners

Gay people shouldn't be parents/should not adopt? WHY THE HELL NOT? So, a child has the right to be in an orphanage or raised by an abusive hetero family, but no way in hell they should be subjugated to a happy healthy life under the care of a homosexual couple? That's pure genius! (I am not saying all hetero families are abusive, I'm also not saying every homosexual family is good, but seriously...)

Did I mention that we also pay taxes and can vote too?
Again, what's wrong with gays being able to marry?
Gay is also not a lifestyle. Just throwing that out there... It CAN be, but it is not. It's like saying that all toast is bread, but not all bread is toast...
Oh and half of all marriages end in divorce. So, tell me again about how you value the sanctity of marriage...

I'm done ranting for now. But please, push me further into punching holes in your logic...