How could XII have been better?

Rydia

Rydia

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So a lot of us complain about XII and did not really care for it.

How do you think the game could have been better? What do you feel they should have done?

I think that they really needed to do something different with Vaan because he was too weak as a main character. (He's the one that you have to control in cities) He lived in the slums, he should have been much tougher. I actually liked him when he stole the money from the guard, but after that, he just went down hill and whined way too much.

There's more I want to add but I want to see what other people say first.

 
Vaan was a big problem for me for the game,
he was a boring main character, usually I like
the main characters because they have a back story
which develops to be revealed as you progress but with Vaan
I got little to none of that, even though he is the main protagonist,
I know his brother died and what not but that still didnt intrigue me
as it did when he died, Vaan just got stale.
the story is centered more so on Ashe so I believe she should have
been the main controllable hero.
I didn't like how long it took to level up as well
I always found myself fighting for hours trying to level up to a suitable level.
longer gameplay sure but it just gets boring trying to level for so long.
Even character development seemed weak storywise,
none really intrigued me and many lacked awesome friendships
or even back stories of their past and such,
thats how I saw it as the game progressed in my opinion.

So to improve the game they needed to change the main protagonist and also focus on more character development from their past to understand who they are today. mine mainly had to do with the story I guess, I don't hate the game, I just didn't approve of some things about it.
 
The battle system. That alone did it for me. All you do is press attack once and randomly run around and heal yourself every so often. It didn't seem very strategical to me like the other battle systems SE has thrown at us. After the amazing battle system in FFX2 (which was one of the FEW things I liked in FFX2), I expected something better in FFXII.
 
1. The battle system...it just didn't work for me at all. I feel like the game could have definitely benefited from a different system...I give them props for trying something new but at the same time this one just really didn't work.

2. The storyline. I feel that it was just all very political with little emphasis on the characters. I found my attention wandering a LOT during cutscenes...I feel if they had just made it more character oriented then it would have been a lot more interesting...which leads me into...

3. CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!!! For me what reallly makes an FF game is the characters...if I don't care about them I won't care about the game. The only character I really liked in this game was Balthier...and by association I thought Fran was kind of cool. Other than that they just left me feeling flat. Vaan was pretty much hitching along for the ride...the adventure and whatnot..and Penello was tagging along for him.

Ashe just...annoyed me...I remember one cutscene where she was giving her whole melodramatic she will put things to rights and it's her responsibility and her fallen kingdom etc. exposition speech AGAIN and Vaan cuts in to say something and she literally cuts him off, makes him be quiet and keeps on going. She was just too...princessy. Basch....well..I won't lie I forgot he was there for a good majority of the game.

Now at the beginning I was okay that I was hesitant about the characters...because I was expecting there to be a lot of growth as there usually is in the games. Some of my favourite FF characters annoyed the hell out of me in the beginning of their games. I just feel like there wasn't development for anyone....and usually in these games there's a really clear bond that's formed by the end of the journey and you can see how close they all are.....by the end I didn't really feel that at all...I think it just could have used a lot more characterization.

Even if just the character development had been worked on more as opposed to the battle system I think it really would have benifited...I'll put up with a lot for a good character driven story :)
 
I'm going to go with what a lot of people have mentioned and say character development. I feel like I know just as much about some of the sidequest NPCs as I do the playable characters, and that pisses me off :mokken: They should have either scrapped half of the long-winded political cutscenes and replaced them with backstory-developing ones, or just made the game longer.
 
I think that events in the story could have happened in a different order. Like, maybe Vaan meets Ashe before Balthier so there would be interaction between them (they are the main characters). In the streets of Rabinastre could have been interesting because of Ashe's snobbiness, it wold have been interesting to see her trying to interact with commoners. (she wouldn't have been street smart)

It was annoying how Vaan took her crap. When she silenced him for speaking, I wish that he would have snapped back at her. I was actually hoping for some character development from her where she learns to treat those "below her" with more respect.


And get rid of the whole Basche "that was my twin brother!" he just sounded like a desparate criminal trying to get out of trouble. Would it have been so bad if the king was a traitor?

And Vaan and Penelo acted like two fifteen year olds about to start high school, not like two kids that grew up on the streets. Their innocense seemed out of place.

I also thought it could have been interesting if there was more to Penelo, like we find out that she is from an ancient race or has a special power no one else has... yeah I know cliche but it would have added another interesting moment in an already bland game.

I never finished the game but a major event not politically related would have been nice. It would have been fun to watch Rabinastre get destroyed during a battle. (And I apologize if this did in fact happen)

Also, give us a real antagonist that is present through most of the story. Most of the judges were killed shortly after they were introduced and there was almost no development from any of them. And plus they look like gundams =P
 
The only real complaint I have about FFXII was how goddamn boring the story was.

Other than that, I've never really had an issue with FFXII. The gameplay has always seemed pretty solid to me.
 
I agree with everything mentioned here. Vaan shouldnt have been the lead, he was far too weak to be the lead role. The story could have been less boring lol, I swtiched off when they started talking politics. Dont do it in real life, so pixels have no chance. Battle system should have been good old turn based. I can understand trying something new, but when youve used turn based for about 15 years and its popular, maybe you should stick with it?
 
CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT thats all i will say


Please put more effort into your post and say why that could have been improved. Cheers.
 
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I quite agree with the aforementioned ideas - bar the political hate though. I actually liked the presence of political elements because I'm an avid politics student. :ryan:

Anyway, I would have liked SE to have done something more to Vaan and Penelo. As I said before in another thread, the pair of them are really nothing special. They seem to be the typical JRPG cliches molded into characters. There aren't really anything special about them other than the fact that they are orphans. They are childhood friends. One happens to be a young boy, the other a girl. They simply spectate in the storyline. I would have liked some more depth to them. They seem too shallow - especially Vaan, the game's pseudo-protagonist. What is there that I should really be caring about them? What is the point of them?

I have an issue with the Espers. They are rather pathetic and the more powerful ones require a bit of figuring out to use their ultimate finishers. You fight them - they seem strong, but when you get them, they seem to suddenly weaken for you. They could have at least made them more worth getting. I didn't like many of the dungeons either. Some (Pharos, ahem) are excruciatingly long and are mainly copy-and-paste in terms of visuals. I came across a corridor and I could have sworn that I have seen this corridor fifty times already.

Finally - the Judge Magisters. I wanted to see more of them. We only vaguely see them (Gabranth could have had more screentime) before most of them die. The scene with Drace could have been better if we know Drace more as a character. The Judges just seem to be "filler in" villains. Al-Cid Margrace. Now he needed more screentime as well.
 
I absolutely loved FFXII - excluding VIII, its probably my favourite FF game. But, as for improvements...

+ I would really have liked to have seen more Vayne. He was like a combination of Hamlet and Claudius, in a world that belonged to Polonius. He had incredible potential, but it really was squandered due to lack of appearance.
+ As has already been said...Vaan really shouldn't have been in the game. He was completely out of place. Playing as Balthier or Ashe would have made infinitely more sense. Hell, even Basche would have been the better choice. Any of those three would have been brilliant - they had some interesting backstories and personalities. The entire cast all tied together, except for Vaan and, by extension, Penelo. Two kids caught up in a maelstrom of events far too big for their comprehension. Why did we need them? We really didn't.
+ Damn the Occuria. That was horrendously out of place in the storyline. FFXII has a brilliant setting in Ivalice - everything is dictated by in-depth, thoroughly brilliant politics. Where the hell do Ringwraith-like Gods come into all this? They don't. A simple outwitting of Vayne's political machinations would have more than sufficed for the dramatic climax of this game. We did NOT need him turning into Megatron and going randomly insane.
+ I also think that Cid was wasted. "Gee Venat, whaddya wanna do tonight?", "The same thing we do every night, Cid...TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!"...he was an interesting character, who was completely wasted as well...
+ ...take out the ability to run from Yiazmat any time you please. That really spoiled it. 50 million health, and you can just run in and out. It'd be theoretically possible (albeit extremely hard) to kill Yiazmat without ever levelling up. What kind of superboss is that? >.>
 
To make FFXII better, I think that they could have added better NP's. When I get them, I would usually go around and level up, thinking that they would be alot of help, but alas they weren't. Reddas would always set off traps, and Larsa would die before he could be any help with his hi-potions.
 
I think the battle system was a bit dull. I also think that game really lacked the usual (in my opinion) BA look final fantasy characters tend to have.
 
I actually love XII's battle system, and I love the fact that they got rid of random encounters (and thank God they continued with that in the XIII).

But the thing I would change is the story. It was just so dull to me where I just wanted to skip over the cut scenes and go back to fighting the battles which was pretty much the only thing that kept me playing.

Also the characters seemed to lack close connections to each other unlike past FF games. I guess Penelo and Vaan had connections, so did Fran and Balthier...but that was pretty much it. And others have mentioned the lack of character development which I can understand. There was very little character development in the game. The most probably coming from Ashe.
 
I would say character development lacked but I don't think it was across the board or that developing some characters beyond what they were would be germaine to the story.

- Vaan: He was a street child who lost his parents and brother to the war. What happened before the events as Nabudis/Nalbina through the present would be somewhat inconsequntial given his age. I don't see him as the main character after 10-12 hours or so in so far as the focus of the story. The story seemed to be told over his shoulder, and he had substantial pieces in the dialouge, but I thought he story developed around Balthier/Ashe/Basch much moreso. Same with Penelo - she Vaan with a matronly instinct.

- Ashe: Again, not sure any elements of her royal upbringing would have been all that relevant - maybe as she was made aware of her lineage and relation to the Dynast-King and her training as a warrior.

- Fran: Meh...her tribe lived in isolation and she defected. Maybe would have been nice to learn more about why and how she and Bathier hooked up but I can't say it keeps me awake at night.

- Bathier: Now here's a big gap. Former judge who's father is the mastermind behind manufacted nethecite, its military applications, and the vessel for the defected Venat's plan to return the fate of the world into hands of man. But we get a rabbit-humping sky pirate with a hidden agenda. Would have loved to have see flashbacks to cover the spawn of all these events, as well as tying into Zecht/Reddas' involvement at Nabudis, and what brought him to the palace vault.

- Basch: Would have been nice to see back when Landis existed and be given more background on he and his brother's decision to align with different countries.

- Vayne: The generic rise to power backgroud would have been a plus considering the murder of his brothers.

I would have shortened some of the journies and freed up a little time in the story to develop these - there were some areas that were awfully big that didn't play much of a role in the story (Golmore Jungle, Tchita Uplands, The Sandseas)....

Cut down on the number of Weapons/Armor in each class. Overkill.

Unless you did early leveling tricks or knew enough of how to get advanced weapons/armor early - most of the Espers were introduced after they were obselete from a usefulness standpoint.

Harder final boss. I can understand 1-2 optional bosses/marks being tougher but 10-15? Hell, Ashe et al could have just subcontracted their whole quest out.

Rozaria - Would be nice just to get a glimpse of the place.
 
I never liked the battle system. For one, it was too jarringly different to the battle systems in all the previous Final Fantasy games. I never like change, and I guess that is something I'll have to deal with, but I know I wasn't the only one who didn't like it.

I could never get the Gambit system to work for me properly, which was annoying. Controlling one character meant I had less control over the party, which was especially difficult to adjust to. There are certain situations where you just *need* to control the entire party.

I think FFXIII introduced a few elements that FFXII could have done with, specifically the Paradigm system. I'm not a big fan of either FFXII or FFXIII so far, but combining the best elements from both games would have given a fairly decent game.
 
They should have left the signature victory song that played after every battle! And added towns for side quests and buying weapons and items and stuff, instead of doing everything over save point..

I get that they're trying new things but those two ^^ should always be in Final Fantasy games!
 
katisupahfly said:
They should have left the signature victory song that played after every battle! And added towns for side quests and buying weapons and items and stuff, instead of doing everything over save point..

I get that they're trying new things but those two ^^ should always be in Final Fantasy games!
Click to expand...

I think you're referring to the wrong game here. :hmmm:

This topic is about how FFXII could have been better. As far as I know, the signature victory music does play after every battle and there are plenty of towns to visit in XII. xD
 
In FF XII, the character graphic designs were kinda awesome. I mean...Ashe and Fran, who could go wrong?

The development side irked me a little. the characters by the end of the game were virtually exactly like they were at the beginning. The story was centered around Ashe, period. Vaan didn't have much, if any actual story behind him except for the events at the very beginning of the game. Penelo didn't have anything to do with the story, so take her the hell out. Fran and Balthier were alright as far as character to story relationships go...I mean, they were simple theives just tagging along, I can think of much worse games that had much worse than this. Basch really was a tank, period.

I did like the wide(r) array of weapons, items and armours in the game, I'm always a fan of multiple character setups, and it wasn't rediculusly easy to max characters like it was in FF X. (stat wise, that is)

the battle system, albeit new to the series, was kinda crap. Being able to evade attacks and run away more effectively from regular fights would have been key. Moving around a monster while attacking didn't have any effect on the accuracy of the attack, the monster could have swung at mid air where you were and still hit you even though you are now behind him. Monsters hitting you in the back while you're trying to flee, or monsters lagging and hitting you from across the map was kinda rediculus, and at some points made me want to chuck my PS2 out of a window. That was the major fall point of this game, I think, and after all of these battles, it took an enormously long time to level up. I'm 90 some odd hours into my highest level game and I'm only level 65ish. Grinding is rediculus, similar to FF VII (I remember how long it took to level up in that, too)

I do like the grahics of this game, though. FF X, in my opinions, seemed too childlike in the way of grahics. I do like the side quests of this game as well. (well...hunts..really. Not much in the way of side quests like there were in other games)
 
Well,
For me the battle system was awesome, i have played FF7, FFX, FFX-2 and FFXII now, The first one i finished was FFX, A very long and tiring journey and many side quests which still up to now i have not finished fully and i don't think i will. Anyway - Final Fantasy 10's battle system was alot more slow, You were able to think, i'd say Final Fantasy 12 was more the same, But the main thing i liked about Final Fantasy 12's battle system as it did not have that cracking screen going off every 5 seconds. haha. :)

About Vaan. His story was not fully explored and i would have liked to see more of him and his past, within the first hour of game play you find out that Vaan's brother Reks was killed... But that was really all i knew. other then the fact that he wanted to roam the sky's with freedom as Balthier and Fran had done.

I also would have liked to see some of the older "Aeons" / summonable monsters in Final Fantasy 12, But that's just my opinon.

Overall i think it's a great game otherwise!
Nice work! ;) 9/10.

Same with FF10 ;D!
 
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