Illegal Downloading

[Lord Kaos]

I'm not gonna be popular here with this viewpoint, but I'll chuck it up for discussion anyway:

I personally believe that if you pirate, you are in the mindframe that theft is completely fine if you can justify it in your own mind. "That price is too high, I'll just nab it off the shelf" kinda mentality.

Pirating is not theft, persay; if someone copies your homework, you don't lose your work. When this concept applied to businesses, the only thing being lost is opportunity for a sale. An opportunity is just that, not a tangible loss to the companies who have had their product pirated and torrented.
If a pirate doesn't have the funds to purchase the product, doesn't want to blindly go in and buy a product only to go through a refund process when they're not satisfied with it, or otherwise is unable or unwilling to get ahold of a particular file or product, there is no opportunity to lose in the first place. (Though the person who is unwilling, but able to purchase a product, is costing the company an opportunity for a profit. These people are the closest thing to thieves as you can be on the internet without sending malicious programs and worms to people to steal credit cards.)
This goes double for any media found on public domain, like Youtube. Once it enters the public domain, anyone who wants to listen to it can simply favorite the song, or arrange a playlist, and listen to the music at will.

On an unrelated note, I find it perfectly acceptable to pirate products of companies with asinine policies. (WMG, Anybody? Protecting things you have rights to from public domain is fine, but they have made a nuisance of themselves to more people than they could ever know, from messing with Youtubers' livelihoods to being a forerunner in SOPA) When you're indiscriminately punishing people who legitimately purchase your products, and lobbying to keep doing it, you deserve a hole in your profit margin. That's activism.

 

[greenyxi]

Pirating is not theft, persay; if someone copies your homework, you don't lose your work.

There's a difference here. Homework isn't something that will earn money, whereas a sale would. It's 100% still theft, because you are still taking a product without paying. There's no difference other than the fact that you don't physically take an item from a physical store.

It doesn't matter how bad the company policies are or whatever people use to persuade themselves to steal a game/song/anything. You just don't do it. If you need to see if you like a game before buying it, there are plenty more options to find out. Check a trailer, video review, demo, hell...wiki it . Check out a stream?

And again, if you don't like a game's price, wait for a few weeks and it's sorted. The price will go right down, whether it has to be pre-owned or not. Buying pre-owned will also be a way of stopping the game developers from getting so much money out of it too, I think.

 

[Ultimaja]

Personally, I do wind up going to Steam for the sake of purchasing games in this day and age. DLC does not cost as much as manufacturing a physical disk, thus the digital copies of the games are, indeed, cheaper to obtain. So hey, there is always the cheaper alternative rather than resorting to stealing.

Those disks are literally 3 cent a piece.
The actual value of raw hardware, like computer chips and so on, are nothing to what they are sold as.
Steam has it for cheap because they aren't that expensive. In fact, think about the fact of how Steam stays in business..

We are thoroughly raped by the tech industry. They steal from us.

 

[Lord Kaos]

There's a difference here. Homework isn't something that will earn money, whereas a sale would. It's 100% still theft, because you are still taking a product without paying. There's no difference other than the fact that you don't physically take an item from a physical store.

It doesn't matter how bad the company policies are or whatever people use to persuade themselves to steal a game/song/anything. You just don't do it. If you need to see if you like a game before buying it, there are plenty more options to find out. Check a trailer, video review, demo, hell...wiki it . Check out a stream?

And again, if you don't like a game's price, wait for a few weeks and it's sorted. The price will go right down, whether it has to be pre-owned or not. Buying pre-owned will also be a way of stopping the game developers from getting so much money out of it too, I think.

It was a comparison. You're not taking money or anything directly out of the pocket of the person(s) responsible for said product by pirating it, which is one of the base premises of theft. One party loses an object, or rights to it, another gains them.
A majority of trailers are borderline fraudulent, designed to generate hype for products that fall flat on their face. Battlefield 3 and 4's release week, and SimCity 5 are great examples, and I can list another ten off the top of my head... Also, that concept cannot conceivably apply to pirating operating systems, songs, programs, and a lot of other things that do not have a trial, a 'lets play' series, or reliable reviews, which the most commonly pirated software does not.

Does "Let's Play Microsoft Office", or "Lets Play Winrar" sound appealing to anyone? I think I found an untapped market.

 

[greenyxi]

It was a comparison. You're not taking money or anything directly out of the pocket of the person(s) responsible for said product by pirating it, which is one of the base premises of theft. One party loses an object, or rights to it, another gains them.
A majority of trailers are borderline fraudulent, designed to generate hype for products that fall flat on their face. Battlefield 3 and 4's release week, and SimCity 5 are great examples, and I can list another ten off the top of my head... Also, that concept cannot conceivably apply to pirating operating systems, songs, programs, and a lot of other things that do not have a trial, a 'lets play' series, or reliable reviews, which the most commonly pirated software does not.

Does "Let's Play Microsoft Office", or "Lets Play Winrar" sound appealing to anyone? I think I found an untapped market.

You may not be directly taking money from them, but you aren't giving them the money they deserve for making the product either. Isn't that essentially the same thing?

Fraudulent trailers? This is because they show their product in a positive light, right? I don't think they'd show the bugs or negative aspects personally .

There are certainly OS demos out there, or videos showing the functions of them on Youtube. All a Let's Play is is a runthrough of a game. There are certainly runthroughs of every major piece of software out there. i.e. you can click this, edit here, etc. Videos showing the capabilities of the software.

Hey hey! No need for sarcasm sir! . I am way too lovable to be mean to .

 

[Lord Kaos]

You may not be directly taking money from them, but you aren't giving them the money they deserve for making the product either. Isn't that essentially the same thing?

Fraudulent trailers? This is because they show their product in a positive light, right? I don't think they'd show the bugs or negative aspects personally .

There are certainly OS demos out there, or videos showing the functions of them on Youtube. All a Let's Play is is a runthrough of a game. There are certainly runthroughs of every major piece of software out there. i.e. you can click this, edit here, etc. Videos showing the capabilities of the software.

Hey hey! No need for sarcasm sir! . I am way too lovable to be mean to .

No, far from it. Its a lost opportunity. If someone does not have the ability to sample your product before they buy it, they will not buy it. If they will not buy it, there is no sale to lose. You are not taking anything out of anyone's pockets.
If you go to a car lot that don't offer test drives, and the people there expect you to just buy a car at face value, you have a responsibility to be suspicious about them, not blindly trusting. Nine times out of ten there's something wrong with what they're selling you. A showroom demo does not show all of the possibilities, flaws, quirks, or benefits of a product, nor does it allow a consumer to take a objective look at a product.

Questions an average consumer should be asking before they make a purchase are "Is this fun? Do I find the mechanics and story of this game interesting and captivating? Will I become frustrated with this product because of the learning curve? Can this program suit my individual needs for my project/business?" These questions are not questions a reviewer can answer for you, 100% of the time.

And yes, a company should not be flaunting flaws of it's products, but when the people paid to promote- Reviewers are included in this group, many are on a payroll or have an interest in the success of the product they are reviewing- overlook massive, game breaking flaws in AAA titles, like Battlefield 4, there is a massive problem. BF4s launch has definitely damaged the reputation of EA and DICE, and put a huge dent into their sales, but that's not the point; When those with the most to lose use underhanded tactics to sell a product that should be selling itself, that should be a major sign to an informed consumer they should be taking any and all precautions before they invest limited time and money into a product they cannot be sure about without trying it for themselves.
A consumer should be deeply concerned with the state of the market, unsympathetic to the companies that have made these practices a standard, and unwilling to give profit to the companies that utilize these underhanded tactics. That is the basis of a free market.

 

[Ultimaja]

All I can say is that if I made millions of dollars of profit, even thereafter paying off the staff, material, and all essentials it took to make something and deploy it out to the public, and then went back and harassed people for *pirating* the product even though I'm milking them even more on DLC's and online content..

I would be afraid of going to Hell. I would be outright fearing judgement.
Because that is low down, dirty greed worthy of a mighty flame. An ultimate ass kick in divine balance.

Assess that, and then talk about the morality of not stealing, or 'supporting' them on their 'works'.
Philosophically speaking, you are really feeding a demon, and it could be said that pirating is in fact more virtuous then buying.

Put that in your holy canon of thought

#winnage

 

[Galadín]

I cannot help but see the irony of calling record companies and game producers greedy for the amount of money they make, then justifying the theft of their products simply because people want to have what these companies produce. It's an "I want it all and I want it now- but cannot afford all I want" scenario, which of course is greed from the other side of the fence.

 

[Ultimaja]

I cannot help but see the irony of calling record companies and game producers greedy for the amount of money they make, then justifying the theft of their products simply because people want to have what these companies produce. It's an "I want it all and I want it now- but cannot afford all I want" scenario, which of course is greed from the other side of the fence.

A guy who is tied up in finances and whose desire overpowers them into pirating a game.. is not as guilty as A FUCKING MULTI MILLIONAIRE GOING AFTER CRUMBS TRYING TO TREAT THAT PERSON AS A CRIMINAL.

So let irony be irony, and work just as hard for 1/100000th of the money they make. Hats off to you sir, you are such an obedient citizen. Who are we to rob, it is our place to be robbed!

 

[Galadín]

A guy who is tied up in finances and whose desire overpowers them into pirating a game.. is not as guilty as A FUCKING MULTI MILLIONAIRE GOING AFTER CRUMBS TRYING TO TREAT THAT PERSON AS A CRIMINAL.

So let irony be irony, and work just as hard for 1/100000th of the money they make. Hats off to you sir, you are such an obedient citizen. Who are we to rob, it is our place to be robbed!

I have no idea why or how you feel we are being robbed? These companies are not holding you at gun point demanding you to spend money on their product. If a person cannot afford something, you simply don't have it, it doesn't give one the right to go and take it.

Put it to you this way. I cannot afford a lovely, flashy, sports car. Now just because car manufacturers are filthy rich does not justify me going ahead and helpig myself to one of their cars.
But wait...they're "robbing" me because it's an expensive car to buy?

 

[Ultimaja]

I have no idea why or how you feel we are being robbed? These companies are not holding you at gun point demanding you to spend money on their product. If a person cannot afford something, you simply don't have it, it doesn't give one the right to go and take it.

Put it to you this way. I cannot afford a lovely, flashy, sports car. Now just because car manufacturers are filthy rich does not justify me going ahead and helpig myself to one of their cars.
But wait...they're "robbing" me because it's an expensive car to buy?

Well, you're not taking anything. You are taking a replica of something. That is what pirating is. Nobody is losing anything out of it.

It's corporate greed. You'd rather condemn pirating then billionaires, and that's more concerning then, well, both those things really. It shows how helpless the laity of aristocrats are.
You're life is literally limited because of their greed. 80% of all your money goes to somebody's pure profit.
You are being robbed. Welcome to the world.

 

[Galadín]

Well, you're not taking anything. You are taking a replica of something. That is what pirating is. Nobody is losing anything out of it.

It's corporate greed. You'd rather condemn pirating then billionaires, and that's more concerning then, well, both those things really. It shows how helpless the laity of aristocrats are.
You're life is literally limited because of their greed. 80% of all your money goes to somebody's pure profit.
You are being robbed. Welcome to the world.

I just hope the hilarity of this is not lost on people.

In other words:
Corporate greed is more evil than individual greed
Making a profit on your products is equal to robbing people
Replicating other people's products is not stealing
Not having potential sales due to pirating sites ain't so bad because you're not losing anything by it
Pirates are moral, stand-up citizens as compared to billionaires- don't condemn them!

...and he says I'm losing touch with reality?

 

[Ultimaja]

I just hope the hilarity of this is not lost on people.

In other words:
Corporate greed is more evil than individual greed
Making a profit on your products is equal to robbing people
Replicating other people's products is not stealing
Not having potential sales due to pirating sites ain't so bad because you're not losing anything by it
Pirates are moral, stand-up citizens as compared to billionaires- don't condemn them!

...and he says I'm losing touch with reality?

When something has a raw value of 2 dollars and you're selling it for 70, you are a greedy asshole and a thief, using people's desire to rape their pockets- so they can sit on a golden toilet and go after you for downloading copies that have absolutely no loss on them.

Don't agree with that? Then that's fine. I find you hilarious to.

 

[Toshiya]

When something has a raw value of 2 dollars and you're selling it for 70, you are a greedy asshole and a thief, using people's desire to rape their pockets- so they can sit on a golden toilet and go after you for downloading copies that have absolutely no loss on them.

Don't agree with that? Then that's fine. I find you hilarious to.

That's how business works. The stuff you buy in supermarkets is worth a fraction of what they sell it for as well its not just the entertainment industry that make a profit.
Downloading things DOES give the companies losses... if you didn't download something illegally but wanted it you'd pay for it, therefore you illegally downloading it means the companies lose out. Think about it... are you saying its okay for EVERYONE to download things illegally and for nobody to pay? Because then, the companies would never make any money. No, its not okay is it. So why should some people pay for the legit copies of the games/DVDs/CDs, only to have some other people get them for free?
Also, yes the companies may get big profits, but the fact is, they produce the games, tweak the games, put the games on disc and then sell for profit. Same with music/films/tv shows. You can't exactly make your own... so you pay for the privelige of playing/listening/watching ones that are made. If they're expensive then tough tits. I'd like to eat luxury food every day and have a macbook pro... but I can't afford those things so I eat Morissons savers food and have a really shitty laptop. Hey, thats life :dave:

 

[Shaissa]

Basically how can you not find it wrong to steal someones thoughts, ideas and products, but find it wrong for someone to charge whatever they feel is fair for that product?

They have people to take care of, cost to ship the product, to put it out there, It is your choice to buy it or not. You can make a statement by...hmm NOT BUYING IT! I know this is a crazy idea... just simply not buying a product might make them lower the cost...

Don't say that making millions is wrong but stealing isn't... because Pirating is stealing in the end.

 

[greenyxi]

Making a profit = stealing. No logic whatsoever. A company isn't stealing anything and so is not a thief. A person isn't paying for a product (physical or not) so is a thief.

Stealing 101.

 

[Ultimaja]

Making a profit = stealing. No logic whatsoever. A company isn't stealing anything and so is not a thief. A person isn't paying for a product (physical or not) so is a thief.

Stealing 101.

Stealing is subjective. You exploit people, make millions of dollars, prosecute people who really haven't stolen anything, just enjoyed a copy of something that has already been milked for enough money to run a small city for a year..

*just business* right?
Well so is pirating. It's just fucking business. No more immoral then sneaking into the back of a movie theater.


Do yall enjoy kissing billion dollar ass, or is it that you all have your heads up yours about me because I have different views? You all need to get over that shit and quick.

 

[Toshiya]

Stealing is subjective. You exploit people, make millions of dollars, prosecute people who really haven't stolen anything, just enjoyed a copy of something that has already been milked for enough money to run a small city for a year..

*just business* right?
Well so is pirating. It's just fucking business. No more immoral then sneaking into the back of a movie theater.


Do yall enjoy kissing billion dollar ass, or is it that you all have your heads up yours about me because I have different views? You all need to get over that shit and quick.

They're not exploiting people. Selling a product you or someone who works for you has put a lot of time into developing, editing, and marketing is not exploiting people... nobody is being forced to buy it.
Pirating is stealing, not a business... just because it's doing it digitally doesn't make it not stealing. It's like shoplifting but for online shopping.
As for that point I'd consider sneaking into a cinema immoral... I pay enough to money to go and see films to expect everyone else to have to pay as well.

If you were to apply your argument to every industry, then you'd never pay for anything again to avoid 'kissing billion dollar ass'. Entertainment isn't the only rich industry... how about paying lots for clothing, food, furniture? The people at the top of the trees will always earn lots of cash. Doesn't mean you can steal things you want just because you'd be too skint to afford them normally.

 

[Ultimaja]

Pirating isn't stealing, because it's just an image of the original thing.
So if one can replicate a pair of pants, one wouldn't be stealing those pants- the pants are still there, nothing has been stolen

So yall fucking lose, with all that extra lip you all got going on today. Peace out. Have fun telling how pirating is somehow more immoral then exploiting people for enough money to run a small city.

 

[Shaissa]

Pirating isn't stealing, because it's just an image of the original thing.
So if one can replicate a pair of pants, one wouldn't be stealing those pants- the pants are still there, nothing has been stolen.

If you go out buy the stuff to make that pair of pants...then no it isn't stealing... you made it yourself, but pirating is the same thing. You are digitally stealing it. If I went online right now stole your bank account number, and bought a bunch of stuff off, let say Amazon, would you not call it stealing because all I did was have an "image" of your bank account numbers?

Also stop with the cussing and flaming of people. No need for it, this is just a discussion thread!