In regards to substance intake.

thanks for the enlightenment :ohoho:

i have fucking massive cojones, im surprised you havent seen them during one of your epic enlightening trips, moogle lama.

judging from the responses so far no one shares your "unique" disposition. people dont pay money to ponder the meaning of life, they use drugs as a means of escape. if you like meditating so much why not try doing it without your estrogen (or whatever you called it) then you can reap all the benefits of meditation and suffer none of the negative effects of the englightening substance.

also, in a previous post you mentioned mr gates and steve jobs doin' "mad" acid; its quite clear as to how englightened they are now. so enlightened they need millions (or billions) to be content and have said millions (or billions) at the expense of most of the world.

as for drinking, i agree with lew, i think drinking becomes a problem when you genuinely believe its solving your problems and not just getting you away from them for a bit. permanent escapism is death, addiction is a path to permanent escape.:hmmm:
 
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Jimmeh said:
judging from the responses so far no one shares your "unique" disposition. people dont pay money to ponder the meaning of life, they use drugs as a means of escape.
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I always roll eyes when people say that folk take drugs to escape. :lew:
Cant someone just do it because they enjoy it?
Like someone enjoys playing video games or listening to music. That may sound like a weird comparison buts its almost the same thing to some degree. Just with drugs theres more things to be aware of and harsher consequences sometimes. Phoenix downs dont work in real life ya know.
 
but you enjoy it because it gets you away from the dullness (if thats the right word) of life? you dont just enjoy something, there are always reasons.

i know when i go for a drink itll make me more sociable...up to a point :wacky: but i get something out of it, yeah i like a pint or a nip, but i also like being slightly enhanced jim instead of dull jim. though if i did it all the time id be slightly dead jim.
 
@Jimmeh: I meditate every day, sober. I got into meditation and subsequently developed an interest in astral projection, the third eye, etc., more spiritual aspects of existence because of my initial interest in psychedelics.

I realized "Hey, I was able to have an out-of-body experience in an altered state of conciousness... Now it's time to learn how to acheive it sober". Which I have ^__^! I don't just meditate on drugs, I meditate constantly as it is a very huge part of my life.

By the way, I said entheogens, not estrogen. rofl. TWO DIFFERENT THINGS BUDDY XD
 
Jimmeh said:
but you enjoy it because it gets you away from the dullness (if thats the right word) of life? you dont just enjoy something, there are always reasons.

i know when i go for a drink itll make me more sociable...up to a point :wacky: but i get something out of it, yeah i like a pint or a nip, but i also like being slightly enhanced jim instead of dull jim.
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The dullness? You cant compare your reasons with everyone elses though but i do see where your coming from. That in that sense, that logic would apply to everything and not just drugs/alchol etc etc. If you see where im coming from. I think its a subject you cant get any real answer to, like most other things oppinons get in the way. I just hink people read into it a little too much, which is kinda obvious by reading this thread :lew:
 
dull isnt the right word but i know you know what i mean and i think i know what you mean :hmph:.

when bams make threads like this asking you to analyse your habits you tend to find yourself reading into stuff too much (me speaking for everyone again :lew:).:mokken:

but drinking/doing drugs as a means of "escape" could mean lots of things...could be to forget your problems for a bit or just to lose you inhibitions doesn't necessarily have to be a woe is me thing.
 
I believe that Marijuana should be completely legal, with the restrictions as that of alcohol. Msuhrooms and acid are a different story. While I'm all for trippin ballz, I think the restriciton on these two should be greater, considering that too much acid can kill you, and with both substances there is the posability of a relapse, witch in the haullcinogin world means yo ucan suddently start tripping again for no reason. I do think that mushrooms can open up ones mind to greater reaches, but people must be able to understand how to use such knowlegde that can be gained by such usage. Now is that to say that some people should not use them? No. I do think however that mushrooms are not for eveeryone and should be taken with respect.

When it comes to other drugs such as heroin, meth, ect ect. I don't see the real need for them. Yes they can make you feel totally awesome im sure, but the health risk that comes with them is much greater then the previous mentoned. Am i saying the yshould be totally illegal? Yes and no. If someone wants to try meth all the power to them, i just think the yshould know what can come of such use before hand.

Drugs can be very fun and mind expanding, and they can be your grave.
 
M1ghty Mous3 said:
I believe that Marijuana should be completely legal, with the restrictions as that of alcohol. Msuhrooms and acid are a different story. While I'm all for trippin ballz, I think the restriciton on these two should be greater, considering that too much acid can kill you, and with both substances there is the posability of a relapse, witch in the haullcinogin world means yo ucan suddently start tripping again for no reason. I do think that mushrooms can open up ones mind to greater reaches, but people must be able to understand how to use such knowlegde that can be gained by such usage. Now is that to say that some people should not use them? No. I do think however that mushrooms are not for eveeryone and should be taken with respect.

When it comes to other drugs such as heroin, meth, ect ect. I don't see the real need for them. Yes they can make you feel totally awesome im sure, but the health risk that comes with them is much greater then the previous mentoned. Am i saying the yshould be totally illegal? Yes and no. If someone wants to try meth all the power to them, i just think the yshould know what can come of such use before hand.

Drugs can be very fun and mind expanding, and they can be your grave.
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Personally I'm for the legalisation of all drugs, why should someone regulate what you can and can't do with your own body. Plus Alcohol and Cigarettes are perfectly legal as long as you are 18, and both of them can kill you, Alcohol doesn't even have to take a long time to kill you. Governments already hand out methadone to addicts. But this another debate.

My point is short is, I don't think you can claim that taking drugs actually gives you elightenment etc. That's something you have to work at, the idea that it's possible to ingest something transcend seems untrue.
 
M1ghty Mous3 said:
I believe that Marijuana should be completely legal, with the restrictions as that of alcohol. Msuhrooms and acid are a different story. While I'm all for trippin ballz, I think the restriciton on these two should be greater, considering that too much acid can kill you, and with both substances there is the posability of a relapse, witch in the haullcinogin world means yo ucan suddently start tripping again for no reason. I do think that mushrooms can open up ones mind to greater reaches, but people must be able to understand how to use such knowlegde that can be gained by such usage. Now is that to say that some people should not use them? No. I do think however that mushrooms are not for eveeryone and should be taken with respect.

When it comes to other drugs such as heroin, meth, ect ect. I don't see the real need for them. Yes they can make you feel totally awesome im sure, but the health risk that comes with them is much greater then the previous mentoned. Am i saying the yshould be totally illegal? Yes and no. If someone wants to try meth all the power to them, i just think the yshould know what can come of such use before hand.

Drugs can be very fun and mind expanding, and they can be your grave.
Click to expand...

I agree with almost everything you said.. except you're misinformed about LSD. LSD cannot kill you, and by "relapse" you mean flashback; yes, LSD is wellknown for inducing flashbacks. That is why I don't do LSD, I do LSA: natural acid. It is a bit less potent than LSD but the health risks are VASTLY diminished.
 
moogles on mescaline said:
I agree with almost everything you said.. except you're misinformed about LSD. LSD cannot kill you, and by "relapse" you mean flashback; yes, LSD is wellknown for inducing flashbacks. That is why I don't do LSD, I do LSA: natural acid. It is a bit less potent than LSD but the health risks are VASTLY diminished.
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Hmm. I was informed by two different parties that LSD can and cannot kill you.

And flashbacks/relapse, same thing.
 
M1ghty Mous3 said:
I believe that Marijuana should be completely legal, with the restrictions as that of alcohol.

Mushrooms and acid are a different story. While I'm all for trippin ballz, I think the restriciton on these two should be greater, considering that too much acid can kill you, and with both substances there is the posability of a relapse, witch in the haullcinogin world means yo ucan suddently start tripping again for no reason.
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I think the reason why they don't legalise it is the fact that it is three times more likely you will develop schizophrenia heres the link to 1 such study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16319402?dopt=Abstract

How much truth is in it is for you to gleen.

Those flashbacks are because they stay in your system forever and can eventually make its way back to your brain giving you a trip. :confused:
 
eh I dont think they should legalize any of it since it tends to not only affect themselves, but other people as well. Any drug user can sit here and argue and say it only affects them, it's their body, but truth be told, alot of people die each year because of accidents from people on drugs (alcohol including, which is why I also think it shouldnt be legal), or they drastically shorten their own life or quality of life, which in turn affects people in so many ways.
 
I honestly don't think some drugs are as dangerous as they are made out to be. A lot of medical problems that are associated with drug intake is more of a media hype in my opinion. I could go on a whole diatribe about how the reasoning is all government related, but in light of staying on topic and out of politics in general, I'll keep on the drug intake topic.

There are many reasons drugs are used, even though people know the possible effects of them. It's unfortunate, but the society we live in here at this time, tends to have a lot of "suicidal" teens. What I mean is, it's almost trendy now to act like you don't care about life and want it to end. The truth of the matter is, they are either afraid to grow up and accept life or they want to fit into a group (the other "suicidal" kids). Knowing what the effects of drugs may have, they start to use them to fit the profile.

For the others that dislike the events going on in their life, they resort to drugs as an escape. Drugs and booze, tend to be a way to escape their life, even if temporarily they can relieve the pain they are suffering emotionally. These are the ones who will overdose when things really start to get sour in life.

And another group of people to do drugs are the ones who are pressured into it. Peer pressure can come in many forms, but all of them involve a person who is introduced to the drug world involuntarily. But if it's an addictive drug that's in question, this could turn the person into a junkie in time.

I honestly don't see a major problem in drugs, especially marijuana. I mean, marijuana has never been linked to death, but we tend to classify these people as "drugies". It really isn't any of our business to tell people what they should and shouldn't do with their lives. If they feel the need to spend lots of money on drugs, and the effect of the drugs can be bad, who am I to tell them they have to clean up their act? They will do the drugs regardless of who tells them they can't.
 
I wouldn't say that the drugs themselves are whats going to kill you, but rather, mixing and using them wrongly or for the wrong reasons. Then, it is more of a matter of the event of things, a person's mindset, etc. Just recently a friend of mind was on psilocybin mushrooms attempting to break into a house when the police confronted and tased him. I'm not exactly sure what it was, the sole purpose to end his life, but I'm pretty sure being on some serious drugs like that and having that much voltage going through ones body was not very good. He just stopped breathing.

Had he not been on shrooms, I'm quite sure he wouldn't have been breaking into that house or scaring the people inside and having them to contact authorities. Unfortunately, it did happen. It was a choice he made to take those drugs and he accepted the consequences unconsciously or not. Now he's dead.

Hence my blame on both the drug, which is the catalyst and the individual choosing to take them.
 
Drugs may not kill you, but they make it easier to kill yourself.

I'd love to be free love and freedom and all that, but I've seen too many bad stories as the result of unbridled freedom. I believe in reasonable freedoms if such freedoms not cause undue stress to anyone, including the one doing the self-harm. Self-harm is generally a sign of severe mental illness and it's downright selfish of society to ignore an individual in need. They may technically have the right to do themselves harm, but I as a person wouldn't stand for it, unless I knew the harm wasn't permanet.

So I guess what I'm saying is that it's only alright in moderation. Like alcohol when you go too far people get hurt. This is a fact. Extremism in almost anyone is a dangerous thing and with a mind-altering substance you add in all the messed up chemical with an impressionable person you end up with a really bad combo. So while mild recreational use is acceptable in my eyes, anything excessive would be a no-no. I'm sure that's annoying and all, and makes me a stuck in the mud but I'd rather be a stuck in the mud than a cross in a grave.

/old lady rant
 
I haven't really seen anyone taking to moogles on mescaline's arguments here about using drugs for enlightenment.. But I don't think it's bullshit.

It isn't common (at least not any more), but a lot of people are spiritual; there are a lot of people that like to meditate.. Yoga is a form of meditation, a lot of martial arts involve meditation (I used to do them), and I've also paid a few visits to a woman I know who does Reiki, which is a very unique mind-involved practice. I know this doesn't seem to have anything to do with the use drugs, but I'm pretty sure that like way back in the day a bunch of the famous novelists, writers, composers we know of today (well, they'd be called "classic" or "classical" now) used to take a lot of different drugs, many hallucenogenic and psychedelic in order to find that "enlightenment" that here is being denounced which would compel them see things differently and observe things- all types of things, physical and mental- from a different perspective.

I do support moogles on mescaline's propositions here, and I don't think he is trying to justify his own drug use (why would he care to, anyway? he doesn't need anyone's approval here), but I think he is just trying to share something with people. He's trying to explore with others (in this thread) what he has been exploring himself.

Now when it comes to whether or not substance intake is bad.. well, of course it is. But not completely. With all drugs, even weak depressants like marijuana and such, it's give and take. You sacrifice your health for whatever the drug offers (this does include alcohol to an extent). Most people do not like to make this gamble, some do. Both choices in my opinion are fine. Drugs are illegal, yes, but we still have personal freedom. We can get our hands on them should we strive to.

The keys in being safe (and not to mention other people who've made very good points about not harming or negatively affecting others) I think are moderation, of course, and wisdom. And then there are the choices (which are once again, to each his own).

I would not be into the kinds of drugs moogles on mescaline based the thread on.

I personally am a heavy 'thinker' person, I don't mean to claim I'm smart, but that I just spend a lot of time wondering about things and pondering things, going into deep philosophical thought more often than I even care to (or want to, it is habitual).
Therefore, doing drugs to find further 'enlightenment' is not of interest to me. Instead, I prefer (when I do take drugs, which I'd gauge as relatively often) taking things that, like you said, alter moods and feelings. Things that take the edge off, or give me a nice perky lift, or take physical pain away. Mainly stimulants.
This doesn't have to change my opinion though, because I really respect the ideas moogles on mescaline has been offering.

(Maybe I won't sound very convincing either as the only two people who share this opinion have usernames that advocate drugs. Ah, well.. my two cents is here ^_^)
 
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