Is Seymour the real main villian?

Yu Yevon is clearly the main villain. He invented the false religion of Yevon, selfishly created Dream Zanarkand by having many of his people self sacrifiice, and created Sin to solidify his power. Not only that but he is the one who REALLY controls Sin. Though Jecht might have "been" Sin, he only created the physical manifestation of it by being Braska's Final Aeon. Like Bahamut's fayth said, "Yu Yevon wears Sin (Jecht) like armor". Seymour was just a guy who was negatively affected by the repercussions of Yevonism (his mom became gave her life become a fayth) and lost his mind in result. He only worked in the storyline to show the party the corrupt and vile ways of Yevonism, which ultimately changed Yuna's mind regarding the Final Summoning (along with Tidus's and Rikku's insistence).
 
I don't know where people get the idea Yunalesca was "instructed" to do anything.

Is it from an Ultimania? Because this is all the game says on the matter:

Maechen: Rumors flew in Bevelle about Sin's sudden appearance. They said that the people of Zanarkand became the fayth, that they had called Sin. And that the man responsible... was none other than the summoner Yevon, ruler of Zanarkand! Yes, the lord father of Lady Yunalesca. On the eve of Zanarkand's destruction, Lady Yunalesca had fled to safety with her husband, Zaon. Later, the two used the Final Summoning to defeat Sin. Yet the people of Bevelle still feared Yu Yevon. It was to quell his wrath that they revered him, and first spread his teachings. And so were born the temples of Yevon.
I suppose it's possible Yunalesca had planned it that way from the start! A fair trade, she defeats Sin in exchange for her lord father's honor. Of course, there's no proof. No, the facts are lost in the mists of time. And who'd admit Yevon was an enemy of Bevelle? You can bet the temples had a hand in covering that one up! And that, as they say, is that.

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Yunalesca was just doing what she personally thought was right. She wasn't ordered to do it.

Of course, by the time the party meets her, I think a thousand years of being dead had taken its toll on her. She had begun to believe her own propaganda and was hopelessly lost in her twisted ideas of good.
 
No, he isn't the main threat, merely the thing that is backing up the main threat. He has all the makings of a main antagonist though.
 
Nikkolas said:
I don't know where people get the idea Yunalesca was "instructed" to do anything.

Is it from an Ultimania? Because this is all the game says on the matter:

Maechen: Rumors flew in Bevelle about Sin's sudden appearance. They said that the people of Zanarkand became the fayth, that they had called Sin. And that the man responsible... was none other than the summoner Yevon, ruler of Zanarkand! Yes, the lord father of Lady Yunalesca. On the eve of Zanarkand's destruction, Lady Yunalesca had fled to safety with her husband, Zaon. Later, the two used the Final Summoning to defeat Sin. Yet the people of Bevelle still feared Yu Yevon. It was to quell his wrath that they revered him, and first spread his teachings. And so were born the temples of Yevon.
I suppose it's possible Yunalesca had planned it that way from the start! A fair trade, she defeats Sin in exchange for her lord father's honor. Of course, there's no proof. No, the facts are lost in the mists of time. And who'd admit Yevon was an enemy of Bevelle? You can bet the temples had a hand in covering that one up! And that, as they say, is that.

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Yunalesca was just doing what she personally thought was right. She wasn't ordered to do it.

Of course, by the time the party meets her, I think a thousand years of being dead had taken its toll on her. She had begun to believe her own propaganda and was hopelessly lost in her twisted ideas of good.
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Not only Yunalesca planned that, but Yu Yevon did, too. In the eve of Zanarkand's destruction, Yunalesca fled with Zaon. Then Sin destroyed Zanarkand so that Yu Yevon wouldn't have lost his beloved city to the tyrants of Bevelle. And he was summoning Dream Zanarkand out at sea. If Bevelle had the technology to build mass destruction weapons such as Vegnagun, then they surely could build battleships that could find Dream Zanarkand and the war wouldn't have stopped. Yu Yevon was still alive inside of Sin when that happened. He still had control over Sin. Then, Bevelle's troops raided Mt. Gagazet in search of Zanarkand and found only ruins and a multitude of the fayth gathered at Mt. Gagazet. They were singing the Hymn of the Fayth. Of course Bevelle feared Yu Yevon, because it was also rumored that the people of Zanarkand became those fayth and called Sin. And Sin effortless and utterly destroyed Zanarkand. Of course he could do such to Bevelle, seeing as they were a major threat to Yu Yevon. So Bevelle cowered in fear and Yunalesca instructed them on the teachings she and her father created. This way, Bevelle would not be attacked by Sin and wouldn't leave the war exactly victorious, seen as Yu Yevon had built a copy of his city safe from the rest of the world and destroyed the original one himself so that he wouldn't suffer the humiliation of seeing it being destroyed by Bevelle's machina. That is why machina weapons are forbidden. That is why technology advancement is forbidden. So that people wouldn't drown in despair over Sin's existence and the death it would bring, Yunalesca spread that the only way to exorcise Sin was to atone for the past mistakes (creating mass destruction weapons and killing countless people with machina) or a summoner could go on a pilgrimage accompanied by at least one guardian and obtain the Final Aeon with her, that would kill Sin. And then she turns Zaon into her Final Aeon's fayth and demonstrates it. It takes a while for Sin to come back again, seeing as Yu Yevon is rearraging the Final Aeon's pyreflies, and she stays at the ruins of the Dome waiting for summoners to bestow them with the Final Aeon.
 
This may have been said a dozen times, but Seymour is just the dude you fight over and over again to keep the story moving along while saving the real suspense for the end. Just like Ultros, Jenova, Seifer, and Black Waltz/Beatrix before him.
 
nomad said:
This may have been said a dozen times, but Seymour is just the dude you fight over and over again to keep the story moving along while saving the real suspense for the end. Just like Ultros, Jenova, Seifer, and Black Waltz/Beatrix before him.
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The difference between Seymour and all these guys is that he was given a shitload of character development. We know why he is a villain, how he thinks about the world and that everything he does is because he believes that what he is doing is the right thing to do. Just like doing the wrong things for the right reasons.
 
Perhaps Ultros and Black Waltz didn't have too much character development (although all of the Black dudes in FFIX shared an interesting character development), but how can you say Seifer and Beatrix didn't have any character development? Especially Seifer. He was a much more round character than Seymour and probably had more lines in his respective game and played a larger role.
 
nomad said:
Perhaps Ultros and Black Waltz didn't have too much character development (although all of the Black dudes in FFIX shared an interesting character development), but how can you say Seifer and Beatrix didn't have any character development? Especially Seifer. He was a much more round character than Seymour and probably had more lines in his respective game and played a larger role.
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All we know about Seifer is that he also lived in the orphanage with the others of FFVIII main cast and that he forgot all that when he started junctioning GF to his mind. All we know about Beatrix is that she is a fearsome general who has killed a hundred men single-handedly and that she has been serving the Royal Family of Alexandria for 10 years (since she was 18).

What do we know about Seymour?

He was born to Jyscal Guado and an unnamed woman, probably called Anima herself because that is the name given to the aeon she originates and one of the only two aeons whose name is actually said by characters (especifically Seymour and Anima herself). Their marriage caused some strife among the Guado, who thought it was dreadful, and then the baby she bore was considered an abomination. To prevent further strife among them, Jyscal sent his wife and son to exile at Baaj Temple. We can see Anima's memory of a younger Seymour in an intact Baaj Temple's hall. Some time later, she contracts a disease and, in a last effort, wants her son to be recognized by the people: she doesn't want him to be an outcast. And so she takes Seymour to Zanarkand, maybe not necessarily taking him on a pilgrimage because he was a 10-year-old child and she was already dying. When he finds out the truth about her (that she is going to sacrifice herself), he beseeches her not to do it, because all he cares is to be with her and that he needs her to survive. It is clear that it doesn't work, because she does become a fayth. He never used her to defeat Sin. He knew that, if he died, he still wouldn't be able to see his mother on the Farplane. And so he runs away and stays all alone at Baaj Temple. And his mind starts working. His mother was suffering. She was terribly sick and in pain. The only way out she found was to die and end it all. So, he concluded, the only way to really stop pain and suffering is to kill one, for s/he will eventually be sent and rejoice with their lost ones at the Farplane with no worries. That obviously meant that, if everyone were to die, all suffering caused by Sin and Yevon's spiral of death would end. And he starts his plan. He knows that a person can become Sin through being a Final Aeon. His first step was to go back to Guadosalam, kill his father and take his post, and then find a suitable summoner who was truly set on defeating Sin and build a strong bond with him/her so that he would be a candidate to become this summoner's fayth. And he finds Yuna and tries to build such a bond with her, but she finds out about him and reverts to the usual treatment with him.
 
I could also summarize Seymour's story in a half of a sentence and write a long paragraph about Seifer; what's your point?

I guess I don't remember any of that because FFX was a snorefest.
 
I know Seifer's story enough to write a paragraph this big. But then I would go offtopic in a thread that is directed towards Seymour.

My point was that he does have quite a big role on the story: not as much as Yu Yevon, this guy was supreme; but Seymour had a big role and his story was told in detail. He has every single reason to clash with the party multiple times without making it hollow and just seem that he's that boring boss you fight a lot of times. He may be insane, but he's determined just like Yuna and he believes that what he's doing is for the greater good and sees all who tries to stop him as fools who suffer and deserve to die. This is his mentality and is shown through the game.
 
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