Is the ATB battle system really that innovative?
- Thread starter Guernsey
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Yes. There is no question it was innovative. It completely transformed the way the player interfaced with battles, by better quantifying your character's speed, while also placing a definite timer on your actions. When the system is in Active mode, there's a rush to pick commands swiftly, or face potentially fatal penalties. It theoretically pushes players to think on their feet, and gives the games a more organic feel. It's something that wasn't done before Final Fantasy.
The question isn't whether the system was innovative; it's whether the system was beneficial. While I myself love the system, one could argue that it continued to pull the J-RPG toward less strategic design. The type of strategy afforded by traditional turn-based battles and dense character stats to manipulate, doesn't mesh terribly well with action oriented design. The more action oriented, the more of a focus on pre-battle strategy and kinetic skill it needs to have (generally), because in-battle strategy becomes more and more unmanageable. In-battle strategy is better suited to games where you have all the time in the world to think things over, because when the player has more time to think, much more difficult and complex challenges can be presented to them. The ATB system severely limits the amount of time the player has to think (again, in Active mode), meaning Square slowly started to balance more toward easier and easier random battles. Don't get me wrong, FF1-3 (and most J-RPGs of the era) have pretty suckish balance anyway, erring way too much on the side of grinding for stats as a solution to any challenge. But one can argue that they still had greater in-battle strategic potential than anything offered by the ATB system at the time.
Final Fantasy X was the best the series ever got in terms of utilizing the idea of in-battle strategy, and it was not so surprisingly the one that removed the ATB system in favor of traditional turns. I feel that this is part of the reason that games like FFXII and FFXIII tried to consolidate and streamline obvious actions the player often had to perform. If it's obvious that you need to use ice magic on this enemy, because they're weak to ice... why would the player need to input those actions themselves, one by one? By cutting down on the time the player had to spend performing obvious actions, they then had more time to strategize in-battle, even with a form of the ATB system in play. They -without slowing battles down (in fact, they sped up further)- essentially married the ATB system with in-battle strategy, by giving the player more time to strategize while in the actual battle. This, along with several other changes, gave them the chance to once again heighten the challenge for the player in a lot of battles.
Like I said up top, I don't think there's a question that the ATB system had a huge impact and was a big change to the genre. But it has taken a long, long time to get to a place where the system is actually slotting in well with the rest of your regular J-RPG mechanical tropes.
The question isn't whether the system was innovative; it's whether the system was beneficial. While I myself love the system, one could argue that it continued to pull the J-RPG toward less strategic design. The type of strategy afforded by traditional turn-based battles and dense character stats to manipulate, doesn't mesh terribly well with action oriented design. The more action oriented, the more of a focus on pre-battle strategy and kinetic skill it needs to have (generally), because in-battle strategy becomes more and more unmanageable. In-battle strategy is better suited to games where you have all the time in the world to think things over, because when the player has more time to think, much more difficult and complex challenges can be presented to them. The ATB system severely limits the amount of time the player has to think (again, in Active mode), meaning Square slowly started to balance more toward easier and easier random battles. Don't get me wrong, FF1-3 (and most J-RPGs of the era) have pretty suckish balance anyway, erring way too much on the side of grinding for stats as a solution to any challenge. But one can argue that they still had greater in-battle strategic potential than anything offered by the ATB system at the time.
Final Fantasy X was the best the series ever got in terms of utilizing the idea of in-battle strategy, and it was not so surprisingly the one that removed the ATB system in favor of traditional turns. I feel that this is part of the reason that games like FFXII and FFXIII tried to consolidate and streamline obvious actions the player often had to perform. If it's obvious that you need to use ice magic on this enemy, because they're weak to ice... why would the player need to input those actions themselves, one by one? By cutting down on the time the player had to spend performing obvious actions, they then had more time to strategize in-battle, even with a form of the ATB system in play. They -without slowing battles down (in fact, they sped up further)- essentially married the ATB system with in-battle strategy, by giving the player more time to strategize while in the actual battle. This, along with several other changes, gave them the chance to once again heighten the challenge for the player in a lot of battles.
Like I said up top, I don't think there's a question that the ATB system had a huge impact and was a big change to the genre. But it has taken a long, long time to get to a place where the system is actually slotting in well with the rest of your regular J-RPG mechanical tropes.
I love this question
What ZaXo has given is closely a technical diagnosis about the various changes ATB have on the FF titles.
To embellish a little bit more..
Describing its impact on a gamer's relevance wise, personally as a an school gamer, I yield towards the classic ATB/Menu systems/Turn-based system more so than the Action-RPG approach that Square have been leaning towards more in recent years. Recalling several settings options is some FF titles, during their main menu screen they frequently provide the settings option from "Active" to "Wait". Active option being that, the gameplay responses between combat becomes more time-imposed and decision-making becomes more critical. Wait option provides more air-time and room for entry RPG-oriented for decision-making and more conditional, thus explains why FFX is Conditional Turn-based, than its predecessors.
What multiple misconception is that most players assume ATB and Turn-based system as synonymous. However, they are 2 very different application and the outcome of the experience between the 2 is actually quite vital to your entire gaming experience as a whole and it dictates your preference to the RPG genre in its entirety.
From my experience, I find ATB to be the essential element enhancing the immersion experience of the entire game because of the complementary nature it has on the combat mechanic with a reactive time-imposed. Late responses means enemies will respond much quicker thus your party will be in closer danger of perishing. However, the wait option does not maximize and bring that challenge if that is what you prefer. Regardless, the fact remains that your choice of moves are more vital than this nuanced function but ultimately, I find that it sustains realism yet retains fantasy at the same time.
To elaborate, otherwise on the other extreme of action-RPG, it trains your decision-making to be swift and quick,but it cultivates the danger of excessive autonomy. Therefore, if the holistic game mechanic is not enjoyable in general, there is very limited enjoyment and strategic excitement that can be drawn from the immersion of critical decision-making response. Hence, sub-consciously there is some impact on the overall enjoyment of the game, that is why titles like FFIV, FFVII, FFX, FFXII, FFXIII are ground-breaking, regardless of how the player perceives their preferences, because it is an essential element enhancing the dynamic of the combat mechanic.
For instance FFIV-VI, it doesn't have a ATB gauge, but ATB is already Active if you set it so. that is why some RPG players find FF titles uniquely engaging to be the introduction to the JRPG world. I personally find FFVII-IX era to be the best candidate for this factor. Thus, why FFVII is loved by many because you noticed that the ATB meter works complementary with the combat mechanic and the other designs such as graphics and animations. If you can visualize what I mean, you will noticed what I mean when both functions actually 'sustains realism and preserves the fantasy element' within the game because the combat doesn't necessarily occur on " My-Turn-I-Punch-You, Your-Turn-You-Punch-Me" but it doesn't detach its "Turn-basedness" completely because, RPG games fantasy primarily also hangs on Strategic Decision-Making that ensures your victory.
Look at FFX, it is also another leap of change in terms of the complement nature of the combinations between ATB function and the game mechanic induced again; It switches off the ATB to Wait function A.k.a Conditional turn-based, yet optimizing the other combat mechanics I.e. moveset, spells, blitz, summons etc so technically you can assume ATB is removed, but it is still regarded as a Turn-based RPG. FFXII is also a big leap on how differently the ATB is being utilize. At this point of course you can begin to see the drastic change Square enix is moving after that entering a different market, and shortly it shapes to become more Action-RPG-oriented as we know from FFXIII to FFXV today.
So, is it the Best combat system within the genre for any RPG that is universally accepted by all gamers? Certainly not, because to each their own.
Is it impactful and innovative to the gameplay experience? Certainly you bet it is!!
TreasureHunter
Chocobo Breeder
It was definitely innovative for the time, but I do think that people cling to it a bit too much. I remember people being uptight when the series started shifting away from it but it was definitely time.
I agree with this post. I like the ATB system but games do change and evolve with time and so do battle systems.
That type of talk is so refreshing to hear, because nearly everyone I meet outside this forum believes it's sacrilege to have an FF that isn't either pure turn based or using ATB.