Kuja > Sephiroth

[Nikkolas]

Kuja > Sephiroth

1. Origins

Sephiroth first turned evil when he read some books and flipped. He then made wild, incorrect assumptions that were not true in the slightest and concluded he was a test-tube baby. Then he burned down a village...the evilness knows no limits in the gay one.

Kuja was born solely to be an “Angel of Death” to a world that his creator needed to cause massive devastation on. A reject and imperfect, he loathed all around him and grew a narcissistic persona that he had until we first see him in the game. He is standing quite at his ease and we learn that he was the one who gave Queen Brahne the technology to produce her race of death drones in the Black Mages.

2. What they did?

Sephiroth:
-Killed some defenseless townspeople.
-Summoned Meteor

That’s about it. It was Jenova who killed everyone in the Shinra HQ and Sephiroth is trapped deep inside Northern Crater so even Tseng’s injury or the people who were killed along the way (including Aeris) were not actually killed by him.

Kuja:
-Spawned an entire race merely for the purpose of mass murder and mayhem and their own inevitable deaths.
-Gave Queen Brahne the secret to using eidelons and engineered the destruction of an entire city in Burmecia and Cleyra along with the fall of Lindblum.
-Turned on Brahne and coaxed her into doing what he wanted and summoning Bahamut so he could use Bahamut to his own advantage and thus annihilated her and her entire fleet while smiling.
-Destroyed a large amount of Lindblum with his Mistadons and Bahamut only to get Alexander summoned, again according to his plans
-Was foiled by his creator but smoothly and ingeniously crafted a new plan to give himself the power he longed for through the souls his creator had trapped.
-Has our party stupidly give him all he needs by attacking him and inducing his ultra-trance and then finds out he will die and blows up Terra.
-Causes the roots of the Iifa Tree to rip all the way from deep in the ground and to the surface to cause massive havoc and panic as well as death.
-Created Memoria and the Chaos Guardians through his immense power.

I hope that settles it. To sum up why Kuja owns Sephiroth in every single way

“Sephiroth got mad and burned down a town. Kuja got mad and blew up a planet.”

 

[X-Chronic]

Sephiroth could also have destoyed the planet with Meteor.

 

[Nikkolas]

Yep. WITH Meteor. He made a big rock come and do it for him. Kuja had his own power, his own technique he used to destroy Terra. He didn't use a magic to bring something to do it for him.

 

[Tethar]

Kuja > Sephiroth

1. Origins

Sephiroth first turned evil when he read some books and flipped. He then made wild, incorrect assumptions that were not true in the slightest and concluded he was a test-tube baby. Then he burned down a village...the evilness knows no limits in the gay one.

Kuja was born solely to be an “Angel of Death” to a world that his creator needed to cause massive devastation on. A reject and imperfect, he loathed all around him and grew a narcissistic persona that he had until we first see him in the game. He is standing quite at his ease and we learn that he was the one who gave Queen Brahne the technology to produce her race of death drones in the Black Mages.

2. What they did?

Sephiroth:
-Killed some defenseless townspeople.
-Summoned Meteor

That’s about it. It was Jenova who killed everyone in the Shinra HQ and Sephiroth is trapped deep inside Northern Crater so even Tseng’s injury or the people who were killed along the way (including Aeris) were not actually killed by him.

Kuja:
-Spawned an entire race merely for the purpose of mass murder and mayhem and their own inevitable deaths.
-Gave Queen Brahne the secret to using eidelons and engineered the destruction of an entire city in Burmecia and Cleyra along with the fall of Lindblum.
-Turned on Brahne and coaxed her into doing what he wanted and summoning Bahamut so he could use Bahamut to his own advantage and thus annihilated her and her entire fleet while smiling.
-Destroyed a large amount of Lindblum with his Mistadons and Bahamut only to get Alexander summoned, again according to his plans
-Was foiled by his creator but smoothly and ingeniously crafted a new plan to give himself the power he longed for through the souls his creator had trapped.
-Has our party stupidly give him all he needs by attacking him and inducing his ultra-trance and then finds out he will die and blows up Terra.
-Causes the roots of the Iifa Tree to rip all the way from deep in the ground and to the surface to cause massive havoc and panic as well as death.
-Created Memoria and the Chaos Guardians through his immense power.

I hope that settles it. To sum up why Kuja owns Sephiroth in every single way

“Sephiroth got mad and burned down a town. Kuja got mad and blew up a planet.”

Kuja was not born to be an Angel of death. He was a freak among his kind and was put to another use. It was Zidane who was actually born to be an Angel of death. The freak Kuja was just made use of untill it was time for him to die.

Sephiroth smiled more then Kuja ever did. Kuja could on occasion look annoyed or angry Sephiroth had a cynical smile on his face the entire time.

Kuja died game over for him. Sephiroth has surpased death in is Immortal. As long as Jenova cells exist Sephiroth can return. Despite Aerith's healing rain, many still have geostigma and the lifestream is still infected.

Kuja never made the Lifa Tree do anything. That was the tree's natural function and when it happend Kuja wanted it to stop beause he started to appreciate life.

Kuja got beaten and became a pathetic wanabee hero crying over the fact he never got to live the way he wanted.
Sephiroth got killed then imediatly engeneered the means of his resurection and as he said, "I will...never be a memory". Sephiroth still tries to achieve his goals and does not care about any whiny heros.

Kuja created the chaos guardians, memoria was created from memories rather then Kujas power. Sephiroth created mental projections in the form of Bizzaro and Safer Sephiroth with nothing more then his mind.

Thre jenova that escaped ShinRa HQ was under Sephiroth's control it was him doing all the killing and ohrcastrating everything that happend. From the president's death to killing Aerith. Jenova is a creature of instinct and does not think about such things as revenge and removing obstacles.

Sephiroth manipulated Cloud into giving him everything he needed. I.E. the black materia. and almost had him kill Aerith. Kuja never came close to this. Did Zidane ever try to gut Garnet on Kuja's orders. No he did not.

Kuja turned evil because...Well infact he was always evil. Sephiroth turned evil because he found out that he was created and everything he belived was a lie.

Kuja destroyed a planet full of countless oh nothing as no one was alive on Terra. Every living thing managed to escape.
Sephiroth killed everyone in Nibleheim. Most people in the ShinRa HQ countless other people in his walk through the world. (controling Jenova's body and making it appear as his own.)


Sephiroth summoned Meteor Kuja smashed the crystal. They both succeded but The lifestream stoped Meteor and the heros stopped Necron. Both of them actually succeded it was merly those things they put their faith in that failed.

 

[Nikkolas]

Kuja was not born to be an Angel of death. He was a freak among his kind and was put to another use. It was Zidane who was actually born to be an Angel of death. The freak Kuja was just made use of until it was time for him to die.

The write word is defect. They have them in animals, plants and humans. I don’t think they’d particularly like you calling them freaks. He was a placeholder for Zidane but he was Garland’s Angel of Death. A temporary one but the one he used all the same. And as I already said, Kuja was his own individual and had his own agenda. Doesn’t matter what one is born. But what they grow to be. (Dumbledore)

Sephiroth smiled more then Kuja ever did. Kuja could on occasion look annoyed or angry Sephiroth had a cynical smile on his face the entire time.

Please tell me when we see Sephiroth smiling? I mean, the graphics weren’t the best in the game ya know. I remember seeing Kuja smile as he got a tiny cut from a full-on blast of one of the most powerful entities in all the gameworld and then smiling as Bahamut came under his control. Don’t think Sephiroth smiled much in the game. And counting the movie is rather cheap because well duh he’ll get more chances to grin all he wants. I’m sure Kuja would smile too if FFIX got a movie.

Kuja died game over for him. Sephiroth has supposed death in is Immortal. As long as Jenova cells exist Sephiroth can return. Despite Aerith's healing rain, many still have geostigma and the lifestream is still infected.

Well, bravo. He’s incorporeal and incapable of doing much of anything currently. Call me when he comes back again and causes half the damage Kuja inflicted in his lifespan.

Kuja never made the Lifa Tree do anything. That was the tree's natural function and when it happened Kuja wanted it to stop because he started to appreciate life.

In the immortal words of Dana Carvey “WRONG!”

Vivi: It's Mist... It's what black mages are made out of, and what used
to cover the Mist Continent...

Dagger: The Mist...has covered all of Gaia...

Zidane: Why...? How? Kuja... What are you planing now!?



Kuja wanted to stop the Terra assimilation masterplan before he lost his soul. He stopped the roots so Zidane and company could escape but prior to that he did as I said.

Kuja got beaten and became a pathetic wanabee hero crying over the fact he never got to live the way he wanted.
Sephiroth got killed then imediatly engeneered the means of his resurection and as he said, "I will...never be a memory". Sephiroth still tries to achieve his goals and does not care about any whiny heros.

Tremendous work, Seph. He got beaten again. Congratulations on proving his point. Kuja understood he couldn’t win and was smart enough to end it. If Sephiroth wants to fight and fight again for no reason other than he’s so scared of death, scared of dying and fading away then I guess some can find that inspirations to keep fighting merely because you’re terrified of a life after life.

Kuja created the chaos guardians, memoria was created from memories rather then Kujas power. Sephiroth created mental projections in the form of Bizzaro and Safer Sephiroth with nothing more then his mind.

So, it just materialized out of nowhere? I’m pretty sure Kuja created it to get to the Crystal just like the others used it to get there as well.

Your second part is just stupid. Bizarro and Safer Sephiroth were real. The final battle was purely in the mind. Sorry you’re just WAY off.

Thre jenova that escaped ShinRa HQ was under Sephiroth's control it was him doing all the killing and ohrcastrating everything that happened. From the president's death to killing Aerith. Jenova is a creature of instinct and does not think about such things as revenge and removing obstacles.

You can find the entire reason why this makes no sense in my Jenova Thesis topic. Sephiroth does not have the ability to transcend time and space to make Jenova’s body do anything. He is trapped in materia in Northern Crater and hasn’t moved for years. How do you suppose he made Jenova move?

Sephiroth manipulated Cloud into giving him everything he needed. I.E. the black materia. and almost had him kill Aerith. Kuja never came close to this. Did Zidane ever try to gut Garnet on Kuja's orders. No he did not.

Well, seeing as Cloud is only a shell of his real self and can be controlled by the Jenova cells, it is no great fete. Kuja used merely his own cunning and shrewdness to start Brahne’s insane continental war. That’s a bit harder and more impressive, ya know.

Kuja turned evil because...Well infact he was always evil. Sephiroth turned evil because he found out that he was created and everything he belived was a lie.

Excuse me? Zidane was created to be evil. Mikoto was created to be evil. Are they? Nope. Kuja CHOSE his path of wickedness. He made the willing decision to live a life of sadism and terror. Sephiroth read a book made wild and completely wrong assumptions and then went psycho. That makes no sense and is one of the worst points ever in a videogame that documents a hero’s fall to villainy.

Kuja destroyed a planet full of countless oh nothing as no one was alive on Terra. Every living thing managed to escape.

There were the souls of all the Terrans. They wee in Pandemonium which was the first place he struck. So, all the original peoples of Terra were laid waste to.

Sephiroth killed everyone in Nibleheim. Most people in the ShinRa HQ countless other people in his walk through the world. (controlling Jenova's body and making it appear as his own.)

Wrong again. Quite a number of people in Nibelheim survived and became the subjects for the Sephiroth Clone project. Additionally it was mostly these clones that killed people throughout the world when you hear about death. You hear about a man in a black cape i.e. the clones. Not Sephiroth. Plus again, Sephiroth has no power over Jenova. He has not the motivation, nor the power to do such a thing.

Sephiroth summoned Meteor Kuja smashed the crystal. They both succeded but The lifestream stoped Meteor and the heros stopped Necron. Both of them actually succeded it was merly those things they put their faith in that failed.

Well, considering the Crystal is life and Kuja attacked the party and not the Crystal when you defeated him, it didn’t shatter. No one really knows about that, though. It’s up for fan speculation.

 

[Gaaramaster]

Kuja was not born to be an Angel of death. He was a freak among his kind and was put to another use. It was Zidane who was actually born to be an Angel of death. The freak Kuja was just made use of untill it was time for him to die.

Sephiroth smiled more then Kuja ever did. Kuja could on occasion look annoyed or angry Sephiroth had a cynical smile on his face the entire time.

Kuja died game over for him. Sephiroth has surpased death in is Immortal. As long as Jenova cells exist Sephiroth can return. Despite Aerith's healing rain, many still have geostigma and the lifestream is still infected.

Kuja never made the Lifa Tree do anything. That was the tree's natural function and when it happend Kuja wanted it to stop beause he started to appreciate life.

Kuja got beaten and became a pathetic wanabee hero crying over the fact he never got to live the way he wanted.
Sephiroth got killed then imediatly engeneered the means of his resurection and as he said, "I will...never be a memory". Sephiroth still tries to achieve his goals and does not care about any whiny heros.

Kuja created the chaos guardians, memoria was created from memories rather then Kujas power. Sephiroth created mental projections in the form of Bizzaro and Safer Sephiroth with nothing more then his mind.

Thre jenova that escaped ShinRa HQ was under Sephiroth's control it was him doing all the killing and ohrcastrating everything that happend. From the president's death to killing Aerith. Jenova is a creature of instinct and does not think about such things as revenge and removing obstacles.

Sephiroth manipulated Cloud into giving him everything he needed. I.E. the black materia. and almost had him kill Aerith. Kuja never came close to this. Did Zidane ever try to gut Garnet on Kuja's orders. No he did not.

Kuja turned evil because...Well infact he was always evil. Sephiroth turned evil because he found out that he was created and everything he belived was a lie.

Kuja destroyed a planet full of countless oh nothing as no one was alive on Terra. Every living thing managed to escape.
Sephiroth killed everyone in Nibleheim. Most people in the ShinRa HQ countless other people in his walk through the world. (controling Jenova's body and making it appear as his own.)


Sephiroth summoned Meteor Kuja smashed the crystal. They both succeded but The lifestream stoped Meteor and the heros stopped Necron. Both of them actually succeded it was merly those things they put their faith in that failed.

yep. Another difference tho is that Sephiroth was cooler.And stronger.

 

[Nikkolas]

Sephiroth was a half-assed villain dressed in a woman's style of renchcoat. It is, honest. Look at them somewhere. Kuja was the ultimate in surprise - he looks like a fruitcake but he will kill you and your family along with your pet dog while laughing. Plus Sephiroth was not stronger as I already stated. He would never have won in any fight against Kuja.

 

[Tethar]

http://www.finalfantasyforums.net/1451-post31.html

This link goes to Project SS. It is the Sephiroth fan club here on FFF. More importantly it is a link to a post I made which contains all the relevant infomation on Sephiroth from both, The Ultima Omega Guide and The Reunion Files.

Two documents both 100% fact about Final Fantasy VII I went through them and copied out the parts relating to Sephiroth.

It is interesting how much of your Jenova thesis is wrong, but I will get to that later.

I will start with quotes from Omega.

***Sephiroth's will and Jenova's will*** (Page 53)
The Sephiroth clones seen in various locations continue gathering for the
Reunion. Seemingly, the will of Jenova as a human is the result of it
consuming Sephiroth's spirit; in actuality, Sephiroth is controlling Jenova.

(Accompanying screenshot caption)
Sephiroth's voice is heard through his "mother," Jenova, as applied through
its cells in the Sephiroth Clones.

------------------------
[Analysis: This section confirms that Sephiroth was in control of Jenova.]

So Sephiroth was controling Jenova. Sephiroth's will is so strong he can influence things from any distance.

***The open cell door*** (Page 94)
Indicating the brutality of Jenova, a bloodstain leads from the open cell door
-- which was opened previously without [anyone] noticing -- to the top floor.
It would seem that after awakening, Jenova intentionally opened specifically
Cloud's door, leading [him] to the top floor. As he's a person who carries
Jenova cells [inside him], was it trying to help Cloud......?

------------------------
[Analysis: This section confirms that Sephiroth -- using Jenova's main body
(see below passage entitled "Jenova inside the ship") -- opened Cloud's cell
door during the massacre in the Shin-Ra headquarters.]

Again Sephiroth controlling Jenova's body opend the cell so Cloud could attend the Reunion. (the event not the document)

***Jenova inside the ship*** (Page 112)
Cloud confronts "Sephiroth," the murderer of the ship's crew in the bottom of
the ship. In truth, Jenova began moving away from the Shin-Ra building on its
own, and took on the form of Sephiroth.

(Accompanying screenshot caption)
This [that Jenova was being carried by Sephiroth] was a misunderstanding. The
arm was not carried, but rather was detached here.

------------------------
[Analysis: This section -- together with the accompanying screenshot where
Tifa can be seen asking if this means that Jenova was being carried -- reveals
that the main body of Jenova was not carried out of the Shin-Ra headquarters
by a Sephiroth Clone, as has often been thought in the past. In truth,
Sephiroth assumed control of the main body and had it force its way out of its
confinement, assume his form, slaughter the Shin-Ra personnel -- as well as
President Shinra himself -- open Cloud's cell door and then escape. It is this
main body of Jenova that AVALANCHE pursues from Midgar.

This section further reveals that the tentacle of Jenova that transformed into
Jenova-BIRTH on the Shin-Ra cargo ship was detached from the main body during
the confrontation with AVALANCHE in the bottom of the ship.]

Everytime you see Jenova in the game before the last events at the crater were Sephiroth's real body is revealed. You are seeing Jenova's body uner the control of Sephiroth.

***As for those which have been chased so far*** (Page 163)
Before the battle with Jenova-DEATH, the words of one of the Sephiroth Clones
in line for the Reunion offers an indication of the truth: those who carried
Jenova's cells were given the mission of bringing the Black Materia to their
master, Sephiroth. The fact of the matter is that the "Sephiroth" Cloud saw in
various places was not Sephiroth himself, but rather the body of Jenova from
the Shin-Ra building mimicing his form.

------------------------
[Analysis: This is just more of the previous confirmations: that the forms of
Sephiroth AVALANCHE has been seeing are not his real body (which has been in
the Northern Crater all this time), but Jenova's main body -- and seperated
pieces of it -- in his form. Like the piece that became Jenova-LIFE, that
which becomes Jenova-DEATH is just another unidentified piece of the main body
of Jenova, seperated from the main body and given Sephiroth's form while under
his control.]

***Jenova-SYNTHESIS*** (Page 204)
The forms of Jenova that have been fought up to this point (BIRTH, LIFE,
DEATH) were parts of the body which escaped from the Shin-Ra building. In
regard to Jenova-SYNTHESIS, this form that was arranged to be fought inside
the Planet, it is the head of Jenova that Sephiroth had in hand five years ago
and the other parts Shin-Ra had, their Reunion complete. As such, its
appearance differs from the previous forms: the image of this form's upper
body has become strong, it being the closest to perfection.

------------------------
[Analysis: This section tells us that Jenova-SYNTHESIS is the combination of
Jenova's main body and its head. It's also implied -- since Sephiroth killed
all the Sephiroth Clones but Cloud and sent them down into the Northern Crater
-- that the cells Hojo injected into the Sephiroth Clones are part of this
merged form of Jenova.]

***Cloud's final battle*** (Page 204)
After fighting Bizarro Sephiroth and Safer Sephiroth, Cloud has a final 1-on-1
battle with Sephiroth in the spiritual realm. Although the ego of this
Sephiroth Clone was stricken with an inferiority complex in the past, Cloud
fights on and achieves victory in the end.

Oh just so you know. The final battle is in Cloud's mind. Safer and Bizzaro are mental projections. This means Sephiroth created them with his mind. I did not say that all three were mental battles. I understand how you could find this confusing, even though it is quite clear to me.

*Successful work, failure work*
As for the mentally and physically strong, carrying Jenova's cells inside
their bodies will not cause them to receive Jenova's influence, and they will
not become a puppet of Jenova like the Sephiroth Clones, but will instead
become a SOLDIER possessing strength far beyond that of a normal human being.

In Zack's case, he had already successfully received the SOLDIER procedure
previously, and undergoing experimentation as a Sephiroth Clone did not make
him into a puppet of Jenova; he retained his normal human behavior to the
end. However, unlike Zack, the residents of Nibelheim were perfect in the role
of Sephiroth Clones for Hojo's experiment. As for Cloud, like the other
residents of Nibelheim -- [who all became perfect] Sephiroth Clones -- being
unable to withstand the SOLDIER treatments, he could not retain himself and
his mind completely collapsed. When reunited with Tifa in Midgar, though, the
coherence of being normal would return to him and he would gain a personality
that essentially let him be his own person, even if confusion would come of
it.

Also noteworthy is Sephiroth's unique case. Until the secret of his birth was
known, he had legendary strength of which he was proud, but 5 years ago, he
began walking a different road from that of humans. However, he was unwilling
to be placed under Jenova's control and became the leader himself, with its
actions falling under his control in the end. This fact resulted in Sephiroth
gaining a new sense of strength.

(Accompanying screenshot caption)
Even without awareness of the Reunion as a Sephiroth Clone, Cloud was still
drawn to it like the other Clones.

------------------------
[Analysis: As mentioned in the previous analysis section, Cloud was a
successful Sephiroth Clone, having the exact results Hojo had hoped for; he
wasn't the failure at all, and instead, Zack -- who freed Cloud before he
could get a number -- was. Zack could handle the SOLDIER/Sephiroth Clone
treatments just fine, and this made him a failure for the purposes of Hojo's
experiment.

This section also reiterates the notable fact that Sephiroth's will and
ambitions were too powerful for him to be controlled by Jenova, and that he
became its ruler instead.]

Two points her. First on one pint you are actually right. Some citizens of Nibleheim did survive to be used as Clones. Second more proof that Sephiroth was controlling Jenova not the other way around as you seem to think.



I could put in more but I think I have said everything relevant.
I have seen many people argue that Sephiroth is better then Kuja. Also many people argue that Kuja is better then Sephiroth.

I am beyond caring any longer. They never met and we will never know. I only wish that Sephiroth is not misunderstood and false infomation is not spread.

All of the above is from Ultima Omega and is therefore completly true. Argue against it if you wish, you will look like a fool if you do.

I will not continue to debate who is better I find such a thing to be the antics of fanboys and fangirls. I merly ask you use only true infomation about Sephiroth in your disucssions.

 

[Davey Gaga]

Kuja > Sephiroth

1. Origins

Sephiroth first turned evil when he read some books and flipped. He then made wild, incorrect assumptions that were not true in the slightest and concluded he was a test-tube baby. Then he burned down a village...the evilness knows no limits in the gay one.

Kuja was born solely to be an “Angel of Death” to a world that his creator needed to cause massive devastation on. A reject and imperfect, he loathed all around him and grew a narcissistic persona that he had until we first see him in the game. He is standing quite at his ease and we learn that he was the one who gave Queen Brahne the technology to produce her race of death drones in the Black Mages.

2. What they did?

Sephiroth:
-Killed some defenseless townspeople.
-Summoned Meteor

That’s about it. It was Jenova who killed everyone in the Shinra HQ and Sephiroth is trapped deep inside Northern Crater so even Tseng’s injury or the people who were killed along the way (including Aeris) were not actually killed by him.

Kuja:
-Spawned an entire race merely for the purpose of mass murder and mayhem and their own inevitable deaths.
-Gave Queen Brahne the secret to using eidelons and engineered the destruction of an entire city in Burmecia and Cleyra along with the fall of Lindblum.
-Turned on Brahne and coaxed her into doing what he wanted and summoning Bahamut so he could use Bahamut to his own advantage and thus annihilated her and her entire fleet while smiling.
-Destroyed a large amount of Lindblum with his Mistadons and Bahamut only to get Alexander summoned, again according to his plans
-Was foiled by his creator but smoothly and ingeniously crafted a new plan to give himself the power he longed for through the souls his creator had trapped.
-Has our party stupidly give him all he needs by attacking him and inducing his ultra-trance and then finds out he will die and blows up Terra.
-Causes the roots of the Iifa Tree to rip all the way from deep in the ground and to the surface to cause massive havoc and panic as well as death.
-Created Memoria and the Chaos Guardians through his immense power.

I hope that settles it. To sum up why Kuja owns Sephiroth in every single way

“Sephiroth got mad and burned down a town. Kuja got mad and blew up a planet.”

If only I saw this topic earlier, I could have teamed up with Tethar. Nevertheless, I will continue roughly where he left off.

My first point is that you are completely biased in the sense that you believe one thing about Kuja and will try desperately to prove that point to others.

Quote:
Sephiroth smiled more then Kuja ever did. Kuja could on occasion look annoyed or angry Sephiroth had a cynical smile on his face the entire time.

Please tell me when we see Sephiroth smiling? I mean, the graphics weren’t the best in the game ya know. I remember seeing Kuja smile as he got a tiny cut from a full-on blast of one of the most powerful entities in all the gameworld and then smiling as Bahamut came under his control. Don’t think Sephiroth smiled much in the game. And counting the movie is rather cheap because well duh he’ll get more chances to grin all he wants. I’m sure Kuja would smile too if FFIX got a movie.

Sephiroth smiled all the time. When he won a battle, when he burned Nibelheim to the ground, when he released Jenova, when Cloud gave him the Black Materia, when Cloud travelled to meet him after defeating Seraph Sephiroth, when Sephiroth returns in AC, multiple times during the fight in AC, he even smiles when he says "I will never be a memory". Point proven. As I recall, Kuja did not smile, he merely wiped his forehead and glanced up to Bahamut. As a final note here, FFIX will never get it's own movie for the simple reason that it was a pathetic game, but that's a different disucssion.

Quote:
Kuja died game over for him. Sephiroth has supposed death in is Immortal. As long as Jenova cells exist Sephiroth can return. Despite Aerith's healing rain, many still have geostigma and the lifestream is still infected.

Well, bravo. He’s incorporeal and incapable of doing much of anything currently. Call me when he comes back again and causes half the damage Kuja inflicted in his lifespan.

Message for Nikkolas


Quote:
Kuja never made the Lifa Tree do anything. That was the tree's natural function and when it happened Kuja wanted it to stop because he started to appreciate life.

In the immortal words of Dana Carvey “WRONG!”

Vivi: It's Mist... It's what black mages are made out of, and what used
to cover the Mist Continent...

Dagger: The Mist...has covered all of Gaia...

Zidane: Why...? How? Kuja... What are you planing now!?



Kuja wanted to stop the Terra assimilation masterplan before he lost his soul. He stopped the roots so Zidane and company could escape but prior to that he did as I said.

Kuja did convince the tree to pump mist, I believe. However, this isn't exactly a great point to use. "Yippee! I got an ugly tree to help me conquer Gaia!"

Quote:
Kuja got beaten and became a pathetic wanabee hero crying over the fact he never got to live the way he wanted.
Sephiroth got killed then imediatly engeneered the means of his resurection and as he said, "I will...never be a memory". Sephiroth still tries to achieve his goals and does not care about any whiny heros.

Tremendous work, Seph. He got beaten again. Congratulations on proving his point. Kuja understood he couldn’t win and was smart enough to end it. If Sephiroth wants to fight and fight again for no reason other than he’s so scared of death, scared of dying and fading away then I guess some can find that inspirations to keep fighting merely because you’re terrified of a life after life.

Trumendous work, Kuja. Run away and give up, try to hide from all of the problems you've caused. Try and be a good like thong-man now, wont'ya? As a point, it is clear Sephiroth would have won the match against Cloud in AC, had it not been for his arrogance in trying to take away what Cloud cherishes most. HA! "Tell me what you cherish most, give me the pleasure of taking it away..." He gains pleasure from making Cloud miserable. Kuja merely punished those who got in his way.

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Kuja created the chaos guardians, memoria was created from memories rather then Kujas power. Sephiroth created mental projections in the form of Bizzaro and Safer Sephiroth with nothing more then his mind.

So, it just materialized out of nowhere? I’m pretty sure Kuja created it to get to the Crystal just like the others used it to get there as well.

Your second part is just stupid. Bizarro and Safer Sephiroth were real. The final battle was purely in the mind. Sorry you’re just WAY off.

He's not off, he's smack-bang in the middle. Had you bothered to pay much attention to the game and not made your own theories regarding aspects *coughJENOVAcough*, then maybe you could see that Tethar is right? He didn't randomly say that to win this argument, the evidence speaks for itself. However, you seem to be deaf and cannot hear the evidence I'm not deliberately trying to insult you, but I'm making my point.

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Thre jenova that escaped ShinRa HQ was under Sephiroth's control it was him doing all the killing and ohrcastrating everything that happened. From the president's death to killing Aerith. Jenova is a creature of instinct and does not think about such things as revenge and removing obstacles.

You can find the entire reason why this makes no sense in my Jenova Thesis topic. Sephiroth does not have the ability to transcend time and space to make Jenova’s body do anything. He is trapped in materia in Northern Crater and hasn’t moved for years. How do you suppose he made Jenova move?

That thesis is fan-made, there is no confirmed evidence regarding this, which leaves it out of the question. As Tethar has already shown in his previous post, you are wrong.

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Sephiroth manipulated Cloud into giving him everything he needed. I.E. the black materia. and almost had him kill Aerith. Kuja never came close to this. Did Zidane ever try to gut Garnet on Kuja's orders. No he did not.

Well, seeing as Cloud is only a shell of his real self and can be controlled by the Jenova cells, it is no great fete. Kuja used merely his own cunning and shrewdness to start Brahne’s insane continental war. That’s a bit harder and more impressive, ya know.

Sephiroth used the bond between himself, Jenova and Cloud to take over the mind of Cloud. Kuja could not manipulate anyone in this way - he relyed on blackmail - the cowards answer.

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Kuja turned evil because...Well infact he was always evil. Sephiroth turned evil because he found out that he was created and everything he belived was a lie.

Excuse me? Zidane was created to be evil. Mikoto was created to be evil. Are they? Nope. Kuja CHOSE his path of wickedness. He made the willing decision to live a life of sadism and terror. Sephiroth read a book made wild and completely wrong assumptions and then went psycho. That makes no sense and is one of the worst points ever in a videogame that documents a hero’s fall to villainy.
You seem to be leaving quite a few details from the story of Sephiroth. He didn't just read a book then go psycho. He studied infinite knowledge regarding the Jenova project, the cetra and the Promised Land. He discovered why he was different and realised what his true purpose in life was. Kuja followed orders from his boss, then schemed against him, only to have this fail later.

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Kuja destroyed a planet full of countless oh nothing as no one was alive on Terra. Every living thing managed to escape.

There were the souls of all the Terrans. They wee in Pandemonium which was the first place he struck. So, all the original peoples of Terra were laid waste to.

Souls, useless souls. Sephiroth virtually extracted souls, sending them to the lifestream, then attempted to join with all of those souls.

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Sephiroth killed everyone in Nibleheim. Most people in the ShinRa HQ countless other people in his walk through the world. (controlling Jenova's body and making it appear as his own.)

Wrong again. Quite a number of people in Nibelheim survived and became the subjects for the Sephiroth Clone project. Additionally it was mostly these clones that killed people throughout the world when you hear about death. You hear about a man in a black cape i.e. the clones. Not Sephiroth. Plus again, Sephiroth has no power over Jenova. He has not the motivation, nor the power to do such a thing.

He's not been wrong yet and still isn't wrong now. He does, in fact, have the power requirred to do with Jenova what he pleases. Read Tethars above post.

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Sephiroth summoned Meteor Kuja smashed the crystal. They both succeded but The lifestream stoped Meteor and the heros stopped Necron. Both of them actually succeded it was merly those things they put their faith in that failed.

Well, considering the Crystal is life and Kuja attacked the party and not the Crystal when you defeated him, it didn’t shatter. No one really knows about that, though. It’s up for fan speculation.
Let's not debate on specualtion, shall we?

 

[Azerty]

No matter how you look at it...they're both terrible villains. Still, I think Kuja is a cooler villain than Sephiroth. He's too overrated. Just like how FF7 is overrated.

 

[Captain Maddox]

In terms of over-all villainy, damage done to the world, terror caused and all of that - I consider them even. If not Kuja ahead by a small fraction. But if you want to talk about who's cooler, and a better fighter, it's Sephiroth in my opinion.

The real question is who would win in a one-on-one?

 

[Gaaramaster]

Sephiroth.

 

[Ichigo]

Kuja owns sephiroth sephy didn`t even destroy the planet while Kuja destroyed Terra and that place is bigger than the earth so ha ha

 

[I-chan]

ROFLMAO! Man, and I thought it was bad with the Seph vs. Aerith, etc. arguments...

Ok, dude, you had a very interesting essay and theory on Jenova, Sephiroth, and the whole shebang--but apparently authorities have brought you evidence that you need to either concede to, or counter effectively. Granted, I do say that the creators have left quite a few holes here and there, but when they come offering more up-to-date information, it's good to check on it to see if they patched or created more holes.

However, while instincts would tell me to be more cautious of Sephiroth, I have more common sense to beware of Kuja. Never know what that crazy mofo will try to do next.

 

[Ichigo]

He`ll probably Destroy you for no damn reason probably to smile! lol He`s the most bad ass Villan Of FF he pretty much conquered all of his plans

 

[Nikkolas]

The real question is who would win in a one-on-one?

Well, Kuja has some level of dimensional teleportation or he could not have gotten from the destroyed Terra to the crystal. He also has flight. He also has energy blasts that annihilate the entire area around his enemy. Sephiroth can't fly, can he? Can he teleport? In a melee fight, Seph would win because Kuja doesn't care about melee. He would just stay out of Seph's range and vaporize him with magic.

I'm not too interested in this anymore. Voyager is cooler.

 

[Warrior of Light]

Well, Kuja has some level of dimensional teleportation or he could not have gotten from the destroyed Terra to the crystal. He also has flight. He also has energy blasts that annihilate the entire area around his enemy. Sephiroth can't fly, can he? Can he teleport? In a melee fight, Seph would win because Kuja doesn't care about melee. He would just stay out of Seph's range and vaporize him with magic.

If you'd played FF7 you'd know that Sephiroth can indeed float and teleport. He does a fair bit of that in the game, in fact. You might also want to know that the guy does have a wing and flies quite swiftly

Spoiler

in AC

. If Kuja resorts to magic so will Sephiroth, with Supernova and a few other magical attacks that anyone who has played the game will know of.

 

[Nikkolas]

If you'd played FF7 you'd know that Sephiroth can indeed float and teleport. He does a fair bit of that in the game, in fact. You might also want to know that the guy does have a wing and flies quite swiftly in AC. If Kuja resorts to magic so will Sephiroth, with Supernova and a few other magical attacks that anyone who has played the game will know of.

Hm...interesting. Shame in-battle moves have no canonical value. Supernova is simply an in-battle move and as it fails to kill three normal humans, it can't kill Kuja. Kuja, however in a cutscene, destroyed Terra. So, we know his Ultima can vaporize a planet from FMVs. Let me know when Sephiroth displays that level of power in a cinematic when it means something.

 

[Warrior of Light]

Hm...interesting. Shame in-battle moves have no canonical value. Supernova is simply an in-battle move and as it fails to kill three normal humans, it can't kill Kuja. Kuja, however in a cutscene, destroyed Terra. So, we know his Ultima can vaporize a planet from FMVs. Let me know when Sephiroth displays that level of power in a cinematic when it means something.

Why are in-battle moves disqualified? On what bases you do make that? Supernova may not kill three normal humans (incidentally, Nanaki is not human and neither Cloud nor Vincent qualify for normal humans, either) but it totals a bunch of planets, which number in greater than one Terra. If we throw Kuja and Sephiroth in a battle it would only make sense to add their in-battle skills...as it is a battle, after all.

 

[Nikkolas]

Why are in-battle moves disqualified? On what bases you do make that? Supernova may not kill three normal humans (incidentally, Nanaki is not human and neither Cloud nor Vincent qualify for normal humans, either) but it totals a bunch of planets, which number in greater than one Terra. If we throw Kuja and Sephiroth in a battle it would only make sense to add their in-battle skills...as it is a battle, after all.

It's a flashy move. Do you notice how the planets re-materialize if he does it again? Do you notice how after Titan rips up the land to crush the enemy, the land in the battle is still full and unchanged? The fact is that in-battle moves are not comparable to real moves which actually change the storyline. For instance, Seph actually killed Aeris. He killed her. In a battle, that would just be a KO. Sephiroth needed the Black Materia to achieve his full power. In no way can he summon some unexplained energy blast in space to destroy planets when he can't even weaken one planet without aid from a materia. Also note that is that Supernova was real, it would have destroyed Meteor and poos goes Seph's plans. Finally, the Sun is not big enough to go Supernova.

It's an in-battle move. While things like Cure and healing spells can be taken into account, cutscene actions obviously are higher priority in proving power than simple spells and moves used in a battle.