Legalize weed in America?

[Rapture]

I've stated before, I'm up for legalisation of every drug, there's no black market that way, and people have the freedom to do what they will with their own bodies. We shouldn't criminalise something that someone does to their own body simply because it's bad for them. Also; what's bad with promoting sex? I think education should be given in sex, drugs and violence. Particularly something like violence, which people just use in a blasé way.

The next point is pretty much the same as the last; so it's potentially harmful, so what? It's their bodies.

You misconstrue my point on drink driving; my point is that whether weed is legal or not, people WILL drive high, just like people drink drive and they would if alcohol was legal. I never said it was a good thing to do.

Restrictions should evidently be placed on where people can and can't smoke weed, just like tobacco, but I don't believe it should be banned outright simply because people might get a whiff of the smell, just like tobacco can't be banned because of second-hand smoke.

Nothing is wrong with thinking of the children; but it seems a lot of people use the children as an excuse. Of course I don't believe in actively promoting children making bad choices in life; but once their parents have brought them up, it should be THEIR choices to make, not the states. Parents should educate children, the state shouldn't dictate.

Really, I think the best statement to be made is that if we have a bunch of intoxicated, high, or stoned people out there on the streets/roads...they are therefore going to be inebriated and therefore unable to make resonable decisions because their thought processes are impaired. If they are impaired and driving, people are going to die by car accidents or whatever, because just like in the case of alcohol, they do not know their limits... and other innocents are therefore going to fall victim to another's "decision" to harm their body.

I already see on the news every couple of days about for example a pastor and his wife and two children who are driving on the interstate when a person who is driving drunk crosses the line with a BAL of 0.550% and the poor pastor was the only one of his family to survive along with the drunk...this man lost his entire family because of another's poor decisions...and its a permant mistake that cannot be undone. I'm not trying to be mean but what if that were you and your family??? Could you imagine???

If you legalize drugs, more innocent people are going to die because of this. I'm sorry but I can't agree with you if you think that's okay. No matter what you say. When people can't make the correct decisions in their life and end up ending someone else's life because of it, its more than a decision, it's killing someone....we already have enough problems with alchol..do we really need to throw the whole array of drugs into the mix too? People on drugs can't make reasonable decisions in their life when the drug always comes first or they are intoxicated/high. It puts the rest of us who do not do drugs in danger and that shouldn't be acceptable.

So lets agree to disagree

 

[Soltharn]

I'm not American, but I don't believe that any drug currently classed as illegal should be legalised. I really cannot grasp the supposed logic behind it being someone's 'right' to pump their body full of behaviour altering drugs. The majority of people in society have a right to be safe - and the people out there getting high on drugs, the greater the risk of innocents being hurt.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Really, I think the best statement to be made is that if we have a bunch of intoxicated, high, or stoned people out there on the streets/roads...they are therefore going to be inebriated and therefore unable to make resonable decisions because their thought processes are impaired. If they are impaired and driving, people are going to die by car accidents or whatever, because just like in the case of alcohol, they do not know their limits... and other innocents are therefore going to fall victim to another's "decision" to harm their body.

I already see on the news every couple of days about for example a pastor and his wife and two children who are driving on the interstate when a person who is driving drunk crosses the line with a BAL of 0.550% and the poor pastor was the only one of his family to survive along with the drunk...this man lost his entire family because of another's poor decisions...and its a permant mistake that cannot be undone. I'm not trying to be mean but what if that were you and your family??? Could you imagine???

If you legalize drugs, more innocent people are going to die because of this. I'm sorry but I can't agree with you if you think that's okay. No matter what you say. When people can't make the correct decisions in their life and end up ending someone else's life because of it, its more than a decision, it's killing someone....we already have enough problems with alchol..do we really need to throw the whole array of drugs into the mix too? People on drugs can't make reasonable decisions in their life when the drug always comes first or they are intoxicated/high. It puts the rest of us who do not do drugs in danger and that shouldn't be acceptable.

So lets agree to disagree

I don't really even understand what you're getting at now; I completely and utterly agree that driving while intoxicated in any sense is a bad thing, but what I'm saying is that legalising drugs won't make a huge difference to the figures of people killed by such idiots. People while drive while intoxicated whether the substance they're using is legal or not. I do not condone this in any way, shape or form. The government and companies make a tacit admission of this fact by saying 'do not operate while under the effect of alcohol or drugs.'

 

[Roland_Deschain]

I can't agree that it should be legalized.

1- Its a gateway drug to other drugs. People who start at pot can start to get sick of its effects and wonder if there's something better out there and move on to meth or cocaine, or etc...







Well lets lets be honest about the whole gateway drug, a very small percentage of pot smokers are into those others drugs, most of the time speed junkies don't even smoke pot....but the thing is they did, and its not that they went SEARCHING for those stronger highs, its that they were offered and "sold" those other highs. This reinforces the point that if you took away a solid level of the drug dealers business than we would have a lot less drug dealers, and that if pot was legal you wouldnt get the chance to find those other highs. And believe me when I say this, its a different thing to ask random people if they know where to get some weed, and asking them where to get some speed.

My point is that almost all drug dealers sell more than just weed, but almost all pot smokers dont do harder drugs. So if we were to take away the gateway too those overly dependent people than things would start to turn in favor for the war agaisnt drugs,

STELLA.

I already see on the news every couple of days about for example a pastor and his wife and two children who are driving on the interstate when a person who is driving drunk crosses the line with a BAL of 0.550% and the poor pastor was the only one of his family to survive along with the drunk...this man lost his entire family because of another's poor decisions...and its a permant mistake that cannot be undone. I'm not trying to be mean but what if that were you and your family??? Could you imagine???




Ok lets be real though, car accidents happen wether people are intoxicated or not, and sometimes it happens when people are intoxicated and it had nothing to do with the fact that they were intoxicated. I am not backing up driving under the influence I am saying that it doesnt matter the result why you get in a car crash....if you were high than they are going ot blame that as the reason.


And seriously you are one of those people who I dont think have had any experience with the drug itself, It is not very harmful...period. And until you go and smoke it some you will not realize that. so you can argue that its a dangerous menace to society all you want but the realistic point of view is that it would make it a safer place in america by crippling the drug trafficing and crime industry, lower the chances of your children falling into the bad crowd, and if your """lucky""" maybe your kid will grow up to smoke pot for fun and not get drunk and shoot down his/her livers and actually get in a car crash. You can not compare driving drunk to driving stoned. I would trade all the drunk drivers in the world for completely baked drivers in a second.

Its Ironic to use driking as an example for this debate against Marijuana.
How many weed related accidents have any of you guys actually heard about?




(QUOTED) Stalthorn
I'm not American, but I don't believe that any drug currently classed as illegal should be legalised. I really cannot grasp the supposed logic behind it being someone's 'right' to pump their body full of behaviour altering drugs. The majority of people in society have a right to be safe - and the people out there getting high on drugs, the greater the risk of innocents being hurt.





Ok and to you not being from the country than perhaps you should take a look at some of the information about why and how marijuana became illegal in America in the first place, it was a seris of lies, bribes, faul play, and fear tactics to those who had no idea. And those who still are close minded to the topic are the people who have bought the fear tactics sold decades ago.

I already gave you many reasons why it would benifit the country being legal, crime would go down, the country would profit, and even more importantly and not yet stated by others is that we could control another great and useful resource and stopped chopping down so many forests for all the paper and other resources that "everyone" takes for granted everyday.

My point is it was made illegal in the first place in America by faul play and for no reason once so ever the health risks, Read the link I sent in the first post I made at the start of the thread. Once again the article is not to debate if its healthy...I might as well change the topic to should Coke Cola be illegal because it is even more Unhealthy than weed. The point is to compare the good with the bad and as far as I can see that among all the information accessible to me, it would be a smart move to legalize it.

 

[M1ghty Mous3]

Unless American has a drastic change of government as a whole. Marijuana will not be Legal. Only Medical Marijuana will be legal.

The reason marijuana is still illegal, is because of money. They make alot of money by making people pay for tickets of possession, then court costs, juvenile programs, rehab. The list goes on and on. If Marijuana was legal, the government would tax the fuck out of it. Why? Because they know they can. The ONLY way to fight this if it were legal. Would be to grow your own. Which they would remain illegal, as you cannot grow your own tobacco, yet you can make your own alcohol.

If MJ was legal, the government would probably put some chemicals into it that make it addictive. Marijuana by itself is NOT addictive in ANY FORM. Unless you yourself have an addictive personality. And then you would only be addicted to the high. You would not suffer from physical withdraw symptoms.

The only upside to Marijuana being legal, is that it would get rid of dealers. Dealers, as opposed to smokers, do not want it legal. They would lose money, and a shit load of it. Why go to a sketch dealer when you can get a pack of 20 joints at the store?

I smoke Marijuana. I Enjoy it very much. I do not think it should be tampered with. I would enjoy it being legal, with government control. But considering possible tampering with the plant, it will not go over well IF it ever does become legal.

If you smoke marijuana, and don't want to keep going to dealers, but want to continue smoking it. Grow it.

I don't grow. I want to one day. But cannot at the current time.

 

[Roland_Deschain]

you have some very good point mighty mouse and I have considered some of them.

Yes, if weed was legal they would tax the hell out of it, and yes the government makes a lot of money of tickets and penalties.

BUT isn't a consistent flow of money in a legal way more benificial than the government depending on people breaking the law?　Also it would be more money because it would be income everytime someone buys and not just when they get caught, also it would start a whole generation of smokers who stay away from it just because it is agains't the law.

Yes I agree they would have to set up some form of control or document that would not enable them to add additives or tamper with the plant itself.

 

[coffeecup]

The reason marijuana is still illegal, is because of money. They make alot of money by making people pay for tickets of possession, then court costs, juvenile programs, rehab. The list goes on and on. If Marijuana was legal, the government would tax the fuck out of it. Why? Because they know they can. The ONLY way to fight this if it were legal. Would be to grow your own. Which they would remain illegal, as you cannot grow your own tobacco, yet you can make your own alcohol.

If MJ was legal, the government would probably put some chemicals into it that make it addictive. Marijuana by itself is NOT addictive in ANY FORM. Unless you yourself have an addictive personality. And then you would only be addicted to the high. You would not suffer from physical withdraw symptoms.

:/ Most the kids getting caught for possession are from low-income backgrounds. The State ends up paying for detaining them, giving them an attorney, then putting them in a juvenile program. In other words, the taxpayer (you) pays for the majority of state costs. Also the State is getting drained rather than making money from this, it's better if they were able to reallocate resources for a better need (and we know all States are in a bit of a debt crunch at the moment).

Believe it or not, the government does care about its citizens' well-being (well to an extent). They're not going to make Marijuana addictive (?). And if Marijuana does become legal in the States, growing it in your backyard won't be illegal at all. It'll only be a federal crime if you grow it, then market it across state lines or something or other.

The main reason why there's difficulty in getting this legalized is the stigma that's been around on Marijuana. It's got a negative association that's carried from the long-ago past, so changing this isn't going to happen overnight. Plus, even if a State does make it legal, you've still got to wait for the other States AND the federal government to also follow suit for there to be any kind of corporate interest involved into making it a common shelf-item.

There's a big push towards legalization, but it's not going to happen right away since getting toked isn't really a substantial individual right like voting or something. Not enough people at the moment care enough for an instant and momentous shift. Just wait 'till the old dogs are out and the new generation starts filling the voting population. You've just got to be patient until it happens.

 

[Gabe]

I definitely have to say no as it would just make people more stupid in general, since weed impairs many mental things, but will not kill you, and EVERYONE would be smoking and getting high and even if there was an age restriction, teens would still get connections, as teens already do have connections to cigarettes and of course, weed. It would just be a major distraction to education and the work place, because already at my high school kids go out between classes and take a smoke break (that's roughly two cigarettes per hour) and sometimes they even smoke weed and get high before class, resulting in suspension or being permanently removed from the school and losing the ability to get education temporarily, or just dropping out. The people who want it legalized most likely just want it because they're already addicted, or they don't realize how stupid the world could be with it.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I definitely have to say no as it would just make people more stupid in general, since weed impairs many mental things, but will not kill you, and EVERYONE would be smoking and getting high and even if there was an age restriction, teens would still get connections, as teens already do have connections to cigarettes and of course, weed. It would just be a major distraction to education and the work place, because already at my high school kids go out between classes and take a smoke break (that's roughly two cigarettes per hour) and sometimes they even smoke weed and get high before class, resulting in suspension or being permanently removed from the school and losing the ability to get education temporarily, or just dropping out. The people who want it legalized most likely just want it because they're already addicted, or they don't realize how stupid the world could be with it.

Does EVERYONE smoke cigarettes? Does EVERYONE drink alcohol? Then why would EVERYONE smoke weed? I tried weed for the first time the other day. Thought it was completely overrated, did nothing for me and know I'll probly not do it again. Many people are in the same boat.
So your argument falls flat on its face, really, doesn't it? I'm not a weed smoker, and I still want it legalised. I believe in freedom.
You make a lot of unfair assumptions about people who want weed to be legal. Also there's no proof that weed is physically addictive in the way that tobacco and alcohol or even caffeine are.

 

[Roland_Deschain]

I definitely have to say no as it would just make people more stupid in general, since weed impairs many mental things, but will not kill you, and EVERYONE would be smoking and getting high and even if there was an age restriction, teens would still get connections, as teens already do have connections to cigarettes and of course, weed. It would just be a major distraction to education and the work place, because already at my high school kids go out between classes and take a smoke break (that's roughly two cigarettes per hour) and sometimes they even smoke weed and get high before class, resulting in suspension or being permanently removed from the school and losing the ability to get education temporarily, or just dropping out. The people who want it legalized most likely just want it because they're already addicted, or they don't realize how stupid the world could be with it.

First of all we are not talking about cigarettes. second of all it doesnt matter if its illegal or not because "Like you said" kids are still already doing it. And third of all I think you are very mis informed about the addictives that come with smoking pot and the health risk potentials it has upon your body. It is only addictive to those who have no will power or no common sense, people that throw there lives away doing nothing but smoking are the same people that are doing it anyway. And the effects of stupidity are honestly blown out of proportion. Alcohol is not illegal and some idiots still drink or come to school drunk....whats the difference man. You can not blame the drug, you can only blame the people.

And since weed impairs "many mental things" maybe you could be specific and tell me what those things are.

 

[Gabe]

I'm not even going to bother arguing, you guys can have your weed, but there's no real point to it so I don't see why everyone cares so much anyway, unless they want it.

Not everyone smokes cigarettes, and not everyone drinks, etc.

And yes, the people are the whole reason why this should not happen.

 

[Roland_Deschain]

I'm not even going to bother arguing, you guys can have your weed, but there's no real point to it so I don't see why everyone cares so much anyway, unless they want it.

We are not arguing about it, this is a debate thread. As far as I see no one here is arguing about anything....we are debating it. If people never debated about anything than everything would always stay the same. As this is a debate thread there is no real point in stepping in to say that its a pointless topic if you are not going to give your two cents. And yes we want it...hence the point of debating it =)

 

[M1ghty Mous3]

BUT isn't a consistent flow of money in a legal way more benificial than the government depending on people breaking the law?　Also it would be more money because it would be income everytime someone buys and not just when they get caught, also it would start a whole generation of smokers who stay away from it just because it is agains't the law.

Every 30 seconds someone is caught with possession and charged with it.

People smoking marijuana and getting caught is literally the BIGGEST thing raking in money for the Gov. in terms of the criminal justice system. They can ticket you, probation/diversion, and even jail time. Probation and diversion are not cheap, and if you include court costs, hello possible debt.

If looked at from a business aspect, it is smarter to keep Marijuana illegal. So i can see why it hasn't been legalized yet, also through in all the religious nut jobs who think that smoking it makes you a horrible person that has devoted their life to be ruined by a plant.

Am aware this topic has been dead for a bit, but felt it smarter to revive then start another thread and have people be like "the thread about this is here ....." ect.

:/ Most the kids getting caught for possession are from low-income backgrounds. The State ends up paying for detaining them, giving them an attorney, then putting them in a juvenile program. In other words, the taxpayer (you) pays for the majority of state costs. Also the State is getting drained rather than making money from this, it's better if they were able to reallocate resources for a better need (and we know all States are in a bit of a debt crunch at the moment).

Believe it or not, the government does care about its citizens' well-being (well to an extent). They're not going to make Marijuana addictive (?). And if Marijuana does become legal in the States, growing it in your backyard won't be illegal at all. It'll only be a federal crime if you grow it, then market it across state lines or something or other.

The main reason why there's difficulty in getting this legalized is the stigma that's been around on Marijuana. It's got a negative association that's carried from the long-ago past, so changing this isn't going to happen overnight. Plus, even if a State does make it legal, you've still got to wait for the other States AND the federal government to also follow suit for there to be any kind of corporate interest involved into making it a common shelf-item.

There's a big push towards legalization, but it's not going to happen right away since getting toked isn't really a substantial individual right like voting or something. Not enough people at the moment care enough for an instant and momentous shift. Just wait 'till the old dogs are out and the new generation starts filling the voting population. You've just got to be patient until it happens.

Maybe where you live, low income kids are getting arrested for it, but where I live, the kids and people getting charged with possession are not low income. And can afford stuff for themselves. A majority of the people getting caught, are not kids with no money, other wise why would they keep busting people for it if they make no money? Weather you think it or not, our government does have a huge interest in making money. If they lost more money then they made of it being illegal, they'd legalize it, if not for the simple fact that they wouldn't lose money and would be making profit again.

I'm pretty sure they would make growing America's 3rd largest cash crop illegal. They would lose SO MUCH MONEY. It's fairly inexpensive to have your own grow setup. And once you actually get it set up, it'll make up for the small fee it took to build it in 1 or 2 harvests. And I'm pretty sure they would tamper with it to some degree. Sure people will go back and buy cause they can legally do so, but at some point some people decide to quit. It'd be harder to quit and keep away from it when it's tampered with.

The main reason it's difficult to get legislation to pass legalization is not because of the stigma. Look at Phelps if you want one example. Look at Joe Rogan and Seth Rogan. The only reason people associate laziness with weed is because of Indica. For those who do not know, indica is a variation of the 2 main strains. Indica is more of a couch lock, imma sit here high. Sativa, the other variation, if more of a heady, Imma go do shit, high.

I'm aware there is alot of publicity and youth pressing for legalization. But the government can corrupt people when the join it. We need reform.

I definitely have to say no as it would just make people more stupid in general, since weed impairs many mental things, but will not kill you, and EVERYONE would be smoking and getting high and even if there was an age restriction, teens would still get connections, as teens already do have connections to cigarettes and of course, weed. It would just be a major distraction to education and the work place, because already at my high school kids go out between classes and take a smoke break (that's roughly two cigarettes per hour) and sometimes they even smoke weed and get high before class, resulting in suspension or being permanently removed from the school and losing the ability to get education temporarily, or just dropping out. The people who want it legalized most likely just want it because they're already addicted, or they don't realize how stupid the world could be with it.

Normally i would curse at you and tell you to shut the fuck up, but instead, am going to lay down some info for your un-imformed mind.

Honestly, some of the smartest people I know do, or have smoked weed. And while it can make you a dumb dumb at times, thats mainly from smoking too much. When smoking just the right amount, and actually be HIGH, instead of STONED, your more inclined to think broadly and extrovertly and introvertly.

As you stated above. Your in high school. Honestly, high school kids are dumb. Not saying YOU are, but high school kids in general. They are a more, lets have fun, type. When they really should focus on grades first, THEN smoke. I'm registered to a Marijuana forum. Most of the people there say they get their shit done then smoke when they have free time, because they don't have anything to do.

As for kids being able to get ahold of it. Alcohol is the hardest drug for teenagers to get a hold of. Why? BECAUSE IT'S REGULATED! You need a fucking I.D. to by a single Beer. Any kid that walks up to a dealer and asks for a sack will get it. Dealers don't care who they sell to (aside from if it's a cop) They just want to make their money.

The people who want it legalized are the people who use it for medicinal purposes and the people who smoke it because it's a plant that enhances life.

Do not for a second believe the world would be dumber if Marijuana was legalized. The world would be MUCH peacefuller.

As stated above. Am aware the thread has been dead for a bit, but felt it better to revive then start another.

I'm not even going to bother arguing, you guys can have your weed, but there's no real point to it so I don't see why everyone cares so much anyway, unless they want it.

Not everyone smokes cigarettes, and not everyone drinks, etc.

And yes, the people are the whole reason why this should not happen.

If you can't accept opinions other then your own i have some advice.

Stay out of The Sleeping Forest.

End of discussion.

If they are impaired and driving, people are going to die by car accidents or whatever,

Hate to break it to you, but people who drive while high have a tendency to driver slower.

http://cannacentral.com/news/driving-high-on-marijuana-not-an-impairment-study-says/

If you don't want a completely biased view, I suggest researching yourself, on both sides of the topic.

 

[Sum1sgruj]

It should have never been illegal in the first place. The main reason it was banned was due to economical issues, but to dampen that picture, the conservative assholes felt it appropriate to practically fabricate some evil image of it and poof!

 

[Rapture]

Hate to break it to you, but people who drive while high have a tendency to driver slower.

http://cannacentral.com/news/driving-high-on-marijuana-not-an-impairment-study-says/

If you don't want a completely biased view, I suggest researching yourself, on both sides of the topic.

...Okay


"A 2001 study by the United Kingdom Transit Research Laboratory (TRL) specifically focuses on the effects of cannabis use on driving,[37] and is one of the most recent and commonly quoted studies on the subject. The report summarizes current knowledge about the effects of cannabis on driving and accident risk based on a review of available literature published since 1994 and the effects of cannabis on laboratory based tasks.
The study identified young males, amongst whom cannabis consumption is frequent and increasing, and in whom alcohol consumption is also common, as a risk group for traffic accidents. This is due to driving inexperience and factors associated with youth relating to risk taking, delinquency and motivation. These demographic and psychosocial variables may relate to both drug use and accident risk, thereby presenting an artificial relationship between use of drugs and accident involvement.


The effects of cannabis on laboratory-based tasks show clear impairment with respect to tracking ability, attention, and other tasks depending on the dose administered. Both simulation and road trials generally find that driving behavior shortly after consumption of larger doses of cannabis results in:

• increased variability in lane position (such as taking a curve too tightly or too loosely).
• longer decision times, leading to slower responses to driving situations

Kelly, Darke and Ross[38] show similar results, with laboratory studies examining the effects of cannabis on skills utilised while driving showing impairments in tracking, attention, reaction time, short-term memory, hand-eye coordination, vigilance, time and distance perception, and decision making and concentration. An EMCDDA[39] review concluded that "the acute effect of moderate of higher doses of cannabis impairs the skills related to safe driving and injury risk", specifically "attention, tracking and psychomotor skills".[39] In their review of driving simulator studies, Kelly et al.[38] conclude that there is evidence of dose-dependent impairments in cannabis-affected drivers' ability to control a vehicle in the areas of steering, headway control, speed variability, car following, reaction time and lane positioning. The researchers note that "even in those who learn to compensate for a drug's impairing effects, substantial impairment in performance can still be observed under conditions of general task performance (i.e. when no contingencies are present to maintain compensated performance)."[39]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_cannabis


I still fail to see how smoking THC makes a person any safer of a driver. They say the rate of impairment is related to the amount which is taken in. So does that mean having one J/bowl would be safe, but 3 or 4 would cause impairment? ...

 

[Sum1sgruj]

'Studies' don't really mean much. I used to deliver pizza and I was stoned everyday and never had one incident. In city traffic, no less.
Everyone I know who smokes does just fine at driving. If not better really, because my urge to flick off the reckless person cutting lanes goes down considerably.
What they need to do is study and compare it to the legal substance alcohol, which we all know and love, so these haters would get off marijuana's nuts
It's quite literally the most harmless drug of all of them, practically bypassing any prescription drug in that respect.
That is what I think about banning something with so many uses. All the puffery about how bad it is, is exactly that- puffery. Take a few shots or pop some Vicodin and see who's driving better then a pot user.

 

[M1ghty Mous3]

...Okay


"A 2001 study by the United Kingdom Transit Research Laboratory (TRL) specifically focuses on the effects of cannabis use on driving,[37] and is one of the most recent and commonly quoted studies on the subject. The report summarizes current knowledge about the effects of cannabis on driving and accident risk based on a review of available literature published since 1994 and the effects of cannabis on laboratory based tasks.
The study identified young males, amongst whom cannabis consumption is frequent and increasing, and in whom alcohol consumption is also common, as a risk group for traffic accidents. This is due to driving inexperience and factors associated with youth relating to risk taking, delinquency and motivation. These demographic and psychosocial variables may relate to both drug use and accident risk, thereby presenting an artificial relationship between use of drugs and accident involvement.


The effects of cannabis on laboratory-based tasks show clear impairment with respect to tracking ability, attention, and other tasks depending on the dose administered. Both simulation and road trials generally find that driving behavior shortly after consumption of larger doses of cannabis results in:

• increased variability in lane position (such as taking a curve too tightly or too loosely).
• longer decision times, leading to slower responses to driving situations

Kelly, Darke and Ross[38] show similar results, with laboratory studies examining the effects of cannabis on skills utilised while driving showing impairments in tracking, attention, reaction time, short-term memory, hand-eye coordination, vigilance, time and distance perception, and decision making and concentration. An EMCDDA[39] review concluded that "the acute effect of moderate of higher doses of cannabis impairs the skills related to safe driving and injury risk", specifically "attention, tracking and psychomotor skills".[39] In their review of driving simulator studies, Kelly et al.[38] conclude that there is evidence of dose-dependent impairments in cannabis-affected drivers' ability to control a vehicle in the areas of steering, headway control, speed variability, car following, reaction time and lane positioning. The researchers note that "even in those who learn to compensate for a drug's impairing effects, substantial impairment in performance can still be observed under conditions of general task performance (i.e. when no contingencies are present to maintain compensated performance)."[39]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_cannabis


I still fail to see how smoking THC makes a person any safer of a driver. They say the rate of impairment is related to the amount which is taken in. So does that mean having one J/bowl would be safe, but 3 or 4 would cause impairment? ...

This is more dependent on the person.

Me for example. i can smoke like a bowl and be fine. But some people will not be able to smoke a bowl and still drive. I remember a time i was reeeeally high, and had to drive home. It was like 3 AM and no one else was on the road, but still. I tried to change the radio station and forgot to pay attention to the road and almost crashed.

Like I said, depends on the person and how mush is smoked.

I know some people who can drive perfectly fine while high, and some who can't. I would hope people have good judgement and know when they can and can't drive after smoking.


"These demographic and psychosocial variables may relate to both drug use and accident risk"

If your drinking AND smoking and then going to drive, you should have your license revoked, for 2 years.

I'm aware driving High is still driving IMPAIRED. But It's safer for people to drive high then drunk. Just a lesser of the two evils, I know. But if you were forced to choose which on people drove while intoxicated on, what would you choose?

'Studies' don't really mean much. I used to deliver pizza and I was stoned everyday and never had one incident. In city traffic, no less.
Everyone I know who smokes does just fine at driving. If not better really, because my urge to flick off the reckless person cutting lanes goes down considerably.
What they need to do is study and compare it to the legal substance alcohol, which we all know and love, so these haters would get off marijuana's nuts
It's quite literally the most harmless drug of all of them, practically bypassing any prescription drug in that respect.
That is what I think about banning something with so many uses. All the puffery about how bad it is, is exactly that- puffery. Take a few shots or pop some Vicodin and see who's driving better then a pot user.

^^ This.

 

[Valvalis]

Honestly I don't know the scale of potency for recreational drugs or alcohol, but I have heard many times that marijuana is healthier for a person than some of the smokes or drinks that are legal, so if that's really true, then I think it's kind of stupid to keep more harmful things legal and not allow marijuana to be. Honestly it smells better than cigarettes IMO so I wouldn't mind from that perspective. But the main problem with any recreational drug is the effects shit-faced people have on others in society, so that would be where any moral concerns come into play.

I don't care if someone wants to mess themself up, but when people get in a car or handle dangerous objects like weapons while intoxicated, then that's where I have a problem. So I honestly don't know whether I would want another drug added to the legal list without some other drug being taken off. However, legal or not, many people who use drugs or drink regularly wouldn't readily give them up if the laws changed anyway. And I don't think there would be a huge rush of people suddenly starting marijuana if it was legalized. So other than medicinal uses being implemented, I don't think the use of marijuana would go way up all that much if it were legalized.

 

[Roland_Deschain]

...Okay


"A 2001 study by the United Kingdom Transit Research Laboratory (TRL) specifically focuses on the effects of cannabis use on driving,[37] and is one of the most recent and commonly quoted studies on the subject. The report summarizes current knowledge about the effects of cannabis on driving and accident risk based on a review of available literature published since 1994 and the effects of cannabis on laboratory based tasks.
The study identified young males, amongst whom cannabis consumption is frequent and increasing, and in whom alcohol consumption is also common, as a risk group for traffic accidents. This is due to driving inexperience and factors associated with youth relating to risk taking, delinquency and motivation. These demographic and psychosocial variables may relate to both drug use and accident risk, thereby presenting an artificial relationship between use of drugs and accident involvement.





The effects of cannabis on laboratory-based tasks show clear impairment with respect to tracking ability, attention, and other tasks depending on the dose administered. Both simulation and road trials generally find that driving behavior shortly after consumption of larger doses of cannabis results in:

• increased variability in lane position (such as taking a curve too tightly or too loosely).
• longer decision times, leading to slower responses to driving situations

Kelly, Darke and Ross[38] show similar results, with laboratory studies examining the effects of cannabis on skills utilised while driving showing impairments in tracking, attention, reaction time, short-term memory, hand-eye coordination, vigilance, time and distance perception, and decision making and concentration. An EMCDDA[39] review concluded that "the acute effect of moderate of higher doses of cannabis impairs the skills related to safe driving and injury risk", specifically "attention, tracking and psychomotor skills".[39] In their review of driving simulator studies, Kelly et al.[38] conclude that there is evidence of dose-dependent impairments in cannabis-affected drivers' ability to control a vehicle in the areas of steering, headway control, speed variability, car following, reaction time and lane positioning. The researchers note that "even in those who learn to compensate for a drug's impairing effects, substantial impairment in performance can still be observed under conditions of general task performance (i.e. when no contingencies are present to maintain compensated performance)."[39]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_cannabis


I still fail to see how smoking THC makes a person any safer of a driver. They say the rate of impairment is related to the amount which is taken in. So does that mean having one J/bowl would be safe, but 3 or 4 would cause impairment? ...

Well this is one of those "fear" studies created just to justify its dangers. Also I do not think most people smoke 4 bowls to begin with let alone smoke 4 bowls and drive. Also this study was most likely done on someone who has no tolerance to the drug itself (they fail to mention that) and like all things MJ has a tolerance level specified to each individual person, and the first few times you smoke it of course its going to be more extreme. Yet still how many fatal accidents have you heard of where the driver was stoned. Also the guy before said that you become a "slower" driver, not a "better" driver. And it does not matter why you are impaired, if you are driving slower than it is less dangerous.

Yet this is not the point regardless. The point is that people do not need to drive stoned, and also that most of them do not. To keep the drug illegal for road reasons is ludacris. If you believe everything you read is rellevant than I dont know what to do for you. The people who are against the illegalization are those who began to think for themselves and will openly dispute the matter. Did these studies happen to mention that this drug can also increase performance? The evidence that they have on driving should make no difference about it being legal or not. If it remains illegal than people are going to drive on it regardless because its illegal where ever they smoke it, if you make it legal than the people will meet you halfway and smoke freely outside because they do not need to hide in a vehicle. Most cases of people smoking in their cars are because they can not smoke it anywhere else. Why not take away that reason as well.

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, you just have to climb the fence to see for yourself.

 

[Rapture]

Well this is one of those "fear" studies created just to justify its dangers.

See how we are both biased here? Because you support legalization of this drug means that all research supporting that it impairs a person's
driving is given the stigma of being a "fear" study. I could easily say that all research regarding people who smoke THC and drive slower is ridiculous, or etc...but I didn't. I was asked to research so MY argument against legalization was less biased regarding that people who are high "drive slower" so I found a study that states even if they do figure a way to compensate for being impaired they are still...impaired?

Also I do not think most people smoke 4 bowls to begin with let alone smoke 4 bowls and drive.

I never said they did really...it was an open ended question directed towards the part of the study that referenced that the rate of impairment was related to the amount "inhaled" "smoked" or etc... But you know, just like people who have 4 or 5 drinks and think they can handle the drive home, who is to say the same couldn't be said for someone who smokes 4 or 5 J's/bowls and can no longer realize their limit and goes out for a drive? Impairment is impairment. Decision making skills are degraded and the ability to reason could therefore be limited.

Also this study was most likely done on someone who has no tolerance to the drug itself (they fail to mention that) and like all things MJ has a tolerance level specified to each individual person, and the first few times you smoke it of course its going to be more extreme.

The study was done on "young males whose cannabis consumption is frequent and increasing." Which I would venture to guess might be teenagers/early 20's....and perhaps a lot of the demographic of this thread.

Also the guy before said that you become a "slower" driver, not a "better" driver.

Uh ohhhh...I never said "better" I said "safer"...there's a difference I wanted someone to show me evidence/research that using THC makes them a safer driver. ...and I really don't think that slower equals safer.

And it does not matter why you are impaired, if you are driving slower than it is less dangerous.

Are you sure the words driving, impaired and less dangerous should be used in the same sentence? You might not think it matters HOW someone is impaired or to what extent...if this person is driving it does NOT make them any less dangerous on the road if they are driving slower. I'm sorry but if you drive under the speed limit on the interstate you become a bit of a road hazard, don't you agree? Even on the public roads... unless the people who are high only drive in the middle of the night when there's less traffic and its safer? :wtf:

If you believe everything you read is rellevant than I dont know what to do for you.

Not everything I just find it hard to believe that everyone has hours/days/months/years of their lives to waste making complete nonsense and then publish it as a commonly referenced study, or etc... This is a debate thread. This is my view. ...and because we don't agree doesn't mean that anything needs to be "done" for me. :dave:

Did these studies happen to mention that this drug can also increase performance?

...again. I was asked to research the effects on driving so that my "bias" wouldn't be so "biased" I guess if I back it with some sort of study. I'm not going back to reference the performance of the drug...because I really don't care. I don't care if people want to perform outstandingly at home...when they get on the roads with a high level of THC and are impaired and are driving on the roads with me...then yeah its a problem for me...because I'm not going to feel safe ..and yes, you can say the same for the alcohol that is already legal today and aids people in driving drunk.

The evidence that they have on driving should make no difference about it being legal or not.

You might not think it does...but there wouldn't be so many studies relating to THC and driving if people didn't think it was an important issue with its use.

If it remains illegal than people are going to drive on it regardless because its illegal where ever they smoke it...

Yes, but I'm sure the amount will be less if it stays illegal.

if you make it legal than the people will meet you halfway and smoke freely outside...

...Then we get into the issue of second hand smoke...that was another of the reasons why I don't want it legalized. I'm not going to put it here..and I'm sure you won't bother...but I already posted my problems with the secondhand smoke in one of my previous posts in this thread.