(Monologue) My Shame With the FF Fanbase

[FinalxxSin]

Tldr; I don’t see things getting better in this situation.

Before I get started, I’ll say that I am in some aspects part of the problem as well. Some time back, I acknowledged how divided the fan base is. My thoughts back then was that it is a beautiful thing. What I had assumed, was that it would create a great platform to have some great conversations/debates due to differences. Recently, I have found out how wrong my thought process is in reality. The reality is that a good chunk of the vocal aspect of the fan base is a combination of entitlement, conformity, and a lack of acknowledgement.

I’ll start with the entitlement aspect. I feel there are a good amount of people that feel that Square should do A, B, C just because it’s demanded so much. No, it doesn’t work like that. A product is produced, and that’s all there is too it. Sure, feedback may be taken up, but no gaming company is ever going to revolve strictly around a single target of people that wants to have long term success. If a person doesn’t like something, then the person should talk with their wallet. Below is an example of an entitlement post that I read on a different forum:

The conformity aim is pretty cringy to me. I’ve seen this often from some of the older people of the fan base. No, a new person does not necessarily need to play the older titles in order to have their opinion/viewpoint validated. The people coming up more than likely did not play the same games that an older person did as they grew up. So expectations are going to be different by default. Even people within the same time frame may seek different things. For example, some people enjoy story a lot. Some others will like exploration and mystery. Some people seek fun mini-games. Would it be recommended for newer people to play some of the older titles to get a feel of how things were in the past? Yes. It will not be the end of the world if a person dislikes/likes something that a different person has the opposite stance on. When it’s all said and done, subjectively what defines as Final Fantasy for one person may radically be different from what the next person subjectively defines. If every person thought and acted the same, the world would be a boring place to live in. If people wish to go into objective territory, then people such as Hironobu Sakaguchi should be looked into on their thoughts, if there are any toward a more present title.

Finally, I’d like to address the lack of acknowledgement. I’ll put this out here right now: There is no objectively perfect mainline Final Fantasy title. The mark will become harder and harder to achieve as time goes by. That will be due to the increased variety of interest in the gaming community as a whole. One can dislike/hate a title, but that does not automatically mean that the title is objectively trash/garbage/bad. On the other hand, just because game “X” is your favorite of all time, does not mean it is without flaws. As long as a person is alive, there is always going to be criticism, which could be toward that person or something else, regardless of it being direct or indirect. In fact, even after a person rots in their grave, criticism will continue to exist. Without criticism a lot of products/people would have not been able to achieve their highest potential. I’ll provide a sports example: The retired NBA player Michael Jordan faced criticism on multiple occasions through his years. When MJ was criticized for not doing something, he proved the critics wrong time and time again by stepping up to the plate. The currently successful FFXIV faced heavy criticism in its early days, but has since turned things around with a revamped version that is still going strong today. The next mainline title FFXV has received a good amount of criticism, yet has been able to improve due to some of it. If there is no criticism provided, then that means things are looking great or worse those who would provide criticism have stopped caring.

I feel those are a few of the reasons why the fan base will only gradually become worse as time goes by. I believe there is for sure a nasty divide between new and old. To say the least, I am ashamed to be a part of this fan base. I will always contribute to the problem as a person.

 

[ZaXo Ken'Ichi]

All things I've been trying to tell people for years, so it goes without saying that I pretty much agree. That being said, I'm not ashamed to be a part of the fanbase, so much as I'm disappointed in how close-minded and disrespectful people can be. Like I've said before, the talk people throw around can have an effect on the industry. Doing nothing but harshly criticizing something is only guaranteed to -at best- lead to nothing, and -at worst- lead to more issues. People can criticize all they want. But they need to be informed, be able to set their prejudices and expectations aside, and most importantly, try to offer solutions. It's easy to say something is flawed. It's much, much harder to actually understand when something is actually flawed, why it's flawed, and how to fix it. The only (really terrible) solace I find in this, is that these problems are by no means unique to Final Fantasy. The sucky part? I'm part of several of the communities that tend to be considered the most toxic in this regard. It gets... tiring.

 

[redgrave]

I think u take this "fandom" thing way too fkng seriously. Ppl spend way too much time on the internet. Ashamed to be part of the "FF Fanbase"? Get over yourself.

 

[ZaXo Ken'Ichi]

I think u take this "fandom" thing way too fkng seriously. Ppl spend way too much time on the internet. Ashamed to be part of the "FF Fanbase"? Get over yourself.

We have a classic crybaby grumpypants over here

 

[redgrave]

We have a classic crybaby grumpypants over here

I beg to differ. It's obvious its you two Maybe u should cut down on all the forums you've joined

 

[ZaXo Ken'Ichi]

Not hardly. Again, this sort of stuff has an impact on the industry. It has an impact on how journalism is done in the industry as well. This just isn't as simple as 'being upset because people are loud on the internet'. Whether we like it or not, the internet is integrated into modern western society. What is said here matters, because only a fool assumes these massive companies don't look at this stuff. And often they get the wrong impression, because a select few people are too loud. It is a real problem.

 

[Harlequin]

Below is an example of an entitlement post that I read on a different forum:

If the poster you've linked is referring to the delay then that's a poor example to use. They're fully within their rights to voice their displeasure over SE's handling of this latest debacle, both in terms of competence and customer service.

Doing nothing but harshly criticizing something is only guaranteed to -at best- lead to nothing, and -at worst- lead to more issues.

Not true. FFXIV, a convenient example within the franchise, received so much damning criticism that SE were forced to pull the product and give it a huge makeover. Harsh criticism can lead to nothing, or it can lead to developers putting out better work in the future. Nor does criticism have to be constructive; saying something is terrible without providing suggestions on how to improve it doesn't invalidate criticism.

 

[iSmiff]

Not true. FFXIV, a convenient example within the franchise, received so much damning criticism that SE were forced to pull the product and give it a huge makeover. Harsh criticism can lead to nothing, or it can lead to developers putting out better work in the future. Nor does criticism have to be constructive; saying something is terrible without providing suggestions on how to improve it doesn't invalidate criticism.

Completely agree. I think the consumers have a right to criticise. Did they improve on XIII after criticism? No idea, but from what I hear it sounds like they did. Were the sequels less linear?

Personally I've not been happy with a FF title since X really. XII was OKAY but it was then, where I barely got half way through, that I started to worry for the series. Then XIII happened and the less we say about that the better, I don't want to make anyone elses life a living hell

And let's keep the hurling of insults, no matter how serious, to a minimum in this thread please. I don't want another batch of inmates to the D-District prison

 

[AuronX]

Pretty much agreed with OP here, except this part:

I feel those are a few of the reasons why the fan base will only gradually become worse as time goes by.

That seems like a pretty pessimistic conclusion to make IMO. I don't see any reason why things can't get better among the fan base, but here's the problem: the fan base is waiting for SE to pull a miracle to set not just Final Fantasy as a series straight, but itself as well. As if releasing a perfect game would unite the fan base once more, and there would be peace and harmony across the land...

Well, that's not going to happen, I'll give you that. It's not SE's responsibility to fix the fan base, it's the fan base's responsibility. But that also means there's always a window of opportunity. We don't have to wait for FFXV or the perfect FF for things to get better. To be honest, what I expect will happen (assuming FFXV succeeds) is that a new generation of FF fans who actually like the series will come along and more or less take over. And without an audience for their grievances, anyone of the old generation who's not happy will eventually move on. The influx of positive voices will drown out the negative ones that have been allowed free reign for too long.

As for people demanding tears and profuse apologies for a delay, well, that's just the internet for you in general. I doesn't matter whether it's Final Fantasy or someone's UPS package arriving a day late, people are impatient and if they have an internet connection they will complain about it--some more excitedly than others. Don't feed the trolls, as the adage goes--the best thing you can do is ignore posts like that and move on.

 

[JigoKuu]

I think almost every fandom has extremist members, and I'm sad that people outside FF fandom (or any fandom) will foredoom/doom the whole hobby based on the extremist, violent, and ill-bred members they meet. We can't really do anything against them, I try to be as supportive and positive as I can, and I try not to let them have more space than unavoidable.

So I really understand what you mean. I often feel ashamed behalf of these rude members. And it's really hard to break the stereotype/prejudice they cause. ^^"

 

[ZaXo Ken'Ichi]

Nor does criticism have to be constructive; saying something is terrible without providing suggestions on how to improve it doesn't invalidate criticism.

Part of the point I was trying to make, was that there's a difference between criticism, and just bitching. True criticism is informed, and by nature constructive. So yes, real criticism has to be constructive. What invalidates criticism is when its based off of useless information, misinformation, and other things that generally provide an ill informed take on the subject. For example, people criticized XIV because it was broken. That's generally fair, and providing any sort of insight into why one thinks it's broken is inherently constructive. Criticizing it because it doesn't play like Final Fantasy X is not valid criticism, because it wasn't trying to be like Final Fantasy X. Or just saying things like 'its ugly', also isn't useful, because it provides no information outside of how it clashes with your own personal aesthetic preferences. People can say whatever the hell they want. My point was, people shouldn't complain, and then expect things to improve if all they've done is complain. Were I to post some of my art, and get the response "This is dumb and ugly because I don't like manga", I don't get anything from that. If you don't like manga, no f-ing shite you won't like my work. I suppose I didn't clarify well enough in my earlier post, but I'm saying that's not the same as someone telling me the perspective looks off, and this line is a little strange, etc. They don't even have to tell me how it looks off, or how I might fix it. Just that information is enough to focus my thoughts on specific issues that I can improve, hence being constructive. I'm saying, criticism at its core needs to be based on something useful to be worth a damn to the creator. That's not optional, because otherwise you're not criticizing (because you're not using critical thought), you're just complaining. What is optional is giving as much helpful info as possible, and offering solutions solutions, though it's still obviously preferred.

 

[Harlequin]

So yes, real criticism has to be constructive.

...

I'm saying, criticism at its core needs to be based on something useful to be worth a damn to the creator. That's not optional, because otherwise you're not criticizing (because you're not using critical thought), you're just complaining.

No it doesn't. I understood the point you were making in both posts but you're conflating the definition of criticism with your expectations of criticism.

If I say FFXV looks like it's going to be terrible that's "real" criticism It doesn't have to be informed, constructive, elaborated on or even accurate. As for these opinions being worth a damn to the creators, I assure you SE won't be disregarding criticism that isn't constructive. If you're a potential customer your criticism is always valid and it's up to the company to work out how to improve their product, not the consumers. If SE want me to think of ways to improve their game they can go ahead and pay me, I'm a consumer not their creative director, but my criticism along with millions of others directly affects their bottom line and reputation so it's certainly real, useful and valid.

 

[redgrave]

No it doesn't. I understood the point you were making in both posts but you're conflating the definition of criticism with your expectations of criticism.

If I say FFXV looks like it's going to be terrible that's "real" criticism It doesn't have to be informed, constructive, elaborated on or even accurate. As for these opinions being worth a damn to the creators, I assure you SE won't be disregarding criticism that isn't constructive. If you're a potential customer your criticism is always valid and it's up to the company to work out how to improve their product, not the consumers. If SE want me to think of ways to improve their game they can go ahead and pay me, I'm a consumer not their creative director, but my criticism along with millions of others directly affects their bottom line and reputation so it's certainly real, useful and valid.

Jfc someone gets it. Couldn't have said it any better myself lol.

Negating others views n opinions bc they're not logical or constructive or elaborated on etc is toxic elitism in itself. Sry but not everybody goes on forums js to write up long-winded responses in the avid hopes that developers will someday read them, I mean really?? lol if SE wants my damn feedback, I'll contact them directly.