Nonconformism

[Demon]

Little Big Boss once said to me:

I get a little annoyed (go figure) with this non conformist, "I don't think that someone who is x thinks they are y, but really y is actually x" way of thinking that's meant to deliberately go against what others are saying. I'm not intentionally implying that this is what you're doing. But after dealing with alot of these people, it just kinda sounds like that's what you're saying.

My argument will be "I don't have a problem with it."

Also, we are debating whether it's wrong to go against what others are saying. This not a person-to-person argument. Which means that if Little Big Boss were to say "well that's not what I meant", the argument still applies since I'm the one introducing the points. So...

Nonconformism according to dictionary.com:
"a lack of orthodoxy in thoughts or beliefs"

 

[Sultan]

Nonconformism for the sake of nonconformity in itself, is conformity. If you have an opinion that's popular, then great, but if you deny that opinion for being under pressure of falling into the "conformity trap" then you're deliberately following a thought that isn't yours.

You can be who you want to be, you can act the way you want to act, and you can like whatever it is you like. What's important is that you're doing it for yourself and you know why you're doing it.

 

[Demon]

Nonconformism for the sake of nonconformity in itself, is conformity. If you have an opinion that's popular, then great, but if you deny that opinion for being under pressure of falling into the "conformity trap" then you're deliberately following a thought that isn't yours.

You can be who you want to be, you can act the way you want to act, and you can like whatever it is you like. What's important is that you're doing it for yourself and you know why you're doing it.

There is a slight problem in your statements. Since the points you described are not absolutes, it's possible that one can be a nonconformist and still not follow them. You're confusing nonconformists with nonconformism.

 

[Dr. Percival Cox]

Nonconformism for the sake of nonconformity in itself, is conformity. If you have an opinion that's popular, then great, but if you deny that opinion for being under pressure of falling into the "conformity trap" then you're deliberately following a thought that isn't yours.

You can be who you want to be, you can act the way you want to act, and you can like whatever it is you like. What's important is that you're doing it for yourself and you know why you're doing it.

That's basically what I've been trying to say for the last few years. I got a buddy who goes against things that are popular just because he wants to be different. Not realizing that by going against something that is popular for the sake of being different (going against a theme, not falling into a group, etc.) he's conforming with other people who also wish to be different by going against anything that's popular, which creates a group (or theme) which is the main thing that conformists try to avoid. They're fucking their belief by following it. What's wrong with just doing what you enjoy without worrying about how many other people like or dislike it? Well, unless that thing is like bestiality. Then, you might want to keep that to yourself.

 

[Squid]

I believe that there is no such thing as Nonconformity, because no matter what you do you will be conforming with at least one group or another.

If you conform, you're conforming with the masses
If you don't conform you're conforming with people but of a lesser scale.

Remember the emo-phase everyone went through? People who became emo did it to stand out, they didn't want to be like everyone else, they wanted tobe a nonconformist... but my lord, how many emo's suddenly started popping up?? millions! So eventually being an emo was popular and everyone was conforming by trying not to conform.

Its a stupid cycle. Just like what you like, don't hate/like it for the sake of conforming or not conforming!

 

[Ayumi Hamasaki]

I believe that there is no such thing as Nonconformity, because no matter what you do you will be conforming with at least one group or another.

That's the truth of the matter. It's like the whole mainstream, anti-mainstream thing. If the only reason you dislike something is that it's popular, and you hate popular things, then you're just conforming to another stereotype. It sounds silly, and sappy to say it but the simplest way to not conform is not thing about it all.

I like Ke$ha, she's popular. I like Stevie Nicks, she's not. I like Ayumi Hamasaki, who's famous in Japan. I like people who everyone knows and people who no one knows. I don't let popularity decide my beliefs for me.

It's like when it's cool to question religion, and everyone just goes against it because it's the in thing. When you actually ask someone why, they just stare blankly at you, because they don't have reason other than "Everyone else loves God" or something ridiculous like that.

 

[Emyunoxious]

It's like when it's cool to question religion, and everyone just goes against it because it's the in thing. When you actually ask someone why, they just stare blankly at you, because they don't have reason other than "Everyone else loves God" or something ridiculous like that.

I've never seen that happen. I doubt anyone has ever seen that happen, and that's just a really poor example.

The reason that people question religion is because it doesn't make a lick of sense. It's not something that "cool" kids do, because cool kids are too busy hanging out with their "youth groups". 70% of America is Christian, so it's not unpopular. Questioning religion is something intelligent people do, because they've actually thought about it.

Note that I'm not saying that all intelligent people are atheist, nor are all atheists intelligent. You don't have to be an atheist to question religion, but it does help.

 

[Ayumi Hamasaki]

I've never seen that happen. I doubt anyone has ever seen that happen, and that's just a really poor example.

.

Naturally, just because you personally haven't seen it, you think it's a poor example. Well I have seen it, and it's not a poor example. It's an actual example. I've heard people talk who's reasons boil down to, I don't believe in God because it's a "established" religion. Established meaning that it's mainstream and accessible.

When people dislike something only because it's "established" they are disliking something because it's popular. If your only reason for not believing in God is that so many other people do, then it's the same thing as what I said.

 

[Dionysos]

It's true that there are a lot of people who are irritated by things that are popular, and want to stand out as different and like things a little bit unorthodox.

You see this everywhere you go. Let's take FF for an example... You see a lot of people loving FFVII, but then you also see a lot of people who enjoy to hate FFVII. Some of this latter group are genuine haters who dislike the game, but for some of the people who hate the game at least a portion of that hate stems from the fact that the game was popular and has had a lot of attention.

When some people look around and see everybody dressed in the same styles, liking the same music, talking about the same subjects (for men it often seems to be women, beer and football - or so goes the joke - though personally those topics never pop up with my friends who I've been lucky enough to find are very, very strange), encouraging one another to continue being the same, and generally being the same, it can lead a person to sigh and wish to be different, and to feel like they could be something else. It doesn't necessarily have to be to show off yourself as being strikingly different, as this would likely only get you socially shunned anyway. Some people just like to have interests that are not of the norm, and to not feel socially obliged to play football and listen to Lady Gaga to keep their contracts with the social circle.

I can completely understand this, but at the same time I believe that you need to have a genuine interest in things, rather than looking up what is strange and wonderful and picking a few things for the sake of it. Follow your interests and what fascinates you, or experiment (within reason) if you are unsure where your interests lie, or to find out if your interest is as strong as you had previously thought. Ideally we shouldn't feel the need to follow the norm, but we shouldn't follow the abnormal either. We should just follow what we like.

In a world where acceptance into groups is almost essential for life it is easy to see why people would conform, or be nonconformist (in the way where people conform to social minorities) in order to secure a group for themselves. When people fail to conform in isolation, then they are labelled as insane and weird, and shunned, laughed at or ignored by groups.

Likewise, by being in a group people would find themselves shunned, laughed at or ignored by opposing groups, and the larger the social group you have allied yourself with is, the better chance you have at being accepted. We're still quite primitive and animalistic in this respect.

 

[Rydia]

I tend to call them nonconformist conformist.

I've rarely met anyone who was a true nonconformist and just about all do not really care that they are not conforming.

The most common way I see people not conforming is by joining a less popular sub culture (Goths, punks, geeks, trekkies.) Their group preaches how they are not conforming to what is popular and how they are individuals whey they are really just conforming to their subculture.

God even Disney and Nick did this back in the day. They'd have a goth or punk character on one of their shows and would describe the character as being "unique" or "original".