Pedophilia - Is it wrong?

[Harlequin]

It's not contradiction to say that I have a process for thinking and that I can use that process to think for myself.

Also, I don't need to qualify it. I'm simply saying that an atheist has not subscribed to they way of thinking you had stated.

Upon reading my post I've realised how unclear I was sorry.

I meant it was a contradiction to say you think for yourself yet use the word 'engineered' when referencing society's influence on you. It was a wording issue. Engineered implies you're part of a mold and that you've been 'churned out'.

You don't need to qualify your statement, but in order for the rest of us to understand why you think the way you do qualifing it is essential. Otherwise we're all at loggerheads.

I wasn't really replying to you concerning pedophilia, I was just objecting to what you said about atheists.

Fair enough.

 

[VinnieJones]

I see a lot of posts about consequences we potentially face if pedophilia is considered right (leading to marriage etc), but what does calling it wrong do? Is it going to stop them? Do we have to call it right or wrong?

It isn't something that person chose; they don't become pedophiles 'on purpose'. It's an unintentional mental problem, which is why it's neither right nor wrong in my opinion.

I'm going to repeat something I said previously in this thread; give the pedophiles comfort to seek for help before things get out of hand. Let them tell people about their state without them fearing rejection. Calling it wrong at the stage of them having thoughts isn't going to help prevent them commiting a sexual act on a child (due to irresistible sexual urges caused by mental weakness), letting them know that they can get out of trouble will help protect the person with pedophilia and the potential child victim.

I don't know if a cure for pedophilia even exists, but do we ignore cancer treatment just because we don't have a cure for it? Attempting to fix a problem is better than just calling it a problem.

EDIT: please bare in mind that I don't think in the way of 'pedophilia = child sexual abuse'. It leads to it, but they are different.

 

[Ohri-Jin]

I've heard the arguments that pedophilia is the same as being gay. I take that statement offensively seeing as how they're just trying to justify what they're doing.

Of course I don't agree with their argument, but I see why they're doing it. They're comparing it to being gay because it's sexual preference. However, a child legally can't consent to sex. Granted, being gay once wasn't accepted among society like pedophilia is now, but... I don't see the laws against statutory rape being changed anytime soon.

I think they're saying that becuz Gayness is determined at birth, you dont become gay midpoint in your life, you're either a gay or not. I believe they proofed it with scientific facts.

[LINK]
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Homosexual-by-Birth-41918.shtml
[LINK]

However Pedophilia can be different, it can can be determined at birth (im not sure) but also if someone has a brain tumor it can affect your way of thinking and make you do things you dont want to do, this also aplies for some serial killers.

So really "Some" people cant do anything against it, its like nature and evolution and such lol

 

[Harlequin]

But what does calling it wrong do? Is it going to stop them? Do we have to call it right or wrong?

In the strictest sense, yes, we do have to come to an agreement about whether it's right or wrong as a society because we have to decide whether or not to ban such behaviour.

It isn't something that person chose; they don't become pedophiles 'on purpose'. It's an unintentional mental problem, which is why it's neither right nor wrong in my opinion.

I'm going to repeat something I said previously in this thread; give the pedophiles comfort to seek for help before things get out of hand. Let them tell people about their state without them fearing rejection. Calling it wrong at the stage of them having thoughts isn't going to help prevent them commiting a sexual act on a child (due to irresistible sexual urges caused by mental weakness), letting them know that they can get out of trouble will help protect the person with pedophilia and the potential child victim.

I don't know if a cure for pedophilia even exists, but do we ignore cancer treatment just because we don't have a cure for it? Attempting to fix a problem is better than just calling it a problem.

EDIT: please bare in mind that I don't think in the way of 'pedophilia = child sexual abuse'. It leads to it, but they are different.

Maybe in an ideal world they could seek help, but they can't possibly afford to in this day and age.

Curiously, although you've stated that paedophilia (as in orientation) isn't wrong you have stated that it's a problem and that they 'should' seek help.

 

[VinnieJones]

Curiously, although you've stated that paedophilia (as in orientation) isn't wrong you have stated that it's a problem and that they 'should' seek help.

yeah I noticed it afterwoods, I don't really know how to describe it really. maybe 'potential problem'?

I did say they should seek for help but that doesn't mean I think it's wrong. People with bad eyesight 'should' seek help by going to opticians. Is having bad vision wrong? It will be a reason for a problem, say if that person causes a car crash. Same for pedophilia, it's a reason for causing child abuse but before actions and decisions are made by that person, it's not right or wrong.

 

[Dean Winchester]

To make it clear: any kind of sexual assault is wrong and should be punished without any consideration. However we must not underestimate the psychological development of the human mind. Some people become more aware about right and wrong sooner than others, hence why we have girls of 14 and up having boyfriends older than them because most boys of their age are still on the process of growing a pair. So all depends on the situation and the people involved.

Besides who would look at a teenager when you have the vast array of hot (and older)wimminz at your local University who are still available? Sorry teen girls of FFF, no offence. We had to deal with puberty all by ourselves just to be masochist enough to relive it through someone else. Again, no offence teens.

*EDIT*
PS: Posting from a cellPHONE is hard

 

[Shu]

As Mits and I were discussing on MSN, when you think of pedophilia do you truly think of 15-18 year olds or 13 and under?

This thread has turned into an issue of minors not only pre-pubescent teens. Why is it wrong to think these thoughts? And why are so many folks comparing it to homosexuality? One deals with sexual attraction to small children, the other is sexual attraction to ones same sex. There is a HUGE line between the two. True they both deal with "sexual attraction" but one is a law for a reason and the other is not.

Like I said before, I can't back all laws. I disagree with quite a few in fact, but in general the age of consent, should never be lowered. The fact that folks are willing to give away their innocence is their own damn thing, but some folks are just so naive at that age, because they heard it feels good etc, without knowingly knowing the risk, or the damage it puts on the parents.

If I knew my kid (which I don't have one, so no room to speak here) was being stared at (providing I had a girl) but nothing was to happen, well I would still give them a look. My brain can't wrap around why Pedophilia would be considered right in anyone's eyes in fact. So call that a closed minded thing, but there are too many disturbing facts that can be linked with predatorial (not a word, but I'm claiming it) thinking here.

Do not confuse pedophilia with a fetish.

 

[Harlequin]

As Mits and I were discussing on MSN, when you think of pedophilia do you truly think of 15-18 year olds or 13 and under?

When I think of paedophilia I think below legal age, which is 16 in the UK.

I spell it paedophilia because that's how it's spelt in the UK btw

This thread has turned into an issue of minors not only pre-pubescent teens. Why is it wrong to think these thoughts? And why are so many folks comparing it to homosexuality?

I don't believe it's wrong to think the thoughts seeing as the paedophile can do little about that.

The reason people are comparing paedophilia to homosexuality is that the two are sexual orientations, but once acted upon one becomes illegal and another doesn't and that's the fundamental difference.

Do not confuse pedophilia with a fetish.

The problem is many people believe it to be a fetish and I'd have to agree with them. Much like there are fetishes for feet and bondage. Not that I condone the action at all.

 

[The Witch]

As Mits and I were discussing on MSN, when you think of pedophilia do you truly think of 15-18 year olds or 13 and under?

This thread has turned into an issue of minors not only pre-pubescent teens. Why is it wrong to think these thoughts? And why are so many folks comparing it to homosexuality? One deals with sexual attraction to small children, the other is sexual attraction to ones same sex. There is a HUGE line between the two. True they both deal with "sexual attraction" but one is a law for a reason and the other is not.

Like I said before, I can't back all laws. I disagree with quite a few in fact, but in general the age of consent, should never be lowered. The fact that folks are willing to give away their innocence is their own damn thing, but some folks are just so naive at that age, because they heard it feels good etc, without knowingly knowing the risk, or the damage it puts on the parents.

If I knew my kid (which I don't have one, so no room to speak here) was being stared at (providing I had a girl) but nothing was to happen, well I would still give them a look. My brain can't wrap around why Pedophilia would be considered right in anyone's eyes in fact. So call that a closed minded thing, but there are too many disturbing facts that can be linked with predatorial (not a word, but I'm claiming it) thinking here.

Do not confuse pedophilia with a fetish.

Yes, exactly my thoughts.

Like you pointed out, when I hear "pedophilia" I tend to think of a child under the age of 13, which is what most pedophilias go after.

None of you have yet to show WHAT is so inherently wrong about finding kids sexually attractive.

What about anonymous pedophilia, which does nothing to hurt you or anyone else, gives you and all the other moral zealots in this thread the right to harass and stereotype them on a public message board?

BECAUSE YOU KNOW WE'RE ALL CAVEMEN WHO ARE INCAPABLE OF CONTROLLING OUR THOUGHTS AND ACTIONS, AND obviously if we have ONE fetish, we're completely incapable of going out in public without acting on it, right?

I don't believe it's wrong to think the thoughts seeing as the paedophile can do little about that.

Pedophilia is disgusting and wrong because it's usually children under the age of 13. A child under that age limit cannot fend for themselves nor know right from wrong. If a pedophilia relationshop is wanted by both or not, it's still wrong.

The child's body is immature and cannot take the sexual acts of of an adult. They do not understand the meaning and body changing affect sex has. Pedophiles get off on kids because they love thinking about taking their innocence.

Like Shu said, children cannot understand the affects of it.

How can anyone here prove that pedophilias do not act on their attraction?

 

[Harlequin]

Pedophilia is disgusting and wrong because it's usually children under the age of 13. A child under that age limit cannot fend for themselves nor know right from wrong. If a pedophilia relationshop is wanted by both or not, it's still wrong.

The thing is bubblegum (i like that username ), it's not the relationship that's under debate anymore. We're discussing whether it's right or wrong to be sexually attracted to a child but without actually engaging in any relationship with any child. Which I can't say is right or wrong.

How can anyone here prove that pedophilias do not act on their attraction?

How can anyone prove that they do? The only way we know a paedophile is a paedophile is when they commit the act or when they come out with it (which, by and large, wouldn't happen because of the danger they'd invite on themselves).

There could be millions who don't act upon it, how would we know?

 

[Terra Branford]

(Okay...this is toward the people who think that when Pedophiles just think about sexual fantasies about children and babies, that its okay. Answer me this>)

How can thinking of having sex with a child....not be wrong? There has to be something really wrong if you are sexually attracted to a child -- a baby.

Do you know why Pedophiles go after children? Scientists say that Pedophiles, in most cases, are attracted to a child because of the dominance they have over the child. They feel uncontrollable urges to have sex, oral sex or sexually touch, the child. They often blame the child for being "too attractive" or "too sexy".
*That's right...they'll blame the child

Pedophiles are people who sexually abuse children of either, or, of both sexes.

• They are usually men who are sexually attracted to children, knowingly seek them out and perform sexual acts for their own pleasure.
• Sometimes they believe that if they are not violent or openly forceful, then they are not being abusive.
• They often believe that if the child does not resist then the child is consenting (agreeing).
• They often believe there is nothing wrong with their behavior. Some know they are breaking the law.
• They often abuse a large number of children over a lifetime.
• Some pedophiles offer rationalizations or excuses that enable them to avoid assuming responsibility for their actions. They may blame the children for being too attractive or sexually provocative. They may also maintain that they are "teaching" the child about "the facts of life" or "love"; this rationalization is frequently offered by pedophiles who have molested children related to them. All these rationalizations may be found in pornography with pedophilic themes.

This is what makes me so pissed:

They find young children appealing because of their innocence, their lack of sexual development, their lack of power and their trusting nature. Rape is never about enjoying sex.... this is about having absolute power over a powerless victim, no matter what that person views as an appealing victim. Pedophiles gravitate to the most powerless members of society as their victims.

The thing is bubblegum (i like that username ), it's not the relationship that's under debate anymore. We're discussing whether it's right or wrong to be sexually attracted to a child but without actually engaging in any relationship with any child. Which I can't say is right or wrong.

Its wrong, no matter who tries to justify it with some illogical answer. :C
They are children, they don't deserve (nor should they have to have it forced on them) to have some Pedophile forcing them to have sex, oral sex or have them touching their privates, or take pictures of them naked or watching Child porn on the internet. Its wrong and disgusting.

How can anyone here prove that pedophilias do not act on their attraction?

So far, all the Pedophiles we now of have sexually abused a child and has harmed them, and in some cases, murdered them after or before they had sex with them.

So far -- or at least I have seen it -- we haven't see any known Pedophile who hasn't sexually assaulted a child.

 

[Donald Trump]

So far -- or at least I have seen it -- we haven't see any known Pedophile who hasn't sexually assaulted a child.

Because the only way people find out about people being paedophiles is if they actually molest a child. It will never make the news, nor could it, or perhaps should it, if it's just a thought. Lack of evidence is not a lack of evidence.

Its wrong, no matter who tries to justify it with some illogical answer. :C
They are children, they don't deserve (nor should they have to have it forced on them) to have some Pedophile forcing them to have sex, oral sex or have them touching their privates, or take pictures of them naked or watching Child porn on the internet. Its wrong and disgusting.

You've missed the point. You are only talking about children being abused, which like adamant said before, we all agree isn't nice at all.

Do you know why Pedophiles go after children? Scientists say that Pedophiles, in most cases, are attracted to a child because of the dominance they have over the child. They feel uncontrollable urges to have sex, oral sex or sexually touch, the child. They often blame the child for being "too attractive" or "too sexy".
*That's right...they'll blame the child

Pedophiles are people who sexually abuse children of either, or, of both sexes.

• They are usually men who are sexually attracted to children, knowingly seek them out and perform sexual acts for their own pleasure.
• Sometimes they believe that if they are not violent or openly forceful, then they are not being abusive.
• They often believe that if the child does not resist then the child is consenting (agreeing).
• They often believe there is nothing wrong with their behavior. Some know they are breaking the law.
• They often abuse a large number of children over a lifetime.
• Some pedophiles offer rationalizations or excuses that enable them to avoid assuming responsibility for their actions. They may blame the children for being too attractive or sexually provocative. They may also maintain that they are "teaching" the child about "the facts of life" or "love"; this rationalization is frequently offered by pedophiles who have molested children related to them. All these rationalizations may be found in pornography with pedophilic themes.

I'm fairly sure this applies to all cases of rape. Replace child with man/woman and it would still be accurate.

How can thinking of having sex with a child....not be wrong? There has to be something really wrong if you are sexually attracted to a child -- a baby.

Different people are attracted to different things. Some people are attracted to inanimate objects. People are free to feel as they please.

As Mits and I were discussing on MSN, when you think of pedophilia do you truly think of 15-18 year olds or 13 and under?

The popularity of the surronding paedophilia (SVU for example) has lead to the term losing its meaning. Paedo means child, philia more or less means love. I don't think people aged 14-16 qualify as children. And if you are 16, you can fuck who ever you like as far as I'm concerned. I think perhaps Hugh Hefner sleeping with a 16 would be stretching it slightly, but if you fully understand what having sex entails, then you can consent. And if you consent, you can sleep with whoever you want to, but this is more to do with the legal age etc than paedophilia. I've digressed slightly.

My brain can't wrap around why Pedophilia would be considered right in anyone's eyes in fact.

I don't think anyone is saying that it is 'right'. Just that it isn't wrong. There's an argument that if it's not one it must be the other, but that's not one I agree with. Things aren't absolute.

As for the moral questions about pedophilia it seems that some people hold the view that pedophilia can be tolerated providing someone does not act on it. However, where is the line drawn upon actions? For example if a pedophile masturbates to child pornography he/she is essentially supporting an industry built on child exploitation. Is that right?

I don't really have a problem with paedophiles watching kiddy porn. It exists and will continue to exist. Demand does fuel supply, but I think that even if all paedophiles were shot so that there would be no market, child porn would still continue to be made.
If it does lead to paedophiles going out and raping more children then I'd be against it, but that's almost impossible to prove either way. It may decrease the likelihood for all I know.

 

[Harlequin]

Pedophiles are people who sexually abuse children of either, or, of both sexes.

No no no. You've made the classic mistake of blurring the line between a paedophile and a sexual predator.

A sexual predator is an individual who harasses someone into sexual relations with them, be it constantly sending explicit pictures to an individual and constantly haranging them to have sexual relations all the way to physically forced relations, crucially, without the consent of the victim.

A paedophile (often mistaken by default to the predator) is someone who has a mental attraction to someone who cannot legally give sexual consent to the paedophile within the laws of the land they're frequenting at the given time.

For example, just because someone is homosexual doesn't necessarily mean they'll be having sexual relations with a member of the same gender. There are many examples of men/women in marriages and being attracted their own gender.

The same goes for paedophiles. Just because they've been formed to think that way doesn't mean they'll necessarily act upon it.

 

[Tmoo]

...so this is an argument about what sexual attractions are acceptable.

Are you going to kill jews because they're jewish? Have they harmed anyone? Are you going to incarcerate pedobears because they're attracted to underdeveloped bodies? Have they harmed anyone?

The majority of children are unable to make a logical decision regarding sex and so should be prevented from such an act until they are more mature. THAT is why pedophilia is outlawed, and why age of consent exists. The attraction to them has little to do with it. You can't blame a person for their sexual preference. Acting on that preference is another matter (for instance, necrophilia. blech).

having said that, I do find the attraction odd. anime lolitas are one thing; they're sexualized in just about every fashion possible, and act accordingly. but real kids look nothing like that, IMHO they're frakkin' ugly from a sexual standpoint. They're also annoying little bastards most of the time. *grumble*

 

[Harlequin]

Are you going to kill jews because they're jewish? Have they harmed anyone? Are you going to incarcerate pedobears because they're attracted to underdeveloped bodies? Have they harmed anyone?

That's not too accurate an analogy. The argument many people throw up is that a paedophile is more likely to abuse a child than someone who isn't that way inclined and I'd have to agree with that opinion. This doesn't mean the paedophile will do so.

I don't feel it's ridiculous however to suggest that there should be social sanctions imposed on a paedophile because they're a paedophile. Not that I necessarily agree with that school of thought either.

The majority of children are unable to make a logical decision regarding sex and so should be prevented from such an act until they are more mature. THAT is why pedophilia is outlawed

That's undoubtedly the major reason but one thing we've all neglected to mention is how the act can rot the mind of the paedophile as well as the child.

If unchecked, the offender can easily strafe into other heinous acts such as murder for example. That's why many laws are set in place and why drug laws continue to be in force for example, despite the user only directly harming themselves.

 

[CHIP]

It's a thorny, complicated debate. Personally, I see nothing wrong with it as long as the person doesn't act on their feelings. I certaintly wouldn't haphazardly throw around dehumanizing words as the media frequently does, without understanding the psychology involved. No doubt many of these people are driven by impulses they can't control. I doubt they just woke up one morning and said to themselves, "hey, I know, I'm gonna be a pedo". Odd thing is, in China the legal age for consent is around 13 (if my memory serves me correctly), so whether or not you're a "pedophile" largely depends on where you geographically reside. In addition to this, some girls develop very early for their age, and men are genetically programmed to recognise certain characteristics in the opposite sex, like breasts, so if a 12 year-old girl has a pair of tits like Pamela Anderson then most men would probably double-take (of course, the chances of a 12 year-old girl having knockers like Pamela Anderson are slim-to-none, but you get the idea). The type of pedophile that fancy babies though colours me crazy. Still, above all else, these people need help - not derison and dehumanization.

 

[Rasputin]

I don't feel it's ridiculous however to suggest that there should be social sanctions imposed on a paedophile because they're a paedophile. Not that I necessarily agree with that school of thought either.

There are a higher rate of black people in prison than there are white people. I suppose you're all in favor of rounding them up and throwing them in jail as a "preemptive measure" as well? XD

That's undoubtedly the major reason but one thing we've all neglected to mention is how the act can rot the mind of the paedophile as well as the child.

If unchecked, the offender can easily strafe into other heinous acts such as murder for example. That's why many laws are set in place and why drug laws continue to be in force for example, despite the user only directly harming themselves.

Current rug restrictions are completely idiotic as well, the vast majority of civil rights workers agree on this. Bringing up that example only reinforces how completely ridiculous discriminatory sects are against pedophilia.

 

[Morrigan]

I'm answering to the first post~

No offence but people of that forum you go to seem very stupid.For reasons,because a child who is not aware of what sex is can really get shocked finding out that way,so it scars it's soul.
Another thing,so many pedophiles who are raping children out there do nothing wrong cause it's children they like,it's just a preference.But if he was sexually assaulting or raping a woman he automatically is far worse?
And another thing why some people are stupid like this,they stereotype.They have such a wrong idea of how the world functions because they spend too much time on the internet(?).Seriously,who can say such a thing that men are expected to rape?Women do it as well.They don't even seem to know what rape is,in most cases it happens for dominance,not sexual desire.Just don't take them seriously,I know it's sad that there are people out there who don't even care if innocent people get hurt.

 

[Ayumi Hamasaki]

Yes, I believe it to be wrong.

Having sexual thoughts about a child is wrong, having fantasies about a child is wrong, and acting on any of that is wrong. I won't mince my words, I consider it to be one of the worst crimes there are.

 

[Fusilli]

It seems to me that a lot of people are under the impression that paedophiles CHOOSE to be attracted to children. As if they all go out in beige trenches and hang around school gates thinking 'I'm going to touch up some kids today because I'm really evil!'. I think we would probably find that the majority of men or women who have ever had sexual thoughts about a pre-pubescent child would probably be ashamed of it and try to deny it to themselves, because it's considered so morally wrong and is such a taboo in our society. Imagine if you started to find yourself attracted to a child, you probably wouldn't be very happy about it, maybe even feel a bit sick with yourself? This doesn't make you 'wrong' though, because it's just what's happening naturally and how can that then be 'wrong'? Sure, I'm not going to lie, if a close friend admitted to me that they had such thoughts I would feel a little uncomfortable, but at the end of the day they can't help it and if anything more support should be offered to people who find themselves in these situations. And no, not so they don't act upon it, because an ordinary person isn't suddenly going to become a sexual criminal just because of some thoughts, but so they can talk about it and not have to feel judged, in the same way that there are help groups for everything else.

As for whether committing sexual acts on children is wrong, it's a completely different question really. I think we can all pretty much agree that it's morally wrong to sexually abuse ANYONE, regardless of age, gender, whatever. Sure, it seems worse with kids because they're so young and impressionable, but I think it's always a bit more sad to hear about bad things being done to children just because they're so young and innocent with their whole lives ahead of them etc etc.


And for those who are saying that people always act upon fantasy or sexual urges.... Are you kidding me?!