Question About Cloud

Alak

Alak

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The whole scene between Cloud and Sephiroth 5 years prior to the events of FF7 has been done like...3 times now? Each time, Cloud seems to be able to do something more extraordinary.

FF7: He gets impaled in the shoulder, but manages to throw Sephiroth off the catwalk into a nearby wall. Sephiroth falls into the lifestream.

Last Order: He gets impaled in the chest! Twice! He still manages to throw Sephiroth into a wall, who then proceeds to willingly jump into the lifestream.

CC: He picks up the buster sword with one hand. He does a Braver-like attack by jumping 20 feet into the air. He gets thrown through a metal wall, then stabbed in the chest. Cloud somehow lifts Sephiroth into the air, and throws him into a wall where a mini-explosion puffs out. Sephy falls into the lifestream, seemingly unconscious.


Last time I checked, Cloud never made it into SOLDIER so he didn't have any Mako in his system. Assuming that Crisis Core is the most updated retcon of the reactor scene, how in the world did he manage to do all this as a normal person? I understand that Square-Enix gave everyone some degree of superpowers ever since Advent Children was released, but no one took that kind of beating and pulled a Hulk-like maneuver in return.
 
Alak said:
Cloud never made it into SOLDIER so he didn't have any Mako in his system.
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Untrue. Cloud was experimented on alongside Zack by Hojo personally after they were discovered in the reactor at Mt. Nibel. Cloud was infused with Jenova cells with the intention of creating another Sephiroth, which is why Jenova can sometimes overpower him throughout FFVII.


I always thought Cloud grabbing Sephs sword and throwing him into the lifestream was bizarre but I suppose it takes phenomenal strength to even wield the Buster Sword so it depends on how much youre willing to suspend your belief.


The fact that Square keep tinkering with the canon would suggest, to me at least, that a remake would be a disaster. More thought, less greed.

:ffs:

EDIT: Clearly you meant before his kidnapping -__- Yeah I guess he wouldnt have been able to do it as a normal person but then again there are stories of men surviving 15-16 bullets in war on pure adrenaline. That could be an explaination...
 
Hmmm adrenaline actually might be a good answer. Cloud just lost his family, his home, possibly his best friend, and possibly the girl he loved. That would piss me off too lol. I think I will try to suspend my belief and say that it's just Final Fantasy being Final Fantasy. He owned Sephiroth so that's what really matters right? :yay:
 
Actually he was a infantrymen for shinra so he was in the military force and they had mild bits of mako infused in them but he was not at SOLDIER rank
 
The heck is wrong with you guys? FF7, all he did was run up with buster sword and thrust it into Sephiroth. Nothing too spectacular about that. Cloud looked up to the guy and then he goes and does all this crazy stuff, so of course Cloud is going to go ballistic. Anyway, Sephiroth tries to limp his way out of the reactor with Jenova's head. I'm pretty sure he's only alive because of the Jenova cells in his body. Cause, you know, the sword is pretty huge, so I'm sure Sephiroth was almost cut in half. So even someone of Clouds strength should have been able to overpower Sephiroth in his weakened state, especially with anger fueling him. As for the other stuff such as Last order, CC...etc. That's just Square trying to spruce stuff up when they should just leave it alone.
 
I say stick to what happened in the original story...ya know FINAL FANTASY VII.

The reason Cloud can do that is because he's just plain kick ass like that. Don't fuck with the Strife.
 
Hitsugaya Toushirou said:
I say stick to what happened in the original story...ya know FINAL FANTASY VII.
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I couldn't agree more.

Regarding the topic post...

We don't directly know what the reason behind Cloud's failure to make SOLDIER was. So lets look at what we do know...

- He held the Buster Sword rather effortlessly.
- He overturned his position against Sephiroth and lifted him, using the Masamune that was plunged through his chest.

- He had obvious and rather glaring self-esteem issues that caused him to doubt his capabilities and worth. His psychological fragility was a hindrance to him.

These facts, coupled with textual examples from the different scenes, suggest that Cloud's inability to make SOLDIER was never based on any physical aspects or even his fighting capabilities - that's an assumption. Instead, it would seem that it's Cloud's mental state that's always held him back; the text and story's progression supports this.

So, just because he didn't make SOLDIER doesn't mean we necessarily have reason to question his physical prowess or accomplishment, as they may not be related.

In fact, if we cite examples from other installments, we look at the way he was as an infaltryman in that mission to protect the professor. He was sharp on all accounts other than his self-doubt.
--

Also, I don't know I'd say that the installments made him look increasingly better. Instead, I think they downplayed what he did a bit. In VII, he caught Sephiroth off guard, but Sephiroth did, in fact, face him before the first strike. Secondly, when the two had their exchange on the bridge, he flung Sephiroth off and caused his fall.

Both of these accomplishments were slighted a bit, because later remakes saw Cloud stabbing an unsuspecting, back-turned Sephiroth, and it suggested that Sephiroth jumped on his own accord.
 
does anyone remember that the guy just had his hometown burnt down and his mother was killed.......thats enough to make me angry and pull a HULK routine on sephiroths arse
 
Well, keep in mind that adrenaline can do an awful lot. It's like super-buttwhoopin' juice that you can make.

Also, keep in mind that the main characters of the game are different from your average joes in the fact that they are heroes and not fighters. While there are certainly great warriors/fighters (pick anyone from the Badass of the Week website) they are still your normal people. Now, take a hero/heroine (let's say someone like Achilles or Jason) and those people are a whole new magnitude of power.

The Turks are warriors/fighters. It is a testament to how powerful they truly are in the fact that they could stand up to the Remnants in AC without being pasted across the sidewalk. They could actually hold their own in a fight with an enemy that was actually challenging for a 'hero' and not just your (very powerful) average person. Time and again I see this distinction between hero and warrior -- and it's strikingly clear that heroes/heroines take the battlefield to a whole new level. Cloud, being a hero from the get go, thus has capabilities that are almost mythic in proportions, as do the others of the main cast.


Does that make sense?
 
Yeah thats right Heros go out of there to fight for what justice and the common good where as warriors are open to influence such as money and can be influenced by there employers wishes or policies(TURKS) but true heroes see beyond the lure of financial gread and have a clear and definitive morale compass with a clear picture of wrong and right and its true heroes are often shown to have powers beyond the norm it show you use those powers that creates the people we are...Its just like my Signature says.....
 
The most important thing to remember is that this scene is supposed to be told from multiple different interpretations from multiple different perspectives. They're not exactly "ret cons," yet at the same time, they are.
 
Another thing i noticed was in final fantasy 7, cloud and zack were in a truck the whole time, never in a motor bike, but the were on crisis core, and on crisis core zack gives cloud the soldier costume in shinra mansion but on final fantasy 7 zack gives it to him while there in the truck
 
Adrenaline. That and I believe Cloud is a lot stronger than a lot of people give him credit for. I mean he did whoop Sephiroth's ass like 20 times and Zack hasn't even made it once being a SOLDIER.

I don't they ever really specify why Cloud never made it into SOLDIER whether he wasn't strong enough, or had mental issue or just problems with his peers since he always got in fights and got picked on. I doubt they would let someone with a discipline case into SOLDIER. Hell maybe he never even made high enough in ShinRa army to be considered for the position before the Nibel accident.
 
I can explain this:
FF7: He gets impaled in the shoulder, but manages to throw Sephiroth off the catwalk into a nearby wall. Sephiroth falls into the lifestream.

Last Order: He gets impaled in the chest! Twice! He still manages to throw Sephiroth into a wall, who then proceeds to willingly jump into the lifestream.

CC: He picks up the buster sword with one hand. He does a Braver-like attack by jumping 20 feet into the air. He gets thrown through a metal wall, then stabbed in the chest. Cloud somehow lifts Sephiroth into the air, and throws him into a wall where a mini-explosion puffs out. Sephy falls into the lifestream, seemingly unconscious.
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Fandom pimping.

They had to change it to get even more fans from multiple sides, despite what anyone tells me, that is what they were doing. Its kinda sad how they keep changing their story and scenes. lol
 
Like star wars huh?, they should just learn to leave things alone, of course they had no idea what monolith FFVII would become if they were to put out other FFVII media and not just other interpretations of the same event. Other games featuring other cast members like tifa or cid maybe?
 
I have to say that it is a lot like ret-conning... though really, the multiple perspectives on the same event makes sense. Especially since it is often told in a story format or flashback.
 
Lunatic: To be fair, FFVII shows us only isolated incidents of that flashback. There was a lot more to the life of Zack that we were left completely ignorant about. That's why Crisis Core was a particularly smart move, even if one didn't like the final product.
 
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