RANT : "Square Enix Milking It"

[ianmann2]

I'm just starting this thread because I'm quite simply annoyed about the number of people saying that Square-Enix are milking Final Fantasy 7.

When Square quite clearly said that Tetsuya was given the chance to expand one title to test out the technologies that were given to them.

THEY JUST WANT TO SEE WHATS AVAILABLE TO THEM.

Honestly, how hard is that to see

I'm not sure if i'm allowed to rant on this forum, but i really had quite enough :L

What does everyone else think?

xo

 

[Ewan]

Well they are milking it but I don't have a problem with it. The way I see it, Square is a business (actually they ARE a business ). And if there is interest in the FF7 franchise and if there are people who will buy the games then I have no problem with Square acting on that. I personally think it's a bit much but then again, I'm not being forced to buy the games. And neither are the people who get so worked up about it
John Cleese knew that Fawlty Towers was a special series but he didn't make more episodes. He left it as it was, didn't carried away (with the chance of ruining it) and now it's looked back upon as a legend in comedy history. Square have chosen not to do this but that's their prerogative! FF7 is still a great game no matter what happens.
But that's just my opinion

 

[hidachi4]

The problem seems to be that Square set the precedent with the FF series to be telling a new story each time. The hate seems to come from die-hard fans from other games who want to see their story expanded, which is understandable.

I mean, if people look at the Star Ocean of Breath of Fire series, or even Resident Evil or MGS they'll realize how silly they are being. When something is successful it calls for more installments, period, and FF is one of the only successful series' which has done very little expanding on its stories overall.

That said, this has really been argued to death in the remake threads. It's possible that CC was an experiment to see if they should revisit some of the old titles. Maybe after FF13 it will be a good time to do some projects on any of 5-9? I dunno, but I'd love to hear what others think.

 

[ianmann2]

hidachi4, you make very good points.

the bit about square not achieving a lot through expanding ff7 (i think thats what you meant, sorry if i misread ) i'd actually like to disagree with :/

i mean, thanks to the expansion, a wide variety of plot holes and mysteries have been solved to be honest. well for me anyway. i can understand many of the characters alot more and i've even got alot more attached to them and the world of ff7.

i definately agree that alot of others could be expanded. as there is alot more they could explain and explore with.

the fact still stands though that final fantasy 7 is one of the best games of all time, due to public opinion. if that means "milking it" then surely its a good thing and i don't think that could damage the reputation of the installment - ever.

of course, it would start to dry up if they showed signs of repetitive stories. but with the state of the story so far, they could easily make more equally astonishing games with that installment.

sorry if NONE of that made sense. i have a REALLY bad habit of not explaining myself properly (im sure there's a condition for it :L) if you don't happen to understand what i'm trying to say, just tell me

xo

 

[Serah]

Right...I was originally going to stay out of this thread, buuuuut I can't help myself. While I AM a fan of the FFVII franchise, I will say I'm becoming quite burnt out on it. I mean all this stuff they're constantly bringing out it's getting a little old. They've made Advent Children and then remade it into Advent Children Complete. Then there was Dirge of Cerberus, Before Crisis, Crisis Core and even Dirge was left wide open for another game at the end. Not to mention all the merchandise they've come out with.

From collectible figures, to those FF potion drinks in a can, to posters, to wallscrolls, novellas, etc... It's all just a little much. I'd love to see some other games get that much attention instead of just ALWAYS FFVII ALL the time. I do have love for FFVII, but I'm just completely burnt out on it because of Square's consistent milking of it. Not just the store, but all the merchandise as well.

I'd love to see them make new figures from say FFVIII or FFX, or maybe some kind of movie to show what they're doing now after the game, what's going on in Squall and Rinoa's life or Yuna and Tidus' life, etc...I'd also like to see FFV and FFVI remade and even FFVIII remade. That's just my personal opinion on it. Too much of something is not always a good thing and they're borderlining on that right now with FFVII.

 

[ianmann2]

Mandi Pandi, while i COMPLETELY respect that opinion just there :L,

think about what square has going atm, ff7 compilation, ff13 and ff14 and god knows what else. so you have to pardon them not making anything else at the moment. yeah alright i guess they could leave ff7 for the moment and do another project, but suggest they're wanting to finish with ff7 altogether, maybe they wanna do this compilation and then put a lid on it?

its just another possibility. as for the merchandise for it, that has to be for the fans surely? as its such a HUGE hit amongst the game industry and even BEYOND that surely with a fanbase that huge it has to come with a big merchandise range?

so people cant really say square are doing that for the money. i dont actually think square controls how much merchandise is put out there anyway, they just give the licensing for it? im not too sure how it works so i'll leave that there :L

another point is that you know, surely after all these chapters in the compilation of final fantasy 7 people haven't found the entire story easier to comprehend and understand.

i know in personal experience that it helps people im introducing into the franchise understand the plot. they can simply go back to the beginning and follow it through.

i've also got to understand the characters a whole lot more too.

do you know what i mean? :/

xo

 

[Serah]

Oh I know they do. I totally understand that they're busy with what's going on in regards to FFXIII and FFXIV and I respect that. I'm just saying, they could let FFVII be for a little while. Let it rest and work on a remake for FFV and FFVI. I'd LOVE to see FFVI remade as that game is quite a memorable one with excellent characters. I'm not by any means trashing on FFVII, I'd just like see other games get more attention.

 

[hidachi4]

ianmann,

I definitely didn't mean that. I though CC was very well done. Like you said, it shed some light on some of the original characters and story. Some posters pointed out some problems with it here, which I understood, but overall it was a great game and it far exceeded my expectations for a little PSP spin-off. All I was really saying is the fan reactions from CC will give them some confidence in making full-fledged remakes or sequels/prequels to some of the older titles, which will likely take a lot more work than their previous remakes of FF 1-4.

I agree with Mandi that waiting would be best. Timing is everything, and I'd personally love to see FF6 redone (my 2nd favorite FF behind 7.) The only thing holding it back is the initial demand as not as many people have played the SNES titles. All that said, I joked after finishing CC that I was eagerly awaiting the FF7 remake along with the sequel that would come at the 20 year anniversary. Looking at the DoC secret ending, I could be correct

 

[Donald Trump]

Well they are milking it but I don't have a problem with it. The way I see it, Square is a business (actually they ARE a business ). And if there is interest in the FF7 franchise and if there are people who will buy the games then I have no problem with Square acting on that.

I think there's a case to argue that creating new games would lead to bigger profits. Flogging the dead horse that is the FF7 franchise will create games that only people who liked FF7 will buy, whereas a new FF game will be of interest to the whole RPG market, excluding people who dislike FF/SE obviously.
It's a cash cow, all they have to do is fill in a couple of plot holes add some fight scenes between Sephiroth and cloud, give minor characters there own game with a generic plot and you've got money coming in without putting too much work into it.

That's all fine if they use some of that money into making FFXIII a good game. If they decide they want easy profits rather than creating a good orginal game they deserve all criticism and all praise that they get.
I think that they've certainly milked the franchise and created substandard games.

 

[ianmann2]

I think there's a case to argue that creating new games would lead to bigger profits. Flogging the dead horse that is the FF7 franchise will create games that only people who liked FF7 will buy, whereas a new FF game will be of interest to the whole RPG market, excluding people who dislike FF/SE obviously.

surely you've hit a nail on the head there?

say, for instance, that the fan base for ff7 hadn't increased or decreased a single bit since 1997 and square decided to throw out another chapter in the compilation, they would get, by calculation (bearing in mind if square-enix's SOLE purpose of making games was to just milk for money) the same amount they got the 1st time round with the original game. now take into account its been 12 years with the recent chapters being released AC, CC, DC etc., SURELY the fanbase would of increased significantly wether or not a few people have gone off it?

which would in turn of created alot more profit?

so surely IF square enix by some weird chance, were just money grabbing fools then surely this "stunt" wouldn't of been anything to moan about in theirs or the fans point of view because they are still providing to their audience - the fans of final fantasy 7.



again, im not quite sure if that made sense. so please bare with me :L

xo

 

[NeroSeraph]

Yeah they need to stop doing all these side games for final fantasy 7 and focus on the something else. In AC Cloud said something which SE should listen to "Stay where you belong, in my memories".

 

[TheRealTrxd]

The VII compilation is popular and bringing in good money, the situation is win-win. If you dont want to play them, dont. I dont know why people have to make up words like "milking" to make it sound bad.

If a company continues to make money from a very popular series then they are "milking"?

 

[Tipsynaruto]

Well.... when i see people are complaining about SE milking FF7, i feel like screaming "ignore it then. If you don't like it, just ignore it!". Seriously. These continuations are for those hard core fans who want all plot holes and the tiny details filled in. For me, i would be someone that would buy/ play/ watch anything that is a spin off of a series i like. Personally, it would be milking it, but i see no problems. I completely agree with ianmann when he says he is getting a bit sick of people complaining.

 

[Tokimadoushi]

I do agree that FF7 is being milked but the ending of FF7 was very open-ended, there was debate on the net for years until AC was made about what truly happened at the end: did all humans die, did they live, did they go to the Promised Land, did they see Aerith, did Cloud go to Aerith or Tifa, etc etc etc and so on ad infinitum...
AC, though IMO hardly a worthy sequel story-wise (the Sephiroth clones were incredibly lame) tied up a lot of loose ends concerning the fate of humankind, Aerith and Zack and showed everyone what happened after the very ambiguous ending of the game. It served its purpose. Then all the other crap came out and the rest is history...
Basically my point is most of the FF games have solid endings that tie up the story nicely and show you where each character went after the story. Except VII. A sequel was inevitable. The same happened with X, though luckily SE knew where to stop there! No more horrible sequels lol.

 

[Dionysos]

People have a right to complain though. Not everyone can enjoy these new spin-offs as much as the original and, while it would be nice if everyone could share the same opinion and if not just not play the game and stop moaning, a lot of people are angered by the spin-offs.

There really exists three types of FFVII fan. The first are those who love the original game, and also the spin-offs. The second are those who love the original game and are saddened by the spin-offs. The third are those that love the spin-offs and either haven't played the original game, or can't stand the graphics / can't stand another aspect of the game.

It's hard to tell people to shut up when they feel that the plot retcons the original, and also because it spawns a whole new batch of fans which wouldn't even dream of touching the original, and makes that remake idea even more likely.

Basically, it isn't just a new game / movie etc coming out, and someone can choose to play / see it or not. When it is in the FFVII compilation it is going to get a lot of attention, and the new stuff is going to be considered canon (which means that some FFVII trivia or facts I know from the original FFVII game will now potentially not be true anymore in the eyes of some). This is painful for the type of FFVII fan that loved the original game and not the spin-offs as they will see the magic that was FFVII crumble away. It saddens them because people think the spin-offs are cool, which would probably spawn yet more... Eventually they'll have filled plot holes alright, but the answer probably wouldn't be what the players wanted themselves while playing the original FFVII.

In a way, mystery is nice.

Besides, I don't feel like the FFVII compilation has filled in plot holes at all... Most of the FFVII compilation is pretty much recreating the Nibelheim incident... Last Order, Crisis Core, Before Crisis I learned yesterday also recreates that incident... That is pretty crazy, isn't it? They love that scene, and know that we loved it in the original... So they're putting it in a lot of their games / anime. The only plot points I felt were developed in the FFVII compilation since the original was Zack's personality, and that he was a friendly person, and perhaps Vincent's past a little bit too. However I felt the explainations given in the original game for the same events were good enough myself.

Other than that... All they have added really is "muhahhaha I return!" for Sephiroth in Advent Children.. And "We're still alive! Let us fight and stuff!" for the rest of AVALANCHE in Advent Children. Advent Children didn't really add to the plot of FFVII at all. It was essentially one of those types of sequels made purely to be a sequel... Those types see most of the plot dedicated to regurgitating the plot of the original by bringing back the villain, some of the plot is recycled, and they create a few generic characters to make the plot run.

For me it is just personal distaste. I despise the style they're going for now. I think a lot of the characters are more generic than ever, the music is terrible in comparison to the original, the magic isn't there like it was in the original game.

FFVII was a magical cow with the most enourmous pair of udders. To some people now the sight is ugly, the cow is thin, in pain, and every last drop is being squeezed out from them and shipped across the world on demand.

To some people though they genuinely do like the spin-offs (and there are parts in the spin-offs I do enjoy, I just don't like them as much as FF7 and see them as bad news to FF7). I guess in a way they are lucky because it isn't as painful for them.

I dunno... There was just a sort of magic with FFVII I can't put in words. The music, atmosphere, characters, way everything fitted together really felt like something. I didn't feel it with the spin-offs. I fear that a remake would have the feeling that the spin-offs gave me. But they'll keep doing it probably, because they are making money.

 

[Cecily]

Argor251 brought up pretty much every relevant point in this conversation (good post!), but I'll try to add what I can.

When I found out Advent Children was coming out, I was thrilled. To be honest, I didn't care about the plot, characters, anything - I just knew there would be a movie based on one of my favorite games, and I was going to watch it. When it turned out to be fan service (pretty and action-packed fan service), I didn't care. I bought a copy of the DVD, too. I still watch it sometimes.

Then I heard about Before Crisis, Crisis Core and Dirge of Cerberus. (Wasn't the other one supposed to be called Endless Crisis or something?) I was happy again, but the more I found out about these games, the less I wanted to play them. I wasn't angry, just apathetic. I knew they were supposed to expand upon the universe, but they didn't sound like they really expanded it with much substance to help us understand the original game, just with substance so that particular game would make sense. To be honest, I was pretty satisfied at the end of FF7, plot holes and all. The games sounded like game versions of Advent Children - fan service. I didn't think I wanted much more of it. The only one I regret not playing is Crisis Core, but I need a PSP first.

Sometimes I feel like FF7 was a good joke and I got the punchline the first time around, but now all of the new games are trying to explain the punchline to me. Once the joke gets explained in too much detail, it's not that funny anymore.

So, all the rants about milking? I get why people are complaining. The games might add things to the overall storyline that aren't necessary. Personally, I see why Square would crank out so many Compilation games, because people love FF7 and they're obviously making money. I would be upset if they stopped making games altogether, but they're still giving us new material, so it's fine with me.

The third are those that love the spin-offs and either haven't played the original game, or can't stand the graphics / can't stand another aspect of the game.

(As an aside, if there's anyone here who has only played the spin-offs and not the original game, do it now! You'll enjoy the other games so much more if you've played the original.)

 

[Terra Branford]

I'm just saying, they could let FFVII be for a little while. Let it rest and work on a remake for FFV and FFVI. I'd LOVE to see FFVI remade as that game is quite a memorable one with excellent characters. I'm not by any means trashing on FFVII, I'd just like see other games get more attention.

I think the FFVII stuff is finally dying down now...or, they might have something going on again >.< Most of the people who say they are milking VII don't hate it just what they have done to it. I am one of those said people.

When we say those things, we just saying "let it go SE! We now VII is a great game!" we just want to see something different.

Flogging the dead horse that is the FF7 franchise will create games that only people who liked FF7 will buy, whereas a new FF game will be of interest to the whole RPG market, excluding people who dislike FF/SE obviously.

That's what I think. SE makes VII games that only VII fans will like. If they open their area up again and start making different games, than maybe they would have larger profits.

Did you know Sony/SE is the lowest right now? Especially to WII and Xbox 360?

 

[Auronlu]

For the most part I take "milking FFVII" in the neutral sense of "taking advantage of a popular game to make more (hopefully) good games in a successful sub-franchise."

But they do need to stop recycling the Sephiroth-in-the-flames scene. It was great in FFVII. It was great to see the AC remix of it with better graphics. But when it starts showing up in DoC, and I assume in the games I haven't played because I don't have other consoles, and when I see that iconic image being used as the final and most important image/scene in the Dissidia trailer, I think, "whoa, hold on, you're recycling that great, unique moment to the point that it's starting to lose all meaning." It's shorthand to express who Sephiroth is, but in the Dissidia world, surely, it's been plucked so far out of context that it's killed most of the significance of it. I wish they'd be a little more careful with that.

I would like to see them try spinoffs of some of the other games, but I'm also leery, because FFX-2 was so much of a Curate's Egg.

 

[Cecily]

I would like to see them try spinoffs of some of the other games, but I'm also leery, because FFX-2 was so much of a Curate's Egg.

I was wondering when that would come up. I heckled it at first, but in a moment of weakness I bought it. It was kind of fun, but like you said... only parts of it were.

 

[Six]

No, actually. I took a different approach on this last night.


Square-Enix obviously isn't dumb, and they know what's appealing on the market, they also know that with their big hitter; Final Fantasy VII, there's a big fan base that will follow the FFVII series no matter how long it continues. I personally would do the same myself.

Besides, I don't feel like the FFVII compilation has filled in plot holes at all...

As Argor said, though taking it from a different approach once again, I enjoy the fact that they are finally filling up the plotholes. Of course it's nice to keep the fans 'to their own thoughts' as they seem to enjoy doing, but I also like having some clearing up info on the games revolving around FFVII.

I also thought, maybe they just really enjoy messing with FFVII, the new graphics. I mean, if I were a developer, and had the things and talent to creature how they do things now, than back in 1997, hell I'd have started on an FFVII remake sooner than I could've!

If this doesn't clear it up, no, I don't mind them filling up the plot holes, or improving on the graphics, as long as the basic story line and outfits stay the same. But I highly doubt that would get changed, seeing that is Final Fantasy VII.