Should prositution be legal?

[Sheechiibii]

• Prostitution has been condemned as a single form of human rights abuse, and an attack on the dignity and worth of human beings.

What human right does consensual sex between two adults abuse?

• The case for making it against the law to buy sex begins with the premise that it's base and exploitative and demeaning to sex workers.

This is the same as your first point. It's also a subjective opinion. What right do you have to say what is exploitative and demeaning for someone else? If they want to do it, why should you be allowed to enforce your beliefs on them?

Legalizing prostitution expands it, the argument goes, and also helps pimps, fails to protect women, and leads to more back-alley violence, not less.

How does legalisation of prostitution help pimps? It puts them out of business. How does legalisation of prostitution fail to protect women, when it means they're no longer going to be punished for a personal choice that harms nobody? How does it lead to more back-alley violence, when legalisation means there will be far less need for back-alley negotiations at all. You're going to have to back up these assertions with some evidence if you want them to hold any sort of value for your argument.

• Prostitution directly contributes to the modern-day slave trade (human trafficking) and is inherently demeaning.

This is the same point you've now made twice already. What you find to be demeaning is your own business. If you find it demeaning: don't do it. You finding it demeaning is no reason to stop other people from engaging in it. As for the slave trade. Slave trade is non-consensual. Prostitution is consensual. There's a huge difference between them, the difference between rape and sex. Should we make sex illegal because some people rape others? Or should we make sex legal, and rape illegal? Prostitution legal and human trafficking illegal? Which makes more sense?

• Legalizing or tolerating prostitution creates greater demand for human trafficking victims.

By this logic: Legalising or tolerating consensual sex creates a greater demand for rape victims. We must make consensual sex illegal so that we can prevent rape from happening. Do you not agree? Or is your logic completely hypocritical?

These are not the emotive reasons or arguments against the legalisation of prostitution and have no basis in personal views.

Oh, of course not. Talking about your standards of dignity, what you think makes someone a worthy human being, what you believe to be exploitative, what you think is demeaning, none of those assertions are emotive? None of those are based on your personal views? Please re-read what you've written and try to view it objectively and you'l find that you're completely wrong: you gave a list of points that you think are reasons why prostitution should be illegal and of those 5 points, 3 were the same emotional 'I don't like it so it should be banned' argument I've countered before, and the other two were the same point about consensual sex seemingly being a gateway to non-consensual sex. Which is nonsense.

Laws by their very nature operate on a "majority rules" system, therefore by the making and breaking of laws based on the constitution, everyone in society is living under the premise that these laws must be followed. Unless you question the very foundation of society's law and order, basically every law that is passed is "forcing" people to follow a particular set of values. Therefore, your argument that it is "entirely wrong" is a little skewed.

How is it skewed? As I've said before I believe laws should be made to protect people, not to enforce religious or moral beliefs on others. The majority of people don't like gay sex, the majority of people don't like tattoos: that's no reason to make these things illegal. To enforce your moral or ethical or religious beliefs on someone else is no better than enslaving them to your will. That is the real attack on their human rights.

 

[Harlequin]

Six

I didn't mean to offend anyone with what I said, really I wasn't making an argument for whether it should be illegal or not but rather how on Earth we can separate the literal activity of prostitution from all the undesirable elements that go with it, which is why I asked Sheechiibii to provide an example we could all poke holes in. Society has tried and failed throughout history.

Everyone is saying we should be free to do whatever we want which is great but then we're refusing to connect the dots. Not only does prostitution attract a plethora of criminal activity; it thrives on it. It's not a question of looking down on anyone, it's just a case of looking at the activity for what it is. As for whether it's a bad life decision I wouldn't know first hand, but you'd have to say the testimony of thousands of prostitutes and former prostitutes, social workers and authorities paint a picture of people who have made mistake after mistake. We provide therapy and help to those affected because we as a society have come to the agreement that in the overwhelming majority of cases prostitution isn't a blip in an otherwise well adjusted life but rather a bad mistake in a chain of bad decisions. No one's saying these women should just crawl into a hole and die.
Sheechiibii

The counter argument in this thread hasn't gone beyond some women deciding (why??) that prostitution is what's best for them and that unspecified legislation will make all the bad things go away. Sounds great, so let's hear how it's implemented.

As for the comparison with cleaning toilets, if you can think of a viable scenario in which cleaning toilets would attract gang related activity, lead to abuse of the workers and the system and other forms of criminality and drug related activity then please don't discuss it here, bring it to the attention of your local authorities.

HOWEVER

If you guys are talking about girls doing a bit of "escorting", getting propositioned and having sex with a well monied stranger then there's no need for a discussion that stuff is all legal! Or at least impossible to regulate.

Brothels on the other hand? Don't be naive.

 

[Six]

Don't worry about my post, @Harlequin. Really no hard feelings, but after thinking about it, this is not a topic I want to mesh myself in. Some people are way too stubborn in my opinion, and nothing will be gained out of a debate thread with that.

Requested my above post to be deleted! Carry on!

 

[Sheechiibii]

Not only does prostitution attract a plethora of criminal activity; it thrives on it.

Prostitution itself is a crime, of course it's going to be immersed with other types of crime and black market dealings. If it were legal it would no longer hold that attaction for criminal activity, because it would be regulated, taxed, and anyone employed in the business would be more than capable of getting legal help should they need it.

It's not a question of looking down on anyone, it's just a case of looking at the activity for what it is.

And what is it? It's a consensual agreement between two people to engage in sexual activity and payment. The question is: what is wrong with that?

The counter argument in this thread hasn't gone beyond some women deciding (why??) that prostitution is what's best for them and that unspecified legislation will make all the bad things go away. Sounds great, so let's hear how it's implemented.

It would be treated the same way any other business is treated. Take a massage parlour for example, or a strip club. People go there, choose their service, pay their money and get what they pay for. There are regulations, if a customer is out of line there is a chain of command and there is protection for the employees.

As for the comparison with cleaning toilets, if you can think of a viable scenario in which cleaning toilets would attract gang related activity, lead to abuse of the workers and the system and other forms of criminality and drug related activity then please don't discuss it here, bring it to the attention of your local authorities.

If it were illegal it would attract all those things, the same way prostitution does while it is illegal.

@Six I know you have since taken down your previous post but I wanted to say I saw it and I agreed with you and felt I should let you know I think you are spot on when it comes to porn: it's no different to prostitution and yet it's legal, it's a business and it's taxed and treated like any other business. It's a job. Why is it legal and prostitution is not? Why is it okay for people to say they like doing porn, but when it comes to prostitution it's beyond the realms of possibility that some people wouldn't hate the job?

 

[Harlequin]

You haven't answered anything, you've just said exactly what you've said before. Theory theory theory.

Q: How would this unspecified legislation work?
A: Unspecified legislation.

You can't flesh anything out because it's easily shot to pieces. Your argument only works in theory.

Will these would be prostitutes be psychologically profiled to determine sound judgement or lack of third party coercion?
How many will pass a drugs test?
Will would be prostitutes who have failed these tests (all but a handful of the entire demographic) resort to unregulated prostitution anyway?
How will this legislation possibly prevent criminal activity?
How will pimps and hookers be put out of business?
By the same premise, why should women who want to do it have to submit themselves for regulation?
What are the potential dangers of women prostituting themselves under no regulation?

Amazingly the answers to these questions haven't manifested themselves in any of your posts. Cash in hand, on the fly prostitution is common and impossible to regulate.

Last post I'm out.

 

[Sheechiibii]

You haven't answered anything, you've just said exactly what you've said before. Theory theory theory.

Q: How would this unspecified legislation work?
A: Unspecified legislation.

You can't flesh anything out because it's easily shot to pieces. Your argument only works in theory.

Except it doesn't, it only works in theory if you ignore the fact that every other job works the exact same way and there's no theory about it. You have to ignore the fact that prostitution, if it were legal, would be no different to any other job. You're trying to say that because I'm not someone who can legislate and spell out an exact business plan, that this means I don't have an argument. That's nothing but a straw man fallacy on your part.

I wouldn't know how to open up a massage parlour, or start a porn business, or work out the logistics of a strip club either. According to your logic, me not being able to do so means that none of those things should be legal.

Will these would be prostitutes be psychologically profiled to determine sound judgement or lack of third party coercion?

Are porn stars required to be psychologically profiled before they can be employed?

How many will pass a drugs test?

How many porn actors pass drugs tests?

Will would be prostitutes who have failed these tests (all but a handful of the entire demographic) resort to unregulated prostitution anyway?

Do porn actors engage in unregulated porn if they don't get employed by a company?

How will this legislation possibly prevent criminal activity?

If prostitution is not illegal, then none of it is a crime: therefore that's immediately preventing criminal activity for a start. Secondly if someone is a registered employee the company they work for is responsible for them in various ways. If they are harmed by a customer they are entitled to protection.

How will pimps and hookers be put out of business?

If prostitutes are employed by legitimate businesses, then they won't be working for pimps will they?

By the same premise, why should women who want to do it have to submit themselves for regulation?

Because that's how businesses work. That's what getting a job means. If they want to work 'freelance' that's fine too, but it means they won't be afforded the benefits that come from being employed.

What are the potential dangers of women prostituting themselves under no regulation?

What are the potential dangers of people staring in unregulated porn?

Amazingly the answers to these questions haven't manifested themselves in any of your posts. Cash in hand, on the fly prostitution is common and impossible to regulate.

Amazingly, none of your questions have any affect on the question of why prostitution should be illegal, considering they could be asked of numerous other employment options that are legal.

 

[Galadín]

A reminder to anyone wishing to contribute to this debate thread, that comments should remain non-personal and arguments should try to be supported with facts.

Thank you.

 

[Miasma Dragon]

Unless you believe in a higher being, you undoubtedly accept that only the Individual can own his or her self. Even with the idea of believing in a higher being, one should realize that by right of freewill we own ourselves. Since I own my body, it is explicitly my right to sell my labor with the value I see fit. No man can debar me from that without resorting to using violence against me.

Prostitution is one thing and one thing only, the selling of one's service. Prostitution only became part of human trafficking due to government itself making enemy out of individuals with a consensual service (just like with drugs). Even as a theist, I'd even go so far as to call prostitution as one of the noblest industries since it profits from the most sought-after service in human history through a voluntary effort.

Slavery is neither selling one's self for labor nor treating people as property, it is a non-consensual act (no different from robbery); slavery is forcing one to labor for another.

 

[sanban7]

prostitution is nothing but form of slavery, selling of human for abuse and unhealthy deeds, it is unable to coexist with democratic society, it was no wonder in russian empire it was legal

 

[sanban7]

Except it doesn't, it only works in theory if you ignore the fact that every other job works the exact same way and there's no theory about it. You have to ignore the fact that prostitution, if it were legal, would be no different to any other job. You're trying to say that because I'm not someone who can legislate and spell out an exact business plan, that this means I don't have an argument. That's nothing but a straw man fallacy on your part.

I wouldn't know how to open up a massage parlour, or start a porn business, or work out the logistics of a strip club either. According to your logic, me not being able to do so means that none of those things should be legal.



Are porn stars required to be psychologically profiled before they can be employed?



How many porn actors pass drugs tests?



Do porn actors engage in unregulated porn if they don't get employed by a company?



If prostitution is not illegal, then none of it is a crime: therefore that's immediately preventing criminal activity for a start. Secondly if someone is a registered employee the company they work for is responsible for them in various ways. If they are harmed by a customer they are entitled to protection.



If prostitutes are employed by legitimate businesses, then they won't be working for pimps will they?



Because that's how businesses work. That's what getting a job means. If they want to work 'freelance' that's fine too, but it means they won't be afforded the benefits that come from being employed.



What are the potential dangers of people staring in unregulated porn?



Amazingly, none of your questions have any affect on the question of why prostitution should be illegal, considering they could be asked of numerous other employment options that are legal.

you said prostitution is no different from other job - well, then do you often heard about janitor of slesar when came to work - customer has right to beat him, urinate on him and do other unspokable things?not to mention that most of pristitutes want to return to normal life but just unable to