Sphere Grid (Original) Labeled

[Sheechiibii]

It's linear in all manner of respects to usefulness.
There is nothing remarkable about choice if it's between chocolate or crap.

Acting as if X i some extraordinary display of choice and basically the best thing since sliced bread is laughable.
And annoying. But mostly just laughable.

In fact, I doubt I could say any bad thing about FFX without someone going about the game like it's some holy artifact that fell from the sky one day. On the same note, I probably couldn't say anything good about XIII without someone treating it like it rose out from Hell.

It doesn't really make your opinions too credible.

Actually allowing you control over every aspect of how you develop your characters is not something I see as useless at all, and in games it's especially useful because it means you can play the same game totally different ways each and every time you replay it. The fact that you can put Yuna down a different path like Auron's is one of the reasons I love the sphere grid system so much, because it allows experimentation and gives the player the ability to play the freaking game however they want to. You might assume something would be crap, but you won't know till you try it.

The sphere grid is the best levelling system I have ever played in any game, mostly because it does give you a massive amount of choice. You thinking it's linear just shows you don't even know the meaning of the word.

Trying to say something is linear, when it is completely the opposite by any definition shows how credible your opinions are on this subject.

 

[Cardinal Copia]

I am still simply confused as to how anybody can call the SG linear. Again, the love for the SG has NOTHING to do with it not being from 13 Get off of that idea already.
The fact is, the SG offers tons more choices and options for the player to travel when upgrading their character. Every character can learn every single ability and get every single stat point available to upgrade. You can do more than just hold X to go in a straight line. This is far from linear. You want linear? Look at the Crystarium.

 

[Ultimaja]

I'm sorry that you think having a million useless choices is so much better.
The arguments are just simply weak sauce.

One of my pet peeves about FFX since I first played it a decade ago is the fact of it's strong feeling of linearity, and a decade later I'm hearing people actually trying to say it's the exact opposite and that the sphere grid is some gift from God.

Nobody was saying this shit at all when it came out, you all just have a sentimentality for the game that simply goes straight to your head.

 

[Cardinal Copia]

If it were actually linear, like you say, it WOULDNT offer you them "useless" choices. That the whole point me and Sheech are getting at. The SG isnt linear. At all. Thank you for proving our point.

 

[Ultimaja]

If it were actually linear, like you say, it WOULDNT offer you them "useless" choices. That the whole point me and Sheech are getting at. The SG isnt linear. At all. Thank you for proving our point.

The point I'm making is that, if you do the sphere grid as far as usefulness, it is linear.
Which means that it is basically linear.

And thank you for proving my other point- the arguments are weak.

Arguing semantics doesn't make the sphere grid better.

 

[Sheechiibii]

I'm sorry that you think having a million useless choices is so much better.
The arguments are just simply weak sauce.

One of my pet peeves about FFX since I first played it a decade ago is the fact of it's strong feeling of linearity, and a decade later I'm hearing people actually trying to say it's the exact opposite and that the sphere grid is some gift from God.

Nobody was saying this shit at all when it came out, you all just have a sentimentality for the game that simply goes straight to your head.

The choices are not useless. Give me an example of how being able to do anything you want with any of the characters is useless. If you like using mages, you can have a full party of mages. How is that not useful if it's the type of style you like to play with? Making Yuna go down the samurai path (Auron's original path) is one of the most useful ways to use the Sphere Grid, even though it's the exact opposite of what she'd traditionally be doing.

The argument is certainly weak, but it's your side of the argument that is weak, not ours. You are trying to argue that the Sphere Grid is linear and using...nothing as a reason. Arguments don't really get much weaker than that...

Linear means to move in a straight line. The sphere grid is not a straight line in any way shape or form. It's not laid out like a straight path, it isn't a straight path, you have choices left right and centre. It's the exact opposite of what linear means. I've said this since the second time I played it and started experimenting with the many different ways it can be used. The thing is, it's never really come up in conversation, because nobody else has ever tried to call it linear. Probably because they know what linearity is...

 

[Ultimaja]

The choices are not useless. Give me an example of how being able to do anything you want with any of the characters is useless. If you like using mages, you can have a full party of mages. How is that not useful if it's the type of style you like to play with? Making Yuna go down Auron's path is one of the most useful ways to use the Sphere Grid, even though it's the exact opposite of what she'd traditionally be doing.

The characters are better in their inherent class, make Tidus a mage and see how he pairs up with Lulu.
And being able to switch out characters mid-battle makes sharing traits redundant.

There is simply nothing grand about the 'choices' of the sphere grid. It's just an over-complication of what XIII's crystarium simplifies.

The argument is certainly weak, but it's your side of the argument that is weak, not mine. You are trying to argue that the Sphere Grid is linear and using...nothing as a reason. Arguments don't really get much weaker than that...

No, you all are just being stupid about it, which is apparently the gambit to anything that tries to say FFX is the least bit overrated or that XIII the least bit underrated.
Which they are.

 

[Captain Squee]

"You're being stupid" is not a valid argument. There were loads of nonlinear options that made sense. Yes, Lulu was a better mage than anyone else, but you could give any characters you wanted status effects, both positive and negative. That meant that you weren't limited to wait so many turns before protecting your team. You could take different routes to make up for each characters shortcomings or take a route to enhance a characters strong suit. Sure, a lot of the skills are useless, but you had to get through them to get the good stuff. If you went purely with "what's next" then it bore the illusion of being linear, but when you looked at the big picture, it was just that you had to whack down a lot of shrubs to get to the trees, and each character handled them differently.

 

[Sheechiibii]

The characters are better in their inherent class, make Tidus a mage and see how he pairs up with Lulu.
And being able to switch out characters mid-battle makes sharing traits redundant.

There is simply nothing grand about the 'choices' of the sphere grid. It's just an over-complication of what XIII's crystarium simplifies.

No, you all are just being stupid about it, which is apparently the gambit to anything that tries to say FFX is the least bit overrated or that XIII the least bit underrated.
Which they are.

Haha you've never actually tried have you? As I said, experimenting can produce unexpected results. If you make Tidus a thief early in game you can steal items far earlier than you normally would be able to and his high speed makes him very suited for the role. That's not useless. If you take Yuna down the Samurai path she can be more useful than in any other part of the grid including her own.

Being able to swap out characters doesn't mean that having two characters in the same role is redundant, they still only get one turn once they're on the battlefield.

You didn't say X was overrated. You said the Sphere Grid was linear, which is just 100% untrue.

 

[Ultimaja]

Haha you've never actually tried have you? As I said, experimenting can produce unexpected results. If you make Tidus a thief early in game you can steal items far earlier than you normally would be able to and his high speed makes him very suited for the role. That's not useless. If you take Yuna down the Samurai path she can be more useful than in any other part of the grid including her own.

Steal, and having Yuna learn some of Auron's skills.

Anything else?

?
There is nothing else.


There is little more practical freedom in the sphere grid then the crystarium. It's all bang and no bullet.

 

[Sheechiibii]

Steal, and having Yuna learn some of Auron's skills.

Anything else?

?
There is nothing else.

No, I'm not talking about just the one command, I'm talking about taking them through an entirely different role. Something you have the choice to do.

Making Kimarhi a mage? Or giving Lulu white mage skills. You can literally take any character down any path. Any way you want. There is an entire sphere grid and you can do whatever you want in it. So yeah, everything else is possible. If you can imagine it, then you can do it in the sphere grid.

So once again: not linear in any way.

 

[greenyxi]

You can make any character a red mage with immense strength to boot. As completely useless as that is, I'm probably the freak that thinks that having everyone be able to heal is amazing. Then there's being able to have a speedy knight (where they're known for being slow). How about a blue mage who can steal as well, just in case magic isn't the best thing to use against a boss?

The characters each still keep their individuality through the overdrives regardless, so there's that theory out.

P.S. The sphere grid in the 2nd pic (the highlighted one) is really prettiful. I applaud you for making something and posting something that I don't think has been around the forum before

 

[Ultimaja]

Something being non-linear would be FFXII's character build. All FFX amounts to is a false sense of non-linearity which is really just the continuous trivializing of roles until they are all maxed out.
Which comes late game, just like XIII.

If the sphere grid was so much better then XIII's crystarium, I would say so. But I don't, because I'm not a hopeless fan boy of FFX, which I no doubt suspect was probably many fan's first Final Fantasy to be perfectly honest.
That's th eonly way I can really see someone be so fixed on such an overrated game; no doubt the cause of it's overrating.

 

[Jdeadevil]

Ultimaja, come on. You're now calling people hopeless fan-boys in a thread that was initially celebrating the Sphere Grid.

 

[Ultimaja]

Ultimaja, come on. You're now calling people hopeless fan-boys in a thread that was initially celebrating the Sphere Grid.

It wouldn't matter what thread I post it on.
Let's just change the site to Final Fantasy X Forums, or Anti-Final Fantasy XIII Forums.

Seriously, what the going rate on anything negative being said about one or anything positive of the other?
The fact that every single post against me on this thread being 'liked' by others is just a tell tale sign. Hopeless fan-boys. I may as well be burning a Bible in front of the Vatican.

 

[Jdeadevil]

It wouldn't matter what thread I post it on.
Let's just change the site to Final Fantasy X Forums, or Anti-Final Fantasy XIII Forums.

Seriously, what the going rate on anything negative being said about one or anything positive of the other?
The fact that every single post against me on this thread being 'liked' by others is just a tell tale sign. Hopeless fan-boys. I may as well be burning a Bible in front of the Vatican.

Yeah, because your arguments are just plain wrong and striking a debate about the Crystarium was unnecessary in the first place. Let me explain it this way: the difference between this pizza and your opinion, is that we asked for this pizza.

 

[Ultimaja]

Yeah, because your arguments are just plain wrong and striking a debate about the Crystarium was unnecessary in the first place. Let me explain it this way: the difference between this pizza and your opinion, is that we asked for this pizza.

'What we asked for'.
Case in point. Maybe I'll prestige to your exemplary level by making a shrine with FFX in the middle and worshiping it

And my arguments are not wrong, they are right on point and obvious- and are suspiciously being told to be completely the opposite. I know hopeless fanboy-ism when I see it. Nice try though.

 

[Jdeadevil]

'What we asked for'.

Case in point. Maybe I'll prestige to your exemplary level by making a shrine with FFX in the middle and worshiping it

That's the second time in this thread that you've missed the point of what people are saying when quoting them. Nobody asked for a debate about something that's off-topic here. Someone just showed us the gorgeous Sphere Grid (in the Final Fantasy X forum) and you instantly attacked it with your passive aggressive sarcasm that we don't happen to like Final Fantasy XIII. You're still attacking people, right now with that sarcasm on the second line.

 

[Ultimaja]

That's the second time in this thread that you've missed the point of what people are saying when quoting them. Nobody asked for a debate about something that's off-topic here. Someone just showed us the gorgeous Sphere Grid (in the Final Fantasy X forum) and you instantly attacked it with your passive aggressive sarcasm that we don't happen to like Final Fantasy XIII. You're still attacking people, right now with that sarcasm on the second line.

Oh yeah, you're such a victim.
I'm sure one can mosey on over to the FFXIII section and find those like yourself doing the exact same thing.

And

the ol' 'off-topic' card is always a good one to play when you don't get your way.

 

[Sheechiibii]

Something being non-linear would be FFXII's character build. All FFX amounts to is a false sense of non-linearity which is really just the continuous trivializing of roles until they are all maxed out.
Which comes late game, just like XIII.

If the sphere grid was so much better then XIII's crystarium, I would say so. But I don't, because I'm not a hopeless fan boy of FFX, which I no doubt suspect was probably many fan's first Final Fantasy to be perfectly honest.
That's th eonly way I can really see someone be so fixed on such an overrated game; no doubt the cause of it's overrating.

*sigh* FFXII's levelling system and FFX's levelling system are very similar you know. Both are very non-linear, both you can choose what roles to give each characters, what abilities to teach them etc and there are many, many ways a person can choose to go about building their characters. Also, while building up your characters you are never forced to max out all their stats, if you want a mage to stay weak in the strength department and vice versa you are more than able to do it. You are also never force to teach a black mage white magic if you don't want to. It's entirely up to the player. That is the opposite of linear.

What makes you say we are 'hopeless fan-boys' when it comes to X? This is one single aspect of the game we are discussing, the sphere grid, and we are only discussing with one aspect of it - whether it is linear or not. Which is frankly a non-issue to begin with because by the very definition of the word the sphere grid is the complete opposite and anyone who knows what linear means knows that.

Give us one example of how the sphere grid is linear (which means the only progression available is a straight path).