Square and Enix didn't destroy Final Fantasy or eachother

Shaissa

Shaissa

Dark Knight
Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
2,930
Gil
1
Mog's Tent
So some people seem to think that When Square and Enix joined forces it was the downfall of Final Fantasy, I highly have to disagree.

Not only was it not the downfall of Final Fantasy but it wasn't the downfall of anything they made.

Since Square and Enix Joined forces we had (as far as final fantasy is concern)

Final Fantasy XI
Final Fantasy XII
Final Fantasy XIII
Final Fantasy XIV
Final Fantasy XIII-2
Final Fantasy VII Crisis Core
Final Fantasy VII Dirges of Cerberus
Final Fantasy VII Advent Children
Dissidia
Dissidia: 012
Theatrhythm
Kingdom Hearts II
Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories
Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep
Kingdom Hearts DDD.

Now am I saying I liked all these games? No.
But minus the numbers of XIV (which they are remaking basically) You can't argue that these games have sold very well for whatever console they were one.

Now as far as I have read a good majority of us don't like the Final Fantasy XI cause It is MMO and online, but can we blame Square-Enix for wanting to get into that market with how well games like Guild Wars and World of Warcraft were doing in it? I can't, I would wanna try to get a slice out of that money too.

We have seen Final Fantasy branch off into Fighting games (dissidia) and a musical (Theatrhythm.) Now I am not a fan of a musical game, but people that have played it have said they have enjoyed it. Dissidia was a success overall from what People have said and how well it has sold.

We have the evolution of the Kingdom Hearts series (minus the first one) and the series has sold over 51 million copies with 4 of the 5 under Square Enix rule.

We had... going to say it... Final Fantasy XIII and XIII-2 with XIII selling 9.6 million copies and XIII-2 selling 2.5 million copies.
Now I know most people on this site don't like XIII series, but the numbers count for something.

We had the top selling game of all Final Fantasy's (Final Fantasy VII) Have a sequel, a prequel a movie made for it, and all have been considered a success.

Now the only game that has been a failure is Final Fantasy XIV, which Square Enix has fired the whole staff for, hired a new staff, let the game be played for free all this time, are remaking the game, and haven't given up on it.


Now I know I didn't list any phone games or remakes, mainly because there are so many remakes and the phone games I can't remember the names to. For the phone games I will say this, they are a booming industry and again who can blame a video game company for trying to get where video gamer's are playing games now? Which is on there phones, ipads...whatever else they have.




Now I am not making this to say "You guys should like every Final Fantasy Game Square Enix has made" cause heck I didn't like every Final Fantasy game Square Soft made firstly, secondly everyone has there opinion's about which games are good and which games are bad.

I am not making this thread to start a Final Fantasy XIII debate.

I am making this thread mainly to say that Square Enix really has done well and smart as far as Final Fantasy series is concern right now.
 
I dont know man I kinda have to agree what you are trying to say Shace, however bro SE released some fiscal reports some time ago and they had major losses. You know what really saved their asses?

Eidos montreal and western properties. Deus ex machina etc. so yeah that's what I think lol.
 
Ohri-Jin said:
I dont know man I kinda have to agree what you are trying to say Shace, however bro SE released some fiscal reports some time ago and they had major losses. You know what really saved their asses?

Eidos montreal and western properties. Deus ex machina etc. so yeah that's what I think lol.
Click to expand...

But when they were reporting those loses, firstly XIV was released, (which I explained up there how they really have been trying to get that to work) and secondly, lots of gaming companies have reported losses in the last 4-5 years.

I am just showing how Final Fantasy really isn't that dead or bad, which people think it is cause of the Square-enix merger
 
I don't think the sales for FFXIII count to say that it's a well liked game. I couldn't know I'd hate it untill I'd already paid for it and played it. I bought it because it was a FF and I loved all the previous games. The sales for XIII-2 I think reflect more about how many people cared to see more of that game.

For the most part I agree with you though. I don't think FF is going down hill at all, some games are better than others sure but everyone has their opinion on games. When FFVIII came out it was hugely criticesed and hated on but that didn't spell the end of the FF franchise or mean that it was going downhill.
 
I dont agree. When it comes to spin off, its no comparison to the main series. even if square didnt merge with enix, the spin offs such as crisis core, theatrythm, dissidia etc. Dont measure up to the standard of the main series. Can we compare theatrythm to ff10?

I dont see how kingdom hearts is relevant. Because the series may have started strong but slowly become shallow and so has final fantasy recently and more quickly.

Xiii-2 selling 2.5 mil is nothing if its worldwide. The only reason why ff14 is considered a failure is hecaise SE said so.

Right now they know they lost their fanbase around 13 but if they admit to the very thing they need to keep fans coming back, then they will lose even more. Plus their ego on 13 has boosted .they are pushing 13 as a success because they cant turn back to fix it unlike ff14 in which can easily take the blame for the feanchise and get away with it.

Why not consider a ff7 remake atm? Because fans will realize how bad the series has gone. They will see what the recent games dont have.

Also remakes shouldnt be considered. Because final fantasy remakes of squaresoft days is like saying se accomplished what they did before the merge. I personally dont blame enix. However i blame the direction they took after 11.
 
Last edited:
If you look at the video game industry as a hole, 2.5 million copies world wide is pretty damn good for most games now days, if you blame the sales on Square-enix then you have to look at the whole picture of the average game that sells now day. CoD usually is the number one seller each year since Cod...4 I wanna say. Very few RPGs get to see this many games sold.

I didn't consider Remakes for the reason that they were made before enix.

XIV is consider a faliure cause it didn't sell 1 million copies yet.

Believe it or not, XIII still has a very strong fan base and I don't know of one sequel in the final fantasy series that has sold than the original (which is very common in movies and other video games) , if you know of one let me know, and I am not turning this into a bash FF XIII at the moment and I wanna try to keep it out of it...

Kingdom hearts is relevant cause it has to do with Final Fantasy, with characters and creation.

As for as trying to compare Theatrythm to FFX, you can't.

They are trying to get a bigger fanbase out there cause the older generation is growing up and we have less time for video games, on top of that selling over 1million copies of a game even world wide in this day and age has been very hard on many companies.

I still say that Square-enix merger hasn't destroyed or ruined the Final Fantasy series.
 
XIII sold that much because of the 6 years of Hype that received, it was the next gen FF game and it was multiplataform, if you see how much XIII-2 sold it tells you that if people knew how XIII would have been it wouldnt had sold that much.

SE tittles (Development in house) are pretty forgettable for most of the time, it has been a LOOOOOONG time since i have been bumped by any SE tittle, now only ATLUS makes me happy.
 
I would be surprised if people thought a merging of two developers made an negative impact of these games, that's silly :wacky:. It's like when Namco & Koei collaborated and they thought that would turn into a disaster but again. Merging has nothing to do with the games you think are bad, it's YOU who think that.

@Ohri-Jin - Definetely agree with you on Deus Ex lol. Same with Dead Island and hopefully the new Hitman game too. But still Final Fantasy series is a very selective fanbase in my opinion, but with a great reputation internationally.
 
The only problem or issue I have with SquareEnix is how they make projects and new ideas and then they don't deliever. I mean where's new infomation or details on Final Fantasy X HD ? Versus ? Should of came out at least 2010, not 2013 if that. Type 0 English translation ? Nowhere in sight.

Instead they make new projects and then the projects that they promised before-hand get futher and futher and futher behind.

Final Fantasy XII and Final Fantasy XIII are either games that you love or loathe. Final Fantasy XIV has been improved and fixed and Final Fantasy X-2 was made by SquareSoft, not SquareEnix.

SquareEnix have made some excellent games; though they only seem to be the DS or 3DS and some on the PSP. Alot of fans believe that SE hasn't made a good Final Fantasy recently, but if Dissidia was made on the PS3 then thoughts would be different.

However my main issue with SquareEnix is how they ignore certain Final Fantasy games and only focus on Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy XIII.What a Final Fantasy 8-2 ? Too Bad ! It doesn't include Cloud Strife or Lightning Farron so we are not intersted.

Also they seem to be really greedy latley and doing things to piss off certain fanbases. The TWEWY just got massively trolled recently. They should stop with the IOS stuff and just focus on things that the fans actually care about.
 
Well alright.

Shuce said:
Final Fantasy XI
Final Fantasy XII
Final Fantasy XIII
Final Fantasy XIV
Final Fantasy XIII-2
Final Fantasy VII Crisis Core
Final Fantasy VII Dirges of Cerberus
Final Fantasy VII Advent Children
Dissidia
Dissidia: 012
Theatrhythm
Click to expand...

Final Fantasy XI is widely recieved as an MMO, "therefore being shit" by many console gamers. I also didn't hear very nice things about Final Fantasy XIV.

Final Fantasy XII was good.

Final Fantasy XIII and everything related to it is terrible. I want to strangle Liam O'Brien every time I hear his voice in a game, because Caius was such a stupid character.

Crisis Core was only a decent game worth playing for people who actually played Final Fantasy VII and liked it. Outside of that, it was an incredibly mediocre game. But then again, I am talking about the PSP whose best titles mainly consist of PSX ports.

Dirge of Cerberus and Advent Children were fanservice and gave birth to some of the biggest shitstorms surrounding the lore of it's universe. Not to mention, like Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus was also very mediocre. It was probably worse.

Some people liked Dissidia, I didn't. Fighting games aren't really my thing and I would get really frustrated with dodge trolling and understanding exactly what the hell accessories did. I can't really knock them and have the feeling that for some people, it was probably one of their better releases in this generation.

I do not even know what Theatrhythm is, and I'm just going to assume it's Guitar Hero Final Fantasy.

Kingdom Hearts is not Final Fantasy.

But quality over quantity, every time.
CPancer said:
I would be surprised if people thought a merging of two developers made an negative impact of these games, that's silly :wacky:.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone specifically blames the merger. But the people who made the games great jumped ship after it and their shoes got filled by someone else who just can't hack it.

Years ago they said they wouldn't remake FF7 without the storyboard director of the original game, now they are saying they won't remake it until they manage to regurgitate something just as good, to which I have nothing to say but "good luck".
 
Shuce said:
If you look at the video game industry as a hole, 2.5 million copies world wide is pretty damn good for most games now days, if you blame the sales on Square-enix then you have to look at the whole picture of the average game that sells now day. CoD usually is the number one seller each year since Cod...4 I wanna say. Very few RPGs get to see this many games sold.

I didn't consider Remakes for the reason that they were made before enix.

XIV is consider a faliure cause it didn't sell 1 million copies yet.

Believe it or not, XIII still has a very strong fan base and I don't know of one sequel in the final fantasy series that has sold than the original (which is very common in movies and other video games) , if you know of one let me know, and I am not turning this into a bash FF XIII at the moment and I wanna try to keep it out of it...

Kingdom hearts is relevant cause it has to do with Final Fantasy, with characters and creation.

As for as trying to compare Theatrythm to FFX, you can't.

They are trying to get a bigger fanbase out there cause the older generation is growing up and we have less time for video games, on top of that selling over 1million copies of a game even world wide in this day and age has been very hard on many companies.

I still say that Square-enix merger hasn't destroyed or ruined the Final Fantasy series.
Click to expand...

It really isnta big achievement. When you look at 13-2 sales alone you can see it wasnt for the game itswlf. And it has a small underdog stronge fanbase. However the fanbase itself levels with it. Basically lowering their standards and they KNOW the flaws of there and they know when argument comes up the fans never give it a strong defense.

Have tou ever played kingdom hearts? Its not relevant.

You dont know what you are talking about ff14 period. If sales means quality to you. Then enjoy band wagon.
 
Yet you act like XIII is the worst thing to happen to Final Fantasy

And Kingdom hearts has final fantasy themes and characters, so it is relevant.

Look sales are not everything, but they do mean something in the business,

Final Fantasy XIII has a good fan base, not on this site, but overall, has a good fan base, and if you don't think so, then I am sorry.
 
Shuce said:
Look sales are not everything, but they do mean something in the business,

Final Fantasy XIII has a good fan base, not on this site, but overall, has a good fan base, and if you don't think so, then I am sorry.
Click to expand...

Nobody knew how bad or good the game would be until they'd already bought it. Sales matter but the sales for the sequal show how many people didn't like XIII.

XIII sold 7.5 million which is a huge amount but who liked it enough to buy a sequel? Only 2.5 million. A massive drop. Compare that to X which in 2004 had sold 6 million and X-2 sold 4 million, showing that more than half of the people who played X wanted to play X-2 despite its girly look and bad reception. If XIII has such a large fanbase why did so many people forgo the sequel when it had a good reception in general from critics?
 
Sheechiibii said:
Nobody knew how bad or good the game would be until they'd already bought it. Sales matter but the sales for the sequal show how many people didn't like XIII.

XIII sold 7.5 million which is a huge amount but who liked it enough to buy a sequel? Only 2.5 million. A massive drop. Compare that to X which in 2004 had sold 6 million and X-2 sold 4 million, showing that more than half of the people who played X wanted to play X-2 despite its girly look and bad reception. If XIII has such a large fanbase why did so many people forgo the sequel when it had a good reception in general from critics?
Click to expand...

^ Hmm this, well said.

Final Fantasy XIII-2 showed how many people were disapointed with Final Fantasy XIII which is alot. It may have a fanbase; but so does every Final Fantasy. And most of Final Fantasy XIII fans are the newest gen and they're new to the Final Fantasy series and they don't know much better; because they haven't touched Final Fantasies like VI, IV, IX, X and VII yet. :hmmm:

On Tumblr I've only seen the Final Fantasy XIII fans post Final Fantasy XIII pictures, and pretend that anything made before it doesn't exist. Final Fantasy X and Final Fantasy Advent Children sometimes gets a reblog. But anything made before FFXIII they usually don't care about. Which makes me assume that they're only played FF XIII and watched AC and *assume * about the other Final Fantasy titles. :hmmm:

I'm waiting for 1st Sept for so called " Final Fantasy XIII-3 " to be a Lightning based novel, IOS game, or a cellphone download saga. Then to have a huge fan-out rage from them and " I hate SE ' posts and for them to friggen buy it anyways; like the TWEWNY fandom did. :ffs:
 
Ok guys I get it, you don't like XIII, I'm not trying to turn this into a bash XIII thread, I was trying to make the point that Really Final Fantasy isn't that bad as people claim it was, there have been great games even after it became Square Enix.

As far as XIII appealing to the "newer fans" thats good, cause they need newer fans to compete in this market that is filled with live action... FPS, action RPG's, etc...
 
I still don't understand peoples dislike towards XII. Despite dragging at times and perhaps having a slightly lacking story (can't win them all) it was a pretty solid game IMO. Infact fuck FF X HD. I want a FF XII HD instead!

L pretty much hit the nail on the head. It wasn't necessarily the merger but the departures that occurred after. Different minds, different wavelengths. Besides, lower sales are to be expected in this day and age. However I do agree that FF XIII was pretty piss poor.

_Rabbit said:

like the TWEWNY fandom did. :ffs:
Click to expand...
Quick question; what the hell is the 'TWEWNY fandom'?
 
@Moonchild
Well..While to me FF XII certainly being a good game it doesnt match the quality of the previous titles IMO. I value the story/characters over anything else in a RPG and while XII has a few good characters it lacks in both aspects comparing to the other titles in the series.
XII has a beautiful art and setting but unmemorable music,potentially good story(but it stays that way.. It had potential thats all) and little character interaction. To me those negative aspects cripple the game to the point of me finding it inferior to almost the rest of the games in main series, nevertheless still a good game ( the gameplay is okay but its kind of meh and boring, not that turn based combat was ever very exciting nonetheless.).
I do agree on the lower sales point you made and regarding the HD remaster it is only logical that X gets the treatment as the fans preferred 10 over 12(+sales+fan satisfaction).
 
Also I dont think that SE is responsible for the destruction of Final Fantasy. Hironobu Sakaguchi dropped the bomb with his movie in the first place.
FF XII was a decent game
FF XIII tried to bring new fans and it was sucessfull at that but it pissed of the old fans (I havent played it yet so I cannot voice my opinion on this one).
The other handhelds titles were pretty good imo!
Theatrythmn, Crisis Core(even people who dont know about FF7 can enjoy this as it is a prequel and it has pretty decent gameplay), Dissidia is really unique and top notch as a fighting game and should be released on the main home console (PS3), FF IV complete collection and other remakes such as FF3 for the DS and soon the PSP.

The past isnt coming back we need to get used to the new style in the games, sure XIII may have had crucial errors but that doesnt mean those cannot be corrected and that there wont be a good modern Final Fantasy. Give SE time to get their shit together and to realize that MMO's arent the way to go.
 
Shuce said:
Yet you act like XIII is the worst thing to happen to Final Fantasy

And Kingdom hearts has final fantasy themes and characters, so it is relevant.

Look sales are not everything, but they do mean something in the business,

Final Fantasy XIII has a good fan base, not on this site, but overall, has a good fan base, and if you don't think so, then I am sorry.
Click to expand...
Kh isnt relevant. Because we dont look for final fantasy in kh. It is its own entity.

And having a fanbase doesnt mean a game is good.

You are seeing this at SE point of view. Not as a fan. Youre trying to be nuetral where it cant be. Its upto how you enjoyed it. And no....we both know ff13 fans are a minority. You can look for them in several forums. It doesnt take this forum to prove it.
 
Razberry Knight said:
Kh isnt relevant. Because we dont look for final fantasy in kh. It is its own entity.

And having a fanbase doesnt mean a game is good.

You are seeing this at SE point of view. Not as a fan. Youre trying to be nuetral where it cant be. Its upto how you enjoyed it. And no....we both know ff13 fans are a minority. You can look for them in several forums. It doesnt take this forum to prove it.
Click to expand...

Forums alone don`t consider is a small fan base in Shuce`s defence. Considering that the forum members are the most extreme critics i`ve ever come across in existance.

For all the people complaining about lack of releases for these titles, blame the graphics, people. We`ve all been so anal about having attention to detail, do you know how hard that is to create in a game, especially Final Fantasy? The developers care so much about you guys, that they want the game to have as beautiful graphics that you can imagine. XIII was just a taste of what graphics they were capable of giving to the series, they're definetely going to take it to the next level with Versus no doubt. Your developer is going to give a release shortly, so stop being so impatient, stop blaming the developers for your boredom, just do something else to occupy yourself with in the meantime, that's what Xtube is for right?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top