Square and Enix didn't destroy Final Fantasy or eachother

[Razberry Knight]

Forums alone don`t consider is a small fan base in Shuce`s defence. Considering that the forum members are the most extreme critics i`ve ever come across in existance.

For all the people complaining about lack of releases for these titles, blame the graphics, people. We`ve all been so anal about having attention to detail, do you know how hard that is to create in a game, especially Final Fantasy? The developers care so much about you guys, that they want the game to have as beautiful graphics that you can imagine. XIII was just a taste of what graphics they were capable of giving to the series, they're definetely going to take it to the next level with Versus no doubt. Your developer is going to give a release shortly, so stop being so impatient, stop blaming the developers for your boredom, just do something else to occupy yourself with in the meantime, that's what Xtube is for right?

This isnt about versus.. this is about how the defense is. And maybe you just have lower standards. It doesnt even take forums. You can look up every video and every article outt there saying 13 sucks. And they say whats true to them. And many fans Level with the haters. Because dep down they see what they see.

They sold well therefore sales means they are good games. The developers decided to focus on graphocs first. Wjy? For fans? Then they shouldve known that their fans dont focus on graphics but gameplay and story and freedom to exxplore the world of ff. The sad thing is they wanted to make a ps3 worthy game. Not an ff worthy.

Ff14 was bad. But it didnt have to be. Amd SE knows that

 

[CPancer]

This isnt about versus.. this is about how the defense is. And maybe you just have lower standards. It doesnt even take forums. You can look up every video and every article outt there saying 13 sucks. And they say whats true to them. And many fans Level with the haters. Because dep down they see what they see.

They sold well therefore sales means they are good games. The developers decided to focus on graphocs first. Wjy? For fans? Then they shouldve known that their fans dont focus on graphics but gameplay and story and freedom to exxplore the world of ff. The sad thing is they wanted to make a ps3 worthy game. Not an ff worthy

Every game wants to be platform worthy. You're right, it is about story & exploration but how dissapointing would a title like Final Fantasy be if it didn't meet expectations with the consoles graphics? It takes an incredible amount of time to achieve these standards for videogames. And i'm sure 13 games into the series it would be extremely hard to create an movie-worthy plot. My standards for this game are no different from the common FF fanbase, I am just more open to new things that can be offered to the series which clearly is not the case with most of these forum members. Everybody wants history to repeat itself, I don't.

 

[Shaissa]

So.. because I like XIII I have "lowered my standards" Again not trying to turn this into a bash XIII thread! If you wanna bash XIII go make a thread about it! This is about more than XIII, we had lots of good FF games even if you didn't like XIII.

 

[kratoscar2008]

After FFX all SE products has been bad or average, EVERY ONE OF THEM.

 

[CPancer]

After FFX all SE products has been bad or average, EVERY ONE OF THEM.

My eyes roll down hills when I read your responses, at least try to be more in depth with your posts, there are more intelligant ways of being negative.

 

[Razberry Knight]

Every game wants to be platform worthy. You're right, it is about story & exploration but how dissapointing would a title like Final Fantasy be if it didn't meet expectations with the consoles graphics? It takes an incredible amount of time to achieve these standards for videogames. And i'm sure 13 games into the series it would be extremely hard to create an movie-worthy plot. My standards for this game are no different from the common FF fanbase, I am just more open to new things that can be offered to the series which clearly is not the case with most of these forum members. Everybody wants history to repeat itself, I don't.

Theres a different from accepting new aspects. As long as they dont remove the old aspects. Too many people had to level with it exrensively. If it was a ff spin off or not even an ff title. It would be different. And yes your standards are different. Because you dont expect anything the other ff have. And im not saying what one or two ff games had im referring to what all ff games of the maon series had.

It has nothing to do with history. It has to do expanding to what they already had thatade ff for what it is. They focused wayyyy too much on graphics. It couldve focused less cinematic and more on the world.

You dont love ff13 for being an ff game.

Point being. SE lost some of their fanbase BEFORE 14. If you look at it carefully you can see SE is trying to hide 13 as a failure by using 14. Little promotion, barely announced ams speedily released, it would be easier for SE to intentionally make a failure and use it as a way to regain fans by admitting they messed up on the least relevant game in the series over the one they want to gain money. And it has nothing to dk with selling millons. Most of the spin offs have sold millions on their first month

Im saying sales means nothing. If you dont think SE screwed up ff then at least make it come out of you. Not sales

 

[CPancer]

Theres a different from accepting new aspects. As long as they dont remove the old aspects. Too many people had to level with it exrensively. If it was a ff spin off or not even an ff title. It would be different. And yes your standards are different. Because you dont expect anything the other ff have. And im not saying what one or two ff games had im referring to what all ff games of the maon series had.

It has nothing to do with history. It has to do expanding to what they already had thatade ff for what it is. They focused wayyyy too much on graphics. It couldve focused less cinematic and more on the world.

You dont love ff13 for being an ff game.

Point being. SE lost some of their fanbase BEFORE 14. If you look at it carefully you can see SE is trying to hide 13 as a failure by using 14. Little promotion, barely announced ams speedily released, it would be easier for SE to intentionally make a failure and use it as a way to regain fans by admitting they messed up on the least relevant game in the series over the one they want to gain money. And it has nothing to dk with selling millons. Most of the spin offs have sold millions on their first month

Im saying sales means nothing. If you dont think SE screwed up ff then at least make it come out of you. Not sales

There was nothing mentioned in my previous statement regarding sales, I am a fan of the game in every single aspect it has offered since it's released. And how does Square Enix screw up the series when it's the developers who have worked with the previous installments that screwed up in your opinion? And I think it's funny how you used the word "Some" in terms of lossed fanbase, maybe from lost fanbase comes new fanbase too, ever thought of that? How do you enjoy the game that feeds off the same gaming material for the past 25 years? It gets boring at some point, You can't justify that. Why buy a game if you expect it to play the same way as the other? Because it has different characters? Slightly different storyline? New weapons?

It's wierd how you establish Square-Enix so differently than before the collaboration began? Even though most of the important developers did stay on with Squaresoft and produce the title after the collaboration. The only difference was that Squaresoft got a bigger team thanks to Enix. You Want to Believe that it's the collaborations fault for these titles that were produce, but no, you simply don't want to accept the changes that have been made for the development. I wonder though, how deep you read in to those overly critisized reviews?

 

[Sheechiibii]

FFXIII was barely a game, it was like an interactive movie. A bad movie at that.

Reasons why I dislike FFXIII. It has this beautiful world we never ever get to explore, we run in straight lines with absolutely no variation or exploration, not even on Pulse. Then we're just given a huge field and more straight halls. It has these characters that are never developed or given any background for us to identify with or connect to, the story is very complicated and hard to follow for the first half of the game. A lot of the more important aspects of the plot we're not shown, instead we have to go find it in a datalog. There is virually no weapon and armour system. The leveling system is as bad as the map - nothing but straight lines, no variation, no choice. The battle system is linear too, you get no choice over what your characters are doing, even the main character will act on their own unless you go out of your way to make them act. The summons are unnessesarily difficult to obtain and are not powerful enough to make it worh it. The only sidequests we see in the game are right at the end of the game and they are boring - it's just abouting fighting enemies, exactly what you've been doing the entire time - no variation.

I'm sure I've missed things but these are all pretty good reasons why not to like the game. I respect that for other people these things might not matter since they find enjoyment in other parts of the game. I'd like to know what there is to like in this game from somebody who does like it?

 

[Lirael]

Looking at the FF games critically, it's interesting to note that they have focussed on different aspects in more recent main titles.

In Final Fantasy XII, we were presented with a fantastic world. We were pretty much free to explore this as we wished. There were bits and bobs to be doing throughout the world; you could quite easily leave the story for a few hours and dive into the hunt challenges. Alongside that, we had a decent story, but a sketchy one which focussed on a political movement as opposed to a set of characters; the characters were agents through which we learnt about the world as opposed to three dimensional people. The battle system was very different, but could be made as tricky as you wished. Those who wanted an easier game could program the characters to move quite independently, whereas those who wanted a challenge could input moves for each character as the battle went on.

Final Fantasy XIII was almost the opposite. Instead, it focussed on the journey of the main characters. Gameplay was quite linear, and you couldn't really explore individual areas, but this tied in with the setting and plot; the characters were running away. Furthermore, they had to reach each destination quickly before their brands developed and they became C'eith. The characters all had a personal reason for being on the journey; they weren't just there like Vaan or Penelo.

Final Fantasy XIII also had its own, in depth mythology, which was meant to flesh out the story! I admit, there's some reading to be done, but I have never been fond of writers who force details about their world into the script! People don't explain the familiar in real life. The datalogs allow the interested gamer to delve into the history and present state of Pulse, to learn about it in detail on their own terms. To me, the datalogs are like the books you can find in games like Morrowind!

Final Fantasy XIII-2 expanded on this mythology and on the battle system, which was the only flaw in FFXIII for me personally. I'm not sure whether they intended to create this game from the offset, but it XIII-2 also built upon the characters Serah and Hope. Both of these had appeared somewhat immature in XIII, but in XIII-2, they grew up, became more independent, more intelligent, selfless and emotionally strong. XIII-2 experimented with a different type of world, too. The game consisted of 'levels' in effect; the gamer saw small snippets of a larger world. We didn't travel along one, continuous path. I admit I would have preferred to roam freely around the world in XIII, exploring all the nooks and crannies, but that would have required a lot of work. They had to create several different versions of each area! The 'levels' also kept the gamer more focussed as the s/he tried to navigate across a number of different 'times' (worlds) on the timeline. Should we really criticise XIII-2 for this? Games like Uncharted, Spyro and The Price of Persia have presented us with a similar experience. Those games consist of levels and cut out the exploration between key places in the story.

Alongside this, Square provided us with a set of spin off titles, each of which had its own purpose.

• Crises Core and Dirge of Cerberus both appealed to the fans of VII who wanted to hear more about the history Zack and life of Vincent, both of which are fairly abstract characters in VII.
• Dissidia and Dissidia: 012 explored a new genre entirely! I am tempted to call these games fanservice and/or an appeal to draw in new fans, but they are well developed in and of themselves. Besides, who doesn't want a fun, lighthearted fighting game with all of the best FF characters?
• Theatrhythm is a tip of the hat to the history of FF. It's fun...but I'm not afraid to admit that, this time, SE made a mistake. The game is too dependent upon DLC. The gameplay lacks variety and depth. It's quite a disappointment.

Haven't we had several spin-off titles on the D.S?

• Final Fantasy: The 4 Heroes of Light
• Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers
• Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Echoes of Time
• Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Ring of Fates

I haven't played these so can't pass judgment, but again they're trying to appeal to a new market. It's quite possible that in a few years time, the children who are now playing these games will pick up one of the main titles. Since kids these days are quite foucssed on graphics, I'm not too sure they'll play games as far back as FFIX, but they may at least play the HD version of X, XIII, XIII-2...who knows, if they have an older brother or sister with a dusty PS2, they may look at XII.

This has been an age of variety.

@Sheechiibii

Spoiler

It has these characters that are never developed or given any background for us to identify with or connect to...

But...
- Lightning and Snow both long to save Serah. Serah is the one thing Lightning has left in the world. Furthermore, she feels she's supposed to protect her. Unfortunately she gets turned into a l'Cie whilst trying (and failing) to save Serah. After this, she is forced to work with others. She resents this at first and remains very distant, brooding over her loss, but over time, she realises that friendship and empathy are important; in order to succeed, people have to work together and support one another. They have to accept support as well as supporting others. She also realises that you can't be selfish if you want to support others. In trying to protect Serah, she focussed too much on her own prejudices and failed to support Serah's personal choices. She didn't accept Snow. She also realises that having these prejudices can blind you: when Serah told her she was a l'Cie, Lightning beleived she was faking it and instead hoped to run away with Snow.
- Snow longs to make a vulnerable girl happy. He's a bit of a jock, it must be said, but he has a good heart and he truly loves Serah. He struggles to maintain a positive outlook at times, particularly towards the end, but he finds strength in his memories of the beautiful young girl who's waiting for him, her hero. He uses this strength to encourage those around him.
- Sahz has failed to protect his son. In the beginning of XIII, I believe he wants to avoid the l'Cie so he may distance himself from his mistakes, but instead, he gets sucked in. He remains very quiet about his son, perhaps feeling ashamed, but he confides in Vanille a little; even the most distanced of us need to confide in others occasionally. Later on, he has to see his son transform into crystal! what's more, he discovers that Vanille is responsible! He loses hope and tries to kill himself, but he realises there are still people who need protecting.
- Hope loses his mother. He's only 14, so he reacts in a somewhat immature way, seeking revenge against Snow, but as he journeys with Lightning, he sees her faults and learns that she, too, was affected by loss. Travelling with Lightning, who is cold and distant but unhappy, helps Hope see the error in his ways. He does confront Snow, but later, he is able to take a step back and sees the bigger picture: Snow is a human being, succeptible to making mistakes, trying to find his own way too.
- Fang is a bit more...meh until the end of the game when her love for Vanille causes her to be incredibly brave a selfless! In the final few scenes, her attitude throughout the game comes together. Everything falls into place! She loves Vanille like Lightning loves Serah and wants to protect her. She has always sought to do this.
- Vanille is brave too and far more mature than people give her credit for! She makes silly noises and acts a bit too sprightly, but she harbours a secret. Her positivity is an attempt to hide this secret, to bear the burden alone without arousing suspicion.

 

[Razberry Knight]

There was nothing mentioned in my previous statement regarding sales, I am a fan of the game in every single aspect it has offered since it's released. And how does Square Enix screw up the series when it's the developers who have worked with the previous installments that screwed up in your opinion? And I think it's funny how you used the word "Some" in terms of lossed fanbase, maybe from lost fanbase comes new fanbase too, ever thought of that? How do you enjoy the game that feeds off the same gaming material for the past 25 years? It gets boring at some point, You can't justify that. Why buy a game if you expect it to play the same way as the other? Because it has different characters? Slightly different storyline? New weapons?

It's wierd how you establish Square-Enix so differently than before the collaboration began? Even though most of the important developers did stay on with Squaresoft and produce the title after the collaboration. The only difference was that Squaresoft got a bigger team thanks to Enix. You Want to Believe that it's the collaborations fault for these titles that were produce, but no, you simply don't want to accept the changes that have been made for the development. I wonder though, how deep you read in to those overly critisized reviews?

Thats because you jumped into a conversation.

The changes were reverted for the most part in ff13-2 only the story was done in a haste. So the changes done in 13 didnt last.

Look at mario. The games of mario do t change too much. They just continue to expand it. Im saying keep the same material that works. Also look at pokemon.

 

[Sheechiibii]

@Sheechiibii

Spoiler

But...
- Lightning and Snow both long to save Serah. Serah is the one thing Lightning has left in the world. Furthermore, she feels she's supposed to protect her. Unfortunately she gets turned into a l'Cie whilst trying (and failing) to save Serah. After this, she is forced to work with others. She resents this at first and remains very distant, brooding over her loss, but over time, she realises that friendship and empathy are important; in order to succeed, people have to work together and support one another. They have to accept support as well as supporting others. She also realises that you can't be selfish if you want to support others. In trying to protect Serah, she focussed too much on her own prejudices and failed to support Serah's personal choices. She didn't accept Snow. She also realises that having these prejudices can blind you: when Serah told her she was a l'Cie, Lightning beleived she was faking it and instead hoped to run away with Snow.
- Snow longs to make a vulnerable girl happy. He's a bit of a jock, it must be said, but he has a good heart and he truly loves Serah. He struggles to maintain a positive outlook at times, particularly towards the end, but he finds strength in his memories of the beautiful young girl who's waiting for him, her hero. He uses this strength to encourage those around him.
- Sahz has failed to protect his son. In the beginning of XIII, I believe he wants to avoid the l'Cie so he may distance himself from his mistakes, but instead, he gets sucked in. He remains very quiet about his son, perhaps feeling ashamed, but he confides in Vanille a little; even the most distanced of us need to confide in others occasionally. Later on, he has to see his son transform into crystal! what's more, he discovers that Vanille is responsible! He loses hope and tries to kill himself, but he realises there are still people who need protecting.
- Hope loses his mother. He's only 14, so he reacts in a somewhat immature way, seeking revenge against Snow, but as he journeys with Lightning, he sees her faults and learns that she, too, was affected by loss. Travelling with Lightning, who is cold and distant but unhappy, helps Hope see the error in his ways. He does confront Snow, but later, he is able to take a step back and sees the bigger picture: Snow is a human being, succeptible to making mistakes, trying to find his own way too.
- Fang is a bit more...meh until the end of the game when her love for Vanille causes her to be incredibly brave a selfless! In the final few scenes, her attitude throughout the game comes together. Everything falls into place! She loves Vanille like Lightning loves Serah and wants to protect her. She has always sought to do this.
- Vanille is brave too and far more mature than people give her credit for! She makes silly noises and acts a bit too sprightly, but she harbours a secret. Her positivity is an attempt to hide this secret, to bear the burden alone without arousing suspicion.

I just felt like there was no information about the characters prior to 2 weeks before the game, we see nothing about who they really are before that and none of them felt - to me - like friends by the end, they entered the game the same as they left it for me. They went through all this stuff, but I didn't see any difference in their personas or their actions at the end. They didn't seem to have changed at all to me.

 

[Starships]

Quick question; what the hell is the 'TWEWNY fandom'?

The World Ends With You fans. Sorry I meant '' TWEWY " not " TWEWNY "

 

[L]

Yet you act like XIII is the worst thing to happen to Final Fantasy

Because it probably is. Who the fuck makes a character who breaks the barrier of the third dimension to troll their customers? Fuck those people. I'd slap them all if I could.

Maybe I am harsh on it from an overall point of view. But I could not be any nicer about it in the former. Final Fantasy XIII was terrible, as a game. It didn't matter how good the soundtrack was, it didn't matter if there were endgame challenges, you don't make fights 2-5 times longer than they should be just to make a game 40 hours long.

I never finished Final Fantasy XIII even though I was (apparently) in the last chapter at 27 Hours. I just got so tired of feeling the way someone who has never played world of warcraft feels when they watch an arena match. Lots of numbers, nothing dying.

Final Fantasy XIII-2 had potential to be a decent release. But they put Caius Ballad in the game. The game obviously improved on everything that I hated about Final Fantasy XIII sans Caius... but the Colosseum. Final Fantasy X offered the content that DLC content offers for free, and in more abundance. Final Fantasy X is regarded as one of the best games of all time by many gamers. At that point, you really have to ask yourself why the hell the Colosseum was even put in the game in the first place when the guy in it tells you to come back later when you get stronger.

After beating Final Fantasy X or before, you could explore the Omega Ruins and fight Dark Aeons and acquire powerful reagents to customize your equipment with. In Final Fantasy XIII-2 you can complete a bestiary to get trolled by Caius, and fight a monster in an encounter that is not challenging at all and is extremely tedious.

edit: oh yeah, and they forgot to put the ending in the game

they wanted to save it for ff13-3

cheeky bastards

So.. because I like XIII I have "lowered my standards" Again not trying to turn this into a bash XIII thread! If you wanna bash XIII go make a thread about it! This is about more than XIII, we had lots of good FF games even if you didn't like XIII.

Well just because the flow of the discussion is on Final Fantasy XIII doesn't mean that it cannot change. It is true that there are many Final Fantasy titles that we have all enjoyed, and that is why we hold the company to a standard.

After FFX all SE products has been bad or average, EVERY ONE OF THEM.

I don't think that's entirely fair. The Tactics series took on a more light-hearted theme after the original release, but were still fun games. FFXII was decent also. I could think of worse games that I absolutely did not enjoy in the least.

 

[Omegadruid]

Final Fantasy XIII while perhaps lacking in the gameplay aspect has apparently a pretty decent story, interesting mythos and should I say characters with a stubborn personality :S. That sounds to me a much better Final Fantasy than XII (I didnt play XIII yet because I dont have a PS3) because it focus more on the storyline aspect of an RPG and thats what I value more. XII felt way too westernized and I dont play JRPGS for super huge exploration (something like FF6/7 is as much as I would like for exploration).
But of course the tolerance towards XIII's faults depend on the player's standards regarding all the different categories that define a JRPG. The gameplay while certainly mediocre shouldnt be considered terrible from what Ive seen. I cant wait to play XIII and make my own judgements of it. I think that if the story attaches the player to the world I couldnt care less about the downsides of the game! It wouldnt certainly be the best final fantasy out there but an average one I guess.
XII as a game is pretty decent but as a final fantasy it kind of disappointed me to the point of me finding FF2's characters and overall feel(plot, soundtrack) superior. If I wanted top notch RPG gameplay I would return to world of warcraft for instance. Customization on the other hand was somthing that I always valued in Final Fantasies but not really the combat system because there is nothing exciting about turn based, random encounters system (Although I love them but they are nothing special compared to other experiences of gameplay I had)

Edit: I also forgot to mention that I appreciate in my games a lot of character interaction thus making JRPGs such as Lunar silver star harmony, breath of fire III and FFX contenders for my favourite game of all time. While in XIII the characters apparently dont change much atleast there is a lot of conflict and interaction between them.

 

[Mazy]

Crisis Core was my favourite by Square Enix. Advent Children.. wasn't the best but I enjoyed it.
FFXIII was just boring. The characters look boring too. All blue eyes and pink haired. The story is pretty bad. I haven't finished it. Might get around to it. Is the sequel worth buying?
Wasn't XI only by Square?
Also, I liked the Dissidias and KH:BBS.
I wanted to play DoC but apparently it's baaaad.

 

[Sheechiibii]

I wanted to play DoC but apparently it's baaaad.

I liked DoC and I don't normally like shooters. It was totally different to what I usually play but I wouldn't say it was bad. It was better than XIII in my opinion. Not that that means much since I generally think everything's better than XIII...I say you should give it a go if you're interested.

 

[Razberry Knight]

Final Fantasy XIII while perhaps lacking in the gameplay aspect has apparently a pretty decent story, interesting mythos and should I say characters with a stubborn personality :S. That sounds to me a much better Final Fantasy than XII (I didnt play XIII yet because I dont have a PS3) because it focus more on the storyline aspect of an RPG and thats what I value more. XII felt way too westernized and I dont play JRPGS for super huge exploration (something like FF6/7 is as much as I would like for exploration).
But of course the tolerance towards XIII's faults depend on the player's standards regarding all the different categories that define a JRPG. The gameplay while certainly mediocre shouldnt be considered terrible from what Ive seen. I cant wait to play XIII and make my own judgements of it. I think that if the story attaches the player to the world I couldnt care less about the downsides of the game! It wouldnt certainly be the best final fantasy out there but an average one I guess.
XII as a game is pretty decent but as a final fantasy it kind of disappointed me to the point of me finding FF2's characters and overall feel(plot, soundtrack) superior. If I wanted top notch RPG gameplay I would return to world of warcraft for instance. Customization on the other hand was somthing that I always valued in Final Fantasies but not really the combat system because there is nothing exciting about turn based, random encounters system (Although I love them but they are nothing special compared to other experiences of gameplay I had)

Edit: I also forgot to mention that I appreciate in my games a lot of character interaction thus making JRPGs such as Lunar silver star harmony, breath of fire III and FFX contenders for my favourite game of all time. While in XIII the characters apparently dont change much atleast there is a lot of conflict and interaction between them.

I suggest you make your judgement after you play it. The only two buttons you need are x and R1. Nothing really. Switching paradigms and pressing same button.

 

[Mazy]

I liked DoC a
nd I don't normally like shooters. It was totally different to what I usually play but I wouldn't say it was bad. It was better than XIII in my opinion. Not that that means much since I generally think everything's better than XIII...I say you should give it a go if you're interested.

I am interested but my ps2 doesn't work properly anymore and it is only for the ps2, right?

 

[Sheechiibii]

I am interested but my ps2 doesn't work properly anymore and it is only for the ps2, right?

Yeah I think so, unless you can get it on the PSN or if you've got a PS3 that plays PS1 and PS2 games.