The next generation of Jenova

Aztec Triogal said:
Even so though, you don't really see many SOLDIERs in the game. I'm trying to think if the higher up Shinra guard are called SOLDIERS but I don't really recall. I don't think so. Makes you kind of question how many people got it and how much of it they got.
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In the Shinra building the first time around, you encounter Soldier 3rd, the 3rd I can only assume that it's their rank. In Junon, after the WEAPONS awaken, you encounter SOLDIER 2nd, theor attacks are more powerful, they cast higher level magic, and they have a new attack called Sword of Doom, which kinda resembles Cloud's Braver limit break. And finally, you encounter SOLDIER 1st on the way up to the Sister Ray Cannon. Tey're basicly the same as the SOLDIER 2nds, but there attacks are a little more powerful, but noy by much.

After destroying Jenova Synthesis, she/he/it dies. She is already dead in AC. The SHM are being summoned by Sephiroth's will not Jenova. Even if Jenova was still alive, she can't summon them, because the SHM don't have any J cells inside of them. This is why they needed the kids, to make them(kids) be summoned by Jenova, and then they(SHM) would find where she/he/it is located. The SHM thought that they would find mother, but they were just being manipulated/controlled by Sephiroth, to make him return.
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You're misinformed. Jenova, from what I gather anyway, can't really die. Her cells spread out to so many people, the cells have a mind of their own, while still being a part of Jenova, they are always craving reuniting with Jenova. The remnants in Advent Children, DID have Jenova's cells inside of them. But it wasn't enough for the reunion. That's why they were seeking to find a piece of Jenova's body. Jenova was summoning them to ressurect Sephiroth to continue to carry out her/his/it's/thier will.
 
Yes, amen to you Omnislasher. They all act seperately. Like I said it creates more of a like instinctive effect than anything else.

Also, thanks for the reminders about the SOLDIERS. I really didn't recall. IT's interesting they didn't put any focus on them at all... or that no one recognized Cloud. And how ironic it was that he got dressed up like a Shinra guard when that's what he actually was.
 
wouldnt the children only carry certain traits of jenova and sephiroth as they would only receive small traces of jenovas cells as it would be diffused with real cells , therefore creating children with certain gifts such as memories that werent theirs or being stronger than they would naturally ?
 
Aztec Triogal said:
I'm not so sure that's true. Sephiroth was always being controlled by Jenova. He was doing what her will commanded. He was just strong enough to see them as his goals, not hers... but it was still her that wanted him to do all that he was doing. It was her way of living on without being able to live on.
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The FFVII Ultimania Omega Guide published by SE, say that Sephiroth was controlling Jenova during all the game.

As for her being alive at the beginning of the game, I'm not really sure she ever was or that she ever died, for that matter. I think the whole point is that her cells cause an instinctive nature in whomever they inhabit. It's not so much "Jenova's Will" as it is just aquiring her basic instincts and desires from the cells themselves. So to say you kill her at the end of FFVII doesnt' really make sense to me.
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In FFVII Jenova is a instinctual creature. But before it, she was a devious AND cunning creature that tricked the Cetras(this is said by Ifalna in the game), so yes, Jenova was alive. After the fight with the Cetras she lost her intelligence, and had only her instincts, but it doesn't mean she was dead. Jenova was still capable of controlling her cells, to make them go to a single place(Reunion) and to make them fight against enemyes(the three fights against Jenova Birth, Life and Death). But after you kill Synthesis, Jenova died. She doesn't have intelligence or instincts anymore. She is completelly dead.

At no real point did you ever see Sephiroth command Loz, Yazoo, or Kadaj. And at no point did you ever see them mention anything about him, other than a quick line by Kadaj to suggest major jealousy.
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The SHM are physical manifestations of Sephiroth's will. After he was defeated by Cloud in the Lifestream(end of FFVII) his will/spirit shatered in three parts, creating the SHM. Each one of them represent diferent parts of Sephiroth. Kadaj represent his cruelty, Yazoo represent his allure, and Loz represent his strenght. Sephiroth don't need to "command" them, because practicaly they ARE Sephiroth. And "It's confirmed that the silver-haired men's desire to find Jenova's remains and merge with them is due in part to Sephiroth's desire to be restored goading them without them knowing it."
This is all explained in the Reunion Files published by SE.

Omnislasher483 said:
You're misinformed. Jenova, from what I gather anyway, can't really die. Her cells spread out to so many people, the cells have a mind of their own, while still being a part of Jenova, they are always craving reuniting with Jenova. The remnants in Advent Children, DID have Jenova's cells inside of them. But it wasn't enough for the reunion. That's why they were seeking to find a piece of Jenova's body. Jenova was summoning them to ressurect Sephiroth to continue to carry out her/his/it's/thier will.
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No, i'm not. Without Jenova's will/instinct the cells do nothing. But during FFVII and AC, Sephiroth replaced her will with his own. He was controlling her cells. After he died in AC, Geostigma was over and people can live normaly even with Jenova cells inside of them, because the cells aren't capable of doing anything without a will(Jenova or Sephiroth) to controll them.
And about who was controlling who and the supposed J cells in the SHM, i already explained that in this same thread.
 
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Honestly, about all the books, I don't even remotely give a shit. I see it as post-fact. It doesn't matter. It doesn't contribute. I know Lady_Aerith goes by it too, and honestly I love hearing what they say, but it's not the same as the game. I see it as a version of Lost Order. It's just not relevant in my mind... and how they described it in the game is not how it portrays it in the books. So honestly, it's great if you blieve that... but whatever. It's all complete and utter bullshit to me. ;)
 
From what I gather, Jenova's cells acts as an enhancement for fighting skills in there dormant state. They also act as a sort of homing beacon when Jenova awakens. Aztec is right, the books put out after the fact, though fun to read, are somewhat irrelevant to the story sometimes.

Most of the answers having to do with Jenova, Sephiroth, SOLDIER, & Shinra, are in the game. If you play it enough times, you'll find the majority of the answers you seek.
 
So, you two(Aztec and Omni) are saying that your theories and opinions have more validity than the words of the guys that created the games?
 
I think you should go by more of what is stated in teh game as opposed to what a book is written about. It's like a sceneario where you have both a movie and a book made by the same developer, producer, or overall company. Most of the time the game is the best place to look to when needing answers; not the guide.

I think Aztec and Omnislasher are going the more reliable way of the options and looking for evidence from the actual game as opposed to a book that throws out ideas and such.

Actual Game > Ultimania guide
 
The Crystal said:
If you guys belive that the truth is only in the game, why you are talking about AC?
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It's part of FFVII, just like the books are. It's just not as important as the games are. At least with AC there was a lot of work to keep things factually correct... but even then there are a lot of mistakes. I don't trust AC over the original game. No one should.

Don't get me wrong, the books are very nice. It's fun to hear Nojima's opinions on this and that... but as far as describing feelings... you can go fuck a duck. I have a problem with people who feel they've pinned down their feelings. I have an even bigger problem with people who feel they've pinned down other people's problems. And I have a really really big problem with people who feel they've pinned down fictional people's problems eight fucking years after the fact. It's nice but it's not the bible on FFVII. The game is and you have to dig for the facts.
 
The Crystal said:
If you guys belive that the truth is only in the game, why you are talking about AC?
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As a matter of fact.....

The Crystal said:
This isn' right. SOLDIERs were injected with Mako AND Jenova cells. This is stated many times in the game. I suggest you to play it again.

As stated in DoC, many people still have Jenova cells in them, after the end of AC.

And Jenova Synthesis's cells created the Geostigma, after being destroyed in the Northern Crater, and spread in the Lifestream.



Sephiroth was the first human being injected with J cells. After Shinra discovered that he became more powerful, they decided to inject members of SOLDIER with them, to create a super army.

Hojo's experiment was to inject people of Nibelheim with J cells, to make them be controlled by Sephiroth's will and go to the Reunion. They are all sucessful experiments.


And about the topic of this thread, they wouldn't become insane like Sephiroth. In AC, Jenova's mind/consciousnes is already dead, replaced by Sephiroth's will. After his will was destroyed in AC, J cells don't have any negative effect in people anymore.
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I just checked the thread, and the first person to mention AC & DoC was you Crystal. You stated your theory based on the movie, me and Aztec argued against it. Though it would've probably been mentioned anyways, you mentioned it first.
 
Omnislasher483 said:
As a matter of fact.....



I just checked the thread, and the first person to mention AC & DoC was you Crystal. You stated your theory based on the movie, me and Aztec argued against it. Though it would've probably been mentioned anyways, you mentioned it first.
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It was me then. How ridiculous. :P

And everything i said was in the books. I know you two don't belive in them, But PLEASE, don't say that the words of the creators of FFVII are simply theories. This is... ridiculous.
Something that you two(and some other people i know) still don't understand, is that FFVII is SE's story, not ours. We cannot choose what is fact and what isn't, because we don't have any controll/influence over the story. Only SE can say what is cannon and what is not. If you ignore their words, you are ignoring the facts.
The games and books were created by the same people. So, all of them have the same validity. You cannot separate them in "cannon" and "non cannon" just because you don't like what the books say. This is the same thing if i decide that the 1st FFVII CD is cannon and the other two aren't, just because i didn't like what happens in the 2nd and 3rd CDs.
 
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No, the problem is that it's after the fact. Waaaay after the fact. It's the same people, down to the story people, but they describe things that simply cannot be described. And they describe them eight years after they did the game. So honestly I don't trust their comments on it so far after the project is over. And yea, the story is SE's and they published it way way back when... so yea... they can't change it or add bullshit now.
 
I never said that they were theories, nor did I discredit your theories or sources. I merely stated that a lot of the books, movies, other games, stories, or anything else, are published after the facts, and sometimes contradict the original story.

You want an example, play Crisis Core. There are a lot of plot holes their that contradict what Cloud remembered in FF7, even after these memories are confirmed to be what actually happened. Any argument can be made about your books, but fact remains that these books were not part of the story. They were simply published to try to simplify the events of FF7 and as we all know, FF7 is not a simple game to understand.
 
Those books were all written by the actual creators of FFVII. The books are not Nomura's opinions, these are his own creations and provide plenty of answers. The books aren't based off of opinion, they are based off of what the creators wanted to portray and provide plenty of answers to many questions unanswered. The books aren't hoaxes, they aren't written by fans, they are done by the actual people who made this game/movie in the first place, so they are in fact, as official as you're going to get.
 
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