There is... some thing wrong with this game?

[GabrielleTheLost]

i only own 2 final fantasy games and i really like both of them. i own the first FF on my PSP and got FF12 not very long ago at all. the open world and combat is nice i think. but every time i play FF12 i feel like there is some thing i just do not like at all about this game o.o

maybe it is the combat? it is neat some times but maybe i just really like turned based the older style? the more i play the more i wish vaan would just... go away o.o he feels like he is just there because and that is all. i really like balthier. ideal BF o.o moving on!

i am not very far in to the game. so maybe i will like vaan more? does any one else like the older style combat better? it does not feel turn based to me. some parts of the world so far do not feel very lifey. what i mean is it is pretty but some of it has no feelings to it. like it is just there. am i crazy? or am i not the only one?

i still like it and still want to finish it but i was reading about FF10 7 8 and 9 and the even older ones and they all feel like they have more... soul?

help ;-;

 

[Donald Trump]

It's a bad game. Everything gets worse.
Do not waste your time playing it.
All the older ones, even FF2 are better.

 

[Big Casino]

Battle system is a bit shite. First time i played FF12 i didnt like it at all. Though i liked it enough to beat it which is more than i can say about XIII. The 2nd time i played through the game i liked it a lot more. Still doesnt stand up to the previous games in my opinion but i didnt dislike it as much as i did my first run through.

Vaan doesnt get any better. None of the characters in that game do. Theyre just always there without feeling significant at all. Its much better than 13 however but it phails compared to the 7-10 era and is not as good as 4,-6.

 

[GabrielleTheLost]

well now i do not feel so bad :x i wonder what went wrong? my sister does not like the game at all and says ff 11 is loads better but she actually likes 13 better then 12 o.o

one of my friends older brother thinks 9 is the best and 2nd best is 7. but he hates 13 and thought 12 was all right :x

i will keep playing it. i did not expect vaan to get better really but it is sad to know that the other characters do not really develope at all either. that is one of the things that makes me want to keep playing games. one of the major things actually ;o

 

[Linnaete]

You're not obliged to treat Vaan as the game's protagonist. I reserve that for Ashe, given her centrality and pivotal importance to the storyline. I know Vaan's the player avatar when you're in town, but I just imagine Ashe, Balthier and the rest in a tavern with jugs of booze and their feet up, while Vaan is assigned to be the errand boy for them. Vaan is there probably because they feared not having an androgynous boy would alienate their core Japanese demographic.

Vaan slightly comes to the forefront later on when

Spoiler

he can see the Occuria-created illusion of Ashe's deceased husband Lord Rasler. This...doesn't actually lead to anything significant. He just says that the "ghost" to him looks like his brother, which was there either for a) the Occuria to give them both a reason to hate the Empire, or b) it's a poorly-executed and contrived device to make Ashe think she's not going insane, or something. I dunno. After that, Vaan blurs into the background again.

Well, you're probably looking at one of the few FFXII fans on this site. If the game isn't to your taste, don't feel you have to do so. It's very much one of the two most divisive games in the series and it's normal for someone to realise that ultimately, this just isn't their cup of tea for whatever reason. However, I have noticed lately that players turned off by the game the first time would return years later to give the game another chance and have left with more favourable opinions. I'm not sure how much of that is down to FFXIII backlash.

My reasons for liking the game is partially because I'm someone who enjoys being thorough with expansive landscapes, and someone willing to allow the overarching narrative to temporarily take a backseat. Some really don't enjoy that. They like having a tight narrative to keep them going and produce an organically paced game. To them, the thought of going through an entire forest and a steppe before the narrative kicks in again is a no-no. I was fine with the combat system given that I enjoyed the flexibility of the Gambits, but disappointed that positioning plays no role at all in combat. But once again, it's understandable why some may dislike it. Even if you turn off all Gambits, it's clunky and a pain when you really want to control every character in the party.

As for a "soul", I'd argue that FFXII has plenty of that in the towns. Have a gander around, talk to the NPCs, engage yourself with a bit of the rich Ivalice lore, and what you get is very much a comprehensive and "living world".

 

[Squid]

FFXII was amazing in my eyes. I will admit at first I didn't like it but once I got used to the gambits I found it had the most enjoyable battle system out of pretty much all the other FF games. Creating gambits are fun and if you hate them... well you can not use them. You're not forced to.

The characters are not that bad..some are a bit dull but others make up for that. The story is not that bad, just a bit political... I really don't get why people don't like this game.

 

[GabrielleTheLost]

the towns are fine. actually some of my favourite parts of the game. maybe deserts are supposed to be kind of empty feeling. after reading through the posts here and playing again after dinner i am thinking that it is not so much that i am feeling some thing wrong with it. more that i am feeling some thing different about it and i am having a longer time then usual getting used to it :x

does that even makes sense? ><

 

[Starships]

All the older ones, even FF2 are better.

This. Final Fantasy II at least has a interesting and powerful villain and the whole sibling issue between Maria and Leon. Final Fantasy XII has... a lot of space to get lost in and big dungeons.... that's basically it.

 

[Razberry Knight]

OR

This. Final Fantasy II at least has a interesting and powerful villain and the whole sibling issue between Maria and Leon. Final Fantasy XII has... a lot of space to get lost in and big dungeons.... that's basically it.

Personally i feel we focus on the weak points of ff12 over its focus and style. It differed completely from other FFs. To me its the "true" story. Rather than the "heroic seemingly humble" story. I admit the game could use more interaction between characters bbut overall, everything was intended as such. We're not suppose to see Vaan as the main character, an important character that gets the story started, but not the one we want to focus on. Balthier is interesting in my eyes and Ashe aswell. The plot did seem too political and couldve made things a little easier to understand the motives....but again, its more about style over quantity. Vaan has his moments, very few, and once you see them, you'll know youre not going to see more. Tutorial also couldve been etter (i never used quickening for most of the first part). The game has its faults obviously. I however still see a very solid RPG. Compared to XIII, this game had more heart, because at least it offered great gameplay, free roam, and lack of random encounters.

 

[Linnaete]

This. Final Fantasy II at least has a interesting and powerful villain

And people say FFXII is a rip off of Star Wars. FFII has something closer than Gabranth in FFXII to Darth Vader, its evil emperor is pretty much one dimensional and wants to conquer the world, because...he's just evil by nature? And he carries none of the factors that at least makes Emperor Palpatine, or Vayne Solidor, remotely interesting. And FFII's Dreadnought is pretty much their Death Star.

Sure, Vayne doesn't come to mind when you think of a badass Final Fantasy villain, but he has distinctive shades of grey in there without the guy being absolutely psychotic. He was always groomed for leader, and deemed losses of lives as a necessary cost not just for the flourishing of an Empire, but also because as we learn eventually, he

Spoiler

is ashamed of the fact that humanity through King Raithwall decided to subjugate themselves to the whim and manipulations of the Occuria. He saw it as his personal and noble goal to tear that settlement to shreds, even if the means to such an end for your main characters seem unforgivable. So what you get at the end is not a certainty that you've saved the world, but a subtle and lingering question of whether or not your actions have produced a favourable outcome for humanity.

The game wasn't the first of its sort to have dungeons that seem to to drag either. The only part that really aggravated me was the Pharos near the end, because that just felt like a game designer deciding to be unnecessarily nasty to the players. Otherwise, FFXII has contemporaries and games of the same genre of that sort as well. I heard people say there is a dungeon in Xenogears that is just as bad, if not, worse. The Sandsea areas with the elementals come to mind as well, but they were avoidable. But otherwise, I can't fault much of the open landscape areas. Thank goodness you can avoid most of the fighting if you must.

I'd buy a FFXII HD with the IZJE stuff included though, if Square are intelligent enough to consider the idea. FFXII at its vanilla form is still a good game, but the additional content and features that so far only Japan has access to would elevate this to awesome-tier. Now if Matsuno didn't go over his head and have a mental breakdown, and if other producers didn't decide to interfere and complicate development, then we might have seen a final product that would be more in tune with Matsuno's original vision for the game. That would have made it god-tier.

 

[Donald Trump]

Balthier is interesting in my eyes and Ashe aswell. The plot did seem too political and couldve made things a little easier to understand the motives....but again, its more about style over quantity.

People always say that about FF12.

'Ah yeds, FF12, that is a really super mega ultra hyper boring game.'

'Actually it's political'.

It's complete bullshit that it's in anyway political. There's no discussion of trade quotas or plans to introduce a new way to evaluate teachers. Very little happens in the way of story, but what does happens concerns some big plane-ships and some countries. So the masochists who like the game have decided to call the story political. Political also means that you can discredit people who don't see the game in the way, as thick, or unable to recognise the subtleties. etc etc.

Then there's Balthier who the defenders of the game seem to love. He's a George Michael look alike who does not for the first 75% of the game. Then in the final quarter he says he's a hero and shows empathy towards Ashe and everyone thinks he's great.

So what you get at the end is not a certainty that you've saved the world, but a subtle and lingering question of whether or not your actions have produced a favourable outcome for humanity.

No don't not. The game has the opportunity to leave that kind of doubt, but the question is never raised if Vaan and co. are doing the right thing. Not once does anyone consider that. Hardly raising a lingering or subtle question. Vayne's relationship with the Francophone Venat is never discussed either. It could have made it a more nuanced story. To what extent Vayne was influenced or even controlled by Venat. The latter would make it pleasingly ironic. However, like lingering and subtle questions, the game refuses to raise the issue.

It's a boring game, with boring characters, and a boring story, and boring gameplay.

 

[Razberry Knight]

Yeah George Costaza....you can say all that, doesnt make it true about political and its like you see the uniqueness of FFXII but fixated to see it as a flaw.

 

[mrdaggoth]

I think Final Fantasy XII took a clever turn with the realistic battle system. It sure ditched the old school, but at least it didn't utterly obliterate all of the Final Fantasy elements like FFXIII.
Finding all the abilities, gambits and licenses is a fun run and the story is actually decent compared to others like FFVIII. The only things that are wrong with Final Fantasy XII is that the game is short and on the easier side of difficult gameplay.

 

[Starships]

he's just evil by nature? And he carries none of the factors that at least makes Emperor Palpatine, or Vayne Solidor, remotely interesting. And FFII's Dreadnought is pretty much their Death Star.

The Dreadnought is nothing like the Death Star, the Death Star is round egg shape for starts and the Dreadnought is just a evil version of the normal everyday Final Fantasy airship. Paramecia at least managed to be some sort of a threat defeating Heaven and Hell. Vayne just stood their with his greasy hair and looked pretty and said some fancy words to try and look smart.

Paramecia may not be a original villain but he was created in 1988 25 years ago, and at least he did something. At least he was interesting and a challenge and a force for Firion and the heroes to face.

Sure, Vayne doesn't come to mind when you think of a badass Final Fantasy villain.

Yup. Pretty much. Vayne makes Genesis the Gackt model look like Satan.

I'd buy a FFXII HD with the IZJE stuff included though, if Square are intelligent enough to consider the idea.

I hope that they remake FF V and FF VI on the 3 DS first and give FF IX some love and attention first before they think about giving FF XII a HD re-boot.

FFXII at its vanilla form is still a good game

No.

And I hate this " You're not supposed to focus on Vaan " ! excuse. If you weren't then SE wouldn't of made him controllable, focus most of the beginning game on him and his brother and they would've made it like FF6 where they let you choose the main character from 10 mins in ! It's just a excuse for one of FF XII's huge flaws.

 

[Linnaete]

The Dreadnought is nothing like the Death Star, the Death Star is round egg shape for starts and the Dreadnought is just a evil version of the normal everyday Final Fantasy airship. Paramecia at least managed to be some sort of a threat defeating Heaven and Hell. Vayne just stood their with his greasy hair and looked pretty and said some fancy words to try and look smart.

You're talking about the physical dissimilarities of the Death Star and Dreadnought for some reason. Of course they're nothing alike aesthetically. I was noting a similarity between them as imperial superstations capable of laying waste to settlements, where a princess is held captive (okay, ignoring the fact that it turned out to be a lamia in FFII) and with the rebels focusing on destroying the imperial super weapon before they can kick down the Emperor's door.

Of course, we have to take note that all comparisons with Star Wars are largely superficial. They're mostly coincidental than anything. But I just want to get the point across that it isn't just FFXII that evokes a vague impression of George Lucas's franchise at times.

Paramecia may not be a original villain...at least he did something. At least he was interesting and a challenge and a force for Firion and the heroes to face.

As did Vayne. He orchestrated a ruse to pin the blame of regicide on an innocent man to publicly absolve himself and the empire of having their hands stained with the blood of a king - in the hopes of smoothly annexing Dalmasca. He also ordered the complete burning and sacking of Mt. Bur Omisace, while displaying his ruthlessness by turning on a Judge for questioning his self-appointed authority and motives. It's simply wrong to imply that Vayne did nothing but sit around and talk.

I only wish they would show Vayne's inherent ruthlessness when he slayed his own brothers for treachery rather than tell.

Yup. Pretty much. Vayne makes Genesis the Gackt model look like Satan.

Ah, yes. Genesis. One of the worst villains ever in gaming. It takes a lot of hardcore dislike with a good explanation required to put Vayne below him.

I hope that they remake FF V and FF VI on the 3 DS first and give FF IX some love and attention first before they think about giving FF XII a HD re-boot.

Given they just threw FFV on the itunes store without remaking it (though they did ruin the sprites) and Square-Enix's reluctance to support 3DS releases in the west? It's becoming increasingly unlikely. Furthermore, the company they used to remake FFIII and FFIV - Matrix Software - has gone on to focus on mobile games.

No.

It's okay. Toni, Martel, LukeLC and I will just be in our little corner.

And I hate this " You're not supposed to focus on Vaan " ! excuse. If you weren't then SE wouldn't of made him controllable, focus most of the beginning game on him and his brother and they would've made it like FF6 where they let you choose the main character from 10 mins in ! It's just a excuse for one of FF XII's huge flaws.

Vaan is a product of executive meddling in FFXII's development who thought the game wouldn't do well with its main Japanese demographic if they didn't have a teenage pretty boy. Not even I justify the need for him to be the on-screen avatar in the towns, which is why I humorously suggest that he's the errand boy when everyone else is kicking back with some beer. As far as I am concerned, Ashe is the main protagonist.

 

[Starships]

You're talking about the physical dissimilarities of the Death Star and Dreadnought for some reason. Of course they're nothing alike aesthetically. I was noting a similarity between them as imperial superstations capable of laying waste to settlements, where a princess is held captive (okay, ignoring the fact that it turned out to be a lamia in FFII) and with the rebels focusing on destroying the imperial super weapon before they can kick down the Emperor's door.

Cid was held prisoner as well so should we add bun-circles in his hair too ? Hilda was Hilda at that stage, she wasn't abducted and traded with a Lamia demon till later on. And no because a few things go on like being sucked by a Tornado and helping the Dragooner family before they " knock down on Paramecia's door " Plus Paramecia is assumed dead and then Leon takes over and then Leon stands down and Paramecia takes over again, and then those who have died take on Paramecia's spirit in Heaven. I don't remember Luke and Leia taking on Vader's spirit in Heaven but okay... maybe we watched a different Star Wars ?

They're mostly coincidental than anything. But I just want to get the point across that it isn't just FFXII that evokes a vague impression of George Lucas's franchise at times.

Square loves Star Wars so I don't know why we are having this game is more like Star Wars debate, because most Final Fantasy games have a Star Wars reference or feels like Star Wars here or there.

As did Vayne. He orchestrated a ruse to pin the blame of regicide on an innocent man to publicly absolve himself and the empire of having their hands stained with the blood of a king - in the hopes of smoothly annexing Dalmasca. He also ordered the complete burning and sacking of Mt. Bur Omisace, while displaying his ruthlessness by turning on a Judge for questioning his self-appointed authority and motives. It's simply wrong to imply that Vayne did nothing but sit around and talk.

That's because he did just sit and around a talk. He was no threat to the heroes or even really Vaan whatsoever. If Dr Cid was the lead baddie then okay, I'll give FFXII some points but he wasn't. Instead we had Vayne who was dull as anything and did more behind work than anything. It's not like Kefka who was a threat for Terra and the others and even destroyed the world.

Vayne did no " Burning of Nibelheim " or " Moving the three Goddess statues " or " Summoning Bahamut to murder Queen Brahne "

He was more of a dull paperwork guy, some guy that you'll more likely to see at work at a office job than a FF bad guy Did Vayne really come from the same series as the likes of Kefka ? I don't believe it.

Ah, yes. Genesis. One of the worst villains ever in gaming. It takes a lot of hardcore dislike with a good explanation required to put Vayne below him.

Damn straight !

Given they just threw FFV on the itunes store without remaking it (though they did ruin the sprites) and Square-Enix's reluctance to support 3DS releases in the west? It's becoming increasingly unlikely. Furthermore, the company they used to remake FFIII and FFIV - Matrix Software - has gone on to focus on mobile games.

Shh a FF V and FF VI fangirl can dream.

It's okay. Toni, Martel, LukeLC and I will just be in our little corner.

Why ? The FF XII fans will get the FF XII HD re-boot and the FFV/ FF VI fans will get nothing expect maybe a cellphone game. You guys should be cheering that you like a game with some support from fans and the main company. SE looks upon FF V and FF VI like some kind of Black Death disease, and FF VIII too.

As far as I am concerned, Ashe is the main protagonist.

Agree. She should of been the main protagonist. But maybe since that Lightning is doing so well hopefully they won't be so shy to put a woman in the lead role in the future, hopefully not as aggressive as Lightning. Ashe annoyed me alot, but at the same time she was ... okay...and pretty tough and strong as a FF lead woman.

 

[Donald Trump]

Yeah George Costaza....you can say all that, doesnt make it true about political and its like you see the uniqueness of FFXII but fixated to see it as a flaw.

You are quite right, just because i say something does not make it true, I am neither omnipotent nor am I omniscient. However, you do need to support your claim. I'm fairly sure I've shown that the story isn't political.
I also don't think having a boring story and useless characters is in anyway unique.

To me its the "true" story. Rather than the "heroic seemingly humble" story

I assume by true you mean realistic, rather than the events of FFXII actually happened. I have no problems with a realistic plot. For argument's sake we'll say FFXII has a realistic plot, that doesn't change the fact that the plot is boring, unoriginal and has nothing to say.

 

[Jacqui]

the towns are fine. actually some of my favourite parts of the game. maybe deserts are supposed to be kind of empty feeling. after reading through the posts here and playing again after dinner i am thinking that it is not so much that i am feeling some thing wrong with it. more that i am feeling some thing different about it and i am having a longer time then usual getting used to it :x

does that even makes sense? ><

This makes complete sense. The first time I played this game, I hardly got anywhere. I HATED the style of the battle system, I just didn't get it at all. I sold the game, then about a year later I saw it cheap, so decided to try it again. I really got into it that time, and now it's one of my favourites. Some people felt the game was so bad that they didn't bother getting very far, some abandoned it for a while and came back, and some perservered, but it was still a very mixed bag...there are many people who think it's a terrible game, and it's not just those who didn't give it a chance- there are many people who slogged through it, hating it all the way through but determined to give it a chance to see if it got any better for them.

I did really dislike it when I first played it, and it was my fourth FF game (after VIII, X-2 then X), so I wasn't quite so attached to the turn-based battle system as some others, but I left it for a while. I think that was important to my enjoyment of the game, the fact that I left it and then gave it another chance. It won't work for everyone- you can't make yourself like something. I think it's a difficult game to get into to begin with though, especially as you've only got Vaan in the beginning, and although I don't have the hatred of him that some people do (which is understandable tbh), I still think he's a little turd. I think that once you start learning about the other members of your party (once you get them) it gets more interesting. I don't actually think there is ONE main character in this game, I think you have to take the team as a whole, and that's one of the things that I didn't do to begin with...

 

[GabrielleTheLost]

Well this is weird. I finally got my PS2 hooked up again and started playing FF 12 from where I left off (sometime just after the mine tunnels with the big electro sucking spider thing?) i don't remember what the boss looked like exactly. And wow, my opinion is actually quite a bit different in a good way I mean... hmm. Once I get my TV fixed so it wont start making an annoying buzz after being on for 30 minutes i might actually get to finish the game >>

 

[Ultimaja]

I wonder sometimes what standard some use to gauge FFXII.

The gameplay was good, the story was good, the characters were good, and the game was otherwise more then complete.

There are quarrels about every individual department in this game, but I notice the subject of character development is the most common.
I found every character unique and interesting. At the same time, I took into account that the game isn't about personal stories, it's about war.

Complete biographies of the characters is not needed to make Final Fantasy great. Honestly, after six continuous games chock full of just that, I found XII to be a great change of pace for a bit.