This game tries so hard at open world exploration and fails miserably

[L]

I mean, when you play a game like that... Choosing your path is a big part of the appeal in those games. But here, we are fenced in and forced to travel the road many times. And a lot of times I see where work has been done to prevent Noctis from using his abilities to get through obstacles. Why does he even have it if he can't use it? Lol pointless.

Just... it's the 20th century and we're still walking through a maze of falling floors instead of jumping off the ledge by the entrance to get to our destination. Some of you may or may not have played Mass Effect, but there is a part of the game where there is a collapsed column you COULD JUST SIMPLY JUMP OVER but because you are playing an RPG, the solution is to make a bomb and BLOW THE COLUMN TO BITS. same thing here

who lets these people design video games <_<

 

[Notorious]

I noticed that too, for an open world game a lot of weird things are just limited for whatever reason. I think it's just a learning process as they haven't actually made a modern open world game before, plus with a rushed production for this version of the game they probably just cut corners to speed things up. One of my biggest complaints is you can't swim in the calmest of waters. Kind of breaks immersion when we're back in the early 2000's and you can't even cross a small stream. Or like you said you can't jump over a small ledge and land where you want to go while the majority of the game Noctis can zoom up and fight enemies who are FLYING. Little brick divider though? Impassable.

I'm thinking they need to research more modern RPG's and give their ideas a spin. This ain't the early 2000's anymore.

 

[Thule Esperada]

A strong narrative and open world design don't go hand in hand, and the FF series has always TRIED to be story driven.
In my opinion, they should have gone for a free roam style with new areas becoming available as the story progresses similar to XII you know.

 

[ZaXo Ken'Ichi]

I agree with Thule here. Open worlds and deep narrative don't mesh well, so this was their attempt at reigning in players to try and keep things more focused. That... and I'm sorry but you have no idea how complex and expensive something as simple as adding swimming mechanics would be. When you're talking about open world games, you're talking about complex systems stacked on top of complex systems, on top of complex systems, etc. This is why -as much as I dislike it- games like Elder Scrolls started taking out bits like spell creation, or Acrobatics. It's why Dark Souls has a very, very restrictive jump mechanic... and it's not even an open world game. Design is largely about creating restrictions to focus and improve your main design goals, and that's doubly true for open world games. So it's smart to reflect on why a choice might have been made, because it might be far more logical than you initially realize. These are not stupid people; even when they're blinded to silly mistakes they might make, these are still experts who don't make giant decisions for no reason.

And beyond that, there can be different levels of open worlds. Not all of them have to be as free as GTA in order to be quality. I personally haven't formed a full opinion on how this game handles the open world. But so far it's not really a problem for me.

 

[Linnaete]

A strong narrative and open world design don't go hand in hand, and the FF series has always TRIED to be story driven.
In my opinion, they should have gone for a free roam style with new areas becoming available as the story progresses similar to XII you know.

This.

I can't attest as to the actual quality of FFXV's open world as I haven't actually played the game, but I can bring up games such as Xenoblade Chronicles and how it handled its overworld design. Though a Wii game, Xenoblade's multiple zones are impressively vast in size and at times offer a degree of verticality, so you have this sense of handcrafted level design on top of these sizeable areas. Players are free to hop off the beaten track (and you can in a very literal sense, because Xenoblade allows a player to leap to their doom where otherwise you expect an invisible wall!) and discover optional secret areas if they so wish. The best part is, none of these things come at the expense of a competently told linear narrative, and the game still manages to offer plentiful variety with regards to the looks, atmosphere and design of each and every zone.

FFXV from what I have seen (and feel free to correct me so) is strongest when it comes to dungeons, but its explorable overworld simply consists of deserts, ponds, hillbilly Americana little villages, plains, forests, one mountain, and a rather modest Havana and Venice. It looks so glaringly limited in terms of scope and the imagination. If the second continent was originally envisioned to be explorable, its loss has quite the reverberation effect, because I would certainly be disappointed if this unremarkable chunk of Lucis is all I have.

If FFXV hadn't been designed to be an open world game with a car, I can only imagine what they could have done instead with a more FFXII or Xenoblade-like world design philosophy. Yes, have some Lucis with Lestallum. Then have an Altissia greater in scope with the surrounding lands available as a zone of their own. Then instead of being confined to a train for nearly all of the journey towards Niflheim on the second continent, have them be zones. One can be Cartanica. Then Tenebrae. One can be the snowy wastelands surrounding the giant deceased corpse of Shiva. Gralea can have its own zone instead of solely a long, corridor-ridden Chapter 13. The ensuing World of Ruin can reuse the Lucis zone(s) and finally, Insomnia gets a more noble treatment than a simple road and a plaza populated by overpowered monsters.

 

[Notorious]

I'm totally fine with no swimming mechanic, just give us a reason as to WHY we can't have that. Have a party member comment "I'm not getting my clothes wet for this." or something, ANYTHING over an invisible wall. Invisible walls are simply bad game design and just outdated now a days. I can understand that it would be expensive to implement other options but game making is expensive, if they want to have a game that stands out the work has to be put in. I am perfectly cool with restricting open world segments when it actually makes sense instead of not being able to walk through a certain spot because a ghost is holding me back haha.

Place a higher barricade, make it make sense for Noctus to not be able to cross that small gap when he's able to warp around everywhere or jump really high in the air like he's capable of. Even if it's just a small write off explanation such as the party members can't do that so Noctus waits around for them. Anything is better than simply putting a wall you can't see there or having a message pop up saying you shall not pass. There are much more creative ways to limit movement and where players can go is all I'm getting at.

 

[L]

I'm sorry but you have no idea how complex and expensive something as simple as adding swimming mechanics would be.

you can swim around vesperpool with your chocobos

its already in the game rofl

So it's smart to reflect on why a choice might have been made, because it might be far more logical than you initially realize. These are not stupid people; even when they're blinded to silly mistakes they might make, these are still experts who don't make giant decisions for no reason.

you could swim in ocarina of time and look how that worked out for zelda: older than some peoples kids and still way ahead of the game in comparison to a majority of titles in it's genre, one of the best games of all time. revolutionary for it's time even.

I really don't buy the argument that you can't have a strong narrative and open world in a successful game or that it's very expensive. Tales has been doing this for years and it's been a part of final fantasy for.... gosh, well before they started getting lazy and cutting corners in every new title.

I'm totally fine with no swimming mechanic, just give us a reason as to WHY we can't have that. Have a party member comment "I'm not getting my clothes wet for this." or something, ANYTHING over an invisible wall. Invisible walls are simply bad game design and just outdated now a days. I can understand that it would be expensive to implement other options but game making is expensive, if they want to have a game that stands out the work has to be put in. I am perfectly cool with restricting open world segments when it actually makes sense instead of not being able to walk through a certain spot because a ghost is holding me back haha.

yeah like if theres a wall in place of that open ledge ok makes sense but its just lazy and unimaginative to just block it off with an invisible wall <_<

 

[L]

this is just lazy as fuck and doesn't belong in a mothership title so recently released

it's like showing up to a car show with dings in your body panels and a missing side mirror lol

 

[Notorious]

That video hurts to watch LOL

There's so many more examples of that invisible wall bullshit. I loved the game but little things like that are so obnoxious, hope they get it right next go around.

 

[AlexkOuellet]

It's funny because every single time I'm playing and exploring the massive world, something happens that violently yanks me out of the experience.

I'd love to start by saying that despite the game's flaws I still love it. I loved Noctis and his crew, I loved exploring the world and I loved every minute I spent killing hunt targets or listening to old FF music in the Regalia. With that being said, however...

Well, when you're walking around a big landscape, and you get trapped behind a tree with a branch that's taller than you and Noctis won't duck down to go through it... It sucks. When you try to go somewhere you should clearly have access to, just for an invisible wall to stop you, yeah it sucks.

I try not to focus on that stuff though. This was their first open world FF (excluding the MMO's, but a completely different subject in my opinion) and I'll take it as is. Could have been a lot worse right? If they choose to continue with this style of flagship Final Fantasy games I have to believe the next one will be superior to this one.

 

[ZaXo Ken'Ichi]

you can swim around vesperpool with your chocobos

its already in the game rofl



you could swim in ocarina of time and look how that worked out for zelda: older than some peoples kids and still way ahead of the game in comparison to a majority of titles in it's genre, one of the best games of all time. revolutionary for it's time even.

I really don't buy the argument that you can't have a strong narrative and open world in a successful game or that it's very expensive. Tales has been doing this for years and it's been a part of final fantasy for.... gosh, well before they started getting lazy and cutting corners in every new title.



yeah like if theres a wall in place of that open ledge ok makes sense but its just lazy and unimaginative to just block it off with an invisible wall <_<

1. If you actually understood what was going on when chocobos swim, you'd realize that's a parlor trick, and wouldn't work the same way with your main party. It's also very different allowing players to swim while in a mode (riding a chocobo) where they already lose 90% of their control options, and in a mode where they have access to a huge pool of mechanics that could conflict with the act of swimming. Again, you have no idea what you're even talking about.

2. Ocarina's swimming was novel for it's time, but it not only has huge issues, but was designed around a significantly smaller pool of mechanics. It didn't become well crafted until Majora's Mask... and they've since stepped back to the same way they did it in Ocarina.

3. Tales having a good narrative? Haha! Now I know you have no idea what you're talking about. Also, Tales games (from what I've played) are less of an open world, and more open zones like nearly every other J-RPG. They also don't have to deal with battles taking place in the overworld either, since you're whisked off to a battle screen. Again, this is far more complex than you're giving them credit for. I always love it when people crap all over design without actually knowing anything about it, or stopping to think about the decisions that were made.

I'm not saying that XV doesn't have issues with it's open world structure. But what I am saying is that you're just picking things you don't like, and calling it bad design. You're using astonishingly broad strokes that are unfair to the work in question.

@Notorious Invisible walls are not bad design, nor are they outdated. They have their place depending on the game. Does it seem like XV needs as many as it uses? No. Are they always used in the proper place/way? Nah. But it's not an outdated tool.

 

[L]

That video hurts to watch LOL

There's so many more examples of that invisible wall bullshit. I loved the game but little things like that are so obnoxious, hope they get it right next go around.

yeah all of the mountain of stone/fence/wall of trees shit really annoyed me in this game

i just... dont see how they managed to fuck that up. like FFXIV hasn't been out and developing content for their own game for... gosh. I don't even know when 1.0 launched.

It's funny because every single time I'm playing and exploring the massive world, something happens that violently yanks me out of the experience.

I'd love to start by saying that despite the game's flaws I still love it.

I mean, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to say it's an awful game; I've played it for over 50 hours. It's just incredibly cringeworthy. I'd be hard pressed to sympathize even if developers themselves gave me an excuse for the presence of something like this in a game released in 2016.

It is a very glaring flaw.

Exploring Altissa could give someone an anuerysm <_< The only place i hate more in the final fantasy universe is Academia 400 AF and even then now that I think about it, it's up in the air between the two. Load screen after load screen after load screen to confusing city exploration with invisible wall after invisible wall. Feels awful.

 

[L]

and wouldn't work the same way with your main party. It's also very different allowing players to swim while in a mode (riding a chocobo) where they already lose 90% of their control options, and in a mode where they have access to a huge pool of mechanics that could conflict with the act of swimming. Again, you have no idea what you're even talking about.

it's an option in many games but the point is not that it is not an option for party members but that chocobos can swim in most places, but not in a few for no forseeable reason. so like i said, incredibly lazy.

3. Tales having a good narrative? Haha! Now I know you have no idea what you're talking about.

Tales of the Abyss, Symphonia and Vesperia are better than any Final Fantasy game released post-FFX if you wanna fight about it

But what I am saying is that you're just picking things you don't like, and calling it bad design.

probably because it is

If you see a dead deer on the side of the interstate do you call it bambi or roadkill?

 

[FinalxxSin]

Gotta love when people try to push an opinion as fact.

 

[ZaXo Ken'Ichi]

it's an option in many games but the point is not that it is not an option for party members but that chocobos can swim in most places, but not in a few for no forseeable reason. so like i said, incredibly lazy.

You were just talking about how it is a problem that it's not an option for party members! Get your point straight As far as the chocobos, I'd agree more or less. Just yesterday I got stuck on my way up a mountain with hot springs at the bottom. Apparently despite them being no more than ankle deep on a human, the chocobos don't like to go in the hot spring water. Problem? Apparently this only applies when you're riding them. I grabbed the treasure in the hot spring, then immediately called my chocobo... who ran up to me while I was still in the hot spring. When I got on him, I was suddenly stuck IN the hot spring, and it would no longer allow me to dismount.

Also, yes, the solid trees are a huge annoyance when they are clustered up really thick.

Tales of the Abyss, Symphonia and Vesperia are better than any Final Fantasy game released post-FFX if you wanna fight about it

Lol, not even close, but I'm not going to argue about it. My main point was that you're conflating two entirely different designs with each other to make a point; open world, and a world consisting of zones. Very different. As such, Tales games (again from what I've played) are in no way a good example to defend 'proper' open worlds, because they are not open worlds.

probably because it is

If you see a dead deer on the side of the interstate do you call it bambi or roadkill?

Nope, sorry, but likes and dislikes are not the same as good or bad design. Good and bad design depends on the goals of the game and it's developers. If you're incompatible with the game, that's your problem, not the game's. I really, really hate playing Tetris, but that doesn't mean it isn't a masterpiece in puzzle game design. If I hated turn-based games, that doesn't mean that every turn-based game is a bad game. I am no God. Neither are you.

Really what it comes down to is that you're massively overselling how bad these issues are by dealing in black and white, perfect or garbage rhetoric when dealing with the modern titles... and then pretending earlier games you use as examples or defend are perfect. Which they very much are not.

Apologies for being so sort of 'sharp tongued' about this, but I really, really can't deal with another five years of crybabies talking about how much better things were in the 'good old days'. I'm tired of hearing people do nothing but talk sh*t on the modern titles, completely ignoring the many forward thinking decisions in them. They're not perfect, but neither are our precious classics. In fact, most of the classic titles are largely a mess (I love that mess, but that doesn't change the facts).

 

[L]

You were just talking about how it is a problem that it's not an option for party members! Get your point straight

you made your own assumptions

Lol, not even close, but I'm not going to argue about it. My main point was that you're conflating two entirely different designs with each other to make a point; open world, and a world consisting of zones. Very different.

its okay to be wrong

but like it or not the games have a very unhindered or at least a respectable and easily accessible level of exploration for their genre and time. nothing that felt like it shouldn't be there in any of the games.

Nope, sorry, but likes and dislikes are not the same as good or bad design. Good and bad design depends on the goals of the game and it's developers. If you're incompatible with the game, that's your problem, not the game's. I really, really hate playing Tetris, but that doesn't mean it isn't a masterpiece in puzzle game design. If I hated turn-based games, that doesn't mean that every turn-based game is a bad game. I am no God. Neither are you.

except you are comparing apples to oranges

you'd probably hate tetris even more than normal think it was poorly developed if you couldn't move to places you should clearly be able to, if it had an arbitrary dodge function that is never explained and only seems to work half of the time, 13 useless arms to collect that will never see the light of endgame and barely saw action in the main story that are now being hoarded as stat sticks because it was someones bright idea to take these mediocre pieces of shit and make them work against you in more ways than one, winning boss fights just by hoarding potions and charging armiger, just leaving ignis and prompto dead 80% of the time because they are a waste of supplies no matter what you equip them with etc

I mean at least Ignis has an excuse... He uses daggers. But Prompto uses a Gun... and he's always in melee range.

I could go on and on and on but if there is anything good to take away from this game it's this bittersweet taste that's a mix of complete disappointment but the strange satisfaction that you're probably going to put 80hrs into the game anyway and what it means for the advancement of the series

Really what it comes down to is that you're massively overselling how bad these issues are by dealing in black and white, perfect or garbage rhetoric when dealing with the modern titles... and then pretending earlier games you use as examples or defend are perfect. Which they very much are not.

the fact that they were made almost 20 years ago and are on the same level as a lot of titles released today speaks to how unambitious people in the industry are today. cut a corner here and there, hype a title up, release it, get sales, move on to another project.

 

[ZaXo Ken'Ichi]

but like it or not the games have a very unhindered or at least a respectable and easily accessible level of exploration for their genre and time. nothing that felt like it shouldn't be there in any of the games.

I'll give you that. But that's also because the Tales games essentially had a great idea, and then have been doing nothing but making the same game with that idea, over and over again. As far as exploration goes, nothing feels like it shouldn't be there, because there's essentially nothing to it. Your options while exploring are to run around, and to initiate scripted interactions with things like chests or NPCs. Not exactly much to it, and therefore it's far more easy to make feel complete. Once again I say that you're disregarding the reality of the situation for these modern devs, just to make a point.

except you are comparing apples to oranges

you'd probably hate tetris even more than normal think it was poorly developed if you couldn't move to places you should clearly be able to, if it had an arbitrary dodge function that is never explained and only seems to work half of the time, 13 useless arms to collect that will never see the light of endgame and barely saw action in the main story that are now being hoarded as stat sticks because it was someones bright idea to take these mediocre pieces of shit and make them work against you in more ways than one, winning boss fights just by hoarding potions and charging armiger, just leaving ignis and prompto dead 80% of the time because they are a waste of supplies no matter what you equip them with etc

How exactly am I comparing apples to oranges? All I'm saying is that my bias doesn't dictate the quality of a product for everyone, whether I'm using Tetris as an example or not. I suppose a better example would come down to the value of a game. If you and I both bought the same game for the same price, and you thought it was worth that while I thought it wasn't, those are subjective feelings. People constantly talk about value proposition as if it's fact. But it's not. If it was, that would literally mean a game gets better designed, or better looking, or runs better as it gets cheaper. But it doesn't; it's the same game no matter what price it's at. How you perceive it is what changes, and therefore what it's worth is up to the individual. What I'm getting at is that you have largely been doing nothing but pushing your opinions as the truth for everyone. Have your opinions. But don't push them as fact, so that you can spin the black and white narrative of your preferred design being perfect and everything else being garbage.

You also refuse to keep in mind that your problems may not happen for others. For example, I felt the dodge function was more than adequately explained (then again, I seem to be the only person on Earth who actually did the tutorial). I also feel that it works exactly as intended, and I have only had the dodge refuse to come out when I'm in an un-cancel-able animation... which again is clearly as intended. I also don't necessarily agree that the arms are useless. I think they offer an alternative playestyle, and are more useful in certain types of strategies; high risk, high reward strategies. Although I haven't used them enough to confirm. I also didn't have a problem with Ignis and Prompto being easily killed, and actually found them much more useful than Gladio because of their Techniques. I knew Prompto's low health would be a problem, so I bolstered it with Ascension abilities and accessories. Strategy in an RPG? How about that! Lol, jokes aside, the point is that I didn't have that problem, so you don't speak for everyone.

However, I did have issues with things like characters occasionally still dying while I'm using Techniques (all other attacks are supposed to stop when you use a Technique). Then I'd have to watch their danger bar drop like a rock because you can't enter the items menu while using a Technique. The map constantly opened when I would try to permanently lock on, and the camera is largely horrendous while you are locked on. All of these sorts of problems are important to bring up, but it's also important to ask how much they matter to the goals of the game, how much they may impact the experience for a multitude of players, and whether they may have been caused by your own mistakes/actions. If you're going to try and claim a game is poorly made in one way or another (rather than just saying you didn't like some aspects of it personally) the goal should be to assess the product fairly, not to just find reasons to rain hell upon it. You'd want the same done for something you created your self, no? These people spend years of their lives, and hundreds of thousands of man hours... sleeping under their desks for weeks straight during crunch, toiling away at realistically small issues that people may blow up into 'astronomical failures'. They're passionate about their work, and they're trying to make entertainment for you to enjoy. The least you could do is respect that.

the fact that they were made almost 20 years ago and are on the same level as a lot of titles released today speaks to how unambitious people in the industry are today. cut a corner here and there, hype a title up, release it, get sales, move on to another project.

Game design isn't a singular road where time automatically means games should inherently be better in every way, as long as they're newer. As games get newer, expectations for many aspects get higher. There are tons of massively difficult and time consuming requirements in games today that you're completely ignoring as a way to call these games 'lazy and unambitious'. Designers today have to deal with many expectations that devs 20 years ago did not. The requirement for better translations, higher detail models, more advanced shader layers, much more complex/direct translations of concepts, optimization for loading times (and generally just much more demanding performance requirements), significantly more complex animation, lighting, basic control, basic interactivity, sound design, balance, dealing with new conceptual expectations like 'immersion', 'kinaesthetics', 'flow'... there are so many things today that require a level of work absolutely unheard of 20 years ago; it's not right to throw all of that under the bus so that you can claim this mechanical idea or that mechanical idea worked better in an older title.

To be fair game design has evolved, and -while the workload today is objectively way higher today- older designers had to deal with problems that are unheard of now. No third party engines, huge iteration wait times, direct management of hardware systems being a requirement through hex editors, hugely limited storage space, limited artistic expression due to lack of resolution and power, etc. The point is, that if anything is comparing apples to oranges, it's comparing development of titles from 20 years ago straight across with development today, and using that as a way to call modern devs lazy. They are anything but. Again, you clearly don't understand just how much of a cascading effect even something as simple as adding a jump command can have on all of a game's systems, particularly in an open world. If you did -after you recovered from the heart attack it would've given you- you would be talking about these things in a very different way.

Again... game design is all about realizing where your budget of time and money should go. More and more of that is automatically taken up by things like graphics from the get-go today. So just because Grand Theft Auto V does swimming/water really well, doesn't mean every single future open world game needs to meet that same bar, or even include swimming. That's a waste of development efforts in many games, and it's why games like Watch Dogs totally botched water; people like you told them they had to include boats and swimming and such to be relevant, but since they couldn't put much effort into making it work (because it wasn't important to the game's goals at large), it turned into the ultimate safe haven against the police, completely breaking the game's criminal system. That entire game was built upon the types of unjustified expectations you're putting upon them, and it crumbled under that weight, because too much time was spent on these expectations, rather than the things that really mattered to the title. Watch Dogs 2? Ignored a lot of these terrible expectations, and was infinitely better for it.

And that doesn't even begin to get into the conversation of how such expectations actually cause the industry to become more boring, more unoriginal, and more homogenized, by putting it in a consistently smaller and smaller box. The longer that checklist of pointless requirements gets, the less time they have to spend being original. Shadow of the Colossus defied these open world (and general game design) expectations we had build up, and it was an astonishing, original experience precisely because of that. Now, it's an influencer. Same story with Dark Souls, and even Final Fantasy back when ATB was introduced. You're unintentionally building your own invisible walls for these developers to try and find a way around. Let these devs design their own games -rather than being a backseat designer-, and then judge the game based on how well it hit it's goals.

EDIT: Also, yes. It's a long response. That's how I roll, because as a creator myself, I actually genuinely care about subjects like this.

 

[L]

You also refuse to keep in mind that your problems may not happen for others. For example, I felt the dodge function was more than adequately explained (then again, I seem to be the only person on Earth who actually did the tutorial). I also feel that it works exactly as intended, and I have only had the dodge refuse to come out when I'm in an un-cancel-able animation... which again is clearly as intended. I also don't necessarily agree that the arms are useless. I think they offer an alternative playestyle, and are more useful in certain types of strategies; high risk, high reward strategies. Although I haven't used them enough to confirm. I also didn't have a problem with Ignis and Prompto being easily killed, and actually found them much more useful than Gladio because of their Techniques. I knew Prompto's low health would be a problem, so I bolstered it with Ascension abilities and accessories. Strategy in an RPG? How about that! Lol, jokes aside, the point is that I didn't have that problem, so you don't speak for everyone.

i think i have footage of me killing nalfgar (level 120 monster) at lv 75 and the consistency of the dodge function was dubious at best. and no i wasnt really expecting anyone to stay alive for that fight but me but still surprised how much of a chicken wuss gladio turned into

dude went full retard on me. or like... full prompto

it's never explained if attacks from the back will still hit you or if it's effectiveness changes for better or worse based on level gap (or maybe monster rank?) the same way that parry probably is

However, I did have issues with things like characters occasionally still dying while I'm using Techniques (all other attacks are supposed to stop when you use a Technique). Then I'd have to watch their danger bar drop like a rock because you can't enter the items menu while using a Technique. The map constantly opened when I would try to permanently lock on, and the camera is largely horrendous while you are locked on.

oh god dont even get me started on the camera. that + confuse and how it always seems to drop target and your weapons start switching to useless royal arms omg whoever managed this is probably an asshole lol

big mobs like Iron Giant are a nightmare because you have to kill everything around them just so you can hit them >_> kinda sad when 3 iron giants and a naga is way harder than the main boss of the dungeon

EDIT: Also, yes. It's a long response. That's how I roll, because as a creator myself, I actually genuinely care about subjects like this.

it dont really amount to much lol

its a lot of words to use to say "im defending a hype train". I mean if anyones mad I'm calling it like it is, maybe I should reiterate that the game is not bad. But it is simply disappointing in many ways.

Take for example... the type F. It took more effort to put in a mechanic that could cause you to wreck and blow up the car despite landing it (which unfortunately i have no footage of because whenever this occurs the ps4 will not allow me to save video clips) with no trouble resulting in a frustrating game over than it would have just to give us a normal airship. The game is nice, but it is disappointingly rough.

 

[ZaXo Ken'Ichi]

I'm not really defending the hype train. I had no hype for this game. Was I excited? Yeah. But I don't get hyped for games, because that's how you end up disappointed by expectations that were unfair to begin with. I just like being fair to the creators of the work I'm playing.

Parry and dodge are both static mechanics. The difficulty of a parry is based on the attack you're trying to parry; the tutorial makes this clear. And the dodge universally works as long as you hold down the button, barring you being in an un-cancel-able animation, or you being ganged up on by a multitude of enemies attacking fractions of a second from each other.

The camera is exactly why I don't lock on unless I'm warping. There's no reason to since Noctis auto-targets anyway. The lock on (and by extension the camera) are easily the most poorly implemented thing in the game.

Haven't gotten the Type-F yet, so I can't comment.

Basically, if you think the game is 'nice' but disappointing, then why not treat it that way? I'll never understand the vitriolic language people use if they freaking like something. Why deal in such harsh language if things are generally to your liking?

 

[L]

I'm not really defending the hype train. I had no hype for this game. Was I excited? Yeah. But I don't get hyped for games, because that's how you end up disappointed by expectations that were unfair to begin with. I just like being fair to the creators of the work I'm playing.

i guess you can get that way when you have played games that were made to be played just about every day for the last 10 years

Parry and dodge are both static mechanics. The difficulty of a parry is based on the attack you're trying to parry; the tutorial makes this clear. And the dodge universally works as long as you hold down the button, barring you being in an un-cancel-able animation, or you being ganged up on by a multitude of enemies attacking fractions of a second from each other.

plenty of times i have only been holding down the dodge button and standing still or even just walking and been hit

Basically, if you think the game is 'nice' but disappointing, then why not treat it that way? I'll never understand the vitriolic language people use if they freaking like something. Why deal in such harsh language if things are generally to your liking?

because this is an unacceptable presentation (especially considering this game was first announced like a decade ago as Versus FFXIII but is two steps back from any Kingdom Hearts title) and the lack of effort put into delivering a quality product is very clear despite being sold at a quality price. It's obvious much of the game was rushed.

if the effort in presentation of major titles is going down, then the price tags need to go down - not up. this isn't a spinoff, it's not a gameboy title, this is a main series title of an established franchise. It's representative of your brand and all your company has to offer.

If I had to vent my biggest gripes, they are as follows:

-you spend 80 hours holding L1 despite the fact dodge has more mood swings than my ex
-ignis and prompto constantly need to be babysat
- "secret dungeons" that are more like "secret anthills" than postgame content
-fuckin invisible walls everywhere
-I never found a controller configuration that felt comfortable or worked for me. I've had a lot of trouble activating armiger and armiger chains and admittedly it is difficult to ever find a comfortable point to dodge roll. It's the 20th century - remapping keys should be an option if you are going to make them this awkward.
-camera as stated
-navigating lock on is harder than watching my mates trying to score at the bar sometimes
-super long load times