FFXIII-2 Understanding the setting for FFXIII-2 (possible spoilers)

[Mystical_Gaming]

Possible spoilers ... but this is mainly talking about the beginning of the game so most of it should be common knowledge from just the opening scenes of the game and having played FFXIII previously.

So many have talked about the ending for the game but what I wanted to discuss is the beginning. The setup for FFXIII-2 ... primarily how did our dear Lightning get to Valhalla? This is something I still don't quite fully understand (even after playing all 3 games to their completion) and maybe one of you FF experts out there that is more knowledgeable on the mythos and fabulous nova crystallis can explain it to me from a stroyline point of view how it happened. I know the final result is "they wanted to make another FFXIII so this is what they did" but hopefully Lightning getting to Valhalla makes more sense than it seems to me.

Lets rewind the time back to the beginning of FFXIII where it all began. Lightning is on a journey to save and find her dear sister Serah. In a suicidal and risky challenge she along with others are caught into the mess of the fal'cie that curse them until they complete whatever task they desired them to complete. In the end they bravely fight through and conquer redeeming themselves with the curse lost. Lightning is reunited with Serah and all is happy and well.

FFXIII-2 comes out and we find out Lightning is now somehow a guardian and protector of this goddess Etro. Later in the game Serah meets Lightning and she explains how she got there. Apparently from what she says at the end of FFXIII she wasn't really there and fell into a hole/void where Etro wanted her. Etro showed Light all the pain and suffering and Lightning obliges to be the guardian. What made me mad here was how Etro essentially 'stole' Claire and her life. Not only this but puts the pain of Etro on Lightning and makes her cry. This was a really emotional scene and while is was quite beautiful to see Lightning cry I was also very upset. I took a screenshot with my capture card to illustrate the scene I am talking about (I record all my gameplay from whatever I am playing so I don't miss anything and can re-watch cutscenses over and over):

I was upset because Etro basically was making Lighting an unwilling slave almost? I know it seemed like lightning was 'volunteering' but really, she was trapped in Valhalla ... what a wonderful life to live! So did I get this right or have I missed something here? Basically the whole setup for FFXIII-2 and Lightning Returns is because Etro wanted Lightning and Etro could have picked someone else but wanted Lightning instead? This is mainly why when Lightning Returns came out and I saw the after credits scene I was happy (for those who know what I was talking about). FFXIII-2 we barely got to play as Lightning and to make matters worse our character is trapped in some odd world by a goddess we don't understand really.

This brings me to my last point. Was this really necessary? Couldn't there have been a different storyline instead that still included great peril and put Serah on a journey but didn't have to make Lightning more than a regular human? The role reversal we see in FFXIII-2 was unexpected no doubt (Light goes after Serah in FFXIII, Serah goes after Light in FFXIII-2) but I feel it was not necessary if they really wanted to make a FFXIII-2 game. These are really the gripes I had with FFXIII-2 were more it's story side and not so much the gameplay (save a few sections). I had no issues with this whole concept of gods and fighting for or against them in this trilogy. It made some hellish bosses and frighting foes that felt invincible but I didn't see any reason Lightning had be become a guardian than savior as it was. I liked her as a regular person. Thats what made her a special character to me. Thankfully Lightning Returns fixes this in the end but from when I first played FFXIII-2 this is something that always bothered me about this game.

Now I know many hate FFXIII but let's please refrain form comments like "the game sucked of course the story doesn't make sense!". I am hoping someone that at least enjoyed the series or maybe didn't enjoy it but got what they were trying to convey could explain to me what went down. I totally agree a lot of the story in the FFXIII was overwhelming at times and really felt off the deep end at times but there has to be (hopefully) a better explanation for how Lightning got to where she was.

Thanks for reading, if people enjoyed this in depth analysis/question thread I might make more of other topics I didn't quite understand or wanted to discuss more.

 

[Mr. Revolution]

Before I can delve into the whys and hows of the Final Fantasy XIII trilogy, I first wish to give you a general outline on the main problems facing this compilation. I'm going to assume you're a Western gamer who has had little dealings with the Japanese versions of these games. The difference is crucial because if you're playing a Western copy of FFXIII--regardless of which games out of the series it is--you're only getting half a story.

That's right; you read correctly: only half a story.

Before the initial launch of the first FFXIII, SE posted a novella on its website, free for all Japanese speaking peoples to read. In it, one found the complete prologue to FFXIII that established crucial, fundamental settings and characterizations that were not included or even referenced in any of the games. I don't want to go into any of the main plot points here because I've already posted about this in-depth in another thread, but essentially, you have every right to question the plot for the FFXIII trilogy because you were deprived of all the information necessary to understand just how well developed the story was supposed to have been had the developers not opted to fracture their product.

Now to directly answer your questions: Lightning was indeed swallowed by the earth following the immediate ending of the first game. As everyone smiled, laughed, and cheered at collapse of the Cocoon fal'Cie tyrannical reign, Lightning was swept away into Etro's realm unbeknownst to everyone else. This scene does not occur in either FFXIII nor in FFXIII-2; it, like the prologue to FFXIII, only occurs in a novel that was made free for all Japanese speaking peoples. If you can't read Japanese, tough luck. You can go find some fan translations, but ultimately, SE decided that this crucial turning-point isn't necessary for Western fans to experience or know about. This has always been the case with Square products. Some plot points just fall through cracks for Western fans. Luckily the internet's around to help sort out the muddled mess.

With regards to Etro, pardon the expression, but that "goddess" absolutely tickles me pink. I think the world would've been better off without all her "gifts". She gave the "gift" of foresight to Yule and Serah, killing them both, and then bestowed the gift of omniscience to Lightning, completely undervaluing her character and destroying her essence in the process by making her subservient to the very species of overlord that she had previously sworn to fight against tooth and nail. Etro's "gifts" have caused more harm than good, and you're right to question why Lightning has been dragged into this whole affair without so much as a peep. To put it simply, Lightning is a product of a poorly contrived plot. Now, I am in no way a "hater" of the FFXIII Trilogy; I just believe that that SE was so panicked by the initial backlash, that they didn't think things through enough the second and third times around. They've spent more time trying to placate critics rather than doing what they used to do best: write a good story. What you essentially have, as a result of all the negative critiques (coupled with a stagnant market) is an attempt to tell the FFXIII story three times. So when you see Lightning in FFXIII, she's not the same Lightning in FFXIII-2, nor the same Lightning in FFXIII-3. You get three interpretations of the same character attempting to achieve three different goals.

Of course, you'll get the counter arguments: omniscience changes a person and Lightning has always tried to protect Serah. Whereas these arguments are open-ended enough to potentially be plausible, I nevertheless deem them to be weak. Lightning was a strong character and admirable because of her resolve. By taking away the very fundamental traits that make her strong and admirable, you essentially create a new character altogether. If Lightning no longer fights for her own fate--if she subjects herself immediately after winning the war against subjugation--then she is no longer Lightning. She becomes someone else--a stranger wearing Lightning's face. She can have the same voice, the same face, and even the same weapon, but without the same values, beliefs, and ambition, how can we really say she's the same person?

Here, we're open to the argument: "people change." Indeed they do, but to do a complete 180 in the span of five minutes? I don't think so. It's just not my cup of tea, and I, as a fan of Lightning, don't have to be complacent and just go with the flow. The plot regarding Etro could have been handled better; XIII-3 could have been handled better; the time travel aspect could have been handled better. The fact is, the reason why you have such negativity surrounding the FFXIII Trilogy is because the fans of Final Fantasy--moreso than the fans of any other gaming series--know a poorly structured story when they see one. Since the beginning, Final Fantasy has always been about the story. If the story falls short--if it doesn't suspend your disbelief all throughout and doesn't engage you--there's a problem, and you've spotted one of the largest ones. Etro is seen by many as a cop-out. This supposed benevolent "goddess" just wants to protect humanity, but the journey to achieve that humble end just isn't satisfying or fulfilling. It's horribly convoluted, fractured, and all-around disconcerting. Everything surrounding Lightning, Serah, and Etro could have been handled differently. Nothing had to be this way, to answer your question directly, but we get this plot for any number of reasons. I am not Toriyama, so I can't tell you exactly why Lightning was put through these paces. All I can tell you is that I can think of at least a dozen different ways this trilogy could have played out in order to improve its story, characterization, and even gameplay. Many fans can do the same, and I'm sure even you could think up a plot or two of your own that would make more sense than what we already have.

The bottom line is, however much you think you like--or even love--Lightning's character, you don't know her very well, and that's through no fault of your own. SE, Toriyama, the dev team--they've all done a terrible job producing this game efficiently through the poor dissemination of supplemental materials and through subpar continuity. The story about the fal'Cie and their creation myth is weak and purposefully ambiguous so as to allow them to mold and manipulate it to fit any circumstance. LR has tried to tie everything into a neat little bow with a happy ending in a modern world, but it isn't even remotely satisfying when you stop and think about how bastardized the characters have become in order to reach this end goal. The primary focus of this discussion is Lightning, but don't think that the others are any better off. Snow in particular really takes a nosedive, but that's neither here nor there unless you specifically wish to discuss his inaccuracies.

Lightning was supposed to be a "regular person" to quote you, but this story isn't just a story--it's an investment, one that really cost and tarnished the FF brand. The reason we have a trilogy at all isn't because there was more to Lightning's story; it isn't because she was meant to be the Valkyrie guardian to a goddess; it isn't even because there were loose ends that demanded resolution. The sad, heartbreaking truth is that we had so many sequels for this game for two reasons: one, SE was determined to "fix" all the problems critiques deemed wrong with the first installment; and two, SE's business model has changed from Squaresoft's. They place more emphasis in remakes, re-releases, and sequels than they do novel games due to the time-cost benefits the former has over the latter. Lightning, in the end, was just an innocent bystander who got swept away in all the chaos.

 

[Mystical_Gaming]

Thank you for the detailed explanation. It makes me sad to know I missed so much info about the FFXIII prologue and such info was never available for people who bought the English versions of the games. I would have definitely read such info if it was provided to me beforehand. I pre-ordered FFXIII well in advance so I was set for the adventure and the extra info would have only help provide a more concrete understanding for my experience. I'll definitely read your other post for sure. I'm basically finished with XIII and now in a postmorten if you will looking back at everything I liked, didn't like, and just completely did not understand.

Also you are correct I probably don't know the character Lightning as much as I should or would have liked because they kept changing so much about her. My friend and I both agreed when we picked up FFXIII-2 we didn't like what they did to Lightning. My friend was so disgusted she didn't invest much time into FFXIII-2 (and ultimately she never went back to the game and skipped over to Lightning Returns) and I held nothing against her for feeling that way about the game. I on the other hand figured I bought this game and I always look on the bright side of things (or try to) so I slowly made it though the game. In the end though I had more questions than answers of why Lightning was stuck in the predicament she was in. The sad ending didn't bother me but I feel if they wanted a tragedy it could have been done better.

I don't have anything I really disagree with in what you said. It all makes sense and I know my naivety and ignorance of FF in general plays a role in me not understanding some aspects of FFXIII. At the same time I don't mind being very new to FF. I respect those who have invested way more time into this genre and I know I have limited knowledge so I don't assume to know anything. However with my ignorance I feel it sometimes allows me to experience a lot of the wonder and even if things turn out confusing it allows me to fill in the gaps if the story failed to do so. I don't know if FFXIII was a "3 strikes your out!" type of deal. I wouldn't say they failed utterly in the story but it sure was sloppy at points and like you said it felt like just playing the games were not enough and other info was explained in other mediums not well known. It sucks Lightning and the other characters were innocent bystanders to SE story and design choices. I feel people would have liked the characters and the FFXIII setting more if it was done better like you said. I guess the best way for me to explain myself and why other Lightning fans like her as a character so much is we saw Lighting for what she should have been or were always hoping she would be. I felt for the most part in FFXIII she was portrayed quite well. Strong silent type, not very good at showing her emotions, willing to sacrifice her job (guardian corps), and her life to save someone she cared about. FFXIII-2 is where this all get changed and it really was a shock to see like you explained how people don't just toss aside everything they believe 180 degrees all of the sudden. This is why I fell Etro manipulated Lightning and took her will away. Whether that is what they intended in the story or it just came across that way as I watched the scene where she transformed from person into the Valhalla Armor will probably never be explained.

As far as Etro goes I agree the goddess didn't really seem nice. What happened to Serah sucked just about as much what happened to Lightning. I don't know what they were trying to portray with Etro. Maybe Etro was not meant to be nice but the goddess thinks she is so nice by her 'gifts' yet the humans see those gifts as terrible. I might have to replay FFXIII-2 in the distant future when I have another run at this trilogy and maybe I'll see soem key points I missed. I only ever did play FFXIII-2 once and I was more focused on just getting it over with than trying to understand all the whys and hows of Lightning current predicament. Then we have characters like Cauis who I didn't hate at all. The only thing I hated about him was how many times you had to fight the guy! He seemed like a victim from Etro just as much as Lightning with Yuel dying all the time.

One last thing I have to say about the FFXIII story I suppose is I don't need everything to be explained. Kind of like how in starwars IV, V, and VI the force was accepted. It didn't need to be explained to the audience how it worked, it was just part of that world. The same way some elements in FF games don't need to be explained in some scientific way of how they would really work. So having random gods and such would not be something I need them to explain but more story plots like how Lightning got to where she was just doesn't make sense.I don't know if they were just expecting us all to accept everything they added in without explanation or they got carried away when they tried to 'fix' the trilogy.

After reading everything you posted I've just come to the sad reality that the story of Lighting I really wanted or fans deserved is never really going to be told. The true Lighting I guess is in our minds and probably for the best not going to be in any future video games. My only hope is if they make another strong lead female character they do it right. I enjoy female protagonists a lot. They are hard to come by in games and even before I played FF games I feel they always had a good pair of male and female characters that fans liked. Not like other game series where it's just your typical western dude with the same stereotypical assets. The shame is if a good female character in a lead role does happen everyone will compare her to Lighting and how much 'worse' Lightning was ... I guess this is only fair since SE brought it upon themselves.

 

[Mr. Revolution]

The great thing about Final Fantasy is you can pick up the series from any number and thoroughly enjoy it. Although it's true that I've played more FFs than you, that doesn't mean much in terms of understanding FFXIII since the FF games aren't sequential and the information isn't cumulative. The best way to really understand a Final Fantasy is to play it multiple times. You'll always discover something new if you keep your senses sharp. You'll meet lots of people on here who have played many of the FFs, but don't confuse numbers with with substance. Many people don't understand the games that they've played or the stories that they have witnessed. I can't tell you how many conversations I've had with people who don't like Lightning, Tidus, or Vaan because they simply don't understand the characters. It's quite sad, really. But the fact that you respect Lightning so much demonstrates just how much you've derived from the story, and you can be proud of that.

I remember when they first announced Lightning... I was ecstatic. She showed so much promise, and to have her devolve into Toriyama's dress-up gal just saddens me. She, and all the other FFXIII cast, are great people if you just learn their stories. That's the main problem with XIII: it's as if SE forgot how to tell a compelling story. They neglected to flesh out the character arcs to competition; instead, you get fragmented tidbits that satisfy you very little when you really stop to think about how much you know these characters. My classic question to anyone who claims to understand FFXIII is thus:

Why does Lightning hate Snow?

That is a very difficult and multi-layered question to answer, but most people by default say: "Because Snow is threatening to take away Lightning's little sister." That's only a partially correct answer, and because the game never supplies the full answer, you can never really understand the Lightning-Serah-Snow dynamic. In other FFs, this dynamic would be fully explored, but for whatever crazy reason, SE decided to give all its answers in a story we--as non-Japanese speakers--were not privy to. It's omissions like these that really do the characters an injustice and hamper our understanding of them.

But cheer up; Lightning will always exist in her best form in FFXIII. You don't need the other two games in order to appreciate her, and a spotty fan translation of her Japanese-only story exists on the internet. And hey, if you want a really great female protagonist, FFX is your best bet. Yuna's a great person with a great, fully-explored story. Although you mainly play as Tidus, Yuna is the second lead and is the main focus of the story. She's the closest thing to a -true- heroine protagonist the FF franchise has ever had since FFVI's Terra and FFXIII's Lightning aren't necessarily the central foci of their respective games.

With regards to Etro, she's poorly conceived, but at the same time, she can be seen to fit the typical FF archetype of the grey-shaded character in that she's neither inherently good nor inherently evil. She does terrible things, but with good intentions. This is how many of the antagonists of the FF series behave. What they do comes under moral and ethical scrutiny, but they usually have a good reason for what they're attempting to accomplish. For Etro, it's to save the world; for Vayne (XII), it's to save humanity from a panel of control freaks; for Seymour (X), it's to abolish world suffering. Everyone has their reasons, but the ends don't always justify the means. Etro thinks she's doing everyone a favor, but she's really causing everyone a ton of grief. Makes you wonder just how much of the FFXIII crisis could have been averted if Etro chose to bestow different "gifts" or approached her problems from a completely different angle. But alas, we'll never know.

And hey, no one's saying that every last detail needs explanation. Who cares what the trains run on or what the behemoth mating rituals are on Gran Pulse? But it's necessary to understand the history, trials, and tribulations of your main cast of characters if you're to ever truly appreciate them. Likewise, I think it's important to understand what the socio-political environment is like in Cocoon so we get a more definitive picture of what life is like under fal'Cie rule, rather than seeing everything through the eyes of Public Enemies #1 . If you only ever hold one perspective, you'll never be able to determine right and wrong for yourself. Those two concepts are, after all, subjective. Lightning's resolve would be strengthened if we knew more about the world in which she lives. I don't think it's right to just accept Lightning as the heroine just because her sister was turned to crystal and just because Jihl gave an evil smirk here and there; there's more to it than that, and SE fails to deliver any comprehensive explanation. It's one thing for her to want to save her sister, it's another thing entirely for her to want to topple an entire government.

I feel your pain with regards to Lightning moreso than most, simply because she's a remarkable person who has become the victim of corporate greed. However, unlike a real human being, she can't hire a lawyer to fight back. All she has is fans like you and me to speak on her behalf and set the record straight. She's a strong woman with admirable resolve, but her story stops at XIII. The "Lightning" after that in XIII-2 and LR is someone completely different. You can't expect someone to throw away all their values just like that. There would be some resistance somewhere. She was never the complacent type. To become a Valkyrie that fast with no questions asked isn't Lightning's style. Hell, you'd think half the XIII-2 story would have been her questioning and fighting whatever "gift" of omniscience was bestowed upon her. She's not a god; she's a human. Strong-willed humans like Lightning never except things as true without first fully examining them for validity. She wasn't just manipulated. SE really wants you to believe that the "gift" of omniscience "opened her eyes" to some great truth and that Lightning has made a conscious choice to serve/protect this so-called "goddess". It's utter nonsense and it shows just how desperate Toriyama is for a redo button.

 

[Mystical_Gaming]

Well this has been quite an insightful discussion and I'm glad I asked about this subject. I'm also glad that my feelings towards the plot of FFXIII-2 were not far off from the confusion others felt as well. I feel with the backstory I now know about with Lightning they should have played that more into the story and role it presents of how it shaped Claire to the woman she was in the game. Instead for some reason they decided to give us a will bending goddess that makes Lightning a puppet.

When FFXIII ended and thoughts of a sequel were being rumored I pictured the sequel would take place perhaps months or even years after the events of FFXIII. That much time passes things can go from good to bad, it's possible so I didn't see it far fetched at all. Maybe a new villain or god would threaten the world they just saved and our heroes would be called back into action. Not a time paradox and some alternate Valhalla world like we got though. Do you think SE was heavily influenced by the hatred FFXIII got by linearity and that formed the whole 'paradox' idea? To them to make a game non-linear meant travel through time back and forth? They could have just make the game more free roam and didn't need to make all these alternate realities in my opinion. Of course this is just all speculation and "what could have been" but knowing what I now know it baffles me even more how FFXIII-2 took the route it did. They could even have had chaos in the second game if they wanted and Cauis too but they didn't need to elevate Lightning to a supreme being and Snow didn't have to be some sub par character we only see for a glimpse who's no longer a playable character. I'm sure they could have come up with a creative and plausible reason too why Lightning would care to help out beyond just saving the ones she loved.

 

[Mr. Revolution]

"Hatred" is too strong a word. Most critics that have provided a coherent argument against FFXIII don't profess to hate the game, but rather, express disappointment at certain aspects. You correctly name linearity as one of the main criticisms held by FF fans, though many other FFs can be labeled just as easily as linear, so whether these critics realize it or not, it isn't the linearity alone that truly bothers people. It is, in fact, a feeling of unfulfilled expectations. Usually, a linear FF will mask its linearity behind a thick layer of character exposition, town exploration, and NPC-driven side quests. Most of these aspects are absent in FFXIII, and as we've been discussing, the character exposition is severely lacking all throughout the trilogy, never mind the myopic decision to separate the prologue from the core game.

The paradox and time traveling concepts were implemented to enhance exploration in XIII-2 and also allow players to replay any moment within the game without having to default to earlier saves or starting a new game. In theory, it's a brilliant concept, but it fails when put into practice because the storyline falls short. Noel is injected as the new central focus to return as a more "traditional" main character, but he's ultimately a third wheel trying to fit into a puzzle where he ultimately doesn't belong. We spend more time focusing on his story than we do trying to fill in the blanks from XIII. Indeed, all of the omitted character exposition from XIII is completely discarded and forgotten in favor of pressing forward with the complete exposition of three new characters and their relationships: Noel, Yuel, and Caius. XIII-2 does away with the linearity of XIII, it's true, but at a terrible price: Lightning and all of her friends essentially get dragged through the mud. Either their personalities are completely rebuilt, their characters are sacrificed as plot devices, or they're swept under the rug altogether without any real development. XIII-2 is more Noel's game than it is Lightning's or Serah's. Indeed, I've always been baffled to as why Light is on the cover of XIII-2. She barely has a role in that game, and certainly does nothing to merit the front cover.

I'm not entirely sure why they opted out of free-roam mechanics for XIII-2, but if I had to guess, I would bet on time-cost efficiency. It's easier to have you time travel between a small set of locations rather than to map out a huge, elaborate world on par with FFXII. SE wanted to churn XIII-2 quickly and they didn't have the luxury of time or money to spend on making a main-title-like game out of a sequel. I want to be frank with you: FF sequels don't usually live up to the potential of the original games. That's not to say they aren't fun and don't have their own merits, but they usually lack the caliber of the originals because they're either hastily thrown together, are created to appeal as fan service, or are a product of a divided staff. There's also fan expectations that are difficult to meet. Some fans look for more of the original, but the dev team wants to take a new direction, thus leaving the fans disappointed. You can't blame the dev team for wanting to change gears, but you'll always have those who stick to the saying of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

As for the paradoxes, your guess is as good as mine. Honestly, my favorite ending was the one where Snow and Serah rode off together. I could have been satisfied with that ending. I feel like Toriyama trolled me lol. Hell, what they did to Snow is beyond him being a "sub par character we only see for a glimpse". Don't even get me started on LR. His personality is completely out of whack. The thing about Snow? He never gives up hope. Sometimes he stumbles and sometimes reality crashes down hard on him, but he's not the kind of guy to give into despair. XIII-2 sets him up for a great fall, I think, since I doubt he'd run all willy-nilly back into the arms of the fal'Cie anymore than Lightning. I would think that if their journey has taught them anything, it's that they can depend on each other in order to shape the world around them moreso than continuing to rely on the fal'Cie. Oh well, lol.

If they were to hypothetically release another FFXIII, I would want it to be a prequel. I want to see Mr. Farron and how his life and death helped shape the Farron sisters. I also want to see Snow's days in the orphanage and how he wound up there, not to mention the upstarts of Team NORA. Then there's Sazh and how he met his wife, and the last moment Dajh spent with his mother. And of course Hope's life with his parents and the type of work his dad did. Underlying all of that, I would want to see 500 years into the past on Gran Pulse to experience first-hand the trials and tribulations facing Fang and Vanille. Hell, start even further back than that: the bustling metropolis on Gran Pulse before it turned to ruins. That's what these "sequels" should have shown; they should have added more substance to what we already have, but instead, the plot ran wild and now I think we're supposed to be in France? Well, I'm just happy Lightning's wearing pants. I suppose that's all I can ask for at this point lol.

 

[Mystical_Gaming]

You were right about those novellas ... I found the audiobook version on youtube. It's like 5 hours of content. I'm really baffled how they thought this was a good idea to NOT release to people who bought the English version. I'm sure after I listen to them I will know more about FFXIII than I ever did.

 

[Mr. Revolution]

If you ask me, 5 hours isn't enough lol. But yes, do listen or read the side stories and novellas. Their translations are spotty, but you'll gain a greater understanding of the FFXIII main cast. FF as a series has seldom resorted to such fractured methods of disseminating information. Usually, a popular FF will see the release of what is known as an "Ultimania", which contains in-depth background information on characters, settings, and concepts. But such supplementation is not required to fully understand and appreciate the games themselves. The fact that SE chose to not only fragment the dissemination of its most crucial information, but also made such information exclusive is beyond sloppy. What is truly baffling is SE's earnest shock and disappointment at the harsh criticism the first XIII received. If you only care to tell half a story and your entire business was made successful by the stories you tell, why on earth would you assume that you would be just as successful without a complete story?

I'm one of those rare people who can forgive long, straight lines masquerading as intuitive gameplay if that linearity is heavily steeped within an engrossing story. I don't play FF for the monsters, swords, or magic; I play FF for the stories, the characters, and the settings. Squaresoft was all about stories. Seeing as how you're new to the franchise, you probably don't know this, but the reason the series is called "Final Fantasy" is because Squaresoft was on the verge of bankruptcy. "Final Fantasy"--as the name suggests--was supposed to be Squaresoft's final fantasy game before going broke. However, it was such a huge success that the company was able to release FFII, then III and so on. With each new title, the stories grew more sophisticated and the characters gained greater depth. I once wrote a thirteen-page essay on the psychoanalysis of FFVIII's main character--that's how deeply complex FF has become over the years. When you play a game once, you only scratch the surface of it. Each FF, in my humble opinion, requires at least three playthroughs in order to understand the characters and the plot. Indeed, I've played almost all the FFs more than three times each, and that's probably why I understand these characters more than most.

But to return to the topic of FFXIII, my ability to psychoanalyze these characters has been dampened by the fact that so much of their histories and the world in which they live is unknown. I can tell you more about the fal'Cie myth than I can about Lightning, and that's just wrong. I'm sorry, but the last time I checked, it was Lightning on the cover of FFXIII, not Bartleby. I shouldn't know more about the antagonist than the protagonist in ANY medium, let alone in a Final Fantasy. Nevermind the fact that we learn more about fal'Cie that aren't in the game than we do about the ones in it. I can tell you more about Etro than I can Titan, for example. Why? Because Titan's just some lame grunt of a fal'Cie and Etro's the equivalent of Santa Claus from Futurama. You don't want the gifts she's dishing out, but you need to know why she's so "generous" all the same. Go read the datalogs if you haven't already. You'll see more about the fal'Cie than about your party. Indeed, your party doesn't seem to matter much in the eyes of SE, which is insane, because during the Squaresoft years, it was all about party dynamic. Any veterans reading this will know about the Shadow-Relm-Strago dynamic, and what an awesome revelation it was to learn the truth. Then there's Cloud's epiphany towards the end of FFVII. His identity is completely explored and no stones were left unturned. Then there's the personal stories of Zidane and Garnet--both revelatory and again completely explained. There's always a twist somewhere, but it never just jumps out without any rhyme or reason. When you go back and replay these games, you find subtle clues that you either missed or dismissed during the initial playthrough. That's what FF is supposed to be about: it's supposed to be a fantastical--yet deeply psychological--tale about people who, despite fighting monsters and god-like tyrants, have intricate and human personal stories. They're admirable people who have overcome such crippling adversity in order to save their worlds. How many people can seriously function after a revelation like Cloud's or Tidus's? How many people can keep going after suffering a loss like Squall's or Ashe's? How many people could really forgive and let go of the past like Lightning?

Final Fantasy characters are well-known, loved, and applauded because of their stories--because of the adversity that they've overcome. They aren't just heroic because they saved the world from tyrants, gods, and total annihilation; they're heroes because they've found the strength to carry on and live their lives despite all the harrowing hardships they've encountered along the way. They're inspirations for anyone who's had similar trials and tribulations, and there are so many FF characters, that it's hard to not find one with a similar story to your own. But how can you know that if SE doesn't tell you the whole story?!

That's my argument in a nutshell: if you don't know the whole story, then you can't fully appreciate anything. People, places, themes, ideas--what are they without context?

 

[Mystical_Gaming]

oh yes I knew the background to Squaresoft and how the first final fantasy was going to be the end for them. While I never played previous FF's (except playing FFX now on PS3) I did understand the background of how FF got so popular.

I too also play mainly for the characters and story. While battle systems are great and even if the gameplay isn't A+ I can overlook it since I am mostly invested in story progression and the characters developing. While I missed a lot of info from FFXIII I still felt satisfied in the end. This whole topic is how FFXIII-2 kinda derailed that and in turn affected FFXIII for me since all the stuff they failed to explain to me in FFXIII now all of the sudden is in FFXIII-2 and I "should have known about it already" lol. This is why when I saw the opening cutscenes for FFXIII-2 the first day I popped the disc in the tray I was so confused ... even after I looked online to see it explained.

Don't worry Lightning I'm just as confused as you were with this story:

 

[Sheechiibii]

Hmm...I won't be able to be very helpful since I didn't undrstand it much myself, and this thread has helped me understand more than I did before. However, I am actually really glad they did what they did with Lightning in XIII-2 (I have yet to play L:R) because I much preferred her character in XIII-2 than in XIII. I also loved XIII-2's story and characters a lot more and just generally loved the game. Had Lightning been the main character in XIII-2 I'm not sure if I would have been able to enjoy it the way I did, but at the same time what little I did see of her in XIII-2 I enjoyed. It makes me nervous about L:R because I really have no idea whether I'll enjoy it or not when I have such mixed feelings about the first two instalments in the series, not to mention I'm confused about certain things in L:R that people online have said never actually get an explanation - like why is Hope a kid again?

 

[Linnaete]

Hope being a kid again does get explained, I assure you that.

Whether you nod your head in appreciation or laugh for a few minutes will depend on you.

 

[Mystical_Gaming]

Hmm...I won't be able to be very helpful since I didn't undrstand it much myself, and this thread has helped me understand more than I did before. However, I am actually really glad they did what they did with Lightning in XIII-2 (I have yet to play L:R) because I much preferred her character in XIII-2 than in XIII. I also loved XIII-2's story and characters a lot more and just generally loved the game. Had Lightning been the main character in XIII-2 I'm not sure if I would have been able to enjoy it the way I did, but at the same time what little I did see of her in XIII-2 I enjoyed. It makes me nervous about L:R because I really have no idea whether I'll enjoy it or not when I have such mixed feelings about the first two instalments in the series, not to mention I'm confused about certain things in L:R that people online have said never actually get an explanation - like why is Hope a kid again?

I will always like Lightning in FFXIII way more. She was fighting with a purpose, wasn't about to let some 'gods' control her fate, and defied them to the very end. She felt more real to me. As I explained in my first post I felt rather mad about what Etro did to her. In FFXIII-2 we see her basically become a servant to Etro ... not the the Lighting I remember in the first game who would never set aside all her morals and beliefs to be trapped in Valhalla leaving her beloved ones behind. Etro sucked her into a hole and I'm pretty sure Claire didn't want this. I'm sure she rather would have been with Snow and Serah living a simple life. She had already abandoned her role as a guardian corp so I think her fighting days were over at the end of FFXIII. Of course that is just my feelings of the character. I'm glad you liked her more in FFXIII-2 than I did, I really wasn't feeling it. It wasn't for me that she was not a main character as much of what they did to her character in FFXIII-2. She went from a normal human to a guardian of a cause (where she was manipulated to 'love' Etro) that I don't think the real Claire Farron would have been too keen in agreeing with.

As far as Lightning Returns go you'll either see Lightning as a savior puppet of a new god (bhunivelze) or a totally different person than she was in the first and second game. For me FFXIII-2 already did the confusing damage to Lighting as a character so I wasn't so upset as her role as saviour in the 3rd game. My hope was by the end she would be free of it all ... but you'll have to play the game and find your own conclusions about it, I won't talk about it here. Personally I loved every moment of the game (even with it flaws) and while the Fabula Nova Crystallis story is like a cracked mirror it was more about going through the jounrey than nitpicking everything that didn't make sense apart for me. I made this thread just to have some good ole' discussion about FFXIII in general. I hope you play the game and try it for yourself. I found the customization and battle system really fun. There are some interesting plot twists along the way too. For me it was the final cutscenes. After investing so much into FFXIII and FFXIII-2 the end of Lightning Returns was at least an end that felt complete to me. If you really like Lighting I feel the last game is one final hurrah and worth the time to play.

I'm sure Mr. Revolution can explain how I feel about Lighting and what she was in FFXIII-2 better than I can myself. He's got more knowledge on the backstory and structure of FFXIII trilogy than I do.

 

[Sheechiibii]

I will always like Lightning in FFXIII way more. She was fighting with a purpose, wasn't about to let some 'gods' control her fate, and defied them to the very end. She felt more real to me. As I explained in my first post I felt rather mad about what Etro did to her. In FFXIII-2 we see her basically become a servant to Etro ... not the the Lighting I remember in the first game who would never set aside all her morals and beliefs to be trapped in Valhalla leaving her beloved ones behind. Etro sucked her into a hole and I'm pretty sure Claire didn't want this. I'm sure she rather would have been with Snow and Serah living a simple life. She had already abandoned her role as a guardian corp so I think her fighting days were over at the end of FFXIII. Of course that is just my feelings of the character. I'm glad you liked her more in FFXIII-2 than I did, I really wasn't feeling it. It wasn't for me that she was not a main character as much of what they did to her character in FFXIII-2. She went from a normal human to a guardian of a cause (where she was manipulated to 'love' Etro) that I don't think the real Claire Farron would have been too keen in agreeing with.

As far as Lightning Returns go you'll either see Lightning as a savior puppet of a new god (bhunivelze) or a totally different person than she was in the first and second game. For me FFXIII-2 already did the confusing damage to Lighting as a character so I wasn't so upset as her role as saviour in the 3rd game. My hope was by the end she would be free of it all ... but you'll have to play the game and find your own conclusions about it, I won't talk about it here. Personally I loved every moment of the game (even with it flaws) and while the Fabula Nova Crystallis story is like a cracked mirror it was more about going through the jounrey than nitpicking everything that didn't make sense apart for me. I made this thread just to have some good ole' discussion about FFXIII in general. I hope you play the game and try it for yourself. I found the customization and battle system really fun. There are some interesting plot twists along the way too. For me it was the final cutscenes. After investing so much into FFXIII and FFXIII-2 the end of Lightning Returns was at least an end that felt complete to me. If you really like Lighting I feel the last game is one final hurrah and worth the time to play.

I'm sure Mr. Revolution can explain how I feel about Lighting and what she was in FFXIII-2 better than I can myself. He's got more knowledge on the backstory and structure of FFXIII trilogy than I do.

I totally agree that she wouldn't have chosen to do what she was doing in XIII-2 if she'd had a choice, but I don't know, it was more the way she acted that I preferred. In the first game I honestly thought she was pretty abusive and just someone I would not want to have anything to do with in real life. But in XIII-2 I liked her more, maybe because she wasn't around other characters much so I couldn't see her being horrible to others all the time like in XIII. I think I'll definitely give L:R a shot though, mostly because I fell so in love with Serah, Noel and Hope in XIII-2 and really want to see the end of their stories.

 

[Mystical_Gaming]

I totally agree that she wouldn't have chosen to do what she was doing in XIII-2 if she'd had a choice, but I don't know, it was more the way she acted that I preferred. In the first game I honestly thought she was pretty abusive and just someone I would not want to have anything to do with in real life. But in XIII-2 I liked her more, maybe because she wasn't around other characters much so I couldn't see her being horrible to others all the time like in XIII. I think I'll definitely give L:R a shot though, mostly because I fell so in love with Serah, Noel and Hope in XIII-2 and really want to see the end of their stories.

Yeah the mini stories Mr. Revolution told me about explains why she acted the way she was in the first game. Even without that knowledge though I could tell she was hurting in some way and didn't like to be close to others. She wanted to distance herself from everyone due to some past trauma. She felt more real to me this way always being the loner and not wanting to help out. Strong silent type I guess you can say. She set out to get Serah back and in turn had a bunch of others get into the mix. I think it just annoyed her that Snow was so close to her as well. I found this part more interesting because there are people like that in real life. Whereas in FFXIII-2 she is basically like "oh yes Etro, divine Goddess! I will protect you from chaos and Caius!"

One thing I left out was Lightning was much more the reluctant hero in the first game too. She wasn't wanting to do any of the things she had to except for the simple fact her sister was gone and she'd fight through hell to get her back. Didn't care who was in the way or what was in the way. Sure that probably made her a little mean but at least she had determination and as the game goes on you see her change. I'd rather have a pushy and sometimes mean character with a goal than a character who acts nice but they aren't acting nice because of their own feelings but rather someone controlling and manipulating them. In a way Etro was abusing Lightning making her cry and making her a guardian. Etro played on Claire's weak side and used that against her.

But yeah, not trying to change your thoughts about her, just explaining why I liked her more in the first one. Serah's story was interesting to follow in FFXIII-2 as well so Lightning Returns is a good way to see that story conclude as well.

 

[Mr. Revolution]

In the first game I honestly thought she was pretty abusive and just someone I would not want to have anything to do with in real life.

I think it's time for me to post Lightning's complete biography...

First, let me start off by saying there are two types of people in this world: the people that break in the face of hardship and the people that soldier on despite their pains. Lightning falls into the second category, and you'll understand why after reading her story.

Our story begins with the birth of Claire Farron. Her parents' names and occupations are unknown, but we know that they loved their daughter dearly. They spoiled her rotten and filled her childhood with laughter, joy, and inspiration. Lightning felt the closest to her father. She went everywhere with him and held him in great esteem. When Lightning was three years old, her little sister Serah was born. Serah, too, was spoiled and loved. Mr. Farron spent a great deal of time with his children. He wasn't the type of man to be absorbed by his work. His family never took a back seat to anything. While we don't know specifically what type of occupation he held, we can deduce that he spent a great amount of time exploring the ruins left by the war between Cocoon and Gran Pulse. Indeed, he took his daughters with him whenever he adventured into the ruins. This is most likely why Serah grows up so fascinated by the ruins and eventually gets the brand while exploring them.

When Claire is 12 years old, a dark day dawns upon the Farron household. Mr. Farron was a foolhardy man. He had a great heart, but took equally great risks. While we don't know the exact circumstances surrounding the incident that would change Claire's life forever, we can infer that Mr. Farron heroically gave his life in exchange for the safety of another person or persons. When her father died, Claire went through several emotional stages. Whatever grief she felt was masked first by betrayal then by rage. She felt betrayed by her father--abandoned by him. She loved her father so much that the idea of his sacrifice appeared to her as a selfish choice. We can infer based on her behavior that she contemplated thoughts such as "he shouldn't have died for these people" or "why did he do something so reckless and stupid?" After his death, Claire removed her father from his infallible pedestal, branding him a moron, a fool, an idiot. Mr. Farron, in the eyes of his eldest daughter, became a foolhardy, reckless failure. His betrayal as her hero, father, and friend led to Claire's anger. She hated him for leaving. She was enraged that her father would do such a selfish thing.

With such powerful, negative feelings swirling around her broken heart, Claire began to harden herself. However, she wouldn't ultimately become "Lightning" until a second tragedy occurred. When Lightning turned 15, her mother was hospitalized with a terminal illness. One day, when the Farron sisters were visiting their mother in the hospital, Mrs. Farron sent Serah out to purchase some fruit. Alone with Claire, Mrs. Farron told her eldest daughter that she was "no longer our spoiled little girl". Claire had to grow up now. She had to grow up to take care of her little sister. Not long after Mrs. Farron had this talk with Claire, she passed away leaving the Farron sisters to fend for themselves. With no extended family to take them in and support them, Claire had to take on the role of parent and provider. The final hardening began, and Claire knew that she could no longer be at the mercy of her inner turmoil. She took the name "Lightning" to signal her departure from her childhood.

Lightning dropped out of school and joined the military. Although we don't know all the reasons for this decision--i.e. whether she had connections, it offered good benefits, it was the only place that would hire a minor, etc.--we can infer that one of the most compelling reasons why she joined the Guardian Corps was so that she could make Bodhum safe. She perhaps reasoned that by keeping Bodhum safe, she could in turn make sure that her sister was safe. In addition, since her father died in a reckless way, we can infer that she's going against his reckless behavior by submitting herself to an organization that specializes in strength, combat, and saving lives. And so, Lightning was hardened both in mind and body. She buried her grief and all but forgot about it for five years.

Five years pass. Lightning is 20, and her relationship with her sister is in shambles. Whereas the two sisters used to be very close, there was now a serious problem with Lightning's ability to communicate with Serah. Indeed, Lightning had become a strict guardian and kept a timely schedule within their household, but she seldom ever left any time for sisterly bonding. They both realized this divide, and Lightning felt horrible about it. She lamented the fading bond she had with her sister, and two weeks before her 21st birthday, Lightning got a great idea. She was off duty in the city one day when she passed a travel agency. There was a great travel deal posted in the window, and Lightning took it. She would spend her birthday with her sister on vacation, she thought. After telling Amodar about her plans, she earned her leave. Lightning decided to keep the whole affair a secret. She would surprise her sister. It would be the best birthday ever.

It was around this time that during one of Lightning's routine patrols along the coastline saw something peculiar happen. While Lightning was beating down some monsters, an airbike swooped in and stole the show. It was Team NORA led by Snow. This is the first time Lightning and Snow meet, and the moment Snow touched ground to beat up the monsters, something inside of Lightning just snapped. All the dormant, repressed memories she had of her father raced to the surface. All at once, she felt the grief, sorrow, betrayal, and anger that she had locked away all those years ago. For you see, Snow was the spitting image of Mr. Farron. He was reckless and foolhardy with an air of bravado--all the traits Lightning came to despise.

It's important to note that at this juncture, Lightning does not know about the relationship between Snow and Serah, so she does not hate Snow initially because of his romantic involvement with her sister. She hates him right now because he's just like her father: someone who charges into danger recklessly and may wind up getting killed.

When Lightning's birthday finally arrives, Serah drops two big bombs. The brand aside, Lightning learns about Serah's engagement to the moron. She further despises Snow now for two reasons: the first is the one people always assume is the main driving force behind the Lightning & Snow friction: Snow is threatening to take away Lightning's only family and will thus break up the Farron family dynamic. This is a very minor reason why Lightning is so hostile towards Snow. I can't emphasize this enough: she doesn't care so much about him marrying her sister and breaking up the dynamic. The second, and most accurate, reason why Lightning demonstrates such hostility towards Snow is because if he were to marry Serah, Lightning fears that his reckless lifestyle will mirror Mr. Farron's fate. Lightning doesn't want to see Serah's marriage end in tears. Knowing firsthand what happens to a family with a foolhardy patriarch, the last thing Lightning wants is to repeat history.

So now, let's talk about this "abuse" that Lightning demonstrates within XIII. Lightning punches Snow repeatedly and is verbally abusive towards him. On the one hand, she blames him for Serah's fate. On the other hand, her punches are more geared towards Mr. Farron's ghost than they are at Snow. Lightning in XIII is at an emotional crossroads. All her repressed anguish has resurface and mixed with the panic and desperation she feels for securing her sister's safety. In other words, Lightning's heart at this point is a bubbling cauldron of negative emotions. She's lashing out at everything: things both past and present in an effort to cleanse her system and regain her bearings. This is Lightning's core trial throughout the game. Everyone in XIII has their cross to bear; Lightning's is to forgive the past and embrace the present. Throughout the journey, Lightning slowly starts to make peace with her father. Her interactions with Snow, although at first quite violent, slowly pan out and give way to reason. She grows to once again admire the type of person her father was. His heart was always in the right place. By the end of XIII, Lightning could think of no one better to marry her sister than Snow. He wasn't hyperbolic or idiotic or unreliable; he was earnest, virtuous, and loyal. Lightning smiles in the end; she smiles at her sister, at Snow--at their future. She was finally ready to accept the name "Sis" and finally ready to become Claire again.

Now this is where Mystic and I both become rather peeved. All these revelations? They mean virtually nothing in the sequels to XIII. They're never referenced and Lightning's character changes so drastically that she may as well have never learned these lessons at all.

Remember at the beginning I said there were two types of people. Lightning was a fighter. She lived with her sorrow and pushed through it, eventually overcoming it. To do this, she challenged society, the government, and even the gods. To save her only family, she was willing to topple an entire way of life. Lightning believed in self-determination. Her fate was in her hands. She was free to be whoever and whatever she damn well pleased to be. She wasn't a static character. Lightning was a cop with good instincts and good sense. She questioned everything, from authority to reality. What really screws her character is when in XIII-2, Lightning blindly follows the orders of some self-appointed "goddess" despite the fact that this goddess has caused untold chaos and destruction. The Lightning you see in the sequels isn't the same Lightning from XIII. Same face, same name, same voice--different spirit. The real Lightning would spend the entire plot of XIII-2 questioning Etro and looking for clues that would give credence to whatever "omniscient" vision the goddess bestowed upon her. Lightning isn't one to blindly follow orders. She's not a goddess; she's a cop. She doesn't need to be "more sophisticated" as Toriyama has labeled her; she's got heart and wits. If someone tells her to jump, she doesn't ask "how high?" she says "go jump yourself" and walks away. Lightning chooses her own path in life. She chose to fight against her fate; she chose to believe in the impossible--believe that Serah would be okay. The Lightning Farron I have outlined here for you would never don a Valkyrie suit of armor and serve the very species she fought tooth and nail against. A true cop would be skeptical. You don't fight an all-out war of life and death against the fal'Cie and their little games only to again subjugate yourself as their pawn.

 

[Sheechiibii]

I think it's time for me to post Lightning's complete biography...

First, let me start off by saying there are two types of people in this world: the people that break in the face of hardship and the people that soldier on despite their pains. Lightning falls into the second category, and you'll understand why after reading her story.

Our story begins with the birth of Claire Farron. Her parents' names and occupations are unknown, but we know that they loved their daughter dearly. They spoiled her rotten and filled her childhood with laughter, joy, and inspiration. Lightning felt the closest to her father. She went everywhere with him and held him in great esteem. When Lightning was three years old, her little sister Serah was born. Serah, too, was spoiled and loved. Mr. Farron spent a great deal of time with his children. He wasn't the type of man to be absorbed by his work. His family never took a back seat to anything. While we don't know specifically what type of occupation he held, we can deduce that he spent a great amount of time exploring the ruins left by the war between Cocoon and Gran Pulse. Indeed, he took his daughters with him whenever he adventured into the ruins. This is most likely why Serah grows up so fascinated by the ruins and eventually gets the brand while exploring them.

When Claire is 12 years old, a dark day dawns upon the Farron household. Mr. Farron was a foolhardy man. He had a great heart, but took equally great risks. While we don't know the exact circumstances surrounding the incident that would change Claire's life forever, we can infer that Mr. Farron heroically gave his life in exchange for the safety of another person or persons. When her father died, Claire went through several emotional stages. Whatever grief she felt was masked first by betrayal then by rage. She felt betrayed by her father--abandoned by him. She loved her father so much that the idea of his sacrifice appeared to her as a selfish choice. We can infer based on her behavior that she contemplated thoughts such as "he shouldn't have died for these people" or "why did he do something so reckless and stupid?" After his death, Claire removed her father from his infallible pedestal, branding him a moron, a fool, an idiot. Mr. Farron, in the eyes of his eldest daughter, became a foolhardy, reckless failure. His betrayal as her hero, father, and friend led to Claire's anger. She hated him for leaving. She was enraged that her father would do such a selfish thing.

With such powerful, negative feelings swirling around her broken heart, Claire began to harden herself. However, she wouldn't ultimately become "Lightning" until a second tragedy occurred. When Lightning turned 15, her mother was hospitalized with a terminal illness. One day, when the Farron sisters were visiting their mother in the hospital, Mrs. Farron sent Serah out to purchase some fruit. Alone with Claire, Mrs. Farron told her eldest daughter that she was "no longer our spoiled little girl". Claire had to grow up now. She had to grow up to take care of her little sister. Not long after Mrs. Farron had this talk with Claire, she passed away leaving the Farron sisters to fend for themselves. With no extended family to take them in and support them, Claire had to take on the role of parent and provider. The final hardening began, and Claire knew that she could no longer be at the mercy of her inner turmoil. She took the name "Lightning" to signal her departure from her childhood.

Lightning dropped out of school and joined the military. Although we don't know all the reasons for this decision--i.e. whether she had connections, it offered good benefits, it was the only place that would hire a minor, etc.--we can infer that one of the most compelling reasons why she joined the Guardian Corps was so that she could make Bodhum safe. She perhaps reasoned that by keeping Bodhum safe, she could in turn make sure that her sister was safe. In addition, since her father died in a reckless way, we can infer that she's going against his reckless behavior by submitting herself to an organization that specializes in strength, combat, and saving lives. And so, Lightning was hardened both in mind and body. She buried her grief and all but forgot about it for five years.

Five years pass. Lightning is 20, and her relationship with her sister is in shambles. Whereas the two sisters used to be very close, there was now a serious problem with Lightning's ability to communicate with Serah. Indeed, Lightning had become a strict guardian and kept a timely schedule within their household, but she seldom ever left any time for sisterly bonding. They both realized this divide, and Lightning felt horrible about it. She lamented the fading bond she had with her sister, and two weeks before her 21st birthday, Lightning got a great idea. She was off duty in the city one day when she passed a travel agency. There was a great travel deal posted in the window, and Lightning took it. She would spend her birthday with her sister on vacation, she thought. After telling Amodar about her plans, she earned her leave. Lightning decided to keep the whole affair a secret. She would surprise her sister. It would be the best birthday ever.

It was around this time that during one of Lightning's routine patrols along the coastline saw something peculiar happen. While Lightning was beating down some monsters, an airbike swooped in and stole the show. It was Team NORA led by Snow. This is the first time Lightning and Snow meet, and the moment Snow touched ground to beat up the monsters, something inside of Lightning just snapped. All the dormant, repressed memories she had of her father raced to the surface. All at once, she felt the grief, sorrow, betrayal, and anger that she had locked away all those years ago. For you see, Snow was the spitting image of Mr. Farron. He was reckless and foolhardy with an air of bravado--all the traits Lightning came to despise.

It's important to note that at this juncture, Lightning does not know about the relationship between Snow and Serah, so she does not hate Snow initially because of his romantic involvement with her sister. She hates him right now because he's just like her father: someone who charges into danger recklessly and may wind up getting killed.

When Lightning's birthday finally arrives, Serah drops two big bombs. The brand aside, Lightning learns about Serah's engagement to the moron. She further despises Snow now for two reasons: the first is the one people always assume is the main driving force behind the Lightning & Snow friction: Snow is threatening to take away Lightning's only family and will thus break up the Farron family dynamic. This is a very minor reason why Lightning is so hostile towards Snow. I can't emphasize this enough: she doesn't care so much about him marrying her sister and breaking up the dynamic. The second, and most accurate, reason why Lightning demonstrates such hostility towards Snow is because if he were to marry Serah, Lightning fears that his reckless lifestyle will mirror Mr. Farron's fate. Lightning doesn't want to see Serah's marriage end in tears. Knowing firsthand what happens to a family with a foolhardy patriarch, the last thing Lightning wants is to repeat history.

So now, let's talk about this "abuse" that Lightning demonstrates within XIII. Lightning punches Snow repeatedly and is verbally abusive towards him. On the one hand, she blames him for Serah's fate. On the other hand, her punches are more geared towards Mr. Farron's ghost than they are at Snow. Lightning in XIII is at an emotional crossroads. All her repressed anguish has resurface and mixed with the panic and desperation she feels for securing her sister's safety. In other words, Lightning's heart at this point is a bubbling cauldron of negative emotions. She's lashing out at everything: things both past and present in an effort to cleanse her system and regain her bearings. This is Lightning's core trial throughout the game. Everyone in XIII has their cross to bear; Lightning's is to forgive the past and embrace the present. Throughout the journey, Lightning slowly starts to make peace with her father. Her interactions with Snow, although at first quite violent, slowly pan out and give way to reason. She grows to once again admire the type of person her father was. His heart was always in the right place. By the end of XIII, Lightning could think of no one better to marry her sister than Snow. He wasn't hyperbolic or idiotic or unreliable; he was earnest, virtuous, and loyal. Lightning smiles in the end; she smiles at her sister, at Snow--at their future. She was finally ready to accept the name "Sis" and finally ready to become Claire again.

Now this is where Mystic and I both become rather peeved. All these revelations? They mean virtually nothing in the sequels to XIII. They're never referenced and Lightning's character changes so drastically that she may as well have never learned these lessons at all.

Remember at the beginning I said there were two types of people. Lightning was a fighter. She lived with her sorrow and pushed through it, eventually overcoming it. To do this, she challenged society, the government, and even the gods. To save her only family, she was willing to topple an entire way of life. Lightning believed in self-determination. Her fate was in her hands. She was free to be whoever and whatever she damn well pleased to be. She wasn't a static character. Lightning was a cop with good instincts and good sense. She questioned everything, from authority to reality. What really screws her character is when in XIII-2, Lightning blindly follows the orders of some self-appointed "goddess" despite the fact that this goddess has caused untold chaos and destruction. The Lightning you see in the sequels isn't the same Lightning from XIII. Same face, same name, same voice--different spirit. The real Lightning would spend the entire plot of XIII-2 questioning Etro and looking for clues that would give credence to whatever "omniscient" vision the goddess bestowed upon her. Lightning isn't one to blindly follow orders. She's not a goddess; she's a cop. She doesn't need to be "more sophisticated" as Toriyama has labeled her; she's got heart and wits. If someone tells her to jump, she doesn't ask "how high?" she says "go jump yourself" and walks away. Lightning chooses her own path in life. She chose to fight against her fate; she chose to believe in the impossible--believe that Serah would be okay. The Lightning Farron I have outlined here for you would never don a Valkyrie suit of armor and serve the very species she fought tooth and nail against. A true cop would be skeptical. You don't fight an all-out war of life and death against the fal'Cie and their little games only to again subjugate yourself as their pawn.

Thank you for sharing all that you know about her background. I knew a little about it before, like the connection between her hatred for Snow and her father's death. While the extra information certainly makes me see her as a more fleshed out character, and I undrstand why she behaved the way she did, that does not make me like her any more. There are many 'reasons' why some people are abusive and treat people like crap. Knowing and understanding why a person is the way they are does not excuse their bad behaviours. While I appreciate her character growth - though I feel it really is missing from the actual game, we see very little of her growth while playing through the storyline especially when we get to see virtually none of her back story at all - I still do not find her likeable. To me there is no excuse to be physically violent to another person unless it is in self defence (or in very severe cases where this person is abusive themselves), there is no reason that is good enough, and Lightning's reason especially is not good enough for me to feel the slightest bit of leniency towards her. Snow himself had done nothing to her whatsoever. I understand why she did it, but I don't find her actions anywhere near justifiable even with her 'reasons'. I didn't like Snow either, but he did not deserve to be treated the way Lightning treated him.

Now in the second game, I could see a lot more love in her for her sister, even though we didn't see her so much, and I felt like seeing how much Serah cared for her made me more sympathetic to who Lightning was now as well. I know the way her story has been told and changed throughout the three games has not been consistent and has not been given justice, but I can't really mourn her character from XIII because I disliked her so very much.

@Mystical_Gaming
In the second game I got the impression that she wasn't fighting because she cared about Etro staying alive, but because she had no other alternative than to fight, and she knew Serah was in trouble and she knew if she didn't fight people would die. I feel like as a character Lightning is written well (in the first game at least when you know her back story) she just isn't a character I could bring myself to like in any way, because I could not get past her behaviour towards others. I mean, I would probably have liked her character in the first game a lot more if she hadn't been abusive, I just have no tolerance for that, and I feel like there is a double standard about women being violent when it should really be unnaceptable too. I mean, if Snow and Lightning switched places would people justify him treating her the way she treated him as 'but he had reasons, because she reminded him of his dead mother who he felt had abandoned him in childhood and she was going to marry his brother and split up the only family he had left' would that be an acceptable reason for Snow to be not only emotionally abusive but physically abusive to Lightning the way she was to him?

 

[Mr. Revolution]

Thank you for sharing all that you know about her background. I knew a little about it before, like the connection between her hatred for Snow and her father's death. While the extra information certainly makes me see her as a more fleshed out character, and I undrstand why she behaved the way she did, that does not make me like her any more. There are many 'reasons' why some people are abusive and treat people like crap. Knowing and understanding why a person is the way they are does not excuse their bad behaviours. While I appreciate her character growth - though I feel it really is missing from the actual game, we see very little of her growth while playing through the storyline especially when we get to see virtually none of her back story at all - I still do not find her likeable. To me there is no excuse to be physically violent to another person unless it is in self defence (or in very severe cases where this person is abusive themselves), there is no reason that is good enough, and Lightning's reason especially is not good enough for me to feel the slightest bit of leniency towards her. Snow himself had done nothing to her whatsoever. I understand why she did it, but I don't find her actions anywhere near justifiable even with her 'reasons'. I didn't like Snow either, but he did not deserve to be treated the way Lightning treated him.

Now in the second game, I could see a lot more love in her for her sister, even though we didn't see her so much, and I felt like seeing how much Serah cared for her made me more sympathetic to who Lightning was now as well. I know the way her story has been told and changed throughout the three games has not been consistent and has not been given justice, but I can't really mourn her character from XIII because I disliked her so very much.

You definitely have a right to your views and feelings. Not everyone will like Lightning, and she definitely isn't a person that's easy to get along with. You have to make a real commitment if you want to befriend someone like Lightning because she's not about to just let you cozy up to her and start having a grand old time. She's strict, stern, and rough around the edges. If you're not already related to her, about to be related her, or stuck on a life-or-death mission with her, then you'd probably keep your distance from her and that's perfectly understandable. I wrote this synopsis because I think it's important to understand why people become who they are in life. They aren't born abusive, angry, and antisocial. Life molds everyone in different ways, and I would hate for anyone to judge her without knowing her story. It's not a justification, mind you, just an explanation. Humans are the farthest thing from perfect, infallible beings. We all deal with hardship differently. Unfortunately, physical altercations are sometimes a result.

I will say this, however: don't doubt the love Lightning exhibits for her sister in the first game. The only reason Lightning continues the journey at all and doesn't just resign herself to her fate is because she believes wholeheartedly that she can save Serah. That's always been her mission in life: to save and protect her sister. Serah is the only family Lightning has in the world, and she knows that she's nothing without her family. So while you don't have to like Lightning and while you're right in saying that in XIII-2 she's watching over her sister, don't think that her feelings are somehow absent or not thoroughly fleshed out in the first game. That simply isn't true. But at the same time, I can understand why you'd be put off from analyzing Lightning's feelings and behavior due to her sometimes abusive nature.

I've been saying this for years, so you're not telling me anything I don't already know when it comes to this backstory being absent from the game. XIII is just sloppy in its presentation, and the absence of this story--along with everyone else's stories--is the reason why I'm not the biggest fan of the XIII trilogy.

 

[Mystical_Gaming]

Sheechiibii

Yeah I understand what you mean. I don't like physical abuse either. I didn't see Lightning as someone that wanted to really hurt Snow. I think she knew he was a big guy and a punch wouldn't do anything. Not saying it's a good excuse for her to do the things she did but it does give a motive for sure.

It still sucks the entire prologue isn't even in the game. It would really have shown lightning much more and I can't believe they never mentioned her father at all. I don't think Lighting showed much love for Serah in the first game because she was so busy just trying to find her and didn't know her fate either. That would be a lot of stress if the one you love is gone and your body is a time bomb ready to be transformed into a monster if you fail the objective the gods set on you.

While I don't like physical abuse I really don't like being controlled either. Not being in charge of your own critical thinking and decisions is a terrible life to have. Whenever I replay the entire trilogy (and I will) I'm gunna watch Lightning much closely and see how abusive she was. I know she hit snow a few times just due to frustration but I don't remember her hurting everyone she met though. I mean if you think about it Hope really wanted to kill Snow and when he meets Lightning and they break off from the group they both find peace in each other and Hope comes to the realization violence was not the answer. But I digress ... I could talk about FFXIII for hours. After finishing all 3 games the only closure I now have is talking with you fine people and all the holes left over knowing they will never be sealed by the developers because this trilogy is over.

I really do you hope you play Lightning Returns to the end, even if you find it a cringe worthy game (I sincerely hope not lol). Maybe wait till the price drops then have at it. I think you'll find some peace in the ending and how much nicer Lightning has become. If anything FFXIII will show you how she wasn't very kind in the beginning and has changed towards those she began the trilogy with by the very end.

As my signature says "The Battle within begins" I've always felt that battle was the turmoil Lightning had within herself and through the trilogy tries to overcome it all. Let's just hope the next Final Fantasy game that has a female protagonist she is explained better to us all. I'm already looking forward to 5-10 years down the road for an eventual chance Square Enix can cast a new female lead character and portray her better.

 

[Sunowo]

So, first we have to make clear that Etro is needed in order for the world to exist. When Etro dies at the end of FFXIII-2, we see how the world colapses. Etro is "good". It is revealed (in the DLCs if I recall correctly) that it is Etro who gives Eidolons to the characters, who releases Lightning and her friends from the curse of being l'cie. She also saves Fang from staying into Ragnarok form when she attacks Cocoon hundreds of years before FFXIII.

As for your question, it is explained in FFXIII-2 but in a very disorderly, retrospectively and ambiguous way. Imo it is much better explained in "The After fragments", a colection of stories that further explains the whole FFXIII-2 story. It can be found partialy translated on the internet. From what I've seen, FFXIII was meant to end with the destruction of Cocoon, but again Etro intercedes out of mercy. This isn't the way Caius Ballad wants the story to go, and thus he creates a distortion using Chaos, that sucks Lightning into the Unseen World, but Etro actualy tries to prevent this by fightning Chaos, and succeds but greatly weakens. As a result, Lightning ends at the verge of the Unseen World: Valhalla. There, she finds Etro, which is upset with Lightning because of the deaths she and her party provoked during their period as l'Cie. Etro links with Lightning to show her both her grief and her love for mankind, and gifts Lightning with omniscience as someone has already told you, so Lightning can understand mankind's history. After this, she falls on a slumber due to her weakened state, and it is Lightning's choice to protect her while she sleeps, both to ensure time and humanity keep going (remember that once Etro dies, time disappears and also human souls disappear) and because she feels guilty for the deaths she provoked, so it is kind of an atonement (as she stated herself on the DLC).

PS: btw I think Lightning is never the puppet of Gods through the games, and I believe this is perfectly clear at the end of Lightning Returns.

 

[Razberry Knight]

Hmm...I won't be able to be very helpful since I didn't undrstand it much myself, and this thread has helped me understand more than I did before. However, I am actually really glad they did what they did with Lightning in XIII-2 (I have yet to play L:R) because I much preferred her character in XIII-2 than in XIII. I also loved XIII-2's story and characters a lot more and just generally loved the game. Had Lightning been the main character in XIII-2 I'm not sure if I would have been able to enjoy it the way I did, but at the same time what little I did see of her in XIII-2 I enjoyed. It makes me nervous about L:R because I really have no idea whether I'll enjoy it or not when I have such mixed feelings about the first two instalments in the series, not to mention I'm confused about certain things in L:R that people online have said never actually get an explanation - like why is Hope a kid again?

THe kkid was explained...its just not a good reason.